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Re: [S-R] House numbers

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  • helene cincebeaux
    I am told this happened - it sounds like it happened quite frequently   but sometimes the village organization changed all the house numbers;  sometimes more
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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      I am told this happened - it sounds like it happened quite frequently
       
      but sometimes the village organization changed all the house numbers;  sometimes more than once
       
      usually the older people remember who lived where -  or sometimes the Mayor's office can tell.
       
      That's why in a village house numbers can vary wildly. There are usually 2 sets and the second set - or fire number - is more consistent with the system we know.
       
      Fun to drive in a village and note number 2 next to 673 -
       
      house numbers in your genealogy records are like gold but often it requires a bit of searching to determine if they are still that number. What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.
       
      helene
       

      --- On Mon, 1/2/12, lovadina_karen <lovadina_karen@...> wrote:


      From: lovadina_karen <lovadina_karen@...>
      Subject: [S-R] House numbers
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, January 2, 2012, 2:31 PM



       



      I recall someone posting a comment that stated house numbers remained the same even when people moved. Did I understand that correctly?








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      ... Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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        >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<

        Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.

        In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.

        The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
      • lkocik@comcast.net
        Hi John  Hope your having a good new year.  When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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          Hi John

           Hope your having a good new year.

           When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be the postal address house numbers, as opposed to the "other" house numbers? The "other" house numbers would refer to the sequential order the house was built in the villiage.

           I don't mean to get too personal, but how do you know so much about your parents ancestral villiages?

           My question should be; were you able to find the information on line, or is it from close bonds with your family in Slovakia?

           Thanks John.

          Larry Kocik
           


          ----- Original Message -----


          From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 7:24:18 AM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers

          >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<

          Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.

          In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.

          The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John
          In the case of a house in Secovce, there ARE two numbers posted on the house. In the case of Senne and Dubravka, there is only a single number. In Senne, they
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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            In the case of a house in Secovce, there ARE two numbers posted on the house.

            In the case of Senne and Dubravka, there is only a single number. In Senne, they seem to start near the "estate house" and work their way towards the other side of the village.

            How did I learn this? SEVEN visits working on the family tree = Rodokmen. Every participant gets a copy for FREE. Software included. I guess that's why they like me. I like them too.

            John

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi John
            >
            >  Hope your having a good new year.
            >
            >  When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be the postal address house numbers, as opposed to the "other" house numbers? The "other" house numbers would refer to the sequential order the house was built in the villiage.
            >
            >  I don't mean to get too personal, but how do you know so much about your parents ancestral villiages?
            >
            >  My question should be; were you able to find the information on line, or is it from close bonds with your family in Slovakia?
            >
            >  Thanks John.
            >
            > Larry Kocik
            >  
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            >
            >
            > From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 7:24:18 AM
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers
            >
            > >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<
            >
            > Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.
            >
            > In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.
            >
            > The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ron
            It seems an always-informative place to go for information are the articles posted by Martin Votruba, professor at U of Pittsburgh.
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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              It seems an always-informative place to go for information are the articles posted by Martin Votruba, professor at U of Pittsburgh.
              http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/qsonhist.html

              His writeup on House Numbers:
              http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/housenumbersslovakia.html
              * * *
              House numbers
              Q: Why do houses have two numbers?

              Houses in Slovakia usually display both their street number and a number parallel to the American lot-and-block number from the deeds registry. The red street numbers are assigned in a manner similar to the U.S., except that the numbering does not reflect blocks. The black "lot-and-block" numbers are more permanent than the former ones, but unlike the American lot-and-block numbers, the Slovak numbers may identify only the building, not necessarily the whole land lot.

              The law (221/1996) requires that both numbers be displayed on each building. The "lot-and-block" number plate is provided by the municipality, the owner of the building must obtain the street number plate, if applicable, and cover the cost of the attachment and maintenance of both number plates.
              Maria Theresa's legacy

              The "lot-and-block" numbers were gradually introduced at the orders of Empress Maria Theresa beginning in 1767, their original German name was Konskriptionsnummer. Most have been renumbered several times since the 18th century. The local noblemen tried to sabotage the process initially. They saw it, rightly, as part of Maria Theresa's efforts to integrate the Kingdom of Hungary, the Slovaks' home country, more firmly in her Austrian Empire and to start taxing the nobility. The drive began with the Imperial and Royal Court sending out officials to compile a sound registry of the Kingdom's real estate. The noblemen prevailed through other means for a long time, their taxation did not materialize until the mid-19th century.
              Black numbers today

              The Slovak "lot-and-block" number is now issued sequentially along with each construction permit, it is not linked to the location of the building on a street or in a municipality. If nearby buildings carry similar black "lot-and-block" numbers, it is a result of a historical renumbering of the buildings in the municipality or of their construction permits being issued close to each other.

              For historical reasons, the red house numbers, too, are often not distributed according to the arithmetic progression in the absence of named streets in small villages (see the right sidebar).
              Address and number

              The Slovaks place the street number after the name of the street, and the zip code (grouped xxx xx) before the name of the locality:

              Jozef Kováč
              Nová 17
              123 45 Dolnovce

              When the house is not on a named street, which can happen in a small village, the house number goes after the name of the locality:

              Jozef Kováč
              123 45 Dolnovce 17

              * * *
            • jdkocis
              John, Is there any more can you tell me of the KOCSIS home site mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2012
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                John,
                Is there any more can you tell me of "the KOCSIS home site" mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS ancestors to Zsadany and Szina back to about 1858.
                Thanks in advance for any information you might provide.
                Jerry

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                >
                > >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<
                >
                > Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.
                >
                > In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.
                >
                > The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
                >
              • John
                ... In Senne, the Kocis families are still there but not on the grassy site of my mother s former home. I can t tell you anything about Kocsis families who
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2012
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                  >>> Is there any more can you tell me of "the KOCSIS home site" mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS ancestors to Zsadany and Szina back to about 1858. <<<

                  In Senne, the Kocis families are still there but not on the grassy site of my mother's former home. I can't tell you anything about Kocsis families who lived in other places.
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