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Re: [S-R] Surname "Balashazi", Baptismal term "Hazi" in Jordan River?

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  • Elaine
    David, I appreciated reading your comments on the i ii endings on Latin records that became yi in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 4, 2012
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      David,

      I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij" (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

      Elaine


      On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, david1law@... wrote:

      > Dear Jane:
      >
      > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
      > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from the
      > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the end
      > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the words
      > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and the
      > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
      > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often been
      > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very common
      > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
      > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI, BALASZHAZI, and
      > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
      >
      > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
      > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the word
      > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called Balásháza
      > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in Romanian.
      >
      >
      > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
      > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
      > (http://www.iabsi.com) ) and BALASHAZ* (with the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
      > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
      > but there may there may be a link to them.
      >
      > I hope that this helps a little.
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > David
      >
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      > jmurray6475@... writes:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I would like verification from this community on information I have heard
      > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great grandparents
      > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of the
      > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my brother-in-law
      > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
      > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his children.
      > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this
      > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find out how
      > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
      > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
      > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
      > you. Jane
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ladislav Rosival
      Hallo, I think there was a time when when a „y“ was written with with two points over it. It was also common to write a point over the number „1“. On
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 4, 2012
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        Hallo, I think there was a time when when a „y“ was written with with two points over it. It was also common to write a point over the number „1“.



        On the other hand „ij“ can be a valid ending especialy in eastern Slovakia.



        Like in many other things there is no general rule.



        Ladislav





        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaine
        Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 9:30 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Surname "Balashazi", Baptismal term "Hazi" in Jordan River?





        David,

        I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij" (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

        Elaine

        On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, david1law@... <mailto:david1law%40aol.com> wrote:

        > Dear Jane:
        >
        > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
        > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from the
        > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the end
        > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the words
        > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and the
        > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
        > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often been
        > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very common
        > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
        > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI, BALASZHAZI, and
        > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
        >
        > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
        > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the word
        > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called Balásháza
        > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in Romanian.
        >
        >
        > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
        > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
        > (http://www.iabsi.com) ) and BALASHAZ* (with the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
        > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
        > but there may there may be a link to them.
        >
        > I hope that this helps a little.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        > jmurray6475@... <mailto:jmurray6475%40yahoo.com> writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I would like verification from this community on information I have heard
        > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great grandparents
        > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of the
        > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my brother-in-law
        > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
        > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his children.
        > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this
        > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find out how
        > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
        > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
        > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
        > you. Jane
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • david1law@aol.com
        Dear Elaine: Yes, I have seen the ending ij in various records, and when I just did a search now in the ARCANUM database for B*IJ (* wildcard asterisk), I
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 4, 2012
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          Dear Elaine:

          Yes, I have seen the ending "ij" in various records, and when I just did a
          search now in the ARCANUM database for B*IJ (* wildcard asterisk), I came
          up with 54 instances of this sequence, and these date back in time to at
          least the 12th century (1196), where there was mention of the name "BYSSENIJ"
          which is elsewhere spelled "BYSSENI" and "BYSSENIJ" which is the name for
          the PECHENEGS, a Turkish tribe that came to Hungary in ancient times:

          _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs_
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs)

          And in keeping with the earlier theme, of those 54 instances, 13 of those
          were the spelling of the name "BLASIJ" for "BLASII" including a reference to
          Saint Blaise as "SANCTI BLASIJ."

          Throughout my research endeavors for about the past ten years, I have ended
          up having to study up a bit on languages, especially Latin and Greek, as
          well as linguistics. One has to very careful in drawing certain
          conclusions, however, because sometimes, there may be words which are sound the same
          (homophones) and sometimes even spelled the same, but have very different
          meanings. Here is a good article from Wikipedia that gives a pretty good
          description and illustrations:

          _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone_
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone)

          I believe that the "IJ" ending probably originated from a mistranscription
          of the original Latin because of bad penmanship and/or a misreading of the
          original Latin, and/or both, etc.

          By the way, the Slavic languages as well as the Hungarian language have
          declensions with different cases (such as nominative, genitive, dative,
          accusative, etc.) where the endings change based on the context of what is being
          written. The Latin and Greek languages also have declensions, and I
          recently found what I believe is the reason why a lot of the Slavic names end in
          the -OV and -OVA. In some cases, it appears to be a Latin
          mistranscription from the Greek letter NU which in its small case looks like a small "v"
          or a "u". In other words, the scribe knew Latin (but did not know Greek)
          and therefore transcribed the ending as "-OV" and "OVA" instead of the Greek
          "-ON" and "ONA" and

          I noticed the pattern in some of the Greek declension tables (see the
          illustration of the Second Declension):

          _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_grammar_(tables_
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_grammar_(tables) )


          Best regards,

          David


          In a message dated 3/4/2012 3:30:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          epowell@... writes:




          David,

          I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin
          records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched
          for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij"
          (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot
          over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

          Elaine

          On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, _david1law@..._ (mailto:david1law@...)
          wrote:

          > Dear Jane:
          >
          > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
          > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from
          the
          > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the
          end
          > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the
          words
          > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and
          the
          > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
          > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often
          been
          > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very
          common
          > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
          > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI,
          BALASZHAZI, and
          > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
          >
          > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
          > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the
          word
          > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called
          Balásháza
          > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in
          Romanian.
          >
          >
          > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
          > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
          > (_http://www.iabsi.com_ (http://www.iabsi.com/) ) ) and BALASHAZ* (with
          the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
          > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
          > but there may there may be a link to them.
          >
          > I hope that this helps a little.
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > David
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          > _jmurray6475@..._ (mailto:jmurray6475@...) writes:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I would like verification from this community on information I have
          heard
          > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great
          grandparents
          > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of
          the
          > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my
          brother-in-law
          > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
          > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his
          children.
          > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this

          > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find
          out how
          > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
          > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
          > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
          > you. Jane
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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