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Re: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian

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  • Sue Martin
    Not so easy. My maiden name, and the primary name I am tracking, is Orowan or Orovan. Other family names tend to be Germanic: Bluh, Better, Engel, Kugel,
    Message 1 of 50 , Feb 2, 2012
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      Not so easy. My maiden name, and the primary name I am tracking, is Orowan or Orovan. Other family names tend to be Germanic: Bluh, Better, Engel, Kugel, Marer, Spitzer, Weiner, Wilhelm, etc. Out of 800 people in my family tree, the only names that seem to be more Slovak are one Hladilova, one Kopecky, and one Yudowits. Everything else looks either Germanic or Hungarian.

      Sue



      -----Original Message-----
      From: "Caye Caswick" <ccaswick@...>
      Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:23am
      To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian







      Same here -- the current family claims to be Slovak -- but since Hungary was controlling back then, they forced the children to learn/speak Hungarian. Sue, what are your surnames -- it's pretty obvious (normally) which nationality, if we know your surnames.



      Caye


      ________________________________
      From: Nick Kerpchar <[mailto:ccknk%40yahoo.com] ccknk@...>
      To: "[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <[mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 8:39 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian


      Hi Sue,
      That's a great question. Allow me to share what I found when tracing my maternal and paternal
      grandparents who may respectively be termed, Lemko and Carpatho-Rusyn. My maternal grandfather
      was from Galacia (present day Poland) and on his immigration documents and U.S. Census he said he
      was "Austrian." My paternal grandparents came from Saros County, Hungary (during the time of the
      Austro-Hungarian Empire) and both stated they were Hungarian on their documents. I do not know
      if they had any kind of passports back then or even "traveling papers."

      And to make things more interesting, all of them claimed that their native language was Russian although
      I suspect that in the case of my paternal grandparents they may have said, "Rusyn" but was interpreted
      as "Russian."

      What an interesting question you have raised. I will definitely follow your thread to see what others have
      to say on the topic. Thanks for raising the question.
      Nick

      ________________________________
      From: Sue Martin <[mailto:martin%40skmassociates.net] martin@...>
      To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:52 AM
      Subject: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian



      This is an interesting conversation.

      Until last year, I thought my family was entirely Hungarian. Then I started exploring the genealogy, and learned that on both sides, my family is actually from the part of Hungary that is now Slovakia (mostly Trencin county). And we're Jewish.

      Both my father's and my mother's families spoke only Hungarian (and German, of course). One of my great-grandmothers spoke Slovak as her mother tongue, but she's the only one I'm aware of. My living relatives are scattered all over the world, with only a few in Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic.

      When I was a teenager, a celebratory dinner with the family was fun - four languages going at the same time (Hungarian, German, French and English).

      So, am I Hungarian or Slovak? or neither?

      Sue

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "htcstech" <[mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com] htcstech@...>
      Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 12:49am
      To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: JANKANICS - Death Record

      Hello William,

      This link:
      [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12326-109802-12?cc=1554443&wc=12756725] https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12326-109802-12?cc=1554443&wc=12756725

      The last 'observation' column on item 22

      Currently, I have sent this to my mother as well as my attempt at a
      transcription of the lettering.

      I have had no Hungarian schooling. I was 18 months old when my parents
      escaped during the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Since then I have had very
      little contact with other Hungarians. My father was Moravian, born near
      Galanta and spoke Slovak and Magyar. I speak Hungarian with my mother as
      well as English. My Hungarian is good enough to get by. I can read it well
      enough for basic information, but it gives me a headache.
      I fully understand exactly what you are saying and the difficulties that
      Slovakian peoples had, and the present experiences of ethnic Magyars in
      Southern Slovakia. It is a bad situation.
      Personally I am overjoyed finding this group and my heritage. I am very
      grateful to eveyone and it has opened my eyes to a new world.

      Regards

      Peter.

      On 2 February 2012 16:31, William C. Wormuth <[mailto:senzus%40ymail.com] senzus@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > I am Lost! What exactly are you translating. Why is there information
      > concerning Barn and stables, in Church records?? I assumed you were
      > thinking the writer was giving the cause of death which is very unusual. I
      > am not a professional but have helped many people in their searches. My
      > Slovak is a western, Zahorak dialect and I learned the Hungarian alphabet
      > pronunciation from my Grandfather.
      >
      > During Hungarian rule, children had little or no schooling and school
      > language was Hungarian. The reading and writing of Slovak was done at home
      > and in many villages, teachers came to homes where groups of young people
      > gathered for learning. If caught they were beaten and jailed. Priests
      > were an important part of their lives, as they were the only formally
      > educated people in villages and were the Slovak, "doctor, lawyer and indian
      > chief."
      > Illegible writing could be due to the priest being very old and shaky.
      > The majority of records I have researched have been very legible and
      > written in Latin although names were in Hungarian, (Istvan, Erzsa, Janos,
      > Mihaly,....etc. Some of the writing was as beautiful as a painting.
      >
      > Can you imagine how it would be if you were forced to speak only Urdu and
      > Finish, while secretly preserving your mother tongue, which if spoken on
      > the street could end in your imprisonment. they were allowed, by law, to
      > speak Hungarian or German. I have always been amazed, (and proud), that
      > our people, maintained our language and culture for over 1,000 years.
      >
      >
      > My Grandfather, spoke read and wrote: Two types of German, ("High and
      > Low"), Hungarian, Slovak, Czech and English. To the "pure Americans",
      > here, he was referred to as a "Dumb Round-head", (term used here for Slovak
      > immigrants.
      >
      > Z Bohom,
      >
      > Vilo
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: htcstech <[mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com] htcstech@...>
      > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:24 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: JANKANICS - Death Record
      >
      >
      > Linda and William,
      >
      > What would bile have to do with barn/shed? First line partially reads
      > 'leven csuro es istalloja' meaning 'removing his barn or shed and stables,
      > or removing the connected barn and stable' -
      > Line 2 can mean 'Every brand and life' or every brand or mark of
      > regulation'
      > Now the last word 'megegett' means burnt.
      >
      > You can see how weird it sounds, although it could be a lot of flowery
      > similies and metaphors, but why would a scribe go to that length?
      > Like: He had a lot of guts and followed the law to the letter which was
      > burned into him. He returned from Giralton as I heard the story as related
      > to me, that he was singing, had a stroke and died immediately.
      >
      > And I see szelutes and not salutes. Szelutes is a stroke.
      >
      > Re-reading it again makes me even more doubtful. I think it needs to be
      > translated with someone who understands the phrasing of early 19th century
      > Hungarian, possibly a dialect. Although the writing isn't the best, it is
      > decipherable.
      > The combination of words and their apparent meanings don't make sense to
      > me. Find an old Hungarian :)
      >
      > I tried again just now and came up with the following paying particular
      > attention to the punctuation:
      > The story being that he was singing(?), followed by stroke and he died
      > immediately.
      > Halfway along the 5th Line:
      > Azonal meghalt=Died immediately. (full stop)
      > Hideg-Kereszteny; (semi-colon) followed by a dash - Hideg Kereszteny looks
      > like a place name, otherwise it means Cold Christian(ity).
      > Breuer jarobeli orvos = Breuer, the travelling or serving or duty doctor
      > altal megvizsgallatott = the recommended, inspected the body.
      > I'm pretty sure that the scribe made spelling errors or used a local
      > dialect.
      >
      > Hopefully you'll get a better translation :)
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > On 2 February 2012 12:28, creativelr <[mailto:CreativeLR%40aol.com] CreativeLR@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > This is getting interesting (grin). Thanks William! I think as a group we
      > > are cracking this code. If not, I have the makings of a very interesting
      > > story. I sure wish priests/scribes were required to have neat
      > handwriting,
      > > but I don't think they kept these records to be perused by the common
      > > man/woman, especially over a century later!
      > >
      > > Linda
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > epesjefen = bile salts = bile acid
      > > > salutes = greetings
      > > > keres egy keresztny = looking for a christian
      >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >

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      ------------------------------------

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    • helene cincebeaux
      Hi Elaine - only your listing but I have 2 for Drabischak - contact me directly for info. Great year so far - hope the same for you! My husband is home after
      Message 50 of 50 , Feb 8, 2012
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        Hi Elaine - only your listing but I have 2 for Drabischak - contact me directly for info.
        Great year so far - hope the same for you! My husband is home after 3 months in hospital and nursing home and doing great - a miracle!
         
        helene
        helenezx@...

        --- On Tue, 2/7/12, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:


        From: Elaine <epowell@...>
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Pride Database
        To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 9:31 PM



         



        Helene, I couldn't open it either.

        Could you tell me if you have any Drabcsak (Hungarian spelling from the 1869 census) in your database please? That was my gggrandmother's family name from Ujpechfalu, but I couldn't find her in the records.

        Hope you're having a good new year!

        Elaine

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Feb 7, 2012, at 6:59 PM, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi Frank - just checked it seemed fine - but we will be updating this month and adding several thousand new surnames and villages - now up to 30,781 listings!
        >
        > helene
        >
        > --- On Sun, 2/5/12, Frank R Plichta <frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Frank R Plichta <frank.r.plichta@...>
        > Subject: [S-R] Slovak-Roots Gentle Guidelines
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 6:36 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > The URL link for the database of surnames:
        > http://slovakpride.homestead.com/, produces a "page not found" error.
        >
        > Frank
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Ron
        > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:15 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian
        >
        > Slovak-Roots Gentle Guidelines
        > This is an occasional reminder of the general guidelines we use to keep the
        > discussion on-topic, civil and engaging.
        > * Post your surnames and village names in CAPITAL LETTERS. This makes them
        > "jump out" to others.
        > * Always include a relevant topic, village or surname in the message
        > subject.
        > * Create a new message subject to keep your question focused. "Hijacking" an
        > existing message by changing the subject is a sure way to get your message
        > lost.
        > * We stick to genealogy topics only. The Yahoo group "Slovak World"
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World and Delphi Forum
        > http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/ are great place to discuss
        > current events, recipes and other general interests.
        > * Instructions on changing your email subscription are found at the bottom
        > of each posted message.
        > * We are primarily a mail-list, but have a web site with other useful
        > features. You must have Yahoo ID to use its full features such as posting
        > files and photos. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
        > o Search - Use the website to search 23,000 previous messages.
        > o Database - A database of surnames with researcher contacts is available.
        > It's not as robust as Helene's list http://slovakpride.homestead.com/, but
        > it's been around for about 8 years. Worth a look.
        > o Feel free to post to the web site a document or photo scan for group
        > discussion
        > o If you need help with handwriting and are posting a scan, be sure to
        > include enough of the surrounding page that we can compare the item of
        > interest with other handwriting on the page.
        > * Feel free to make suggestions and provide sources of information. While
        > members may seem "expert" there is always something new for everyone to
        > learn!
        > * Ask your question, no matter how simple or fundamental it may seem. While
        > we have nearly 1,000 members, there is always an influx of new member and
        > repeating an old topic is always helpful.
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Your Moderators
        >
        > Updated 30 April 2010
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

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