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Re: Re: "alias Vangor"

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  • Andrea Vangor
    Joe, as always I am dazzled by your erudition. Years ago, one of my professors was an old anatomist named Dr. Gabor Inke, a Hungarian. He insisted that my
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 5, 1999
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      Joe, as always I am dazzled by your erudition. Years ago, one of my
      professors was an old anatomist named Dr. Gabor Inke, a Hungarian. He
      insisted that my surname was Hungarian and I insisted that it was Slovak
      because that's what my Dad said his people were. But when I started to
      research Dad's father's people, I knew that I had to look in southern
      Slovakia, because the name probably IS Hungarian. Sure enough, the Vangors
      turn up in C~akanovce, Abov.

      The earliest Vangor I have found is a Martin Vangor from 1782 in that area,
      dropping in as a godfather to a baptism. The name is spelled with the
      variations Wangor and Wangur here and there but settles down before 1800
      into Vangor. Gee, this is interesting. My great-aunt Minnie would have a
      fit. She intensely disliked Hungarians! And dearly loved my Dad.

      What about the word "goral" for those mountain people? Where does that come
      from?

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Joe Armata <JOE@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@onelist.com>
      Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:58 AM
      Subject: Re: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] "alias Vangor"


      > From: "Joe Armata" <JOE@...>
      >
      > > What does Hudak mean? I am told that is also a common name.
      > > I don't think Vangor means anything in particular.
      >
      > Hudak is a folk term for a musician (from hudba = music), or it could
      > be a different spelling for chudak, a poor man.
      >
      > Vangor might refer to a Hungarian. The same root is in Polish
      > (pronounced "vengier") and Russian (vyengyer). The old vowels "an"
      > and "en" can alternate - I've heard Polish dialects where they talk
      > about "Vangria" = Hungary (pronounced "Vengry" in standard Polish).
      > Since in Slovak the same root evolved into uhor-, and there are no
      > native "g"s in Slovak (they all evolved into "h"), this might show
      > some foreign influence in your background. The original root was
      > "Onogur", the Turkic name for the confederation of ten Turkic and
      > Uralic tribes that swept into Hungary in the 9th century; it meant
      > "The Ten Arrows" = ten tribes. The Onogur root also gives us English
      > Hungary (probably by way of Latin Hungaria).
      >
      > Joe Armata
      > joe@...
      >
      >
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    • joe@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xxx
      ... that ... Andrea, you are so sweet! Goral comes from Polish, referring to a highlander (vrchar in Slovak). It s actually pronounced gural - the o has an
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 7, 1999
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        > What about the word "goral" for those mountain people? Where does
        that
        > come from?

        Andrea, you are so sweet!

        Goral comes from Polish, referring to a highlander (vrchar in Slovak).
        It's actually pronounced "gural" - the o has an accent mark over it in
        Polish, but Slovak drops the accent mark, so in literary Slovak it's
        usually pronounced goral, but villagers still say gural. From what I've
        read, some settlers were already there during the 11th/12th centuries,
        when the Polish/Hungarian border was farther south - the upper reaches
        of the Hornad and Vah rivers. After the border had shifted north, some
        skipped over the border to flee oppressive feudal conditions in Poland,
        or because there were in trouble with the law. Probably the majority
        though came into the area with the Wallachian migrations of the 15th to
        17th centuries. They've preserved their Polish dialect in compact areas
        of northern Spis and Orava, and in island villages here and there where
        they're a majority of the population (like in Huty, Male/Velke Borove,
        Liptovska Teplicka, Liptovska Luzna or Lom nad Rimavicou), but in island
        villages where they were a minority early in this century (like in
        Liptovska Osada, Pohorela, or Polomka) they've assimilated to Slovak and
        disappeared as a distinct group.

        Joe
        joe@...
      • Andrea Vangor
        Dear Greg, Thanks for the fascinating information. I would have suspected some sort of linguistic missing links between Slovak and Polish up until recent
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 7, 1999
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          Dear Greg,

          Thanks for the fascinating information. I would have suspected some sort of
          linguistic missing links between Slovak and Polish up until recent times,
          meaning I suppose WWII.

          Are you familiar with the folk group Oravan? I wonder if some of their
          music on the audiotape that Greg Kopchak sells is goral music. Wierd pipes
          and so on. Did you notice that another lister found someone named Wanigura
          as a boarder in her ancestor's home around 1920?

          Maybe another Vangor variant. Julie Michutka, who posted about it, may be
          able to tell me more.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <joe@...>
          To: <slovak-roots@onelist.com>
          Sent: Saturday, August 07, 1999 3:06 PM
          Subject: [SLOVAK-ROOTS] Re: "alias Vangor"


          > From: joe@...
          >
          > > What about the word "goral" for those mountain people? Where does
          > that
          > > come from?
          >
          > Andrea, you are so sweet!
          >
          > Goral comes from Polish, referring to a highlander (vrchar in Slovak).
          > It's actually pronounced "gural" - the o has an accent mark over it in
          > Polish, but Slovak drops the accent mark, so in literary Slovak it's
          > usually pronounced goral, but villagers still say gural. From what I've
          > read, some settlers were already there during the 11th/12th centuries,
          > when the Polish/Hungarian border was farther south - the upper reaches
          > of the Hornad and Vah rivers. After the border had shifted north, some
          > skipped over the border to flee oppressive feudal conditions in Poland,
          > or because there were in trouble with the law. Probably the majority
          > though came into the area with the Wallachian migrations of the 15th to
          > 17th centuries. They've preserved their Polish dialect in compact areas
          > of northern Spis and Orava, and in island villages here and there where
          > they're a majority of the population (like in Huty, Male/Velke Borove,
          > Liptovska Teplicka, Liptovska Luzna or Lom nad Rimavicou), but in island
          > villages where they were a minority early in this century (like in
          > Liptovska Osada, Pohorela, or Polomka) they've assimilated to Slovak and
          > disappeared as a distinct group.
          >
          > Joe
          > joe@...
          >
          >
          >
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