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Re: determining whether a record is your ancestor... or not

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  • deeellessbee
    Well, I seem to back in the same boat. I did not find a marriage record. Unless they are elsewhere out of order (did not look through every image yet - still
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 6, 2012
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      Well, I seem to back in the same boat. I did not find a marriage record. Unless they are elsewhere out of order (did not look through every image yet - still looking) the marriage records go up to 1852; I think the marriage I want is around 1855-56. However, I did find a possible birth record for the bride, Maria Havrilla (luckily not in cyrillic!). But once again, I don't know her parents' names, so I'm back to the question of how I determine if this record is my ancestor...

      Debbie

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sigh. That dull thud you hear is me banging my head against my desk. I do believe many of these Celovce records are in Cyrillic...
      >
      > Oh well, I guess I need to do a bit of research to figure out how to read these records. Between that and picking out names hopefully I'll find what I need!
      >
      > Debbie
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Ah, thank you Curt! That was going to be my next question - where are the GC records for Plechotice! I will definitely look, but I'm not too hopeful. The majority of marriage records I've found for my family do not have parents' names, but it's certainly worth a try.
      > >
      > > So I'm guessing that is my only way to confirm the birth record?
      > >
      > > Debbie
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Debbie,
      > > > In the nineteenth century, slightly more than one third of the population of Plechotice was Greek Catholic. Greek Catholics of Plechotice and their births, marriages, and deaths are recorded in the Greek Catholic records of the neighboring village of Celovce, which are also online.
      > > >
      > > > Be sure to check these records for lots of information about Plechotice, and possibly the marriage you are looking for. With luck, that will give you his parents names.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I have a question regarding a record I found. I recently obtained my great-grandfather Andrew's death certificate, which gave me the name of his parents, with his father named as Joseph Luchansky. I sent for the films and found Andrew's birth record, and looking back through the records of the town (Plechotice) I found a birth record (as well as a death record) for a Joseph Luchansky. However, how do I tell if this birth record is the right Joseph Luchansky? (The death record has his wife's name so it is indeed him).
      > > > >
      > > > > The age seems about right (he was born in 1835 and my Joe's first child was born in 1857). Also, the death record for Joseph (who IS my Joseph) shows him dying in 1873 at the age of 35 from cholera (which puts his age off by three years from the birth record, but that's still reasonable). But since I don't know Joseph's parents' names, how can I be sure it is him? I don't see any other Joseph Luchansky in the records, which go from 1825 to about 1880.
      > > > >
      > > > > I did not see a marriage record for Joseph and his wife Maria Havrilova/Havrilla; I'm thinking perhaps she was from another village and perhaps the marriage record is there? (The only Havrillas I see in the town are 2 women (perhaps her sisters?), named as the mothers in birth/baptism records, who I assume were also from another town and have married men from Plechotice). Maria is also Greek Catholic and Joseph is RC, but I believe they would have been married in a RC church, correct? (bride's town, groom's church/religion?) So I can try to find her village, get the records and look for a marriage record - although not all marriage records give the parents' names anyway.
      > > > >
      > > > > So, thoughts? Is there a way that I can confirm this record as my Joseph (besides trying to find a marriage record)? I appreciate any suggestions or thoughts on this.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you!
      > > > > Debbie
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • CurtB
      Debbie, Do read through the entire register to see what you can find, there may be more marriages stuck somewhere else. If you have a specific thing you want,
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 6, 2012
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        Debbie,
        Do read through the entire register to see what you can find, there may be more marriages stuck somewhere else. If you have a specific thing you want, I can read the Cyrillic, just give me a page and/or line reference.

        Also, sometimes in genealogy we cannot find demonstrative proof, just certitude from negative evidence. If you find no other person with such a name in the entire register for that generation, you may reasonably conclude it is your ancestor. Especially in this case where you already know the name of the parent of this person. Like any historian, a genealogist should document sources and argue to conclusions, but admitting when they are tentative

        Curt B..



        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well, I seem to back in the same boat. I did not find a marriage record. Unless they are elsewhere out of order (did not look through every image yet - still looking) the marriage records go up to 1852; I think the marriage I want is around 1855-56. However, I did find a possible birth record for the bride, Maria Havrilla (luckily not in cyrillic!). But once again, I don't know her parents' names, so I'm back to the question of how I determine if this record is my ancestor...
        >
        > Debbie
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sigh. That dull thud you hear is me banging my head against my desk. I do believe many of these Celovce records are in Cyrillic...
        > >
        > > Oh well, I guess I need to do a bit of research to figure out how to read these records. Between that and picking out names hopefully I'll find what I need!
        > >
        > > Debbie
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Ah, thank you Curt! That was going to be my next question - where are the GC records for Plechotice! I will definitely look, but I'm not too hopeful. The majority of marriage records I've found for my family do not have parents' names, but it's certainly worth a try.
        > > >
        > > > So I'm guessing that is my only way to confirm the birth record?
        > > >
        > > > Debbie
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Debbie,
        > > > > In the nineteenth century, slightly more than one third of the population of Plechotice was Greek Catholic. Greek Catholics of Plechotice and their births, marriages, and deaths are recorded in the Greek Catholic records of the neighboring village of Celovce, which are also online.
        > > > >
        > > > > Be sure to check these records for lots of information about Plechotice, and possibly the marriage you are looking for. With luck, that will give you his parents names.
        > > > >
        > > > > Curt B.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I have a question regarding a record I found. I recently obtained my great-grandfather Andrew's death certificate, which gave me the name of his parents, with his father named as Joseph Luchansky. I sent for the films and found Andrew's birth record, and looking back through the records of the town (Plechotice) I found a birth record (as well as a death record) for a Joseph Luchansky. However, how do I tell if this birth record is the right Joseph Luchansky? (The death record has his wife's name so it is indeed him).
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The age seems about right (he was born in 1835 and my Joe's first child was born in 1857). Also, the death record for Joseph (who IS my Joseph) shows him dying in 1873 at the age of 35 from cholera (which puts his age off by three years from the birth record, but that's still reasonable). But since I don't know Joseph's parents' names, how can I be sure it is him? I don't see any other Joseph Luchansky in the records, which go from 1825 to about 1880.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I did not see a marriage record for Joseph and his wife Maria Havrilova/Havrilla; I'm thinking perhaps she was from another village and perhaps the marriage record is there? (The only Havrillas I see in the town are 2 women (perhaps her sisters?), named as the mothers in birth/baptism records, who I assume were also from another town and have married men from Plechotice). Maria is also Greek Catholic and Joseph is RC, but I believe they would have been married in a RC church, correct? (bride's town, groom's church/religion?) So I can try to find her village, get the records and look for a marriage record - although not all marriage records give the parents' names anyway.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > So, thoughts? Is there a way that I can confirm this record as my Joseph (besides trying to find a marriage record)? I appreciate any suggestions or thoughts on this.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Thank you!
        > > > > > Debbie
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • John
        ... The 1869 Hungarian Census for Plechotice is available on film and will likely help you immensely.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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          >>> So, thoughts? Is there a way that I can confirm this record as my Joseph (besides trying to find a marriage record)? <<<

          The 1869 Hungarian Census for Plechotice is available on film and will likely help you immensely.
        • deeellessbee
          Curt, that s the problem - I DON T know the parents names, so I am guessing as to whether these are the right folks. I ll keep looking of course, and thank
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 7, 2012
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            Curt, that's the problem - I DON'T know the parents names, so I am guessing as to whether these are the right folks. I'll keep looking of course, and thank you for the offer of help with Cyrillic. I truly appreciate that!

            Your second paragraph is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, and was hoping to get more of it from more folks here. I know we all reach a certain point where we can't be 100% sure of a record or of an ancestor, but I was looking for guidance as to what criteria to use to help decide. Especially because if you decide a person IS your ancestor, you use that person to base all further research on, so you could conceivably have an entire line wrong if you get one person wrong!

            John thanks for the suggestion of the census. I'll look into that also.

            Thanks,
            Debbie

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
            >
            > Debbie,
            > Do read through the entire register to see what you can find, there may be more marriages stuck somewhere else. If you have a specific thing you want, I can read the Cyrillic, just give me a page and/or line reference.
            >
            > Also, sometimes in genealogy we cannot find demonstrative proof, just certitude from negative evidence. If you find no other person with such a name in the entire register for that generation, you may reasonably conclude it is your ancestor. Especially in this case where you already know the name of the parent of this person. Like any historian, a genealogist should document sources and argue to conclusions, but admitting when they are tentative
            >
            > Curt B..
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Well, I seem to back in the same boat. I did not find a marriage record. Unless they are elsewhere out of order (did not look through every image yet - still looking) the marriage records go up to 1852; I think the marriage I want is around 1855-56. However, I did find a possible birth record for the bride, Maria Havrilla (luckily not in cyrillic!). But once again, I don't know her parents' names, so I'm back to the question of how I determine if this record is my ancestor...
            > >
            > > Debbie
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Sigh. That dull thud you hear is me banging my head against my desk. I do believe many of these Celovce records are in Cyrillic...
            > > >
            > > > Oh well, I guess I need to do a bit of research to figure out how to read these records. Between that and picking out names hopefully I'll find what I need!
            > > >
            > > > Debbie
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Ah, thank you Curt! That was going to be my next question - where are the GC records for Plechotice! I will definitely look, but I'm not too hopeful. The majority of marriage records I've found for my family do not have parents' names, but it's certainly worth a try.
            > > > >
            > > > > So I'm guessing that is my only way to confirm the birth record?
            > > > >
            > > > > Debbie
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Debbie,
            > > > > > In the nineteenth century, slightly more than one third of the population of Plechotice was Greek Catholic. Greek Catholics of Plechotice and their births, marriages, and deaths are recorded in the Greek Catholic records of the neighboring village of Celovce, which are also online.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Be sure to check these records for lots of information about Plechotice, and possibly the marriage you are looking for. With luck, that will give you his parents names.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Curt B.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I have a question regarding a record I found. I recently obtained my great-grandfather Andrew's death certificate, which gave me the name of his parents, with his father named as Joseph Luchansky. I sent for the films and found Andrew's birth record, and looking back through the records of the town (Plechotice) I found a birth record (as well as a death record) for a Joseph Luchansky. However, how do I tell if this birth record is the right Joseph Luchansky? (The death record has his wife's name so it is indeed him).
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > The age seems about right (he was born in 1835 and my Joe's first child was born in 1857). Also, the death record for Joseph (who IS my Joseph) shows him dying in 1873 at the age of 35 from cholera (which puts his age off by three years from the birth record, but that's still reasonable). But since I don't know Joseph's parents' names, how can I be sure it is him? I don't see any other Joseph Luchansky in the records, which go from 1825 to about 1880.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I did not see a marriage record for Joseph and his wife Maria Havrilova/Havrilla; I'm thinking perhaps she was from another village and perhaps the marriage record is there? (The only Havrillas I see in the town are 2 women (perhaps her sisters?), named as the mothers in birth/baptism records, who I assume were also from another town and have married men from Plechotice). Maria is also Greek Catholic and Joseph is RC, but I believe they would have been married in a RC church, correct? (bride's town, groom's church/religion?) So I can try to find her village, get the records and look for a marriage record - although not all marriage records give the parents' names anyway.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > So, thoughts? Is there a way that I can confirm this record as my Joseph (besides trying to find a marriage record)? I appreciate any suggestions or thoughts on this.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Thank you!
            > > > > > > Debbie
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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