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Re: [S-R] Surname "Balashazi", Baptismal term "Hazi" in Jordan River?

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  • david1law@aol.com
    Dear Jane: The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means people/men/family from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 4 12:00 PM
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      Dear Jane:

      The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
      from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from the
      beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the end
      of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the words
      "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and the
      names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
      "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often been
      transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very common
      among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
      BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI, BALASZHAZI, and
      BALASZHAZYI, etc.

      The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
      Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the word
      "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called Balásháza
      (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in Romanian.


      I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
      database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
      (http://www.iabsi.com) ) and BALASHAZ* (with the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
      58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
      but there may there may be a link to them.

      I hope that this helps a little.

      Best regards,

      David



      In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      jmurray6475@... writes:




      I would like verification from this community on information I have heard
      past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great grandparents
      I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of the
      father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my brother-in-law
      who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
      water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his children.
      Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this
      added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find out how
      they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
      ship documents on such journeys made by families?
      I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
      you. Jane

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine
      David, I appreciated reading your comments on the i ii endings on Latin records that became yi in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 4 12:30 PM
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        David,

        I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij" (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

        Elaine


        On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, david1law@... wrote:

        > Dear Jane:
        >
        > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
        > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from the
        > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the end
        > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the words
        > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and the
        > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
        > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often been
        > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very common
        > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
        > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI, BALASZHAZI, and
        > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
        >
        > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
        > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the word
        > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called Balásháza
        > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in Romanian.
        >
        >
        > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
        > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
        > (http://www.iabsi.com) ) and BALASHAZ* (with the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
        > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
        > but there may there may be a link to them.
        >
        > I hope that this helps a little.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        > jmurray6475@... writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I would like verification from this community on information I have heard
        > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great grandparents
        > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of the
        > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my brother-in-law
        > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
        > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his children.
        > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this
        > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find out how
        > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
        > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
        > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
        > you. Jane
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ladislav Rosival
        Hallo, I think there was a time when when a „y“ was written with with two points over it. It was also common to write a point over the number „1“. On
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 4 2:10 PM
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          Hallo, I think there was a time when when a „y“ was written with with two points over it. It was also common to write a point over the number „1“.



          On the other hand „ij“ can be a valid ending especialy in eastern Slovakia.



          Like in many other things there is no general rule.



          Ladislav





          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaine
          Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 9:30 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Surname "Balashazi", Baptismal term "Hazi" in Jordan River?





          David,

          I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij" (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

          Elaine

          On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, david1law@... <mailto:david1law%40aol.com> wrote:

          > Dear Jane:
          >
          > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
          > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from the
          > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the end
          > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the words
          > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and the
          > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
          > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often been
          > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very common
          > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
          > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI, BALASZHAZI, and
          > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
          >
          > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
          > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the word
          > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called Balásháza
          > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in Romanian.
          >
          >
          > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
          > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
          > (http://www.iabsi.com) ) and BALASHAZ* (with the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
          > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
          > but there may there may be a link to them.
          >
          > I hope that this helps a little.
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > David
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          > jmurray6475@... <mailto:jmurray6475%40yahoo.com> writes:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I would like verification from this community on information I have heard
          > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great grandparents
          > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of the
          > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my brother-in-law
          > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
          > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his children.
          > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this
          > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find out how
          > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
          > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
          > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
          > you. Jane
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • david1law@aol.com
          Dear Elaine: Yes, I have seen the ending ij in various records, and when I just did a search now in the ARCANUM database for B*IJ (* wildcard asterisk), I
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 4 3:17 PM
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            Dear Elaine:

            Yes, I have seen the ending "ij" in various records, and when I just did a
            search now in the ARCANUM database for B*IJ (* wildcard asterisk), I came
            up with 54 instances of this sequence, and these date back in time to at
            least the 12th century (1196), where there was mention of the name "BYSSENIJ"
            which is elsewhere spelled "BYSSENI" and "BYSSENIJ" which is the name for
            the PECHENEGS, a Turkish tribe that came to Hungary in ancient times:

            _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs_
            (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs)

            And in keeping with the earlier theme, of those 54 instances, 13 of those
            were the spelling of the name "BLASIJ" for "BLASII" including a reference to
            Saint Blaise as "SANCTI BLASIJ."

            Throughout my research endeavors for about the past ten years, I have ended
            up having to study up a bit on languages, especially Latin and Greek, as
            well as linguistics. One has to very careful in drawing certain
            conclusions, however, because sometimes, there may be words which are sound the same
            (homophones) and sometimes even spelled the same, but have very different
            meanings. Here is a good article from Wikipedia that gives a pretty good
            description and illustrations:

            _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone_
            (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone)

            I believe that the "IJ" ending probably originated from a mistranscription
            of the original Latin because of bad penmanship and/or a misreading of the
            original Latin, and/or both, etc.

            By the way, the Slavic languages as well as the Hungarian language have
            declensions with different cases (such as nominative, genitive, dative,
            accusative, etc.) where the endings change based on the context of what is being
            written. The Latin and Greek languages also have declensions, and I
            recently found what I believe is the reason why a lot of the Slavic names end in
            the -OV and -OVA. In some cases, it appears to be a Latin
            mistranscription from the Greek letter NU which in its small case looks like a small "v"
            or a "u". In other words, the scribe knew Latin (but did not know Greek)
            and therefore transcribed the ending as "-OV" and "OVA" instead of the Greek
            "-ON" and "ONA" and

            I noticed the pattern in some of the Greek declension tables (see the
            illustration of the Second Declension):

            _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_grammar_(tables_
            (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_grammar_(tables) )


            Best regards,

            David


            In a message dated 3/4/2012 3:30:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            epowell@... writes:




            David,

            I appreciated reading your comments on the "i" "ii" endings on Latin
            records that became "yi" in Hungarian. In some of the Latin records I researched
            for my families in eastern Slovakia, I often came across an ending of "ij"
            (IJ)-- at least that's how I deciphered what looked like a "y" with a dot
            over each prong. Have you seen that variation?

            Elaine

            On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, _david1law@..._ (mailto:david1law@...)
            wrote:

            > Dear Jane:
            >
            > The surname BALASHAZI (BALASHAZAI) essentially means "people/men/family"
            > from Balásháza. Records in Hungary were official written in Latin from
            the
            > beginning of the kingdom of Hungary until 1844-1849, and the "i" at the
            end
            > of the name generally indicates a place of origin. For example, the
            words
            > "Ungarii" and "Ungari" means "people from Hungary" or "Hungarians" and
            the
            > names "Germanii" and "Germani" in Latin mean "people from Germany" or
            > "Germans," etc. Please also be aware that the "ii" or "i" have often
            been
            > transliterated in Hungarian as a "y" or "yi" (these endings are very
            common
            > among Hungarians for the reason stated above), so please be aware that
            > BALASHAZI surname may also be spelled BALASHAZY, BALASZHAZYI,
            BALASZHAZI, and
            > BALASZHAZYI, etc.
            >
            > The root of the name Balásház literally means "Balás's House" from the
            > Hungarian name Balás (originally from the Latin name "Blaze") and the
            word
            > "ház literally means "house" in Hungarian. There is a village called
            Balásháza
            > (also spelled Balászháza) in Romania, which is known as "Blaj" in
            Romanian.
            >
            >
            > I've researched the Latin records in the Hungarian Archives ARCANUM
            > database (accessible through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
            > (_http://www.iabsi.com_ (http://www.iabsi.com/) ) ) and BALASHAZ* (with
            the wildcard asterisk) comes back with
            > 58 results. Whether these are related to your family is another matter,
            > but there may there may be a link to them.
            >
            > I hope that this helps a little.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            > David
            >
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 3/4/2012 2:02:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            > _jmurray6475@..._ (mailto:jmurray6475@...) writes:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I would like verification from this community on information I have
            heard
            > past through the family on the suffix "Hazi". My great, great
            grandparents
            > I was told had the "hazi" added to their last name of Balas because of
            the
            > father was baptized in the Jordan River. I checked with my
            brother-in-law
            > who is from Palestine, and he told me the "hazi" means to immerse into
            > water in his language. The father then can pass this down to his
            children.
            > Can anyone verify this, and have other members of the community had this

            > added to their surname? If this is indeed correct, how would one find
            out how
            > they got to the Jordan River, they are from Vel'aty, Slovakia. Are there
            > ship documents on such journeys made by families?
            > I would like to clear up this matter and set the records straight. Thank
            > you. Jane
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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