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Re: Found records and need help with a village name

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  • momsbeenscrappin
    Thank you very much John - I checked the village names you ve suggested and it seems I ve hit another dead end for now because none of these records are
    Message 1 of 34 , Sep 7, 2011
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      Thank you very much John - I checked the village names you've suggested and it seems I've hit another dead end for now because none of these records are included in the Family Search records. Hopefully these will be added in the future as well as additional records for Nagylevard/Velke Levard.

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > >>> My grandfather on the other hand is proving harder to find. On his immigration records he lists Nagylevard as his place of birth, but in all the pages I searched thru yesterday not once did I come across anyone with his last name of Schmaus or Smausz. On his US military registration records he listed Tsokolo Hungary as his place of birth but I cannot find any record of this village anywhere. <<<
      >
      > Nagylevard = Velke Levare, due north of Bratislava.
      >
      > Tsokolo might sound like Szokolocz, Nyitra Megye = county. OLD NAMES of the village(town): 1773 Szokolocz, Sockolowetz, Sokolowcze, 1786 Sokolocz, 1808 Szokolócz, Sokolowce, 1863–1907 Szokolóc, 1913 Vágszakály, 1920– Sokolovce
      >
      > Based upon the surname, the Cisarik web site suggests the village of Brodske, OLD NAMES of the village(town): 1773 Broczka, Brotzka, Broczke, 1786 Broczka, 1808 Broczka, Brocko, Brodsko, 1863–1907 Brockó, 1913 Gázlós, 1920 Brodské, Brodsko, Brocké, 1927– Brodské.
      >
      > Brodske is due north of Velke Levare. Surname is there but Sokolovce sounds like Tsokolo.
      >
      > Good luck on checking these out.
      >
    • htcstech
      ... Can of worms! My degree is in European history and I can tell you that there is a sharp divide between East European and West European history. As far as
      Message 34 of 34 , Sep 9, 2011
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        On 9 September 2011 11:58, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I�m more than willing to be educated on the Hungarian Crown rule. The six
        > books of Slovak history I read did not make the Hungarian rule seem anything
        > close to the Spanish Inquisition or what the French did to the Huguenots. My
        > degree is in Asian History. So I have only begun to educate myself on Slovak
        > history. Unfortunately, my parents did not see the need to teach me Slovak.
        > So I have to rely on what has ever been written in English.
        > True, those who returned are not a story of assimilation in the USA. But it
        > is a story of the Slovaks and how they did not see America as an �end all�
        > destination. They had a long enough history of needing a means of making
        > enough to survive. As the book pointed out, the goal was to make $1000 and
        > then head home. Because of this there was a tendency for the Slovaks to be
        > �clannish� and not assimilate quickly. It would be interesting to know what
        > percentage of immigrants could be declared assimilated in their lifetime. In
        > my parents hometown which was not very large there was a Slovak
        > neighborhood,church and school. Other nationalities did like wise.
        > One of the affects of those 57% returning home is they came back with a
        > whole new point of view about politics. And from it came the acceptance for
        > the movement for a separate Slovak state in the villages. Could it be said
        > they had been changed so much they were no longer assimilated in their
        > Slovak society?
        >
        > From: Nemam Meno
        > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:48 PM
        >
        Can of worms! My degree is in European history and I can tell you that there
        is a sharp divide between East European and West European history.
        As far as Magyarisation is concerned, the Hapsburgs themselves were the
        underlying cause of this.
        Here is a good starter. If you still have access to your university's
        on-line library then:
        Evans, R. J. W. (Author). Austria, Hungary, and the Habsburgs : Central
        Europe, c. 1683-1867.
        Cary, NC, USA: Oxford University Press, 2006

        A good read and a lot more background:
        Wheatcroft, Andrew (Author). Enemy at the Gate : Habsburgs, Ottomans, and
        the Battle for Europe.
        New York, NY, USA: Basic Books, 2009.

        And if that garners interest then:
        Deak, Istvan (Author). Beyond Nationalism : A Social and Political History
        of the Habsburg Officer Corps, 1848-1918.
        Cary, NC, USA: Oxford University Press, 1990.

        Nationalism is very strong and colours viewpoints (if you know what I mean).
        Ultimately however, any ruling authority that instigates a policy to stop
        teaching the local language is not good. Yet the Hapsburgs or for that
        matter the Bohemian aristocrats who had substantial power in Vienna did
        nothing to stop it, and even encouraged it. Moravia was completely ignored
        by them and Silesia was given away to the Polish. In fact, the church in
        Rome (Hapsburg was the last Holy Roman Emperor) was the root cause.
        Magyarisation was feeble, compared to what the 3rd Reich or the Soviets did.
        Today, divisions exist between Slovak, Czeh and Moravians and that is about
        consolidation and national pride.
        Specifically, that Magyarisation destroyed the language and culture of the
        Slovaks is not as significant as other factors.

        I was also part of a gov. funded project on migrants and assimilation (and
        resulting mental illnesses). Basically, migrants lived in enclaves where
        whole streets (including the corner shop) were populated by a homogenous
        ethnic group. This resulted in no assimilation, no learning of English,
        children translating school notes to their parents, shop-keepers serving in
        their language, homes with minimal furniture or white goods, cut-outs of
        newspapers sent from home plastered on the walls and so on. This was in the
        late 70's early 80's and not in the US but in Australia -in steel working
        cities, with assembly-line factories where you can get away from having to
        learn the language.
        Sure, when a family saved up enough and sent money home, it was 'clannish',
        but eventually as the patriarch got older, children leaving home, husband
        and wife moved away from their ethnic street into the English speaking
        suburbs. This caused massive culture shock (especially for the women).
        Assimilation policies just didn't work.
        Education does. Changing the world-view. And I think that is the point you
        raised.

        Peter

        >
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
        >
        > .. you have to be kidding me... "The Hungarian Crown seems to have been
        > tolerant of the ethnic groups
        > they ruled over. As long as they caused no fuss they were allowed their
        > culture and religion?" You need to read Bottu, Hodzdu, Hurbana,
        > Bernolaka, Hviezdoslava, Safarika, Stefanika just to list a few. The
        > Hungarian Crown oppressed and the state continues to wish have control
        > over today's Slovakian territory... I guess they just wanted the High
        > Tatras. Also, assimilation refers to integration of those who remained
        > in the U.S. You can't measure assimilation by referring to those who
        > had returned.
        >
        > --- On Fri, 9/9/11, Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> wrote:
        >
        > From: Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net>
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, September 9, 2011, 12:35 AM
        >
        > Memam,
        >
        > Assimilation is to become similar. Those 57% of Slovaks that returned home
        > had no desire to become Americans. So they were not assimilated.
        >
        > One of my own wonders on going to Slovakia was how having been ruled by the
        > Hungarians for nearly a 1000 years the Slovaks were not assimilated into the
        > Magyar culture. A late attempt in the 1800�s at Magyarization failed. Who
        > knows what would have happened if that was attempted hundreds of years
        > earlier. The Hungarian Crown seems to have been tolerant of the ethnic
        > groups they ruled over. As long as they caused no fuss they were allowed
        > their culture and religion.
        >
        > I also felt that the nature of having the Slovaks live in so many small
        > villages and towns made it possible for them to keep their identity. There
        > is a social and cultural bond that is more easily kept in smaller units.
        >
        > If you have some interest in Slovakia click on the link. It goes to Queries
        > on History, Slovak Studies. You can learn some interesting things there.
        >
        > http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/qsonhist.html
        >
        > From: Nemam Meno
        >
        > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:59 PM
        >
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
        >
        > I am not sure how "returning home" relates to assimilation. Although, that
        > number/ percentage does not surprise me. As far as the Hungarian rule, I
        > couldn't agree more.
        >
        > --- On Thu, 9/8/11, Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> wrote:
        >
        > From: Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net>
        >
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
        >
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 5:01 PM
        >
        > In the book Round-trip to America: The Immigrants Return to Europe,
        > 1880-1930 by Mark Wyman on page 11 is a chart that gives the number by
        > country of immigrants and emigrants between 1908 and 1923. What it shows is
        > the Slovaks did not have a high degree of assimilation. Some 57% of the
        > Slovak immigrants to the United States returned home. Magyar (Hungarian) and
        > Romanian immigrants at 66% were the highest.
        >
        > The Slovaks when under Hungarian rule became the migrant workers of Europe
        > and beyond. As early as the 1400�s the Slovaks in order to survive had to
        > find work elsewhere. They were required to work 40 days for the �Crown�, but
        > that did not pay enough to get them through the year. There are records that
        > report that the Slovak migrant workers went beyond Europe, to Egypt and
        > China. Their desire was to earn enough and then return home.
        >
        > From: Nemam Meno
        >
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:09 PM
        >
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovaks
        >
        > Does anyone know if there has been some theoretical, published work on
        > Slovaks' high assimilation and low national self-esteem rates?
        >
        > --- On Wed, 9/7/11, momsbeenscrappin <mailto:momsbeenscrappin%40yahoo.com>
        > wrote:
        >
        > From: momsbeenscrappin <mailto:momsbeenscrappin%40yahoo.com>
        >
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Found records and need help with a village name
        >
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Date: Wednesday, September 7, 2011, 8:00 PM
        >
        > Thank you John, I tried that and no luck. I've always joked that my
        > grandfather just made up this name :)
        >
        > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >>> Hopefully these will be added in the future as well as additional
        > records for Nagylevard/Velke Levare. <<<
        >
        > >
        >
        > > You can determine the availability of ALL church records at the old LDS
        > web site: www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
        >
        > >
        >
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