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Re: [S-R] Re: JANKANICS - Death Record

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  • htcstech
    Hello All, I ve just received a reply from my mother. She says that Ladislav s translation is mostly correct. The text appears to be a dialect and resultant
    Message 1 of 50 , Feb 2, 2012
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      Hello All,

      I've just received a reply from my mother.
      She says that Ladislav's translation is mostly correct. The text appears to
      be a dialect and resultant alternative spelling based on phonetics of the
      dialect.
      The missing words are 'lereszek' = drunk (le-reszeg) and 'daludvan' =
      singing.(daludo)
      Meaning that after hearing the bad news that his barn and stable burnt down
      and all his animals died, that he got 'singing drunk' a phrase my mother
      assures me means very drunk, suffered a stroke and died.
      She has no idea what 'Hideg Kereszteny" refers to.

      Peter

      On 3 February 2012 05:54, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Ladislav,
      >
      > Wonderful translation.
      >
      > "Hideg Kereszteny" probably means the dead body, but isn't the priest
      > using the flowery term "departed Christian".
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > > My reading:
      > >
      > > Eperjesen l�v�n, cs�re s ist�l�ja min-
      > > den marh�val s �lattal meg�get visza
      > > j�vet Gir�lton ezen szomor� h�r hallv�n,
      > > anyira ler�szeledet hogy ?daludv�n? -
      > > sz�l�t�s k�vetkezt�ben azonnal meghalt.
      > > Hideg Kereszt�ny:- Brener j�resbeli (the name colud also be Breuer)
      > > orvos �ltal megvizsg�ltatam
      > >
      > > In the time he was in Eperjes (Presov), his barn and stall (stable)
      > > with all the cows and animals were destroyed by fire comming
      > > back to Giralt, hearing this sad new
      > > he was so ?????(sad) that ????(on a location perhaps should be "on his
      > > barnyard", or time "afternoon")
      > > in consequence of apoplectic stroke he immediatly died.
      > > I ordered an examination of the dead body
      > > by the the county-doctor Brener.
      > >
      > > Hideg Kereszt�ny = dead body is only my assumption - I never heard about
      > it,
      > > but this is the only logical translation for me.
      > >
      > > Ladislav
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
      > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
      > > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 6:50 AM
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: JANKANICS - Death Record
      > > >
      > > > Hello William,
      > > >
      > > > This link:
      > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12326-109802-
      > > > 12?cc=1554443&wc=12756725
      > > >
      > > > The last 'observation' column on item 22
      > > >
      > > > Currently, I have sent this to my mother as well as my attempt at a
      > > > transcription of the lettering.
      > > >
      > > > I have had no Hungarian schooling. I was 18 months old when my parents
      > > > escaped during the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Since then I have had
      > > > very
      > > > little contact with other Hungarians. My father was Moravian, born near
      > > > Galanta and spoke Slovak and Magyar. I speak Hungarian with my mother
      > > > as
      > > > well as English. My Hungarian is good enough to get by. I can read it
      > > > well
      > > > enough for basic information, but it gives me a headache.
      > > > I fully understand exactly what you are saying and the difficulties
      > > > that
      > > > Slovakian peoples had, and the present experiences of ethnic Magyars in
      > > > Southern Slovakia. It is a bad situation.
      > > > Personally I am overjoyed finding this group and my heritage. I am very
      > > > grateful to eveyone and it has opened my eyes to a new world.
      > > >
      > > > Regards
      > > >
      > > > Peter.
      > > >
      > > > On 2 February 2012 16:31, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I am Lost! What exactly are you translating. Why is there
      > > > information
      > > > > concerning Barn and stables, in Church records?? I assumed you were
      > > > > thinking the writer was giving the cause of death which is very
      > > > unusual. I
      > > > > am not a professional but have helped many people in their searches.
      > > > My
      > > > > Slovak is a western, Zahorak dialect and I learned the Hungarian
      > > > alphabet
      > > > > pronunciation from my Grandfather.
      > > > >
      > > > > During Hungarian rule, children had little or no schooling and school
      > > > > language was Hungarian. The reading and writing of Slovak was done
      > > > at home
      > > > > and in many villages, teachers came to homes where groups of young
      > > > people
      > > > > gathered for learning. If caught they were beaten and jailed.
      > > > Priests
      > > > > were an important part of their lives, as they were the only formally
      > > > > educated people in villages and were the Slovak, "doctor, lawyer and
      > > > indian
      > > > > chief."
      > > > > Illegible writing could be due to the priest being very old and
      > > > shaky.
      > > > > The majority of records I have researched have been very legible and
      > > > > written in Latin although names were in Hungarian, (Istvan, Erzsa,
      > > > Janos,
      > > > > Mihaly,....etc. Some of the writing was as beautiful as a painting.
      > > > >
      > > > > Can you imagine how it would be if you were forced to speak only Urdu
      > > > and
      > > > > Finish, while secretly preserving your mother tongue, which if spoken
      > > > on
      > > > > the street could end in your imprisonment. they were allowed, by
      > > > law, to
      > > > > speak Hungarian or German. I have always been amazed, (and proud),
      > > > that
      > > > > our people, maintained our language and culture for over 1,000
      > > > years.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > My Grandfather, spoke read and wrote: Two types of German, ("High
      > > > and
      > > > > Low"), Hungarian, Slovak, Czech and English. To the "pure
      > > > Americans",
      > > > > here, he was referred to as a "Dumb Round-head", (term used here for
      > > > Slovak
      > > > > immigrants.
      > > > >
      > > > > Z Bohom,
      > > > >
      > > > > Vilo
      > > > >
      > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
      >
      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:24 PM
      > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: JANKANICS - Death Record
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Linda and William,
      > > > >
      > > > > What would bile have to do with barn/shed? First line partially reads
      > > > > 'leven csuro es istalloja' meaning 'removing his barn or shed and
      > > > stables,
      > > > > or removing the connected barn and stable' -
      > > > > Line 2 can mean 'Every brand and life' or every brand or mark of
      > > > > regulation'
      > > > > Now the last word 'megegett' means burnt.
      > > > >
      > > > > You can see how weird it sounds, although it could be a lot of
      > > > flowery
      > > > > similies and metaphors, but why would a scribe go to that length?
      > > > > Like: He had a lot of guts and followed the law to the letter which
      > > > was
      > > > > burned into him. He returned from Giralton as I heard the story as
      > > > related
      > > > > to me, that he was singing, had a stroke and died immediately.
      > > > >
      > > > > And I see szelutes and not salutes. Szelutes is a stroke.
      > > > >
      > > > > Re-reading it again makes me even more doubtful. I think it needs to
      > > > be
      > > > > translated with someone who understands the phrasing of early 19th
      > > > century
      > > > > Hungarian, possibly a dialect. Although the writing isn't the best,
      > > > it is
      > > > > decipherable.
      > > > > The combination of words and their apparent meanings don't make sense
      > > > to
      > > > > me. Find an old Hungarian :)
      > > > >
      > > > > I tried again just now and came up with the following paying
      > > > particular
      > > > > attention to the punctuation:
      > > > > The story being that he was singing(?), followed by stroke and he
      > > > died
      > > > > immediately.
      > > > > Halfway along the 5th Line:
      > > > > Azonal meghalt=Died immediately. (full stop)
      > > > > Hideg-Kereszteny; (semi-colon) followed by a dash - Hideg Kereszteny
      > > > looks
      > > > > like a place name, otherwise it means Cold Christian(ity).
      > > > > Breuer jarobeli orvos = Breuer, the travelling or serving or duty
      > > > doctor
      > > > > altal megvizsgallatott = the recommended, inspected the body.
      > > > > I'm pretty sure that the scribe made spelling errors or used a local
      > > > > dialect.
      > > > >
      > > > > Hopefully you'll get a better translation :)
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter
      > > > >
      > > > > On 2 February 2012 12:28, creativelr <CreativeLR@...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > This is getting interesting (grin). Thanks William! I think as a
      > > > group we
      > > > > > are cracking this code. If not, I have the makings of a very
      > > > interesting
      > > > > > story. I sure wish priests/scribes were required to have neat
      > > > > handwriting,
      > > > > > but I don't think they kept these records to be perused by the
      > > > common
      > > > > > man/woman, especially over a century later!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Linda
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth"
      > > > <senzus@>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > epesjefen = bile salts = bile acid
      > > > > > > salutes = greetings
      > > > > > > keres egy kereszt�ny = looking for a christian
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      > > > >
      > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      > > > >
      > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
      > > > to
      > > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
      >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      > > >
      > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
      > > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • helene cincebeaux
      Hi Elaine - only your listing but I have 2 for Drabischak - contact me directly for info. Great year so far - hope the same for you! My husband is home after
      Message 50 of 50 , Feb 8, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Elaine - only your listing but I have 2 for Drabischak - contact me directly for info.
        Great year so far - hope the same for you! My husband is home after 3 months in hospital and nursing home and doing great - a miracle!
         
        helene
        helenezx@...

        --- On Tue, 2/7/12, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:


        From: Elaine <epowell@...>
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Pride Database
        To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 9:31 PM



         



        Helene, I couldn't open it either.

        Could you tell me if you have any Drabcsak (Hungarian spelling from the 1869 census) in your database please? That was my gggrandmother's family name from Ujpechfalu, but I couldn't find her in the records.

        Hope you're having a good new year!

        Elaine

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Feb 7, 2012, at 6:59 PM, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi Frank - just checked it seemed fine - but we will be updating this month and adding several thousand new surnames and villages - now up to 30,781 listings!
        >
        > helene
        >
        > --- On Sun, 2/5/12, Frank R Plichta <frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Frank R Plichta <frank.r.plichta@...>
        > Subject: [S-R] Slovak-Roots Gentle Guidelines
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 6:36 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > The URL link for the database of surnames:
        > http://slovakpride.homestead.com/, produces a "page not found" error.
        >
        > Frank
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Ron
        > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:15 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak or Hungarian
        >
        > Slovak-Roots Gentle Guidelines
        > This is an occasional reminder of the general guidelines we use to keep the
        > discussion on-topic, civil and engaging.
        > * Post your surnames and village names in CAPITAL LETTERS. This makes them
        > "jump out" to others.
        > * Always include a relevant topic, village or surname in the message
        > subject.
        > * Create a new message subject to keep your question focused. "Hijacking" an
        > existing message by changing the subject is a sure way to get your message
        > lost.
        > * We stick to genealogy topics only. The Yahoo group "Slovak World"
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World and Delphi Forum
        > http://forums.delphiforums.com/iarelative/ are great place to discuss
        > current events, recipes and other general interests.
        > * Instructions on changing your email subscription are found at the bottom
        > of each posted message.
        > * We are primarily a mail-list, but have a web site with other useful
        > features. You must have Yahoo ID to use its full features such as posting
        > files and photos. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
        > o Search - Use the website to search 23,000 previous messages.
        > o Database - A database of surnames with researcher contacts is available.
        > It's not as robust as Helene's list http://slovakpride.homestead.com/, but
        > it's been around for about 8 years. Worth a look.
        > o Feel free to post to the web site a document or photo scan for group
        > discussion
        > o If you need help with handwriting and are posting a scan, be sure to
        > include enough of the surrounding page that we can compare the item of
        > interest with other handwriting on the page.
        > * Feel free to make suggestions and provide sources of information. While
        > members may seem "expert" there is always something new for everyone to
        > learn!
        > * Ask your question, no matter how simple or fundamental it may seem. While
        > we have nearly 1,000 members, there is always an influx of new member and
        > repeating an old topic is always helpful.
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Your Moderators
        >
        > Updated 30 April 2010
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

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