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RE: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.

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  • Paul M. Paulochik
    There are many ways to spot an American in Eastern Europe - and I m sure some of our experienced travelers can confirm the following examples. When we were in
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 4 8:07 AM
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      There are many ways to spot an American in Eastern Europe - and I'm sure some of our experienced travelers can confirm the following examples. When we were in Russia 8 years ago to adopt our children, we stood out for two things - haircuts and weight. My hair, though not long by any stretch, was too long, and my wife's hair was too thick. But even before noticing hair, we stood out because of weight. Everyone over there was either very thin, model-quality thin, or too-big-to-get-your-arms-around obese. Nobody was just plain fat or overweight, it was one extreme or the other.



      -----Original Message-----
      <<<<>>>>>

      They are, however, interested in American Slovaks who come back to
      Slovakia and, if the person speaks the language, there is nothing that
      they will not do for him. On one of my trips to Slovakia, I was not
      allowed to spend any money. In fact, I spent a total of $12.41 over
      three weeks.


      The one thing that has interested me, is how they know I am an
      American. It is not a matter of an accent or a pronunciation since even
      people who have not spoken to me, take me for an American. I attended a
      wedding in Oravice in October, 2008. Following the ceremony, I
      overheard two men in the crowd referring to me, wondering if that
      American understands Slovak.

      Bill Brna


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

      To visit your group on the web, go to:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

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    • Michael Mojher
      http://genforum.genealogy.com/hungary/messages/18033.html Genforum had a discussion on the surname. From: Nicole Pohancsek Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 4 9:49 AM
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        http://genforum.genealogy.com/hungary/messages/18033.html Genforum had a discussion on the surname.

        From: Nicole Pohancsek
        Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:46 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.


        Does Csek have the same meaning as Csik? My husband's family's name is Pohancsek. Someone once told me that POHAN mean's pagan and that csek might mean they were Czechoslovakian, but I don't know if it that is correct. We have only found one other POHANCSEK in the entire world and he lives in Budapest. Unfortunately he had 2 daughters and my husband is the only boy in his family and we have two daughters, so the name dies with my husband unless we can find other Pohancsek's in the world.

        Thank you in advance,
        Nicole Lodyga Pohancsek

        ________________________________
        From: Elaine <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net>
        To: "mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.


        Bill,

        If the csik/čik is a diminutive, then your surname means "little Frank" the way my surname Kolarcsik/Kolarčik means "little wheelwright" or something to that effect. Despite comments from this forum, I kept searching for the generation in which father and son had the same given name and occupation, and so "csik" was added to the son's last name. I never found it in the church records, which dated to the mid-1700s. (Of course, based on your info about timeframes for the development of surnames, there are two more centuries in which it could have happened!)

        Just as you have found, in earlier years, my Ferenc surname was also spelled Ferencz or Ferents, and occasionally had an "i" added at the end. Any thoughts on why that was?

        You may have ideas on another aspect of my Ferencz family. As I traced all the Johns, Georges, and Andrews back in time, I noticed that George's line was designated as "inquilinus" but all the others were designated as "colonus." (That certainly explains why George came to America in the 1880s!) In earlier records, as you may have seen in your own lines, the priest did not always record that information. My question is, what would cause one branch of the family to have a lower status than the rest? (I also realize the "George" line may actually be a different Ferenc family entirely, but for argument's sake, let's assume they are all one family.)

        I welcome thoughts/comments from you and other members of this forum!

        Elaine

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:43 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com> wrote:

        > On 9/3/2011 1:21 PM, Elaine wrote:
        > >
        > > Oh hello Bill, I must have been pretty tired last night to have been
        > > thrown off by your formal name!
        > >
        > > My Ferenc family is farther south and east, and it is probably a
        > > pretty common name--although I haven't seen it that much in my
        > > ancestral towns. I guess I was hoping that if we were related, I'd be
        > > able to roll my r's and then pronounce B-r-r-r-na correctly!
        > >
        > > Elaine
        > >
        > > Sent from my iPhone
        > >
        > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:27 AM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
        > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
        > >
        > > > On 9/2/2011 9:26 PM, Elaine wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > William, I have Ferencz members in my family also, and they were all
        > > > > John, George and Andrew! No aliases that I have found, though.
        > > > >
        > > > > Where are yours located?
        > > > >
        > > > > Elaine
        > > > >
        > > > > Sent from my iPhone
        > > > >
        > > > > On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:59 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
        > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>
        > > > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Oops! This should have been addressed to SLOVAK-ROOTS
        > > > > >
        > > > > > My mother's name was Tereza Ferenc~ik. Her father's name was Jan
        > > > > > Ferenc~ik. At the same time, there were three other men whose names
        > > > > > were identical, living in the same village. In order to distinguish
        > > > > > which Jan Ferenc~ik, one was referring to, they were given
        > > aliases. I
        > > > > > do not know what the aliases stood for, however, my grandfather was
        > > > > > known as Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos. The other three were Jan Ferenc~ik
        > > > > > Kachut, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, and Jan Ferenc~ik Matylak. The
        > > headstone
        > > > > > on my grandfather's grave gives prominence to Kornos rather than his
        > > > > > actual surname.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > William F. Brna
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > Elaine,
        > > >
        > > > My mother was born in Krasna Horka, which is now part of Tvrdos~in. I
        > > > have traced my mother's family back to Jozef Ferencsik, who was born
        > > > about 1760. I have been privileged to have been in the house in which
        > > > my mother was born. It is still owned by a relative, the widow of
        > > > Eduard Ferenc~ik.
        > > >
        > > > Bill Brna
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > Elaine,
        >
        > Rolling "r's" is no big deal. My favorite word in Slovak is
        > "zmrtvychstanie" meaning "resurrection". There are 14 letters, the
        > first ten of which are consonants.
        >
        > While I am not certain, I believe that "Ference" is of Hungarian
        > origin. I have no idea whether there is a connection (other than
        > linguistic) between Ferenc~ik and Ference. I know only that my
        > ancestors, at least since 1760, used the name Ferenc~ik (spelled also
        > Ferentsik, Ferencsik, depending on the interpretation of the person
        > writing the name).
        >
        > Prior to the fifteenth century, surnames were not common among other
        > than the nobility. Since virtually everybody else were peasants, it
        > really didn't matter whether there were more than one Jan, Jozef, Maria,
        > etc. It was only with the decline of serfdom that it was necessary to
        > know which Jan or Jozef or Maria had paid taxes. The early surnames were
        > primarily occupational, e. g. Jan (the) Miller, Jozef (the) Farmer, etc.
        >
        > Bill Brna
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tom geiss
        Here s one thing that could tip them off. A friend of mine in Bratislava told me that he can t understand why Ameicans don t take off their shoes when they
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 4 11:14 AM
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          Here's one thing that could tip them off. A friend of mine in Bratislava told me that he can't understand why Ameicans don't take off their shoes when they enter someone's house.
          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Paul M. Paulochik
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:07 AM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.



          There are many ways to spot an American in Eastern Europe - and I'm sure some of our experienced travelers can confirm the following examples. When we were in Russia 8 years ago to adopt our children, we stood out for two things - haircuts and weight. My hair, though not long by any stretch, was too long, and my wife's hair was too thick. But even before noticing hair, we stood out because of weight. Everyone over there was either very thin, model-quality thin, or too-big-to-get-your-arms-around obese. Nobody was just plain fat or overweight, it was one extreme or the other.

          -----Original Message-----
          <<<<>>>>>

          They are, however, interested in American Slovaks who come back to
          Slovakia and, if the person speaks the language, there is nothing that
          they will not do for him. On one of my trips to Slovakia, I was not
          allowed to spend any money. In fact, I spent a total of $12.41 over
          three weeks.

          The one thing that has interested me, is how they know I am an
          American. It is not a matter of an accent or a pronunciation since even
          people who have not spoken to me, take me for an American. I attended a
          wedding in Oravice in October, 2008. Following the ceremony, I
          overheard two men in the crowd referring to me, wondering if that
          American understands Slovak.

          Bill Brna

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Mojher
          Since some thought this surname may be the root to Pohancsek I pass this information on from the 1995 Slovak Census. As you see there are two spellings of the
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 4 2:08 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Since some thought this surname may be the root to Pohancsek I pass this information on from the 1995 Slovak Census. As you see there are two spellings of the name, both have a dialect mark above the “c” and the first one above the “I”. Between the two name there are only 125 listings in 45 locations. Notice all but three locations are in the Orkes / District of Cadca. From this evidence I think you can presume Orkes Cadca is the “home” of this surname.
            You have two issues. These surnames may be spelled the same, but they are pronounced differently. In Slovakia that would mean that there is no genealogical link between the two. They are two separate families. Second, if you do not know your ancestral village you cannot determine if one of these surnames my be yours.
            Priezvisko POHANČENÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 113×, celkový počet lokalít: 37, najčastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
            ČADCA, okr. ČADCA – 14×;
            U HLUŠKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 13×;
            ČADEČKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 10×;
            DRAHOŠANKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 8×;
            RAKOVÁ, okr. ČADCA – 5×;
            STAŠKOV, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
            STARÁ BYSTRICA, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
            SVRČINOVEC, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
            ČIERNE, okr. ČADCA – 3×;
            ŽILINA, okr. ŽILINA – 3×;
            ...

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Priezvisko POHANČENIK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 12×, celkový počet lokalít: 8, v lokalitách:
            ZÁKOPČIE STRED (obec ZÁKOPČIE), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
            PODZÁVOZ (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
            U HLUŠKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
            NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
            STARÁ BYSTRICA, okr. ČADCA – 1×;
            SVRČINOVEC, okr. ČADCA – 1×;
            DRAHOŠANKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 1×;
            DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 1×;

            From the Ellis Island listings I got these:
            1850 Polomka BR/BC gemer.
            1773, 1786, 1888–1902 Polonka, 1808 Polomka, Polónka, 1863–1882 Polomka, 1907–1913 Garamszécs, 1920 Polomka, Polonka, 1927– Polomka

            2020 Rovensko SE/TA nitr.
            1773, 1808 Rovenszko, Rowensko, 1786 Rowenszko, 1863 Rovenszko, 1873–1907 Rovenszkó, 1913 Berencsróna, 1920– Rovensko

            From: Michael Mojher
            Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 9:49 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Pohancsek


            http://genforum.genealogy.com/hungary/messages/18033.html Genforum had a discussion on the surname.

            From: Nicole Pohancsek
            Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:46 AM
            To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.

            Does Csek have the same meaning as Csik? My husband's family's name is Pohancsek. Someone once told me that POHAN mean's pagan and that csek might mean they were Czechoslovakian, but I don't know if it that is correct. We have only found one other POHANCSEK in the entire world and he lives in Budapest. Unfortunately he had 2 daughters and my husband is the only boy in his family and we have two daughters, so the name dies with my husband unless we can find other Pohancsek's in the world.

            Thank you in advance,
            Nicole Lodyga Pohancsek

            ________________________________
            From: Elaine <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net>
            To: "mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.

            Bill,

            If the csik/čik is a diminutive, then your surname means "little Frank" the way my surname Kolarcsik/Kolarčik means "little wheelwright" or something to that effect. Despite comments from this forum, I kept searching for the generation in which father and son had the same given name and occupation, and so "csik" was added to the son's last name. I never found it in the church records, which dated to the mid-1700s. (Of course, based on your info about timeframes for the development of surnames, there are two more centuries in which it could have happened!)

            Just as you have found, in earlier years, my Ferenc surname was also spelled Ferencz or Ferents, and occasionally had an "i" added at the end. Any thoughts on why that was?

            You may have ideas on another aspect of my Ferencz family. As I traced all the Johns, Georges, and Andrews back in time, I noticed that George's line was designated as "inquilinus" but all the others were designated as "colonus." (That certainly explains why George came to America in the 1880s!) In earlier records, as you may have seen in your own lines, the priest did not always record that information. My question is, what would cause one branch of the family to have a lower status than the rest? (I also realize the "George" line may actually be a different Ferenc family entirely, but for argument's sake, let's assume they are all one family.)

            I welcome thoughts/comments from you and other members of this forum!

            Elaine

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:43 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com> wrote:

            > On 9/3/2011 1:21 PM, Elaine wrote:
            > >
            > > Oh hello Bill, I must have been pretty tired last night to have been
            > > thrown off by your formal name!
            > >
            > > My Ferenc family is farther south and east, and it is probably a
            > > pretty common name--although I haven't seen it that much in my
            > > ancestral towns. I guess I was hoping that if we were related, I'd be
            > > able to roll my r's and then pronounce B-r-r-r-na correctly!
            > >
            > > Elaine
            > >
            > > Sent from my iPhone
            > >
            > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:27 AM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
            > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
            > >
            > > > On 9/2/2011 9:26 PM, Elaine wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > William, I have Ferencz members in my family also, and they were all
            > > > > John, George and Andrew! No aliases that I have found, though.
            > > > >
            > > > > Where are yours located?
            > > > >
            > > > > Elaine
            > > > >
            > > > > Sent from my iPhone
            > > > >
            > > > > On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:59 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
            > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>
            > > > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Oops! This should have been addressed to SLOVAK-ROOTS
            > > > > >
            > > > > > My mother's name was Tereza Ferenc~ik. Her father's name was Jan
            > > > > > Ferenc~ik. At the same time, there were three other men whose names
            > > > > > were identical, living in the same village. In order to distinguish
            > > > > > which Jan Ferenc~ik, one was referring to, they were given
            > > aliases. I
            > > > > > do not know what the aliases stood for, however, my grandfather was
            > > > > > known as Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos. The other three were Jan Ferenc~ik
            > > > > > Kachut, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, and Jan Ferenc~ik Matylak. The
            > > headstone
            > > > > > on my grandfather's grave gives prominence to Kornos rather than his
            > > > > > actual surname.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > William F. Brna
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > Elaine,
            > > >
            > > > My mother was born in Krasna Horka, which is now part of Tvrdos~in. I
            > > > have traced my mother's family back to Jozef Ferencsik, who was born
            > > > about 1760. I have been privileged to have been in the house in which
            > > > my mother was born. It is still owned by a relative, the widow of
            > > > Eduard Ferenc~ik.
            > > >
            > > > Bill Brna
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > Elaine,
            >
            > Rolling "r's" is no big deal. My favorite word in Slovak is
            > "zmrtvychstanie" meaning "resurrection". There are 14 letters, the
            > first ten of which are consonants.
            >
            > While I am not certain, I believe that "Ference" is of Hungarian
            > origin. I have no idea whether there is a connection (other than
            > linguistic) between Ferenc~ik and Ference. I know only that my
            > ancestors, at least since 1760, used the name Ferenc~ik (spelled also
            > Ferentsik, Ferencsik, depending on the interpretation of the person
            > writing the name).
            >
            > Prior to the fifteenth century, surnames were not common among other
            > than the nobility. Since virtually everybody else were peasants, it
            > really didn't matter whether there were more than one Jan, Jozef, Maria,
            > etc. It was only with the decline of serfdom that it was necessary to
            > know which Jan or Jozef or Maria had paid taxes. The early surnames were
            > primarily occupational, e. g. Jan (the) Miller, Jozef (the) Farmer, etc.
            >
            > Bill Brna
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nicole Pohancsek
            The gen forum link is my husband Gene:)  My husband s grandparents came to the US in 1951 from Budapest Hungary.  His grandfather s mother was from Újpest,
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 4 4:12 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              The gen forum link is my husband Gene:)  My husband's grandparents came to the US in 1951 from Budapest Hungary.  His grandfather's mother was from Újpest, Pest-Pilis-Solt-Kis-Kun, Hungary and his grandmother (maiden name Horvath) was from Ozora, Hungary.  His Uncle (that still lives in Budapest) spells his name POHANCSEK, but unfortunately does not know any information on the name or family history.
              Nicole Lodyga Pohancsek




              ________________________________
              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:08 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Pohancsek


               
              Since some thought this surname may be the root to Pohancsek I pass this information on from the 1995 Slovak Census. As you see there are two spellings of the name, both have a dialect mark above the “c” and the first one above the “I”. Between the two name there are only 125 listings in 45 locations. Notice all but three locations are in the Orkes / District of Cadca. From this evidence I think you can presume Orkes Cadca is the “home” of this surname.
              You have two issues. These surnames may be spelled the same, but they are pronounced differently. In Slovakia that would mean that there is no genealogical link between the two. They are two separate families. Second, if you do not know your ancestral village you cannot determine if one of these surnames my be yours.
              Priezvisko POHANČENÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 113×, celkový počet lokalít: 37, najčastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
              ČADCA, okr. ČADCA – 14×;
              U HLUŠKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 13×;
              ČADEČKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 10×;
              DRAHOŠANKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 8×;
              RAKOVÁ, okr. ČADCA – 5×;
              STAŠKOV, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
              STARÁ BYSTRICA, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
              SVRČINOVEC, okr. ČADCA – 4×;
              ČIERNE, okr. ČADCA – 3×;
              ŽILINA, okr. ŽILINA – 3×;
              ...

              ----------------------------------------------------------

              Priezvisko POHANČENIK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 12×, celkový počet lokalít: 8, v lokalitách:
              ZÁKOPČIE STRED (obec ZÁKOPČIE), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
              PODZÁVOZ (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
              U HLUŠKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 2×;
              NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
              STARÁ BYSTRICA, okr. ČADCA – 1×;
              SVRČINOVEC, okr. ČADCA – 1×;
              DRAHOŠANKA (obec ČADCA), okr. ČADCA – 1×;
              DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 1×;

              From the Ellis Island listings I got these:
              1850 Polomka BR/BC gemer.
              1773, 1786, 1888–1902 Polonka, 1808 Polomka, Polónka, 1863–1882 Polomka, 1907–1913 Garamszécs, 1920 Polomka, Polonka, 1927– Polomka

              2020 Rovensko SE/TA nitr.
              1773, 1808 Rovenszko, Rowensko, 1786 Rowenszko, 1863 Rovenszko, 1873–1907 Rovenszkó, 1913 Berencsróna, 1920– Rovensko

              From: Michael Mojher
              Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 9:49 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Pohancsek

              http://genforum.genealogy.com/hungary/messages/18033.html Genforum had a discussion on the surname.

              From: Nicole Pohancsek
              Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:46 AM
              To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.

              Does Csek have the same meaning as Csik? My husband's family's name is Pohancsek. Someone once told me that POHAN mean's pagan and that csek might mean they were Czechoslovakian, but I don't know if it that is correct. We have only found one other POHANCSEK in the entire world and he lives in Budapest. Unfortunately he had 2 daughters and my husband is the only boy in his family and we have two daughters, so the name dies with my husband unless we can find other Pohancsek's in the world.

              Thank you in advance,
              Nicole Lodyga Pohancsek

              ________________________________
              From: Elaine <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net>
              To: "mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Fwd: Re: Surname Change.

              Bill,

              If the csik/čik is a diminutive, then your surname means "little Frank" the way my surname Kolarcsik/Kolarčik means "little wheelwright" or something to that effect. Despite comments from this forum, I kept searching for the generation in which father and son had the same given name and occupation, and so "csik" was added to the son's last name. I never found it in the church records, which dated to the mid-1700s. (Of course, based on your info about timeframes for the development of surnames, there are two more centuries in which it could have happened!)

              Just as you have found, in earlier years, my Ferenc surname was also spelled Ferencz or Ferents, and occasionally had an "i" added at the end. Any thoughts on why that was?

              You may have ideas on another aspect of my Ferencz family. As I traced all the Johns, Georges, and Andrews back in time, I noticed that George's line was designated as "inquilinus" but all the others were designated as "colonus." (That certainly explains why George came to America in the 1880s!) In earlier records, as you may have seen in your own lines, the priest did not always record that information. My question is, what would cause one branch of the family to have a lower status than the rest? (I also realize the "George" line may actually be a different Ferenc family entirely, but for argument's sake, let's assume they are all one family.)

              I welcome thoughts/comments from you and other members of this forum!

              Elaine

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:43 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com> wrote:

              > On 9/3/2011 1:21 PM, Elaine wrote:
              > >
              > > Oh hello Bill, I must have been pretty tired last night to have been
              > > thrown off by your formal name!
              > >
              > > My Ferenc family is farther south and east, and it is probably a
              > > pretty common name--although I haven't seen it that much in my
              > > ancestral towns. I guess I was hoping that if we were related, I'd be
              > > able to roll my r's and then pronounce B-r-r-r-na correctly!
              > >
              > > Elaine
              > >
              > > Sent from my iPhone
              > >
              > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:27 AM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
              > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
              > >
              > > > On 9/2/2011 9:26 PM, Elaine wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > William, I have Ferencz members in my family also, and they were all
              > > > > John, George and Andrew! No aliases that I have found, though.
              > > > >
              > > > > Where are yours located?
              > > > >
              > > > > Elaine
              > > > >
              > > > > Sent from my iPhone
              > > > >
              > > > > On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:59 PM, William <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com
              > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>
              > > > > <mailto:wfbrna%40gmail.com>> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Oops! This should have been addressed to SLOVAK-ROOTS
              > > > > >
              > > > > > My mother's name was Tereza Ferenc~ik. Her father's name was Jan
              > > > > > Ferenc~ik. At the same time, there were three other men whose names
              > > > > > were identical, living in the same village. In order to distinguish
              > > > > > which Jan Ferenc~ik, one was referring to, they were given
              > > aliases. I
              > > > > > do not know what the aliases stood for, however, my grandfather was
              > > > > > known as Jan Ferenc~ik Kornos. The other three were Jan Ferenc~ik
              > > > > > Kachut, Jan Ferenc~ik Gresso, and Jan Ferenc~ik Matylak. The
              > > headstone
              > > > > > on my grandfather's grave gives prominence to Kornos rather than his
              > > > > > actual surname.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > William F. Brna
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > Elaine,
              > > >
              > > > My mother was born in Krasna Horka, which is now part of Tvrdos~in. I
              > > > have traced my mother's family back to Jozef Ferencsik, who was born
              > > > about 1760. I have been privileged to have been in the house in which
              > > > my mother was born. It is still owned by a relative, the widow of
              > > > Eduard Ferenc~ik.
              > > >
              > > > Bill Brna
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > Elaine,
              >
              > Rolling "r's" is no big deal. My favorite word in Slovak is
              > "zmrtvychstanie" meaning "resurrection". There are 14 letters, the
              > first ten of which are consonants.
              >
              > While I am not certain, I believe that "Ference" is of Hungarian
              > origin. I have no idea whether there is a connection (other than
              > linguistic) between Ferenc~ik and Ference. I know only that my
              > ancestors, at least since 1760, used the name Ferenc~ik (spelled also
              > Ferentsik, Ferencsik, depending on the interpretation of the person
              > writing the name).
              >
              > Prior to the fifteenth century, surnames were not common among other
              > than the nobility. Since virtually everybody else were peasants, it
              > really didn't matter whether there were more than one Jan, Jozef, Maria,
              > etc. It was only with the decline of serfdom that it was necessary to
              > know which Jan or Jozef or Maria had paid taxes. The early surnames were
              > primarily occupational, e. g. Jan (the) Miller, Jozef (the) Farmer, etc.
              >
              > Bill Brna
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

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