Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check

Expand Messages
  • htcstech
    An excellent point! Probably the case or something very similar. I also found one of my ancestors, a widow, looking after at least 3 children whose parents
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 20, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      An excellent point! Probably the case or something very similar. I also
      found one of my ancestors, a widow, looking after at least 3 children whose
      parents died in the village. The children were very young and died within a
      few years, never getting old enough to marry. They were entered in the death
      record by their father's last name. However in this case, the priest made it
      obvious that they were fostered.

      Just for the record, 1848 was the year the revolution started. Pigza could
      have died as a result?

      Peter

      BTW: The longer I do this, the prouder I become of my Slovak heritage and
      the Slovak people in general. I can see now why my father was so calm and
      hardly ever angry.
      Our Rus cousins, as well as the Magyars and Germans, had a terrible time in
      Vojvodina, Serbia. The Slovak-Magyar mix in the north was much more peaceful
      and civilized than what happened in the south with the Serbian communists.

      On 21 September 2011 02:55, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

      > Peter,
      > I don't know if it relevant to this case. In the past there was a
      > discussion where a family line died of because there were no sons. Since
      > the
      > family owned land they had a son-in-law take on the family name to continue
      > it. It seems the Slovaks were creative in the use of surnames
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: htcstech
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:25 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check
      >
      > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
      > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
      > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
      > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
      > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
      >
      > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was
      > he
      > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
      >
      >
      > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
      > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
      > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
      >
      > What a delicious problem!
      >
      > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
      >
      > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from
      > then
      > on.
      > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same book
      > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
      > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years between
      > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was married
      > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the
      > line
      > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
      > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could have
      > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
      > important.
      >
      > Please keep me informed.
      >
      > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
      > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the same
      > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from 2
      > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
      >
      > I reckon you've got it easy!
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
      > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
      > > >
      > > > Peter
      > > >
      > >
      > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
      > >
      > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&wc=10600137
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lisan533
      Just to double check, in this particular record is the father s name above or below the mother s? He was known as Antonius Pigza in subsequent records, but
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Just to double check, in this particular record is the father's name above or below the mother's? He was known as Antonius Pigza in subsequent records, but his children went by Petro(Pigza), that's why I asked about the position of the father's name, I assumed that Antonius' father was Gregorius Petrov, in which case the change would kind of make sense.
        Thanks!
        Lisa

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
        >
        > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
        > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
        > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
        > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
        > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
        >
        > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was he
        > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
        >
        >
        > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
        > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
        > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
        >
        > What a delicious problem!
        >
        > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
        >
        > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from then
        > on.
        > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same book
        > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
        > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years between
        > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was married
        > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the line
        > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
        > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could have
        > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
        > important.
        >
        > Please keep me informed.
        >
        > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
        > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the same
        > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from 2
        > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
        >
        > I reckon you've got it easy!
        >
        > Peter
        >
        > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
        > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
        > > >
        > > > Peter
        > > >
        > >
        > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
        > >
        > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
        > >
        > >
        > > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&wc=10600137
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • lacoros@gmail.com
        When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death of the
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death of the father.

          My great surprise was finding a legitimate child 2 months before the wedding. After this a legitimate child born two months after wedding was not so surprising. Both children born about 1840. Also after seeing entries where after 10-20 years was a child re-legitimized and a father was added, i assume that in some time illegitimate child would mean "father unknown" or "father didn't give his consent to be written as the father".

          Whats you opinion about this?


          Ladislav
          -----Original Message-----
          From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
          Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:25:47
          To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check

          Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
          Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
          1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
          For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
          birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!

          So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was he
          called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?


          Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
          Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
          she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.

          What a delicious problem!

          Well, if it was my family tree, I would:

          1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from then
          on.
          2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same book
          - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
          3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years between
          1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was married
          AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the line
          *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
          It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could have
          been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
          important.

          Please keep me informed.

          I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
          other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the same
          name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from 2
          fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.

          I reckon you've got it easy!

          Peter

          On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
          > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
          > >
          > > Peter
          > >
          >
          > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
          >
          > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
          >
          >
          > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&wc=10600137
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        • Frank R Plichta
          Ladislav, I would look at the marital status of the parents at the time the child was born rather than when the child was conceived. If the couple was
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Ladislav,



            I would look at the marital status of the parents at the time the child was
            born rather than when the child was conceived. If the couple was 1)married
            and then 2) the child was born, it doesn't matter when the father died, even
            if the father died before the child was born.



            Either the child was legitimate or not. The only criteria that I see is
            that the couple was married before the birth.



            Enjoy,

            Frank



            _____

            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of lacoros@...
            Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:47 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Re: illegitimate children






            When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born
            less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death of
            the father.

            My great surprise was finding a legitimate child 2 months before the
            wedding. After this a legitimate child born two months after wedding was not
            so surprising. Both children born about 1840. Also after seeing entries
            where after 10-20 years was a child re-legitimized and a father was added, i
            assume that in some time illegitimate child would mean "father unknown" or
            "father didn't give his consent to be written as the father".

            Whats you opinion about this?


            Ladislav
            -----Original Message-----
            From: htcstech <htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com> >
            Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>

            Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:25:47
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> >
            Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check

            Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
            Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
            1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
            For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
            birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!

            So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was he
            called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?


            Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
            Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
            she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.

            What a delicious problem!

            Well, if it was my family tree, I would:

            1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from then
            on.
            2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same book
            - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
            3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years between
            1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was married
            AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the line
            *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
            It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could have
            been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
            important.

            Please keep me informed.

            I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
            other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the same
            name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from 2
            fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.

            I reckon you've got it easy!

            Peter

            On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...
            <mailto:horsegirrl%40hotmail.com> > wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
            > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
            > >
            > > Peter
            > >
            >
            > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
            >
            > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
            >
            >
            > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443
            <https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&
            wc=10600137> &wc=10600137
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
            <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Elaine
            Frank, This is not about illegitimate children, but I have always enjoyed your tag line looking for Plichtas all over the world (I paraphrase). I was in
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Frank,

              This is not about illegitimate children, but I have always enjoyed your tag line "looking for Plichtas all over the world" (I paraphrase). I was in Kostolany nad Hornádom recently and saw an old record that contained a Plichta. Have you found some relatives there?

              Elaine

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Sep 21, 2011, at 5:06 PM, "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:

              > Ladislav,
              >
              > I would look at the marital status of the parents at the time the child was
              > born rather than when the child was conceived. If the couple was 1)married
              > and then 2) the child was born, it doesn't matter when the father died, even
              > if the father died before the child was born.
              >
              > Either the child was legitimate or not. The only criteria that I see is
              > that the couple was married before the birth.
              >
              > Enjoy,
              >
              > Frank
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of lacoros@...
              > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:47 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: illegitimate children
              >
              > When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born
              > less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death of
              > the father.
              >
              > My great surprise was finding a legitimate child 2 months before the
              > wedding. After this a legitimate child born two months after wedding was not
              > so surprising. Both children born about 1840. Also after seeing entries
              > where after 10-20 years was a child re-legitimized and a father was added, i
              > assume that in some time illegitimate child would mean "father unknown" or
              > "father didn't give his consent to be written as the father".
              >
              > Whats you opinion about this?
              >
              > Ladislav
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: htcstech <htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com> >
              > Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              >
              > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:25:47
              > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> >
              > Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check
              >
              > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
              > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
              > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
              > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
              > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
              >
              > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was he
              > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
              >
              > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
              > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
              > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
              >
              > What a delicious problem!
              >
              > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
              >
              > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from then
              > on.
              > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same book
              > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
              > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years between
              > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was married
              > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the line
              > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
              > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could have
              > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
              > important.
              >
              > Please keep me informed.
              >
              > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
              > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the same
              > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from 2
              > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
              >
              > I reckon you've got it easy!
              >
              > Peter
              >
              > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...
              > <mailto:horsegirrl%40hotmail.com> > wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
              > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
              > > >
              > > > Peter
              > > >
              > >
              > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
              > >
              > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
              > >
              > >
              > > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443
              > <https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&
              > wc=10600137> &wc=10600137
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
              > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • htcstech
              Lisa! You are right! It is Petrov and not Badnar. I m used to record entries where the name of the child is on the same line as the name of the father, with
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Lisa!
                You are right! It is Petrov and not Badnar.
                I'm used to record entries where the name of the child is on the same line
                as the name of the father, with the mother below. Just so happens that in
                this case, the child was on the same line as the mother, with the father
                above. I should have picked it up though.
                Nice catch!

                Peter

                On 21 September 2011 23:47, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Just to double check, in this particular record is the father's name above
                > or below the mother's? He was known as Antonius Pigza in subsequent records,
                > but his children went by Petro(Pigza), that's why I asked about the position
                > of the father's name, I assumed that Antonius' father was Gregorius Petrov,
                > in which case the change would kind of make sense.
                > Thanks!
                >
                > Lisa
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
                > > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
                > > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
                > > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
                > > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
                > >
                > > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was
                > he
                > > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
                > >
                > >
                > > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
                > > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
                > > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
                > >
                > > What a delicious problem!
                > >
                > > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
                > >
                > > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from
                > then
                > > on.
                > > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same
                > book
                > > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
                > > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years
                > between
                > > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was
                > married
                > > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the
                > line
                > > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
                > > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could
                > have
                > > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
                > > important.
                > >
                > > Please keep me informed.
                > >
                > > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
                > > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the
                > same
                > > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from
                > 2
                > > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
                > >
                > > I reckon you've got it easy!
                > >
                > > Peter
                > >
                > > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
                > > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
                > > > >
                > > > > Peter
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
                > > >
                > > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&wc=10600137
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • htcstech
                Re: Illegitimate child out of wedlock. I have an example in my line where a marriage has taken place and the father died a month before the birth of his
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 21, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Re: Illegitimate child out of wedlock.

                  I have an example in my line where a marriage has taken place and the father
                  died a month before the birth of his daughter. The priest marked her as
                  illegitimate. She became legitimised when the mother remarried.

                  I have picked up an error - a duplicate entry a few days apart, so I presume
                  that the records I'm looking at aren't 100% reliable :(

                  Peter

                  On 22 September 2011 04:12, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Frank,
                  >
                  > This is not about illegitimate children, but I have always enjoyed your tag
                  > line "looking for Plichtas all over the world" (I paraphrase). I was in
                  > Kostolany nad Horn�dom recently and saw an old record that contained a
                  > Plichta. Have you found some relatives there?
                  >
                  > Elaine
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sep 21, 2011, at 5:06 PM, "Frank R Plichta" <
                  > frank.r.plichta@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Ladislav,
                  > >
                  > > I would look at the marital status of the parents at the time the child
                  > was
                  > > born rather than when the child was conceived. If the couple was
                  > 1)married
                  > > and then 2) the child was born, it doesn't matter when the father died,
                  > even
                  > > if the father died before the child was born.
                  > >
                  > > Either the child was legitimate or not. The only criteria that I see is
                  > > that the couple was married before the birth.
                  > >
                  > > Enjoy,
                  > >
                  > > Frank
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On
                  > > Behalf Of lacoros@...
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:47 AM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Re: illegitimate children
                  > >
                  > > When was a child illegitimate? My idea was clear - when a child was born
                  > > less then 7-8 months after marriage or more then 9-10 months after death
                  > of
                  > > the father.
                  > >
                  > > My great surprise was finding a legitimate child 2 months before the
                  > > wedding. After this a legitimate child born two months after wedding was
                  > not
                  > > so surprising. Both children born about 1840. Also after seeing entries
                  > > where after 10-20 years was a child re-legitimized and a father was
                  > added, i
                  > > assume that in some time illegitimate child would mean "father unknown"
                  > or
                  > > "father didn't give his consent to be written as the father".
                  > >
                  > > Whats you opinion about this?
                  > >
                  > > Ladislav
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: htcstech <htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com> >
                  > > Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > >
                  > > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 02:25:47
                  > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > >
                  > > Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Hvosztaly-Petro Family Search Double Check
                  > >
                  > > Where found, every entry I've seen, illegitimate is clearly recorded.
                  > > Obviously not in this case, and I can't think of a reason, certainly in
                  > > 1848, where a priest would not indicate it if it was so.
                  > > For example, illegitimate is even recorded if the father died before the
                  > > birth! The widow giving birth to an 'illegitimate' child out of wedlock!
                  > >
                  > > So Antonius carried his mother's name as well as his father's Badnar? Was
                  > he
                  > > called Antonius Badnar (Pigza) or Antonius Pigza?
                  > >
                  > > Even if Gregorius Badnar died soon after, Antonius should still be called
                  > > Badnar. However it is conceivable that Pigza was an important family, and
                  > > she was the last of them and so Antonius carried on with the name.
                  > >
                  > > What a delicious problem!
                  > >
                  > > Well, if it was my family tree, I would:
                  > >
                  > > 1. Find if Antonius had a brother/sister - Skip 10 months and look from
                  > then
                  > > on.
                  > > 2. Trace the mother PIGZA to her birth if her parents were in the same
                  > book
                  > > - maybe look to see if PIGZA was a noble name.
                  > > 3. Check for Gregorius Badnar's death record - look from the years
                  > between
                  > > 1848 and Antonius's marriage. If Gregorius died before Antonius was
                  > married
                  > > AND Theresia did not remarry, OR* there were no male Pigza to carry the
                  > line
                  > > *, then you can assume that Antonius carried the Pigza name!
                  > > It could be the beginnings of a double barrelled surname. Pigza could
                  > have
                  > > been a local hero or some other notable person. Whoever Pigza was, he was
                  > > important.
                  > >
                  > > Please keep me informed.
                  > >
                  > > I've gone batty working out a weird doppelganger, one who had twins, the
                  > > other seemingly had 2 wives both naming their respective children the
                  > same
                  > > name within a week of each other. That means 4 children from 3 wives from
                  > 2
                  > > fathers both named Martinus, all born within 7 days.
                  > >
                  > > I reckon you've got it easy!
                  > >
                  > > Peter
                  > >
                  > > On 21 September 2011 01:30, lisan533 <horsegirrl@...
                  > > <mailto:horsegirrl%40hotmail.com> > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > It could be either an Alias or more likely her maiden name by another
                  > > > > father. I.E. a step-father who died and the mother remarried.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Peter
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Illegitmate perhaps? This is her father's baptismal entry:
                  > > >
                  > > > Antonius,left side of page, 19 June.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443
                  > > <
                  > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11666-72108-92?cc=1554443&
                  > > wc=10600137> &wc=10600137
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  > >
                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                  > > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.