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Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please

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  • Peg's Gmail
    Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn t extract them as they didn t relate to the Ivanyo family I m working on, but one had an f (or s) in the
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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      Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.

      Peg


      On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:

      > Peg,
      >
      > It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
      >
      > I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
      >
      > Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
      > >
      > > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
      > >
      > > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
      > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
      > >
      > > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
      > >
      > > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
      > >
      > > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
      > >
      > > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
      > >
      > > Peg
      > >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine
      Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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        Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for sure it was a double "s."

        Elaine

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Aug 4, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

        > Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.
        >
        > Peg
        >
        >
        > On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:
        >
        >> Peg,
        >>
        >> It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
        >>
        >> I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
        >>
        >> Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
        >>
        >> Curt B.
        >>
        >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
        >>>
        >>> The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
        >>>
        >>> I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
        >>> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
        >>>
        >>> Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
        >>>
        >>> Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
        >>>
        >>> Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
        >>>
        >>> Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
        >>>
        >>> Peg
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • htcstech
        Regarding Social Status for Latin records: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm That cleared up a few questions for me. Peter ... [Non-text
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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          Regarding Social Status for Latin records:

          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

          That cleared up a few questions for me.

          Peter

          On 5 August 2011 02:25, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few
          > more related questions if I may:
          >
          > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and
          > Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
          >
          > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94,
          > entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was
          > looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in
          > the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s
          > for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria?
          > That record may be found at:
          >
          > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
          >
          > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place.
          > It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't
          > the case.
          >
          > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is
          > this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov?
          > I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and
          > also with what may be a double s.
          >
          > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned
          > and farmed land?
          >
          > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
          >
          > Peg
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Karen C
          Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
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            Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  

            https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List


            Hope this is of some assistance.  

            Karen





            >________________________________
            >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
            >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
            >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
            >
            >

            >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
            >
            >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
            >
            >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
            >
            >Thanks!
            >
            >Peg
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John Venham
            Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian. Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
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              Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.

              Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning - mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way" "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.

              Hopefully someone else can help more.

              John

              "The Journey is the Reward"

              --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:

              From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
              Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
              To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
















               









              Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  



              https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List



              Hope this is of some assistance.  



              Karen



              >________________________________

              >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>

              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

              >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM

              >Subject: [S-R] help with record please

              >

              >



              >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.

              >

              >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

              >

              >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?

              >

              >Thanks!

              >

              >Peg

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • htcstech
              Hello John, That s a valuable interpretation - ie that maske(p) - maskep could mean other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
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                Hello John,

                That's a valuable interpretation - ie that 'maske(p) - maskep could mean
                other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
                'torvenytelen' meaning illegal somewhere in that record.

                Back to Latin, I also had two interesting entries in death records with the
                word 'ignatu' under the name of the deceased children. The 'parent' did not
                have the same surname as the dead. I can only presume that this parent was
                caretaking these children as their own biological parents died beforehand.

                Peter

                On 9 August 2011 11:49, John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.
                >
                > Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears
                > truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning -
                > mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way"
                > "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might
                > mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or
                > perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.
                >
                > Hopefully someone else can help more.
                >
                > John
                >
                > "The Journey is the Reward"
                >
                > --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hello Peg, We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to
                > help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
                > language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.
                >
                >
                > https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List
                >
                > Hope this is of some assistance.
                >
                > Karen
                >
                > >________________________________
                >
                > >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
                >
                > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
                >
                > >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If
                > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                >
                > >
                >
                > >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above
                > the parent's names and what do they mean?
                >
                > >
                >
                > >Thanks!
                >
                > >
                >
                > >Peg
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • deeellessbee
                Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g g g grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 21, 2011
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                  Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.

                  Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.

                  It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!

                  P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.

                  Thanks!
                  Debbie
                • deeellessbee
                  Anybody??
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
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                    Anybody??

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                    >
                    > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                    >
                    > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                    >
                    > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    > Debbie
                    >
                  • Samuel Ontko
                    Debbie I agree with the couples names. You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted. Sam From: deeellessbee Sent: Friday, November
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
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                      Debbie

                      I agree with the couples names.

                      You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.

                      Sam

                      From: deeellessbee
                      Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please


                      Anybody??

                      --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                      >
                      > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                      >
                      > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                      >
                      > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                      >
                      > Thanks!
                      > Debbie
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • deeellessbee
                      Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn t have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else -
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 26, 2011
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                        Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?

                        Thank you for any further help!
                        Debbie

                        P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Debbie
                        >
                        > I agree with the couples names.
                        >
                        > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                        >
                        > Sam
                        >
                        > From: deeellessbee
                        > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                        >
                        >
                        > Anybody??
                        >
                        > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                        > >
                        > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                        > >
                        > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                        > >
                        > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks!
                        > > Debbie
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • deeellessbee
                        Any further help please? Thank you! Debbie
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
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                          Any further help please? Thank you!

                          Debbie

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                          >
                          > Thank you for any further help!
                          > Debbie
                          >
                          > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Debbie
                          > >
                          > > I agree with the couples names.
                          > >
                          > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                          > >
                          > > Sam
                          > >
                          > > From: deeellessbee
                          > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Anybody??
                          > >
                          > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                          > > >
                          > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                          > > >
                          > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                          > > >
                          > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks!
                          > > > Debbie
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • htcstech
                          Hi Debbie, I ve picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what I ve
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Debbie,
                            I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                            Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                            I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                            The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                            - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                            the place of residence.
                            The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                            The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                            and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                            (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                            above.
                            The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                            presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                            would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                            The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                            The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                            that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                            George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                            Hope that helps.

                            Can someone else check?

                            Link:
                            https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                            Peter


                            On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Any further help please? Thank you!
                            >
                            > Debbie
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                            > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                            > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                            > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                            > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                            > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                            > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                            > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                            > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                            > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                            > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                            > >
                            > > Thank you for any further help!
                            > > Debbie
                            > >
                            > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                            > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Debbie
                            > > >
                            > > > I agree with the couples names.
                            > > >
                            > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                            > omitted.
                            > > >
                            > > > Sam
                            > > >
                            > > > From: deeellessbee
                            > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Anybody??
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                            > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                            > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                            > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                            > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                            > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                            > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                            > assistance.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                            > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                            > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                            > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                            > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                            > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                            > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thanks!
                            > > > > Debbie
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • lacoros@gmail.com
                            ... From: htcstech Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10 To: Reply-To:
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
                              Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10
                              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                              Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please

                              Hi Debbie,
                              I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                              Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                              I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                              The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                              - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                              the place of residence.
                              The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                              The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                              and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                              (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                              above.
                              The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                              presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                              would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                              The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                              The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                              that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                              George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                              Hope that helps.

                              Can someone else check?

                              Link:
                              https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                              Peter


                              On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Any further help please? Thank you!
                              >
                              > Debbie
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                              > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                              > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                              > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                              > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                              > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                              > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                              > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                              > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                              > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                              > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                              > >
                              > > Thank you for any further help!
                              > > Debbie
                              > >
                              > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                              > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Debbie
                              > > >
                              > > > I agree with the couples names.
                              > > >
                              > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                              > omitted.
                              > > >
                              > > > Sam
                              > > >
                              > > > From: deeellessbee
                              > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                              > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Anybody??
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                              > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                              > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                              > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                              > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                              > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                              > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                              > assistance.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                              > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                              > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                              > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                              > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                              > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                              > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks!
                              > > > > Debbie
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

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                            • Ladislav Rosival
                              The heading of collumn 6 is Az Oszse (-) Ado Egy (-) Házi Személly Todays hungarian would say: Az összeadó Egyházi Személly Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                The heading of collumn 6 is

                                Az
                                Oszse (-)
                                Ado Egy (-)
                                Házi
                                Személly

                                Todays hungarian would say:
                                Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly

                                Translation:
                                Church Person who served as registrar

                                The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                same

                                The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                could be Mihaly and Janos.

                                I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.

                                Ladislav


                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                >
                                > Hi Debbie,
                                > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                > what
                                > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                >
                                > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                > host
                                > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                > for
                                > the place of residence.
                                > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                > name
                                > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                > just
                                > above.
                                > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                > that I
                                > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                > which
                                > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                > that'.
                                > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                > legal.
                                > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                > say
                                > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                >
                                > Hope that helps.
                                >
                                > Can someone else check?
                                >
                                > Link:
                                > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                >
                                > Peter
                                >
                                >
                                > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                > >
                                > > Debbie
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                > <deeellessbee@...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                > have
                                > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                > or
                                > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                > figure out
                                > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                > the
                                > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                > towns
                                > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                > for
                                > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                > column
                                > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                > like
                                > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                > the
                                > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                > > >
                                > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                > > > Debbie
                                > > >
                                > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                > under
                                > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Debbie
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                > > omitted.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Sam
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Anybody??
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                > my
                                > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                > his
                                > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                > certificate
                                > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                > catch my
                                > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                > and
                                > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                > > assistance.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                > and
                                > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                > I'm
                                > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                > are
                                > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                > correct?
                                > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Thanks!
                                > > > > > Debbie
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • deeellessbee
                                Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn t
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 30, 2011
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                                  Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses' given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn't sure if this was usual practice (2 male witnesses).

                                  Can I infer anything by the fact that Gyorgy and Janos were married on the same day? Brothers, perhaps? Or just as likely just coincidence?

                                  Gee, I sure wish the ages and parents were on this record - or on Gyorgy's, for that matter. After finding this record I realized this is about 18 to 20 years before the birth of my g'g'grandmother, and I thought this record was for her parents. Still possible of course, but now it has me less certain.

                                  BTW, for some reason I didn't think we could put links in our posts. From now on I will link to anything I need help with. Thanks for putting that link in for me.

                                  Debbie

                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The heading of collumn 6 is
                                  >
                                  > Az
                                  > Oszse (-)
                                  > Ado Egy (-)
                                  > Házi
                                  > Személly
                                  >
                                  > Todays hungarian would say:
                                  > Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                  > Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                                  >
                                  > Translation:
                                  > Church Person who served as registrar
                                  >
                                  > The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                  > same
                                  >
                                  > The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                  > could be Mihaly and Janos.
                                  >
                                  > I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.
                                  >
                                  > Ladislav
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                  > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Debbie,
                                  > > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                  > > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                  > > what
                                  > > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                  > >
                                  > > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                  > > host
                                  > > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                  > > for
                                  > > the place of residence.
                                  > > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                  > > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                  > > name
                                  > > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                  > > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                  > > just
                                  > > above.
                                  > > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                  > > that I
                                  > > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                  > > which
                                  > > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                  > > that'.
                                  > > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                  > > legal.
                                  > > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                  > > say
                                  > > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                  > > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                  > >
                                  > > Hope that helps.
                                  > >
                                  > > Can someone else check?
                                  > >
                                  > > Link:
                                  > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                  > > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                  > >
                                  > > Peter
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > **
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Debbie
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                  > > <deeellessbee@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                  > > have
                                  > > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                  > > or
                                  > > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                  > > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                  > > figure out
                                  > > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                  > > the
                                  > > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                  > > towns
                                  > > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                  > > for
                                  > > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                  > > column
                                  > > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                  > > like
                                  > > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                  > > the
                                  > > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                  > > > > Debbie
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                  > > under
                                  > > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Debbie
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                  > > > omitted.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Sam
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                  > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                  > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Anybody??
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                  > > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                  > > my
                                  > > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                  > > his
                                  > > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                  > > certificate
                                  > > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                  > > catch my
                                  > > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                  > > and
                                  > > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                  > > > assistance.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                  > > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                  > > and
                                  > > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                  > > I'm
                                  > > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                  > > are
                                  > > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                  > > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                  > > correct?
                                  > > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Thanks!
                                  > > > > > > Debbie
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
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                                  >
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