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Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega

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  • Tom
    In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
      In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
    • Michael Mojher
      Tom, Your search has some interesting twists and turns. Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county Humenne and the other in
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
        Tom,
        Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
        Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
        In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
        In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1 location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
        As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.

        From: Tom
        Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega


        In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elaine
        Michael, The situation with family names that you refer to as do occurs in several of my families also. Is the term do a Slovak word, and if so, how is it
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
          Michael,

          The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.

          Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.

          Elaine

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:

          > Tom,
          > Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
          > Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
          > In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
          > In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1 location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
          > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
          >
          > From: Tom
          > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
          >
          > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Potsko
          Michael, I had heard of this type of delineation of large families, and hyphenated surnames, as well. I have a lot of ancestors near Bardejov(Olsavce Porubka
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
            Michael,

            I had heard of this type of delineation of large families, and
            hyphenated surnames, as well. I have a lot of ancestors near
            Bardejov(Olsavce Porubka Kochanovce and Marhan), including a great great
            grandmother Maria Grega, so I looked there first. Where would I find the
            Hankovce/Humenne records in FamilySearch.org? Thanks, Tom

            On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>wrote:

            > Tom,
            > Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
            > Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county
            > Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
            > In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the
            > Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
            > In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1
            > location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
            > As for the �(humenyk)�, since there seems to be a large number of Grega
            > you may have a case of a �do� name as I call it. I found in my village that
            > my family has three �do� names. Each �do� name is given to a branch of the
            > family. What the �do� name is used to tell two people apart that share the
            > exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the
            > �do� name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I
            > found the �do� name used in all sort of records. I found that the �do� name
            > was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it
            > was ever used.
            >
            > From: Tom
            > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
            >
            >
            > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a
            > grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was
            > Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name
            > and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his
            > grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on
            > Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894
            > record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a
            > meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tom Potsko
            Michael, I should have specified Evangelical village where I would search for Hankovce/Humenne in FamilySearch.org. Tom ... [Non-text portions of this message
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
              Michael, I should have specified Evangelical village where I would search
              for Hankovce/Humenne in FamilySearch.org. Tom

              On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Tom Potsko <jaschr71@...> wrote:

              > Michael,
              >
              > I had heard of this type of delineation of large families, and
              > hyphenated surnames, as well. I have a lot of ancestors near
              > Bardejov(Olsavce Porubka Kochanovce and Marhan), including a great great
              > grandmother Maria Grega, so I looked there first. Where would I find the
              > Hankovce/Humenne records in FamilySearch.org? Thanks, Tom
              >
              > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>wrote:
              >
              >> Tom,
              >> Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
              >> Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county
              >> Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
              >> In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the
              >> Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
              >> In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1
              >> location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
              >> As for the �(humenyk)�, since there seems to be a large number of
              >> Grega you may have a case of a �do� name as I call it. I found in my
              >> village that my family has three �do� names. Each �do� name is given to a
              >> branch of the family. What the �do� name is used to tell two people apart
              >> that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual
              >> surname the �do� name for that person would be used. Then there would be no
              >> mix up. I found the �do� name used in all sort of records. I found that the
              >> �do� name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a
              >> relative if it was ever used.
              >>
              >> From: Tom
              >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
              >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
              >>
              >>
              >> In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found
              >> a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was
              >> Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name
              >> and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his
              >> grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on
              >> Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894
              >> record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a
              >> meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
              >>
              >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >>
              >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael Mojher
              Elaine, I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
                Elaine,
                I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.

                The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.

                In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.

                From: Elaine
                Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega


                Michael,

                The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.

                Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.

                Elaine

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:

                > Tom,
                > Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
                > Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
                > In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
                > In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1 location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
                > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                >
                > From: Tom
                > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                >
                > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Elaine
                Thanks for these details, Michael, that s helpful. Elaine Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 17, 2012
                  Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.

                  Elaine

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                  > Elaine,
                  > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                  >
                  > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                  >
                  > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                  >
                  > From: Elaine
                  > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                  >
                  > Michael,
                  >
                  > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                  >
                  > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                  >
                  > Elaine
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Tom,
                  > > Your search has some interesting twists and turns.
                  > > Hankoc is now Hankovce of which there are two. One is in okres/county Humenne and the other in okres/county Bardejov.
                  > > In the Hankovce/Humenne there is a surname Gres, but no Grega. In the Hankovce/Bardejov the surname Grega can be found.
                  > > In the 1995 Slovak Census Grega had 891 listings in 160 locations. #1 location was Presov with 49. Bardejov came in 8th with 22 listings.
                  > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                  > >
                  > > From: Tom
                  > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                  > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                  > >
                  > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ron
                  Elaine, As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 25, 2012
                    Elaine,

                    As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od čoho).

                    In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                    in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                    From another grammar:

                    do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                    eg, zaľúbený do = in love with

                    With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                    Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;

                    In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.

                    For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.

                    Ron

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                    >
                    > Elaine
                    >
                    > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Elaine,
                    > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                    > >
                    > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                    > >
                    > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                    > >
                    > > From: Elaine
                    > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                    > >
                    > > Michael,
                    > >
                    > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                    > >
                    > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                    > >
                    > > Elaine
                    > >
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    > >
                    > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Tom,

                    > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                    > > >
                    > > > From: Tom
                    > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                    > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                    > > >
                    > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                  • Tom Potsko
                    Ron, Thanks, Tom ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 25, 2012
                      Ron,

                      Thanks,

                      Tom

                      On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Ron <amiak27@...> wrote:

                      > Elaine,
                      >
                      > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female
                      > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
                      > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the
                      > genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom
                      > (koho), of what (� oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od � oho).
                      >
                      > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                      > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                      > From another grammar:
                      >
                      > do = preposition, answer � oho, to, for toward, by, within,
                      > eg, za����ben�� do = in love with
                      >
                      > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                      > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                      >
                      > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo,
                      > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that
                      > distinction.
                      >
                      > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of
                      > character encoding to UTF8.
                      >
                      > Ron
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                      > >
                      > > Elaine
                      > >
                      > > Sent from my iPhone
                      > >
                      > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Elaine,
                      > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being ���doe�� , it
                      > is the Slovak word for ���of�� . The Latin had the word ���alias�� , so it
                      > is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records
                      > recorded in Latin.
                      > > >
                      > > > The surname and ���do�� names were so interchangeable no one when
                      > using the ���do�� name would have considered it being different. It was a
                      > substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the
                      > proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a
                      > ���big deal�� that you knew who the proper person was.
                      > > >
                      > > > In my village if you say the use of the ���do�� then you understood
                      > there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The
                      > ���do�� was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                      > > >
                      > > > From: Elaine
                      > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk
                      > Grega
                      > > >
                      > > > Michael,
                      > > >
                      > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in
                      > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how
                      > is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed,
                      > this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records
                      > done in Latin.
                      > > >
                      > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two
                      > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put
                      > the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person
                      > have the names reversed.
                      > > >
                      > > > Elaine
                      > > >
                      > > > Sent from my iPhone
                      > > >
                      > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
                      > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Tom,
                      >
                      > > > > As for the ���(humenyk)�� , since there seems to be a large number
                      > of Grega you may have a case of a ���do�� name as I call it. I found in my
                      > village that my family has three ���do�� names. Each ���do�� name is
                      > given to a branch of the family. What the ���do�� name is used to tell two
                      > people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of
                      > using the usual surname the ���do�� name for that person would be used.
                      > Then there would be no mix up. I found the ���do�� name used in all sort
                      > of records. I found that the ���do�� name was totally an oral tradition.
                      > So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > From: Tom
                      > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                      > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk
                      > Grega
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I
                      > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name
                      > was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last
                      > name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his
                      > grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on
                      > Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894
                      > record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a
                      > meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • t.salony
                      Ron said: For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8. Thanks Ron. Everything in your post came
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 25, 2012
                        Ron said: "For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8."

                        Thanks Ron. Everything in your post came through properly, and when I looked, MY Character Encoding was set to UTF8.

                        However, when I went on to read the next post/reply by Tom Potsko,the following shows:
                        1. In the repetition of your post, each letter c with accent now shows as a black diamond containing a white question mark.
                        2. In the repetition of Michael Mojner's posts, both to Elaine then to Tom, the closing quote mark on each word he has enclosed in quotes, shows as the same black diamond containing a white question mark.

                        I am able to understand the text, even with seeing the incorrect character, but does what I describe possibly indicate what the problem is?

                        ***Apologies for inserting this unrelated post.***

                        TOM

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Elaine,
                        >
                        > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od čoho).
                        >
                        > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                        > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                        > From another grammar:
                        >
                        > do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                        > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                        >
                        > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                        > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                        >
                        > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                        >
                        > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                        >
                        > Ron
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                        > >
                        > > Elaine
                        > >
                        > > Sent from my iPhone
                        > >
                        > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Elaine,
                        > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                        > > >
                        > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                        > > >
                        > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                        > > >
                        > > > From: Elaine
                        > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                        > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                        > > >
                        > > > Michael,
                        > > >
                        > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                        > > >
                        > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                        > > >
                        > > > Elaine
                        > > >
                        > > > Sent from my iPhone
                        > > >
                        > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Tom,
                        >
                        > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > From: Tom
                        > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                        > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                        >
                      • Elaine
                        Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your family s example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from several generations
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 25, 2012
                          Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from several generations ago?

                          Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names. Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has it as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was confused!)

                          In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names (and spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said "=Herczeg." All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name. Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_ name?

                          Elaine

                          PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and I didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:

                          > Elaine,
                          >
                          > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od čoho).
                          >
                          > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                          > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                          > From another grammar:
                          >
                          > do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                          > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                          >
                          > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                          > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                          >
                          > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                          >
                          > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                          >
                          > Ron
                          >
                          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                          > >
                          > > Elaine
                          > >
                          > > Sent from my iPhone
                          > >
                          > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Elaine,
                          > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                          > > >
                          > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                          > > >
                          > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                          > > >
                          > > > From: Elaine
                          > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                          > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                          > > >
                          > > > Michael,
                          > > >
                          > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                          > > >
                          > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                          > > >
                          > > > Elaine
                          > > >
                          > > > Sent from my iPhone
                          > > >
                          > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > Tom,
                          >
                          > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > From: Tom
                          > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                          > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • htcstech
                          Herczeg means Duke or Prince. You don t say whether you are going forward or back in time, but possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                            Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
                            You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but possibly
                            Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military equivalent to a Duke.
                            If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious' and
                            'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?

                            Peter M


                            On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
                            > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from several
                            > generations ago?
                            >
                            > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names. Your
                            > relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been that in some
                            > cases, the church records seem to use the names interchangeably. In other
                            > words, using your example, one record has it as Paul Vallo, and the next
                            > recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was confused!)
                            >
                            > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
                            > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name simply
                            > disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names (and spellings)
                            > on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of the record of a
                            > Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said "=Herczeg." All the records
                            > prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name. Can you think of
                            > reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_ name?
                            >
                            > Elaine
                            >
                            > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and I
                            > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
                            >
                            > Sent from my iPhone
                            >
                            >
                            > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Elaine,
                            > >
                            > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female
                            > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
                            > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the
                            > genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom
                            > (koho), of what (� oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od � oho).
                            > >
                            > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                            > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                            > > From another grammar:
                            > >
                            > > do = preposition, answer � oho, to, for toward, by, within,
                            > > eg, za����ben�� do = in love with
                            > >
                            > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                            > > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                            > >
                            > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo,
                            > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that
                            > distinction.
                            > >
                            > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view
                            > of character encoding to UTF8.
                            > >
                            > > Ron
                            > >
                            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                            > > >
                            > > > Elaine
                            > > >
                            > > > Sent from my iPhone
                            > > >
                            > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > Elaine,
                            > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being ���doe�� , it
                            > is the Slovak word for ���of�� . The Latin had the word ���alias�� , so it
                            > is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records
                            > recorded in Latin.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The surname and ���do�� names were so interchangeable no one when
                            > using the ���do�� name would have considered it being different. It was a
                            > substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the
                            > proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a
                            > ���big deal�� that you knew who the proper person was.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In my village if you say the use of the ���do�� then you understood
                            > there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The
                            > ���do�� was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > From: Elaine
                            > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                            > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk
                            > Grega
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Michael,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in
                            > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how
                            > is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed,
                            > this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records
                            > done in Latin.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two
                            > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put
                            > the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person
                            > have the names reversed.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Elaine
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
                            > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Tom,
                            > >
                            > > > > > As for the ���(humenyk)�� , since there seems to be a large number
                            > of Grega you may have a case of a ���do�� name as I call it. I found in my
                            > village that my family has three ���do�� names. Each ���do�� name is given
                            > to a branch of the family. What the ���do�� name is used to tell two people
                            > apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the
                            > usual surname the ���do�� name for that person would be used. Then there
                            > would be no mix up. I found the ���do�� name used in all sort of records. I
                            > found that the ���do�� name was totally an oral tradition. So you would
                            > have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > From: Tom
                            > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                            > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk
                            > Grega
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I
                            > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name
                            > was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last
                            > name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his
                            > grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on
                            > Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894
                            > record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a
                            > meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ladislav Rosival
                            It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the highest noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary. Also this
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                              It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the highest
                              noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary. Also
                              this hercegs were mostly immigrants from the Austrian part of empire
                              (including Bohemia), Germany or Italy (Lobkovic, Windischgraetz, Odescalchi,
                              ...) there are very few real hungarian dukes AFAIK only Esterhazy, Pálffy
                              and Batthyany.

                              On the other hand Herceg is a quite common surname in Slovakia:

                              Priezvisko HERCEG sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 636×, celkový počet
                              lokalít: 166, najčastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
                              PATA, okr. GALANTA - 63×;
                              TRNAVA, okr. TRNAVA - 32×;
                              BUKOVÁ, okr. TRNAVA - 22×;
                              PETRŽALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 18×;
                              MALÁ VIESKA (obec DRUŽSTEVNÁ PRI HORNÁDE), okr. KOŠICE-VIDIEK (od r. 1996
                              KOŠICE - OKOLIE) - 15×;
                              KOMJATICE, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 12×;
                              PIEŠŤANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIEŠŤANY) - 10×;
                              RADAVA, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 10×;
                              VEĽKÉ KOSTOĽANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIEŠŤANY) - 10×;
                              DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 10×;

                              Herczeg gives 91 results.

                              Ladislav

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                              > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                              > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:32 AM
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
                              > Janos humenyk Grega
                              >
                              > Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
                              > You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but
                              > possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
                              > equivalent to a Duke.
                              > If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious'
                              > and 'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?
                              >
                              > Peter M
                              >
                              >
                              > On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
                              > > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from
                              > > several generations ago?
                              > >
                              > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names.
                              > > Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been
                              > > that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
                              > > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has
                              > it
                              > > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
                              > > confused!)
                              > >
                              > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
                              > > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
                              > > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names
                              > (and
                              > > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
                              > > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said
                              > "=Herczeg."
                              > > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
                              > > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_
                              > name?
                              > >
                              > > Elaine
                              > >
                              > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and
                              > I
                              > > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
                              > >
                              > > Sent from my iPhone
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Elaine,
                              > > >
                              > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
                              > > > female
                              > > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
                              > > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs
                              > > the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions:
                              > of
                              > > whom (koho), of what (Ä oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od
                              > Ä oho).
                              > > >
                              > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                              > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                              > > > From another grammar:
                              > > >
                              > > > do = preposition, answer Ä oho, to, for toward, by, within, eg,
                              > > > zaĞúbený do = in love with
                              > > >
                              > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as Jones
                              > > > do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                              > > >
                              > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many
                              > > > Vallo,
                              > > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover
                              > > that distinction.
                              > > >
                              > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your
                              > > > view
                              > > of character encoding to UTF8.
                              > > >
                              > > > Ron
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Elaine
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > Elaine,
                              > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â?oedoeâ?
                              > > > > > , it
                              > > is the Slovak word for â?oeofâ? . The Latin had the word â?oealiasâ? ,
                              > > so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church
                              > > records recorded in Latin.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The surname and â?oedoâ? names were so interchangeable no one
                              > > > > > when
                              > > using the â?oedoâ? name would have considered it being different. It
                              > > was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when
                              > > to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it
                              > > would be a â?oebig dealâ? that you knew who the proper person was.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â?oedoâ? then you
                              > > > > > understood
                              > > there was another person living there that had the same exact name.
                              > > The â?oedoâ? was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > From: Elaine
                              > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                              > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
                              > > > > > humenyk
                              > > Grega
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Michael,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
                              > occurs
                              > > > > > in
                              > > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if
                              > > so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I
                              > have
                              > > reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at
                              > > least in records done in Latin.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the
                              > > > > > two
                              > > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records
                              > > that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records
                              > > for the person have the names reversed.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Elaine
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
                              > > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Tom,
                              > > >
                              > > > > > > As for the â?oe(humenyk)â? , since there seems to be a large
                              > > > > > > number
                              > > of Grega you may have a case of a â?oedoâ? name as I call it. I found
                              > > in my village that my family has three â?oedoâ? names. Each â?oedoâ?
                              > > name is given to a branch of the family. What the â?oedoâ? name is
                              > used
                              > > to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and
                              > surnames.
                              > > So instead of using the usual surname the â?oedoâ? name for that
                              > person
                              > > would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â?oedoâ?
                              > name
                              > > used in all sort of records. I found that the â?oedoâ? name was
                              > totally
                              > > an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever
                              > used.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > From: Tom
                              > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                              > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
                              > > > > > > humenyk
                              > > Grega
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
                              > > > > > > Minnick, I
                              > > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family
                              > > name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for
                              > > the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage
                              > record
                              > > for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in
                              > > Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org,
                              > and
                              > > found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega.
                              > > Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the
                              > > baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                              > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Ladislav Rosival
                              It is realy off topic, but the problem could be that the original post from Ron did not have the information that it is written in UTF-8, or it can be a
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                It is realy off topic, but the problem could be that the original post from Ron did not have the information that it is written in UTF-8, or it can be a problem in the mailer of Tom which did not recognize the correct encoding. Or both of them. And a lot of another issues. And also writing in HTML-mode makes it more complex.



                                For example my BlackBerry displayed the post of Ron correctly, on my PC i have to change the encoding of this mail to UTF-8.



                                Especialy in mailing list it is quite common that after more answers the original text ist not more readable.



                                Ladislav



                                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of t.salony
                                Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:49 AM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [S-R] Re: OFFTOPIC - Character Encoding







                                Ron said: "For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8."

                                Thanks Ron. Everything in your post came through properly, and when I looked, MY Character Encoding was set to UTF8.

                                However, when I went on to read the next post/reply by Tom Potsko,the following shows:
                                1. In the repetition of your post, each letter c with accent now shows as a black diamond containing a white question mark.
                                2. In the repetition of Michael Mojner's posts, both to Elaine then to Tom, the closing quote mark on each word he has enclosed in quotes, shows as the same black diamond containing a white question mark.

                                I am able to understand the text, even with seeing the incorrect character, but does what I describe possibly indicate what the problem is?

                                ***Apologies for inserting this unrelated post.***

                                TOM

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Elaine,
                                >
                                > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (ÄŤoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od ÄŤoho).
                                >
                                > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                                > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                                > From another grammar:
                                >
                                > do = preposition, answer ÄŤoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                                > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                                >
                                > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                                > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                                >
                                > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                                >
                                > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                                >
                                > Ron
                                >
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                                > >
                                > > Elaine
                                > >
                                > > Sent from my iPhone
                                > >
                                > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Elaine,
                                > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                                > > >
                                > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                                > > >
                                > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                                > > >
                                > > > From: Elaine
                                > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                                > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                > > >
                                > > > Michael,
                                > > >
                                > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                                > > >
                                > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                                > > >
                                > > > Elaine
                                > > >
                                > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                > > >
                                > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > Tom,
                                >
                                > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: Tom
                                > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                                > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ron
                                Elaine, Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago. On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to changing times and conventions in
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                  Elaine,

                                  Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago.

                                  On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to changing times and conventions in recording, and how "Hungarian" the scribe was, since Hungarians traditionally place last name first.

                                  On the change of names from Jedzuth to "=Herczeg", at times people have proposed several reasonable reasons, such as a man marrying into a well to do family and assuming that family name for continuity. I have forgotten the others.

                                  Bill Tarkulich of this forum spent years assembling innumerable references on a tremendous variety of topics directly related to Slovak genealogy. I suggest browsing and searching his website to gain a tremendous background on our peoples.
                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/table_of_contents.htm

                                  Ron
                                  PS I should use it more often myself!

                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from several generations ago?
                                  >
                                  > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names. Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has it as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was confused!)
                                  >
                                  > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names (and spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said "=Herczeg." All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name. Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_ name?
                                  >
                                  > Elaine
                                  >
                                  > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and I didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
                                  >
                                  > Sent from my iPhone
                                  >
                                  > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Elaine,
                                  > >
                                  > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od čoho).
                                  > >
                                  > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                                  > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                                  > > From another grammar:
                                  > >
                                  > > do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                                  > > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                                  > >
                                  > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                                  > > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                                  > >
                                  > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                                  > >
                                  > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                                  > >
                                  > > Ron
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Elaine
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                  > > >
                                  > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > Elaine,
                                  > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: Elaine
                                  > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                                  > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Michael,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Elaine
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > Tom,
                                  > >
                                  > > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > From: Tom
                                  > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                                  > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Ron
                                  Ladislav, Thanks for posting. This doesn t seem off topic to me, it seems as important as how do you add heat when cooking a good soup. We can t communicate
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                    Ladislav,

                                    Thanks for posting. This doesn't seem off topic to me, it seems as important as "how do you add heat" when cooking a good soup. We can\t communicate without living with the existing coding, and it seems to remain a constant challenge, as you express well.

                                    Personally, I believe some internet carriers or pass-through sites are just set up for unaccented "Western" alphabet and strip off the necessary coding we need. Your commentary seems quite appropriate.

                                    It is complex and is a problem that will remain with us.

                                    Ron

                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > It is realy off topic, but the problem could be that the original post from Ron did not have the information that it is written in UTF-8, or it can be a problem in the mailer of Tom which did not recognize the correct encoding. Or both of them. And a lot of another issues. And also writing in HTML-mode makes it more complex.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > For example my BlackBerry displayed the post of Ron correctly, on my PC i have to change the encoding of this mail to UTF-8.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Especialy in mailing list it is quite common that after more answers the original text ist not more readable.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ladislav
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of t.salony
                                    > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:49 AM
                                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [S-R] Re: OFFTOPIC - Character Encoding
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ron said: "For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8."
                                    >
                                    > Thanks Ron. Everything in your post came through properly, and when I looked, MY Character Encoding was set to UTF8.
                                    >
                                    > However, when I went on to read the next post/reply by Tom Potsko,the following shows:
                                    > 1. In the repetition of your post, each letter c with accent now shows as a black diamond containing a white question mark.
                                    > 2. In the repetition of Michael Mojner's posts, both to Elaine then to Tom, the closing quote mark on each word he has enclosed in quotes, shows as the same black diamond containing a white question mark.
                                    >
                                    > I am able to understand the text, even with seeing the incorrect character, but does what I describe possibly indicate what the problem is?
                                    >
                                    > ***Apologies for inserting this unrelated post.***
                                    >
                                    > TOM
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Elaine,
                                    > >
                                    > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (ÄŤoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od ÄŤoho).
                                    > >
                                    > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                                    > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                                    > > From another grammar:
                                    > >
                                    > > do = preposition, answer ÄŤoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                                    > > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                                    > >
                                    > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                                    > > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                                    > >
                                    > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                                    > >
                                    > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ron
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Elaine
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Elaine,
                                    > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â€Å"doe”, it is the Slovak word for â€Å"of”. The Latin had the word â€Å"alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The surname and â€Å"do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the â€Å"do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a â€Å"big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â€Å"do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The â€Å"do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > From: Elaine
                                    > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                                    > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Michael,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Elaine
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > Tom,
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > As for the â€Å"(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a â€Å"do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three â€Å"do” names. Each â€Å"do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the â€Å"do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the â€Å"do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â€Å"do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the â€Å"do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > From: Tom
                                    > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                                    > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Elaine
                                    Ron, Many thanks again for your insights. I remember reading in this forum about the possibility of a man changing his surname to his wife s, but I did not
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                      Ron,

                                      Many thanks again for your insights. I remember reading in this forum about the possibility of a man changing his surname to his wife's, but I did not connect it with this occasion. It certainly could be a possibility, since there did not seem to be that many individuals with the surname.

                                      And you are so right to remind us of the wealth of information on iabsi.com. Many thanks!

                                      Elaine

                                      Sent from my iPhone

                                      On Mar 26, 2012, at 10:41 AM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:

                                      > Elaine,
                                      >
                                      > Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago.
                                      >
                                      > On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to changing times and conventions in recording, and how "Hungarian" the scribe was, since Hungarians traditionally place last name first.
                                      >
                                      > On the change of names from Jedzuth to "=Herczeg", at times people have proposed several reasonable reasons, such as a man marrying into a well to do family and assuming that family name for continuity. I have forgotten the others.
                                      >
                                      > Bill Tarkulich of this forum spent years assembling innumerable references on a tremendous variety of topics directly related to Slovak genealogy. I suggest browsing and searching his website to gain a tremendous background on our peoples.
                                      > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/table_of_contents.htm
                                      >
                                      > Ron
                                      > PS I should use it more often myself!
                                      >
                                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from several generations ago?
                                      > >
                                      > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names. Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has it as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was confused!)
                                      > >
                                      > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names (and spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said "=Herczeg." All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name. Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_ name?
                                      > >
                                      > > Elaine
                                      > >
                                      > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and I didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
                                      > >
                                      > > Sent from my iPhone
                                      > >
                                      > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Elaine,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od čoho).
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                                      > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                                      > > > From another grammar:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                                      > > > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                                      > > >
                                      > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                                      > > > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover that distinction.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ron
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Elaine
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > Elaine,
                                      > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable no one when using the “do” name would have considered it being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew who the proper person was.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then you understood there was another person living there that had the same exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > From: Elaine
                                      > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                                      > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Michael,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do" occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at least in records done in Latin.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records for the person have the names reversed.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Elaine
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Tom,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do” name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever used.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > From: Tom
                                      > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                                      > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • William
                                      ... I had a professor in college whose mother was from a more prominent family than his father. Consequently, when they married, he took his wife s surname as
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                        On 3/26/2012 12:33 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Ron,
                                        >
                                        > Many thanks again for your insights. I remember reading in this forum
                                        > about the possibility of a man changing his surname to his wife's, but
                                        > I did not connect it with this occasion. It certainly could be a
                                        > possibility, since there did not seem to be that many individuals with
                                        > the surname.
                                        >
                                        > And you are so right to remind us of the wealth of information on
                                        > iabsi.com. Many thanks!
                                        >
                                        > Elaine
                                        >
                                        > Sent from my iPhone
                                        >
                                        > On Mar 26, 2012, at 10:41 AM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
                                        > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Elaine,
                                        > >
                                        > > Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago.
                                        > >
                                        > > On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to
                                        > changing times and conventions in recording, and how "Hungarian" the
                                        > scribe was, since Hungarians traditionally place last name first.
                                        > >
                                        > > On the change of names from Jedzuth to "=Herczeg", at times people
                                        > have proposed several reasonable reasons, such as a man marrying into
                                        > a well to do family and assuming that family name for continuity. I
                                        > have forgotten the others.
                                        > >
                                        > > Bill Tarkulich of this forum spent years assembling innumerable
                                        > references on a tremendous variety of topics directly related to
                                        > Slovak genealogy. I suggest browsing and searching his website to gain
                                        > a tremendous background on our peoples.
                                        > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/table_of_contents.htm
                                        > >
                                        > > Ron
                                        > > PS I should use it more often myself!
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in
                                        > your family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he
                                        > from several generations ago?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_
                                        > names. Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has
                                        > been that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
                                        > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has it
                                        > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
                                        > confused!)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
                                        > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
                                        > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names (and
                                        > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
                                        > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said "=Herczeg."
                                        > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
                                        > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_ name?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Elaine
                                        > > >
                                        > > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer,
                                        > and I didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > Elaine,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
                                        > female deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I
                                        > do, a preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_
                                        > governs the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the
                                        > questions: of whom (koho), of what (čoho), from whom (od koho), and
                                        > from what (od čoho).
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
                                        > > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
                                        > > > > From another grammar:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > do = preposition, answer čoho, to, for toward, by, within,
                                        > > > > eg, zaľúbený do = in love with
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as
                                        > > > > Jones do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too
                                        > many Vallo, we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have
                                        > to discover that distinction.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch
                                        > your view of character encoding to UTF8.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Ron
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>, Elaine <epowell@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Elaine
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Elaine,
                                        > > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as
                                        > being “doe”, it is the Slovak word for “of”. The
                                        > Latin had the word “alias”, so it is not surprising that it
                                        > would have been used in the church records recorded in Latin.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > The surname and “do” names were so interchangeable
                                        > no one when using the “do” name would have considered it
                                        > being different. It was a substituted aide to make sure that the
                                        > correct information when to the proper person. I especially saw this
                                        > in land records where it would be a “big deal” that you knew
                                        > who the proper person was.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the “do” then
                                        > you understood there was another person living there that had the same
                                        > exact name. The “do” was not used indiscriminately, but with
                                        > a purpose.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > From: Elaine
                                        > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
                                        > > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
                                        > humenyk Grega
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Michael,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
                                        > occurs in several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word,
                                        > and if so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records
                                        > I have reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias,"
                                        > at least in records done in Latin.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of
                                        > the two names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen
                                        > records that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other
                                        > records for the person have the names reversed.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Elaine
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher"
                                        > <mailto:mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Tom,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > As for the “(humenyk)”, since there seems to be
                                        > a large number of Grega you may have a case of a “do” name
                                        > as I call it. I found in my village that my family has three
                                        > “do” names. Each “do” name is given to a branch of
                                        > the family. What the “do” name is used to tell two people
                                        > apart that share the exact same given and surnames. So instead of
                                        > using the usual surname the “do” name for that person would
                                        > be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the “do”
                                        > name used in all sort of records. I found that the “do” name
                                        > was totally an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if
                                        > it was ever used.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > From: Tom
                                        > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
                                        > > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
                                        > humenyk Grega
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
                                        > Minnick, I found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the
                                        > real family name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of
                                        > Humenne for the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The
                                        > marriage record for his grandmother indicated date of birth as
                                        > 27July1894 in Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on
                                        > FamilySearch.org, and found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father
                                        > Janos(humenyk) Grega. Does anyone see a meaning for the not
                                        > capitalized humenyk on the baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        I had a professor in college whose mother was from a more prominent
                                        family than his father. Consequently, when they married, he took his
                                        wife's surname as the family name. Also, my maternal grandfather's
                                        first and last name was the same as three other men who lived in the
                                        village at the same time. Each had an "alias" so that the men could be
                                        told apart. The "alias" or "do" (pronounced with a short "o" not like
                                        ""doe") referred to a specific characteristic such as Jan Ferenc~ik
                                        Kornos, or the Jan Ferenc~ik who lived in the house that Kornos built.
                                        This was my maternal grandfather and the name on his headstone is
                                        "Kornos" with "Jan Ferenc~ik" in smaller letters underneath.

                                        Bill Brna


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Elaine
                                        Thank you, Bill Brrrrrrrna! It s always good to have your input. This example could be potentially confusing to future genealogists in your family, because if
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                          Thank you, Bill Brrrrrrrna! It's always good to have your input.

                                          This example could be potentially confusing to future genealogists in your family, because if they looked at that tombstone instead of official records, it could send someone looking into the Kornos family! Good thing you have shared your genealogy with all the family! (Right?) ;)

                                          Elaine

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On Mar 26, 2012, at 12:31 PM, William <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                                          > On 3/26/2012 12:33 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Ron,
                                          > >
                                          > > Many thanks again for your insights. I remember reading in this forum
                                          > > about the possibility of a man changing his surname to his wife's, but
                                          > > I did not connect it with this occasion. It certainly could be a
                                          > > possibility, since there did not seem to be that many individuals with
                                          > > the surname.
                                          > >
                                          > > And you are so right to remind us of the wealth of information on
                                          > > iabsi.com. Many thanks!
                                          > >
                                          > > Elaine
                                          > >
                                          > > Sent from my iPhone
                                          > >
                                          > > On Mar 26, 2012, at 10:41 AM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
                                          > > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Elaine,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to
                                          > > changing times and conventions in recording, and how "Hungarian" the
                                          > > scribe was, since Hungarians traditionally place last name first.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On the change of names from Jedzuth to "=Herczeg", at times people
                                          > > have proposed several reasonable reasons, such as a man marrying into
                                          > > a well to do family and assuming that family name for continuity. I
                                          > > have forgotten the others.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bill Tarkulich of this forum spent years assembling innumerable
                                          > > references on a tremendous variety of topics directly related to
                                          > > Slovak genealogy. I suggest browsing and searching his website to gain
                                          > > a tremendous background on our peoples.
                                          > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/table_of_contents.htm
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ron
                                          > > > PS I should use it more often myself!
                                          >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > I had a professor in college whose mother was from a more prominent
                                          > family than his father. Consequently, when they married, he took his
                                          > wife's surname as the family name. Also, my maternal grandfather's
                                          > first and last name was the same as three other men who lived in the
                                          > village at the same time. Each had an "alias" so that the men could be
                                          > told apart. The "alias" or "do" (pronounced with a short "o" not like
                                          > ""doe") referred to a specific characteristic such as Jan Ferenc~ik
                                          > Kornos, or the Jan Ferenc~ik who lived in the house that Kornos built.
                                          > This was my maternal grandfather and the name on his headstone is
                                          > "Kornos" with "Jan Ferenc~ik" in smaller letters underneath.
                                          >
                                          > Bill Brna
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • William
                                          ... Elaine, Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name and
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                            On 3/26/2012 5:49 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Thank you, Bill Brrrrrrrna! It's always good to have your input.
                                            >
                                            > This example could be potentially confusing to future genealogists in
                                            > your family, because if they looked at that tombstone instead of
                                            > official records, it could send someone looking into the Kornos
                                            > family! Good thing you have shared your genealogy with all the family!
                                            > (Right?) ;)
                                            >
                                            > Elaine
                                            >
                                            > Sent from my iPhone
                                            >
                                            > On Mar 26, 2012, at 12:31 PM, William <wfbrna@...
                                            > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > On 3/26/2012 12:33 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Ron,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Many thanks again for your insights. I remember reading in this forum
                                            > > > about the possibility of a man changing his surname to his wife's,
                                            > but
                                            > > > I did not connect it with this occasion. It certainly could be a
                                            > > > possibility, since there did not seem to be that many individuals
                                            > with
                                            > > > the surname.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > And you are so right to remind us of the wealth of information on
                                            > > > iabsi.com. Many thanks!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Elaine
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Mar 26, 2012, at 10:41 AM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
                                            > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com>
                                            > > > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > Elaine,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Our Paul / Pavel / Pal is several generations ago.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > On name order, I always assumed the inconsistencies were due to
                                            > > > changing times and conventions in recording, and how "Hungarian" the
                                            > > > scribe was, since Hungarians traditionally place last name first.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > On the change of names from Jedzuth to "=Herczeg", at times people
                                            > > > have proposed several reasonable reasons, such as a man marrying into
                                            > > > a well to do family and assuming that family name for continuity. I
                                            > > > have forgotten the others.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Bill Tarkulich of this forum spent years assembling innumerable
                                            > > > references on a tremendous variety of topics directly related to
                                            > > > Slovak genealogy. I suggest browsing and searching his website to
                                            > gain
                                            > > > a tremendous background on our peoples.
                                            > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/table_of_contents.htm
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Ron
                                            > > > > PS I should use it more often myself!
                                            > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > I had a professor in college whose mother was from a more prominent
                                            > > family than his father. Consequently, when they married, he took his
                                            > > wife's surname as the family name. Also, my maternal grandfather's
                                            > > first and last name was the same as three other men who lived in the
                                            > > village at the same time. Each had an "alias" so that the men could be
                                            > > told apart. The "alias" or "do" (pronounced with a short "o" not like
                                            > > ""doe") referred to a specific characteristic such as Jan Ferenc~ik
                                            > > Kornos, or the Jan Ferenc~ik who lived in the house that Kornos built.
                                            > > This was my maternal grandfather and the name on his headstone is
                                            > > "Kornos" with "Jan Ferenc~ik" in smaller letters underneath.
                                            > >
                                            > > Bill Brna
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            Elaine,

                                            Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her
                                            family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name and
                                            their aliases. I mentioned three of them, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, Jan
                                            Ferenc~ik Matilak, and Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos, who was her grandfather. I
                                            couldn't remember the fourth one and she supplied his name, Jan
                                            Ferenc~ik Kachut. It struck me that these were people that she actually
                                            knew!

                                            Incidentally, I have been contacted by another Brna, Karlo, who lives in
                                            Backi Petrovac, Serbia. He is a descendant of the Slovaks who were sent
                                            to Serbia by Maria Therese in the middle of the 18th century, to act as
                                            a buffer between the Serbs and the Turks. It is amazing what one learns
                                            when pursuing genealogy! I hope to have more about him and his family
                                            as I learn more. One thing that he did tell me is that his grandfather
                                            was a personal friend of Marshall Tito.

                                            Bill


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Elaine
                                            Bill, that is very interesting that they ALL had _do_ names--seems like the fair way to handle it--other than starting to use a greater variety of first
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Mar 26, 2012
                                              Bill, that is very interesting that they ALL had _do_ names--seems like the "fair" way to handle it--other than starting to use a greater variety of first names!

                                              I assume those four Ferenc~iks are not related, is that correct? (And do you use a tilda in place of the ˇ?) My first reaction is that it would be strange for them NOT to be related, if there are "naming conventions" that were still in use when they were born. But Jan and Ferenc~ik may be used enough that a larger town could have that many.

                                              One of my lines in Kostolany nad Hornadom was Holub, and although that is a common name, because of some records in the Ellis Island and FamilySearch databases, I was able to find my gggrandparents and all their children, including my ggrandmother. I had the 1869 Census information, so I could see the family structure at that point. As I went back in time, though, I ran into some challenges with same-named Holub men who could have been either cousins or uncle/nephews. My direct line ended up having George in it, when none of the others did, so I am reasonably sure about that part of the family. I did not find any _do_ names for the Holubs, although I did see the practice in the records. Besides gathering all the information again, can you recommend any particular aid? For instance, I've seen the 1828 census mentioned in this forum, but I understand it is not the same all townspeople-type as the 1869 one.

                                              With continued appreciation for the excellent suggestions you and other forum members have,

                                              Elaine

                                              Sent from my iPhone

                                              On Mar 26, 2012, at 5:23 PM, William <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                                              > >
                                              > Elaine,
                                              >
                                              > Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her
                                              > family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name and
                                              > their aliases. I mentioned three of them, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, Jan
                                              > Ferenc~ik Matilak, and Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos, who was her grandfather. I
                                              > couldn't remember the fourth one and she supplied his name, Jan
                                              > Ferenc~ik Kachut. It struck me that these were people that she actually
                                              > knew!
                                              >
                                              > Incidentally, I have been contacted by another Brna, Karlo, who lives in
                                              > Backi Petrovac, Serbia. He is a descendant of the Slovaks who were sent
                                              > to Serbia by Maria Therese in the middle of the 18th century, to act as
                                              > a buffer between the Serbs and the Turks. It is amazing what one learns
                                              > when pursuing genealogy! I hope to have more about him and his family
                                              > as I learn more. One thing that he did tell me is that his grandfather
                                              > was a personal friend of Marshall Tito.
                                              >
                                              > Bill
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • William
                                              ... Elaine, I have not pursued the possibility (probability) that all four were related. Krasna Horka is a small town (now part of Trvdos~in) and it is very
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
                                                On 3/26/2012 11:41 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Bill, that is very interesting that they ALL had _do_ names--seems
                                                > like the "fair" way to handle it--other than starting to use a greater
                                                > variety of first names!
                                                >
                                                > I assume those four Ferenc~iks are not related, is that correct? (And
                                                > do you use a tilda in place of the ˇ?) My first reaction is that it
                                                > would be strange for them NOT to be related, if there are "naming
                                                > conventions" that were still in use when they were born. But Jan and
                                                > Ferenc~ik may be used enough that a larger town could have that many.
                                                >
                                                > One of my lines in Kostolany nad Hornadom was Holub, and although that
                                                > is a common name, because of some records in the Ellis Island and
                                                > FamilySearch databases, I was able to find my gggrandparents and all
                                                > their children, including my ggrandmother. I had the 1869 Census
                                                > information, so I could see the family structure at that point. As I
                                                > went back in time, though, I ran into some challenges with same-named
                                                > Holub men who could have been either cousins or uncle/nephews. My
                                                > direct line ended up having George in it, when none of the others did,
                                                > so I am reasonably sure about that part of the family. I did not find
                                                > any _do_ names for the Holubs, although I did see the practice in the
                                                > records. Besides gathering all the information again, can you
                                                > recommend any particular aid? For instance, I've seen the 1828 census
                                                > mentioned in this forum, but I understand it is not the same all
                                                > townspeople-type as the 1869 one.
                                                >
                                                > With continued appreciation for the excellent suggestions you and
                                                > other forum members have,
                                                >
                                                > Elaine
                                                >
                                                > Sent from my iPhone
                                                >
                                                > On Mar 26, 2012, at 5:23 PM, William <wfbrna@...
                                                > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > >
                                                > > Elaine,
                                                > >
                                                > > Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her
                                                > > family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name
                                                > and
                                                > > their aliases. I mentioned three of them, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, Jan
                                                > > Ferenc~ik Matilak, and Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos, who was her grandfather. I
                                                > > couldn't remember the fourth one and she supplied his name, Jan
                                                > > Ferenc~ik Kachut. It struck me that these were people that she actually
                                                > > knew!
                                                > >
                                                > > Incidentally, I have been contacted by another Brna, Karlo, who
                                                > lives in
                                                > > Backi Petrovac, Serbia. He is a descendant of the Slovaks who were sent
                                                > > to Serbia by Maria Therese in the middle of the 18th century, to act as
                                                > > a buffer between the Serbs and the Turks. It is amazing what one learns
                                                > > when pursuing genealogy! I hope to have more about him and his family
                                                > > as I learn more. One thing that he did tell me is that his grandfather
                                                > > was a personal friend of Marshall Tito.
                                                > >
                                                > > Bill
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                Elaine,

                                                I have not pursued the possibility (probability) that all four were
                                                related. Krasna Horka is a small town (now part of Trvdos~in) and it is
                                                very likely that there was a relationship at some time in the past. I
                                                am aware of at least one other Ferenc~ik family in Krasna Horka (Pavel)
                                                but, since I was interested in my mother's family, I stayed with the
                                                direct line.

                                                I also use the "tilda" since my keyboard does not include Slovak
                                                characters. I know that I could change to the Slovak alphabet, but I
                                                simply don't have time to do everything that I would like to.

                                                Bill


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Margo Smith
                                                Elaine, the 1828 census is actually a tax list.  Male heads of households, taxable, under age 60.  Personally, I like that it includes the farm animals on
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
                                                  Elaine, the 1828 "census" is actually a tax list.  Male heads of households, taxable, under age 60.  Personally, I like that it includes the farm animals on which they were taxed.
                                                   
                                                  Margo

                                                  From: William <wfbrna@...>
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 6:31 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega


                                                   
                                                  On 3/26/2012 11:41 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Bill, that is very interesting that they ALL had _do_ names--seems
                                                  > like the "fair" way to handle it--other than starting to use a greater
                                                  > variety of first names!
                                                  >
                                                  > I assume those four Ferenc~iks are not related, is that correct? (And
                                                  > do you use a tilda in place of the ˇ?) My first reaction is that it
                                                  > would be strange for them NOT to be related, if there are "naming
                                                  > conventions" that were still in use when they were born. But Jan and
                                                  > Ferenc~ik may be used enough that a larger town could have that many.
                                                  >
                                                  > One of my lines in Kostolany nad Hornadom was Holub, and although that
                                                  > is a common name, because of some records in the Ellis Island and
                                                  > FamilySearch databases, I was able to find my gggrandparents and all
                                                  > their children, including my ggrandmother. I had the 1869 Census
                                                  > information, so I could see the family structure at that point. As I
                                                  > went back in time, though, I ran into some challenges with same-named
                                                  > Holub men who could have been either cousins or uncle/nephews. My
                                                  > direct line ended up having George in it, when none of the others did,
                                                  > so I am reasonably sure about that part of the family. I did not find
                                                  > any _do_ names for the Holubs, although I did see the practice in the
                                                  > records. Besides gathering all the information again, can you
                                                  > recommend any particular aid? For instance, I've seen the 1828 census
                                                  > mentioned in this forum, but I understand it is not the same all
                                                  > townspeople-type as the 1869 one.
                                                  >
                                                  > With continued appreciation for the excellent suggestions you and
                                                  > other forum members have,
                                                  >
                                                  > Elaine
                                                  >
                                                  > Sent from my iPhone
                                                  >
                                                  > On Mar 26, 2012, at 5:23 PM, William <wfbrna@...
                                                  > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > Elaine,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her
                                                  > > family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name
                                                  > and
                                                  > > their aliases. I mentioned three of them, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, Jan
                                                  > > Ferenc~ik Matilak, and Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos, who was her grandfather. I
                                                  > > couldn't remember the fourth one and she supplied his name, Jan
                                                  > > Ferenc~ik Kachut. It struck me that these were people that she actually
                                                  > > knew!
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Incidentally, I have been contacted by another Brna, Karlo, who
                                                  > lives in
                                                  > > Backi Petrovac, Serbia. He is a descendant of the Slovaks who were sent
                                                  > > to Serbia by Maria Therese in the middle of the 18th century, to act as
                                                  > > a buffer between the Serbs and the Turks. It is amazing what one learns
                                                  > > when pursuing genealogy! I hope to have more about him and his family
                                                  > > as I learn more. One thing that he did tell me is that his grandfather
                                                  > > was a personal friend of Marshall Tito.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Bill
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  Elaine,

                                                  I have not pursued the possibility (probability) that all four were
                                                  related. Krasna Horka is a small town (now part of Trvdos~in) and it is
                                                  very likely that there was a relationship at some time in the past. I
                                                  am aware of at least one other Ferenc~ik family in Krasna Horka (Pavel)
                                                  but, since I was interested in my mother's family, I stayed with the
                                                  direct line.

                                                  I also use the "tilda" since my keyboard does not include Slovak
                                                  characters. I know that I could change to the Slovak alphabet, but I
                                                  simply don't have time to do everything that I would like to.

                                                  Bill

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Elaine
                                                  Thanks, Margo. The animal chart in the 1869 census was one of my favorite parts also! Elaine Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Mar 27, 2012
                                                    Thanks, Margo. The animal chart in the 1869 census was one of my favorite parts also!

                                                    Elaine

                                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                                    On Mar 27, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:

                                                    > Elaine, the 1828 "census" is actually a tax list. Male heads of households, taxable, under age 60. Personally, I like that it includes the farm animals on which they were taxed.
                                                    >
                                                    > Margo
                                                    >
                                                    > From: William <wfbrna@...>
                                                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 6:31 AM
                                                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Grega
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > On 3/26/2012 11:41 PM, Elaine wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Bill, that is very interesting that they ALL had _do_ names--seems
                                                    > > like the "fair" way to handle it--other than starting to use a greater
                                                    > > variety of first names!
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I assume those four Ferenc~iks are not related, is that correct? (And
                                                    > > do you use a tilda in place of the ˇ?) My first reaction is that it
                                                    > > would be strange for them NOT to be related, if there are "naming
                                                    > > conventions" that were still in use when they were born. But Jan and
                                                    > > Ferenc~ik may be used enough that a larger town could have that many.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > One of my lines in Kostolany nad Hornadom was Holub, and although that
                                                    > > is a common name, because of some records in the Ellis Island and
                                                    > > FamilySearch databases, I was able to find my gggrandparents and all
                                                    > > their children, including my ggrandmother. I had the 1869 Census
                                                    > > information, so I could see the family structure at that point. As I
                                                    > > went back in time, though, I ran into some challenges with same-named
                                                    > > Holub men who could have been either cousins or uncle/nephews. My
                                                    > > direct line ended up having George in it, when none of the others did,
                                                    > > so I am reasonably sure about that part of the family. I did not find
                                                    > > any _do_ names for the Holubs, although I did see the practice in the
                                                    > > records. Besides gathering all the information again, can you
                                                    > > recommend any particular aid? For instance, I've seen the 1828 census
                                                    > > mentioned in this forum, but I understand it is not the same all
                                                    > > townspeople-type as the 1869 one.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > With continued appreciation for the excellent suggestions you and
                                                    > > other forum members have,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Elaine
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On Mar 26, 2012, at 5:23 PM, William <wfbrna@...
                                                    > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > Elaine,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Probably the most interesting meeting that I had with my cousin and her
                                                    > > > family is that we were talking about the four men with the same name
                                                    > > and
                                                    > > > their aliases. I mentioned three of them, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, Jan
                                                    > > > Ferenc~ik Matilak, and Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos, who was her grandfather. I
                                                    > > > couldn't remember the fourth one and she supplied his name, Jan
                                                    > > > Ferenc~ik Kachut. It struck me that these were people that she actually
                                                    > > > knew!
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Incidentally, I have been contacted by another Brna, Karlo, who
                                                    > > lives in
                                                    > > > Backi Petrovac, Serbia. He is a descendant of the Slovaks who were sent
                                                    > > > to Serbia by Maria Therese in the middle of the 18th century, to act as
                                                    > > > a buffer between the Serbs and the Turks. It is amazing what one learns
                                                    > > > when pursuing genealogy! I hope to have more about him and his family
                                                    > > > as I learn more. One thing that he did tell me is that his grandfather
                                                    > > > was a personal friend of Marshall Tito.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Bill
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > Elaine,
                                                    >
                                                    > I have not pursued the possibility (probability) that all four were
                                                    > related. Krasna Horka is a small town (now part of Trvdos~in) and it is
                                                    > very likely that there was a relationship at some time in the past. I
                                                    > am aware of at least one other Ferenc~ik family in Krasna Horka (Pavel)
                                                    > but, since I was interested in my mother's family, I stayed with the
                                                    > direct line.
                                                    >
                                                    > I also use the "tilda" since my keyboard does not include Slovak
                                                    > characters. I know that I could change to the Slovak alphabet, but I
                                                    > simply don't have time to do everything that I would like to.
                                                    >
                                                    > Bill
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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