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Re: [S-R] Re: illegitimate children

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  • htcstech
    Re: Illegitimate child out of wedlock. I have an example in my line where a marriage has taken place and the father died a month before the birth of his
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
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      Re: Illegitimate child out of wedlock.

      I have an example in my line where a marriage has taken place and the father
      died a month before the birth of his daughter. The priest marked her as
      illegitimate. She became legitimised when the mother remarried.

      I have picked up an error - a duplicate entry a few days apart, so I presume
      that the records I'm looking at aren't 100% reliable :(

      Peter

      On 22 September 2011 04:12, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Frank,
      >
      > This is not about illegitimate children, but I have always enjoyed your tag
      > line "looking for Plichtas all over the world" (I paraphrase). I was in
      > Kostolany nad Horn�dom recently and saw an old record that contained a
      > Plichta. Have you found some relatives there?
      >
      > Elaine
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      >
      > On Sep 21, 2011, at 5:06 PM, "Frank R Plichta" <
      > frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Ladislav,
      > >
      > > I would look at the marital status of the parents at the time the child
      > was
      > > born rather than when the child was conceived. If the couple was
      > 1)married
      > > and then 2) the child was born, it doesn't matter when the father died,
      > even
      > > if the father died before the child was born.
      > >
      > > Either the child was legitimate or not. The only criteria that I see is
      > > that the couple was married before the birth.
      > >
      > > Enjoy,
      > >
      > > Frank
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > > Behalf Of lacoros@...
      > > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:47 AM
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: illegitimate children
      > >
      > > When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born
      > > less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death
      > of
      > > the father.
      > >
      > > My great surprise was finding a legitimate child 2 months before the
      > > wedding. After this a legitimate child born two months after wedding was
      > not
      > > so surprising. Both children born about 1840. Also after seeing entries
      > > where after 10-20 years was a child re-legitimized and a father was
      > added, i
      > > assume that in some time illegitimate child would mean "father unknown"
      > or
      > > "father didn't give his consent to be written as the father".
      > >
      > > Whats you opinion about this?
      > >
      > > Ladislav
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: htcstech <htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com> >
      > > Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >
      > > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:25:47
      > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >
      > > Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check
      > >
      > > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
      > > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
      > > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
      > > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
      > > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
      > >
      > > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was
      > he
      > > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
      > >
      > > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
      > > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
      > > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
      > >
      > > What a delicious problem!
      > >
      > > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
      > >
      > > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from
      > then
      > > on.
      > > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same
      > book
      > > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
      > > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years
      > between
      > > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was
      > married
      > > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the
      > line
      > > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
      > > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could
      > have
      > > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
      > > important.
      > >
      > > Please keep me informed.
      > >
      > > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
      > > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the
      > same
      > > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from
      > 2
      > > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
      > >
      > > I reckon you've got it easy!
      > >
      > > Peter
      > >
      > > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...
      > > <mailto:horsegirrl%40hotmail.com> > wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
      > > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
      > > >
      > > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443
      > > <
      > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&
      > > wc=10600137> &wc=10600137
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
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