Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?

Expand Messages
  • Sue Martin
    Another problem is that people might have had several different names - German, Hungarian, Jewish, and Slovak. These could be completely different, rather than
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 27, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Another problem is that people might have had several different names - German, Hungarian, Jewish, and Slovak. These could be completely different, rather than just a translation of one name into another language.

      Sue

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:56am
      To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?






      I have found the most common research problems encountered by researchers, are first name pronunciations. People looking for Juraj, [Juh-rrahee], (George), find only Gyorgy, Alz~beta, (Elizabeth) [Ahlzh-behta], find Erzsa, Stefan, (Stephan), Istvan....etc.

      ________________________________
      From: Susan Friedhaber-Hard <[mailto:barclaypenn%40yahoo.com] barclaypenn@...>
      To: "[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 7:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?



      FYI:
      Other Uralic languages like Hungarian are: Estonian, and Mansi and Khanty of Western Siberia.

      ________________________________
      From: Sue Martin <[mailto:martin%40skmassociates.net] martin@...>
      To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:58 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?



      Hungarian is Finno-Ugric. Its structure is like Finnish, but the words are completely different. If you learn Turkish, you'll find some resemblances to Hungarian, largely I suspect because of the 500-year rule of the Ottoman Empire that extended to the western boundary of Hungary. Otherwise, it's not like any other language I can think of. My family is Hungarian (although both sides were from what is now Slovakia), and I grew up listening to the language. I love it, but can only speak it a bit.

      Sue

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "Julie Mark" <[mailto:jkmark%40pacbell.net] jkmark@...>
      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:55pm
      To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?

      Thank you Peter! I have started reviewing the church records for my village
      in Slovakia and did notice a change from Latin to Hungarian around the time
      you mention (and then back to latin again). It does seem like a very
      unusual language. I found a couple pages that I couldn't translate any
      words from and I almost wondered if they might be German! Maybe they were.
      I'll check as I go through again - transcribing my family member now to try
      to make some connections. Thanks for the help.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of htcstech
      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:36 PM
      To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?

      Hello Julie,

      Yes, The official church language was always in Latin, but there were edicts
      by the Hungarian government especially after 1848 for church records to be
      written in Hungarian, even moreso after 1867. Not all churches adopted these
      changes at the same time, and some reverted back to Latin, but eventually
      all records were in Hungarian as it became the official language.
      You see, the Hungarians had a love/hate relationship with their Austrian
      masters and because the Magyar language is so unusual, all diplomatic
      correspondences and official government bureaucracy were actually written in
      Latin.
      After the revolution in 1848-49, there was a movement in the Hungarian
      parliament to use Magyar instead. There was a rebirth of vernacular
      literature at this time.
      The Austrians didn't like this as they wanted to stop Hungarian nationalism
      and the Emperor passed a law that the official language in the Empire would
      be German.This made a lot of sense as there were about 16 different
      ethnicities and languages and it was a bureaucratic nightmare.
      By this stage, the Kingdom of Hungary had been subservient to the Austrians
      for 150 years and the Austrians gave in by 1867, allowing the Hungarians to
      govern themselves. That's why there was this push for Magyarization in the
      late 1800's and that's pretty much when church records were consistently
      written in Hungarian.

      Peter M

      On 27 February 2012 08:59, Julie Mark <[mailto:jkmark%40pacbell.net] [mailto:jkmark%40pacbell.net] jkmark@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Thank you for the explanation. So was Hungarian the native tongue of
      > most priests in Slovakia in the 19th century? Lots of my church
      > records are in latin, but I've seen a few in Hungarian.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of htcstech
      > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:55 PM
      > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?
      >
      > Hello All,
      >
      > There are letter sound combinations in Hungarian that just can't be
      > shown in English letters and some non-Hungarian people have great
      > difficulty in pronouncing.
      >
      > MAGYAR, the Hungarian name for Hungarian - has been written by Slavic
      > races as MADAR because they can't say the GY properly. Interestingly
      > MADAR is Hungarian for Bird, so sometimes the Hungarians are called
      > Birds. I think in Slovak, it is written as MAD'AR The GY is sounded
      > like DJ in DJANGO as in DJANGO REINHARDT but it is difficult to find
      > an exact phoneme.
      > So RAJAK, with an almost silent D (as RADJAK) is about as close as you
      > can get.
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > On 27 February 2012 08:42, Sue Martin <[mailto:martin%40skmassociates.net] [mailto:martin%40skmassociates.net] martin@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > That is correct. But the Hungarian pronunciation of 'gy' is more
      > > like
      > 'dy'
      > > with a very soft 'd'.
      > >
      > > Sue
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: "t.salony" <[mailto:t.salony%40yahoo.com] [mailto:t.salony%40yahoo.com] t.salony@...>
      > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 4:41pm
      > > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?
      > >
      > > Sorry, but what am I missing here?
      > >
      > > There isn't any d in "Ragyak".
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > TOM
      > >
      > > --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com]
      > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Martin" <martin@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ragyak is Hungarian. Your great-grandparents pronounced it
      > > > correctly,
      > > but the 'd' is a very soft 'd'. The vowels are pronounced like 'uh'
      > > as in luck.
      > > >
      > > > Sue
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: "jkmark@..." <jkmark@...>
      > > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:53pm
      > > > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com]
      > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [S-R] RAGYAK - how would it have been pronounced?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > my maiden name is Radak - pronounced Ray dack. my great
      > > > grandparents
      > > came here in 1902 and i have heard that they pronounced their name
      > > like Rad yack. In the church records i am going through now, it is
      > > consistently spelled Ragyak over and over again. just wondering if
      > > that had a different pronunciation.
      > > >
      > > > Julie
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > [[http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d [http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo] SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

      To visit your group on the web, go to:
      [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/%5d http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      [[http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d [http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%5d http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo] [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo] SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.