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Re: [S-R] House numbers

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  • lkocik@comcast.net
    Hi  The way I was told is there are two numbers for each house, usually both numbers are posted on the house.  One number is the postal address and could
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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      Hi

       The way I was told is there are two numbers for each house, usually both numbers are posted on the house.

       One number is the postal address and could change as the villiage grows or streets are altered.

       The other number, the one you refer to, is  sequential and is the order that the house was built. So #456 was the 456th house built in that villiage.

       If I am correct then the "house" number can never change or move to a different villiage.

        There was an interesting  thread on this subject a while back. You should get more verification since this is a truth in my head and I can't cite where I got it.

      Larry

      ----- Original Message -----


      From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:31:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers

      That can't be true. Houses in the small villages have a serial number to this day. That is to say no street name is used. For example, in the village of Senne:

      Senne 87
      072 13 Palin okres Michalovce
      SLOVAKIA



      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, karen lovadina <lovadina_karen@...> wrote:
      >
      > I didn't say that correctly.  What I meant was that I think someone said that that house number followed the family.  So, for example if your grandparents moved from Spisska Nova Ves to another place close by they would keep the number 456 at their next house.  Is this correct?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Mojher
      Karen there was a long thread on house numbers a little while back. Search the S-R archives for that thread. Basically, we found house numbers to be used many
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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        Karen there was a long thread on house numbers a little while back. Search the S-R archives for that thread. Basically, we found house numbers to be used many ways. One method was a numbering of houses as they were built, no matter where it was in town. Another was a strict numerical order. So if a house burnt down and wasn’t rebuilt the next house and all those that followed would have to lower their number by one. I also read where it was very arbitrary and Mayors were known to do a system of their own.

        I don’t recall anyone talking about a house number being moved from one village to another.

        From: karen lovadina
        Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:16 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers


        I didn't say that correctly. What I meant was that I think someone said that that house number followed the family. So, for example if your grandparents moved from Spisska Nova Ves to another place close by they would keep the number 456 at their next house. Is this correct?

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Mojher
        There are 206 messages about house numbers in the archives -
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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          There are 206 messages about house numbers in the archives - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/msearch?query=House+numbers&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1

          From: Michael Mojher
          Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 1:08 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers


          Karen there was a long thread on house numbers a little while back. Search the S-R archives for that thread. Basically, we found house numbers to be used many ways. One method was a numbering of houses as they were built, no matter where it was in town. Another was a strict numerical order. So if a house burnt down and wasn’t rebuilt the next house and all those that followed would have to lower their number by one. I also read where it was very arbitrary and Mayors were known to do a system of their own.

          I don’t recall anyone talking about a house number being moved from one village to another.

          From: karen lovadina
          Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:16 PM
          To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers

          I didn't say that correctly. What I meant was that I think someone said that that house number followed the family. So, for example if your grandparents moved from Spisska Nova Ves to another place close by they would keep the number 456 at their next house. Is this correct?

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tom geiss
          All I know is that, while looking through LDS records for births through the 1860 s to the 1890 s the number by the parents names was #456, every time. And
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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            All I know is that, while looking through LDS records for births through the 1860's to the 1890's the number by the parents' names was #456, every time. And in a marriage record in 1892 by the grooms name was #506, and, by the bride's name was the number #456.- - - and two other numbers that seemed to have a connection to the family were #533 and #537.
            Tom
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: lkocik@...
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers





            Hi

            The way I was told is there are two numbers for each house, usually both numbers are posted on the house.

            One number is the postal address and could change as the villiage grows or streets are altered.

            The other number, the one you refer to, is sequential and is the order that the house was built. So #456 was the 456th house built in that villiage.

            If I am correct then the "house" number can never change or move to a different villiage.

            There was an interesting thread on this subject a while back. You should get more verification since this is a truth in my head and I can't cite where I got it.

            Larry

            ----- Original Message -----

            From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:31:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers

            That can't be true. Houses in the small villages have a serial number to this day. That is to say no street name is used. For example, in the village of Senne:

            Senne 87
            072 13 Palin okres Michalovce
            SLOVAKIA

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, karen lovadina <lovadina_karen@...> wrote:
            >
            > I didn't say that correctly. What I meant was that I think someone said that that house number followed the family. So, for example if your grandparents moved from Spisska Nova Ves to another place close by they would keep the number 456 at their next house. Is this correct?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • htcstech
            Hello Tom, You said before that the numbers followed them . Are you saying that the parents moved from village to village and had the same number? As it
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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              Hello Tom,
              You said before that the numbers 'followed them'. Are you saying that the
              parents moved from village to village and had the same number? As it
              stands, there should be no suprise if they stayed in one house.
              Also, you would have different couples/families living in the same house,
              often in-laws looking after the elderly, others looking after children and
              so on.
              Peter

              On 3 January 2012 08:50, tom geiss <tomfgurka@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > All I know is that, while looking through LDS records for births through
              > the 1860's to the 1890's the number by the parents' names was #456, every
              > time. And in a marriage record in 1892 by the grooms name was #506, and, by
              > the bride's name was the number #456.- - - and two other numbers that
              > seemed to have a connection to the family were #533 and #537.
              > Tom
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: lkocik@...
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:56 PM
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers
              >
              > Hi
              >
              > The way I was told is there are two numbers for each house, usually both
              > numbers are posted on the house.
              >
              > One number is the postal address and could change as the villiage grows or
              > streets are altered.
              >
              > The other number, the one you refer to, is sequential and is the order
              > that the house was built. So #456 was the 456th house built in that
              > villiage.
              >
              > If I am correct then the "house" number can never change or move to a
              > different villiage.
              >
              > There was an interesting thread on this subject a while back. You should
              > get more verification since this is a truth in my head and I can't cite
              > where I got it.
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              >
              > From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:31:01 PM
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers
              >
              > That can't be true. Houses in the small villages have a serial number to
              > this day. That is to say no street name is used. For example, in the
              > village of Senne:
              >
              > Senne 87
              > 072 13 Palin okres Michalovce
              > SLOVAKIA
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, karen lovadina <lovadina_karen@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I didn't say that correctly. What I meant was that I think someone said
              > that that house number followed the family. So, for example if your
              > grandparents moved from Spisska Nova Ves to another place close by they
              > would keep the number 456 at their next house. Is this correct?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • helene cincebeaux
              I am told this happened - it sounds like it happened quite frequently   but sometimes the village organization changed all the house numbers;  sometimes more
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 2, 2012
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                I am told this happened - it sounds like it happened quite frequently
                 
                but sometimes the village organization changed all the house numbers;  sometimes more than once
                 
                usually the older people remember who lived where -  or sometimes the Mayor's office can tell.
                 
                That's why in a village house numbers can vary wildly. There are usually 2 sets and the second set - or fire number - is more consistent with the system we know.
                 
                Fun to drive in a village and note number 2 next to 673 -
                 
                house numbers in your genealogy records are like gold but often it requires a bit of searching to determine if they are still that number. What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.
                 
                helene
                 

                --- On Mon, 1/2/12, lovadina_karen <lovadina_karen@...> wrote:


                From: lovadina_karen <lovadina_karen@...>
                Subject: [S-R] House numbers
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, January 2, 2012, 2:31 PM



                 



                I recall someone posting a comment that stated house numbers remained the same even when people moved. Did I understand that correctly?








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John
                ... Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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                  >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<

                  Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.

                  In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.

                  The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
                • lkocik@comcast.net
                  Hi John  Hope your having a good new year.  When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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                    Hi John

                     Hope your having a good new year.

                     When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be the postal address house numbers, as opposed to the "other" house numbers? The "other" house numbers would refer to the sequential order the house was built in the villiage.

                     I don't mean to get too personal, but how do you know so much about your parents ancestral villiages?

                     My question should be; were you able to find the information on line, or is it from close bonds with your family in Slovakia?

                     Thanks John.

                    Larry Kocik
                     


                    ----- Original Message -----


                    From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 7:24:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers

                    >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<

                    Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.

                    In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.

                    The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    In the case of a house in Secovce, there ARE two numbers posted on the house. In the case of Senne and Dubravka, there is only a single number. In Senne, they
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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                      In the case of a house in Secovce, there ARE two numbers posted on the house.

                      In the case of Senne and Dubravka, there is only a single number. In Senne, they seem to start near the "estate house" and work their way towards the other side of the village.

                      How did I learn this? SEVEN visits working on the family tree = Rodokmen. Every participant gets a copy for FREE. Software included. I guess that's why they like me. I like them too.

                      John

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi John
                      >
                      >  Hope your having a good new year.
                      >
                      >  When You say the house numbers have changed since the 1800s, according to your Christmas card list; would that be the postal address house numbers, as opposed to the "other" house numbers? The "other" house numbers would refer to the sequential order the house was built in the villiage.
                      >
                      >  I don't mean to get too personal, but how do you know so much about your parents ancestral villiages?
                      >
                      >  My question should be; were you able to find the information on line, or is it from close bonds with your family in Slovakia?
                      >
                      >  Thanks John.
                      >
                      > Larry Kocik
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      >
                      > From: "John" <johnqadam@...>
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 7:24:18 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] House numbers
                      >
                      > >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<
                      >
                      > Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.
                      >
                      > In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.
                      >
                      > The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Ron
                      It seems an always-informative place to go for information are the articles posted by Martin Votruba, professor at U of Pittsburgh.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3, 2012
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                        It seems an always-informative place to go for information are the articles posted by Martin Votruba, professor at U of Pittsburgh.
                        http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/qsonhist.html

                        His writeup on House Numbers:
                        http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/housenumbersslovakia.html
                        * * *
                        House numbers
                        Q: Why do houses have two numbers?

                        Houses in Slovakia usually display both their street number and a number parallel to the American lot-and-block number from the deeds registry. The red street numbers are assigned in a manner similar to the U.S., except that the numbering does not reflect blocks. The black "lot-and-block" numbers are more permanent than the former ones, but unlike the American lot-and-block numbers, the Slovak numbers may identify only the building, not necessarily the whole land lot.

                        The law (221/1996) requires that both numbers be displayed on each building. The "lot-and-block" number plate is provided by the municipality, the owner of the building must obtain the street number plate, if applicable, and cover the cost of the attachment and maintenance of both number plates.
                        Maria Theresa's legacy

                        The "lot-and-block" numbers were gradually introduced at the orders of Empress Maria Theresa beginning in 1767, their original German name was Konskriptionsnummer. Most have been renumbered several times since the 18th century. The local noblemen tried to sabotage the process initially. They saw it, rightly, as part of Maria Theresa's efforts to integrate the Kingdom of Hungary, the Slovaks' home country, more firmly in her Austrian Empire and to start taxing the nobility. The drive began with the Imperial and Royal Court sending out officials to compile a sound registry of the Kingdom's real estate. The noblemen prevailed through other means for a long time, their taxation did not materialize until the mid-19th century.
                        Black numbers today

                        The Slovak "lot-and-block" number is now issued sequentially along with each construction permit, it is not linked to the location of the building on a street or in a municipality. If nearby buildings carry similar black "lot-and-block" numbers, it is a result of a historical renumbering of the buildings in the municipality or of their construction permits being issued close to each other.

                        For historical reasons, the red house numbers, too, are often not distributed according to the arithmetic progression in the absence of named streets in small villages (see the right sidebar).
                        Address and number

                        The Slovaks place the street number after the name of the street, and the zip code (grouped xxx xx) before the name of the locality:

                        Jozef Kováč
                        Nová 17
                        123 45 Dolnovce

                        When the house is not on a named street, which can happen in a small village, the house number goes after the name of the locality:

                        Jozef Kováč
                        123 45 Dolnovce 17

                        * * *
                      • jdkocis
                        John, Is there any more can you tell me of the KOCSIS home site mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 4, 2012
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                          John,
                          Is there any more can you tell me of "the KOCSIS home site" mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS ancestors to Zsadany and Szina back to about 1858.
                          Thanks in advance for any information you might provide.
                          Jerry

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >>> What's fun is the number of old homesteads that are still standing - sometimes as a storage barn. Sometimes a brand new home has been built right over it.<<<
                          >
                          > Right on! In Dubravka, on the site of the ADAM house is a modern two storey home. Down the block is an original house, now empty - with the thatch roof peeking through the metal roof that was installed over top.
                          >
                          > In mother's village of Senne, the KOCSIS home site is an empty grassy patch with sidewalk headed toward the municipal office and (now closed) school. The relatives know exactly who lived there.
                          >
                          > The house numbers have changed since the 1800s. They seem to flow evenly according to my Christmas card list but I never looked for anomalies.
                          >
                        • John
                          ... In Senne, the Kocis families are still there but not on the grassy site of my mother s former home. I can t tell you anything about Kocsis families who
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 4, 2012
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                            >>> Is there any more can you tell me of "the KOCSIS home site" mentioned in your post and the KOCSIS family who had lived there? I have traced my KOCSIS ancestors to Zsadany and Szina back to about 1858. <<<

                            In Senne, the Kocis families are still there but not on the grassy site of my mother's former home. I can't tell you anything about Kocsis families who lived in other places.
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