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Latin: Musicus, Occupation// Illegitimate Children Question

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  • Jane Murray
    1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children s baptism records, his death record as Musicus .  Does anyone know what this
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 3, 2012
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      1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children's baptism records, his death record as "Musicus".  Does anyone know what this would possibly mean in reference to present day occupation?  Could it mean a composer, writer, player of instrument, or teacher? The term seems rather loose.  

      2) I have found five recorded baptisms for my gg-aunt that show all the children as illegitimate.  They were baptized in the Catholic church, and her sister and brother -in-law are listed as sponsors/godparents.  I would hate to think she conceived five children out of wedlock and ran fast and loose;  would anyone know if the absent father could be of another religion and the Catholic Church would not recognize the validity of the marriage and consider the children illegitimate?

      I will leave it to the community of research experts to generate their thoughts on this.  Thanks, Jane

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William C. Wormuth
      Jane, Musicus is musician and professionals did exist.  You will never know the reason for your aunt having 5 Illegitimate children.  I do NOT believe the
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 3, 2012
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        Jane,
        Musicus is musician and professionals did exist.  You will never know the reason for your aunt having 5 Illegitimate children.  I do NOT believe the reason being the father was not RC.  I don't know what last names were used as the children grew up but I do know mothers who named the children the father's last name. In my experience, this occurred during the 1940's and continues, (in my grandmother's area)  

        Now the young people are "modern", just like here in the USA.  They live with their partners without marrying....etc.

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo





        ________________________________
        From: Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...>
        To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 7:26 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Latin: Musicus, Occupation// Illegitimate Children Question


         
        1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children's baptism records, his death record as "Musicus".  Does anyone know what this would possibly mean in reference to present day occupation?  Could it mean a composer, writer, player of instrument, or teacher? The term seems rather loose.  

        2) I have found five recorded baptisms for my gg-aunt that show all the children as illegitimate.  They were baptized in the Catholic church, and her sister and brother -in-law are listed as sponsors/godparents.  I would hate to think she conceived five children out of wedlock and ran fast and loose;  would anyone know if the absent father could be of another religion and the Catholic Church would not recognize the validity of the marriage and consider the children illegitimate?

        I will leave it to the community of research experts to generate their thoughts on this.  Thanks, Jane

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carl
        Jane, I have similar situation of illegitimate children in one of my family lines. The father and mother are both listed on the baptism records for all three
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 3, 2012
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          Jane,
          I have similar situation of illegitimate children in one of my family lines. The father and mother are both listed on the baptism records for all three of their children. But in every case the children were listed as illegitimate. The mother was previously married and had several children during this marriage. But when her husband died, she began a new family with a man with the same surname as her deceased husband. However, I can find no relationship between the men. There are church records on the 1st man and his family but nothing on the second man except his death record. I have never found anything to suggest there was a second marriage. Just another one of those family mysteries.
          Carl

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...> wrote:
          >
          > 1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children's baptism records, his death record as "Musicus".  Does anyone know what this would possibly mean in reference to present day occupation?  Could it mean a composer, writer, player of instrument, or teacher? The term seems rather loose.  
          >
          > 2) I have found five recorded baptisms for my gg-aunt that show all the children as illegitimate.  They were baptized in the Catholic church, and her sister and brother -in-law are listed as sponsors/godparents.  I would hate to think she conceived five children out of wedlock and ran fast and loose;  would anyone know if the absent father could be of another religion and the Catholic Church would not recognize the validity of the marriage and consider the children illegitimate?
          >
          > I will leave it to the community of research experts to generate their thoughts on this.  Thanks, Jane
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Jane Murray
          Thank you, then my great, great grandfather would be very proud. One of his grandsons (current) plays in an Orchestra, and another was a Vaudeville performer
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 3, 2012
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            Thank you, then my great, great grandfather would be very proud. One of his grandsons (current) plays in an Orchestra, and another was a Vaudeville performer in the late 30's and went onto a career in singing and broadcasting. One granddaughter, my niece plays two instruments, and has a voice like a lark.  My father had a beautiful voice.  Nice to know the genes pass down.

            As for the great, great aunt...very unfortunate; five children, no spouse.  She died with her female child in childbirth; left three boys without a mother and no known father of record.

            This community is so informative, thanks again.

            Jane


            ________________________________
            From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
            To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 7:54 AM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Latin: Musicus, Occupation// Illegitimate Children Question


             
            Jane,
            Musicus is musician and professionals did exist.  You will never know the reason for your aunt having 5 Illegitimate children.  I do NOT believe the reason being the father was not RC.  I don't know what last names were used as the children grew up but I do know mothers who named the children the father's last name. In my experience, this occurred during the 1940's and continues, (in my grandmother's area)  

            Now the young people are "modern", just like here in the USA.  They live with their partners without marrying....etc.

            Z Bohom,

            Vilo

            ________________________________
            From: Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...>
            To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 7:26 AM
            Subject: [S-R] Latin: Musicus, Occupation// Illegitimate Children Question


             
            1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children's baptism records, his death record as "Musicus".  Does anyone know what this would possibly mean in reference to present day occupation?  Could it mean a composer, writer, player of instrument, or teacher? The term seems rather loose.  

            2) I have found five recorded baptisms for my gg-aunt that show all the children as illegitimate.  They were baptized in the Catholic church, and her sister and brother -in-law are listed as sponsors/godparents.  I would hate to think she conceived five children out of wedlock and ran fast and loose;  would anyone know if the absent father could be of another religion and the Catholic Church would not recognize the validity of the marriage and consider the children illegitimate?

            I will leave it to the community of research experts to generate their thoughts on this.  Thanks, Jane

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jane Murray
            Dear Carl, In several Catholic church records it will be written in Latin exillegitmo thoro which translated means, sleeping in an unlawful bed .  At least
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 3, 2012
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              Dear Carl,

              In several Catholic church records it will be written in Latin "exillegitmo thoro" which translated means, "sleeping in an unlawful bed".  At least in your case a father was listed, in mine...no fathers name for all five children. Good luck with your research.

              Jane 


              ________________________________
              From: Carl <kotlarchik@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:41 PM
              Subject: [S-R] Re: Latin: Musicus, Occupation// Illegitimate Children Question


               
              Jane,
              I have similar situation of illegitimate children in one of my family lines. The father and mother are both listed on the baptism records for all three of their children. But in every case the children were listed as illegitimate. The mother was previously married and had several children during this marriage. But when her husband died, she began a new family with a man with the same surname as her deceased husband. However, I can find no relationship between the men. There are church records on the 1st man and his family but nothing on the second man except his death record. I have never found anything to suggest there was a second marriage. Just another one of those family mysteries.
              Carl

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...> wrote:
              >
              > 1) GGgrandfathers occupation is listed in Latin on several of his children's baptism records, his death record as "Musicus".  Does anyone know what this would possibly mean in reference to present day occupation?  Could it mean a composer, writer, player of instrument, or teacher? The term seems rather loose.  
              >
              > 2) I have found five recorded baptisms for my gg-aunt that show all the children as illegitimate.  They were baptized in the Catholic church, and her sister and brother -in-law are listed as sponsors/godparents.  I would hate to think she conceived five children out of wedlock and ran fast and loose;  would anyone know if the absent father could be of another religion and the Catholic Church would not recognize the validity of the marriage and consider the children illegitimate?
              >
              > I will leave it to the community of research experts to generate their thoughts on this.  Thanks, Jane
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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