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RE: [S-R] help with record please

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  • Ladislav Rosival
    Hello Peter, Bérmálo/bérmált are of course hungarian, they are derived from bérmálás = confirmation. The same way keresztelõ/keresztelt are derived
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
      Hello Peter,



      B�rm�lo/b�rm�lt are of course hungarian, they are derived from b�rm�l�s =
      confirmation.



      The same way keresztel�/keresztelt are derived from kereszts�g = baptism (or
      christening)





      So in this case Keresztel�/B�rm�l� is the person doing this sacrament -
      mostly the priest



      Keresztelt/B�rm�lt is the person receiving the sacrametn - child





      You can see it on the wikipedia:



      This link http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%ef%bf%bdrm%ef%bf%bdl%ef%bf%bds has a interwiki to
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation





      From the english wikipedia:



      Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Churches, and many
      Anglicans view Confirmation as a sacrament. In the East it is conferred on
      infants immediately after baptism, but in the West it is usually
      administered later at the age of reason or in early adolescence.





      In our case Greek-catholic is in the cathegory "East" and RC is in the
      category "West".



      Ladislav







      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of htcstech
      Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 1:41 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please





      Hello Ladislav!

      Thanks for the translations!

      I speak/read a little Hungarian and I couldn't see the wood for the trees!
      Maskep* = in other words or alternatively! So simple, if I could have read
      the last letter properly.

      The first word in the 3rd column is Keresztelo which means 'the person doing
      the christening or baptizer - the baptist'
      This is followed by 'es' = and
      then the word 'Bermalo'.
      Just using logic, bermalo should mean 'status' of the person doing the
      baptism as this is written after the name in the entry.
      I'm not saying you are wrong, but Keresztelo already takes care of the
      meaning you've given to bermalo.

      Is bermalo/bermalt Magyar? I can not understand this and I have not heard a
      similar word. In Magyar, there are too many words using the root of 'ber'.

      Peter

      *My uncle is bring me a Hungarian keyboard in about a month!

      2011/8/4 Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@... <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com> >

      > Hallo,
      >
      > The word "aldoz�r" means priest, the word "ujdonszentelt" newly
      consecrated
      > or ordinaired. It seems it was the son of the priest.
      >
      >
      > The word after Simko is "m�sk�p" (maskep) = in other words
      >
      > In the column 3 the word "b�rm�l�" (bermalo) means the person who is
      giving
      > the sacrament of confirmation (in the RC church is confirmation later in
      > age
      > about 14 years or even later, GK baptism and confirmation are given the
      > same
      > time).
      >
      > In the column 4 the word "b�rm�lt" means the person who is receiving the
      > scaramnet of confirmation.
      >
      > "�nnek sz�lei" means in this context his/her parents
      >
      > For me is quite interesting that there are 4 Godparents - Iv never seen
      > this
      > in a RC book, but it seems common in GK (at least in this book) - perhaps
      > two of them for baptism and two for the confirmation.
      >
      >
      > Ladislav
      >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-
      > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
      htcstech
      > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:45 AM
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>

      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > > Though I'm new at this, I've been working out heaps of RK images in the
      > > same
      > > year ranges over the last few weeks.
      > > The page is written in Hungarian, and I've managed to translate most of
      > > it
      > > for you, but 'Simko maskes' is not Hungarian or Latin. I have noticed
      > > that
      > > the Fathers did use colloquial or pig Latin or abbreviated Latin. I
      > > would
      > > safely ignore it if you can.
      > >
      > > For your information the following is a transcript of the lettering:
      > >
      > > Column 3 Christener: Kamminszky Janos (John Kamminszky) - Then
      > > underneath it
      > > is written: ujdonszentel aldozar which is Hungarian but means nothing
      > > in the
      > > form it is written, but can be written as Ujdon szent (el) aldoz(at)
      > > which
      > > sort of means ' a victim of the novelty' - in very loose terms, but I
      > > think
      > > it could be a ranking, maybe novitiate.
      > > 'ujdom szentelt �ldozat' means 'novelty dedicated to sacrifice' which
      > > is
      > > more in line with religion.
      > >
      > > It helps to know that fz is sz and the lower case t is very small,
      > > looking
      > > like a sloped + sign.
      > >
      > > Bermalo is untranslatable - may be a GK term - malo means choice in
      > > Latin.
      > >
      > > Column 4 Kersetelu (a ,, is equal to a hypen): is Pal (the Christian
      > > Name)
      > > Column 5 Onnek Szulei (Your Parents): Under 'Simko maskes' is: Ivanyouv
      > > Bal
      > > (Bal is short for Balint which is the English name Valentine).
      > > Then the mother is Suszter Maria
      > > Column 6: Both GK
      > > Column 7: Telkes Gazda - means Owns and works land. (this is good by
      > > the
      > > way.) In latin you may have seen Colonus = landowner, Inquilus = owns a
      > > small parcel of land and house, Subinquilus = No house or land,
      > > Libertini -
      > > Free from duties and taxes and lastly, Mendicus - Beggar.
      > > There is also Cigany (different versions of spelling) - Gypsy (Romani -
      > > from
      > > India), however there is a village of similar name in Cseh.
      > > You may also find Soltys - Village founder, but that is very rare.
      > >
      > > Column 7 Kerest Atya es Anya (Godfather and Mother): Valyiszka Janos
      > > (John)
      > > and Lyevkus Georgy (George), Szincsak Anna and Koczsis Anna
      > > Column 8 Szarmazasi Helyi Keresztelnek (place of origin of the child
      > > and
      > > parents): Zavatka
      > >
      > > Other: A christening naming tradition is: 1st son is named after the
      > > father,
      > > 2nd son after the grandfather, 3rd son after the grandfather of the
      > > bride
      > > (wife).
      > > 1st daughter is Maria, 2nd is Anna, third is Helena. Generally others
      > > after
      > > saints.
      > >
      > > Hava means month and you may find liturgical months like St Michael etc
      > > instead of the Georgian names.
      > > Notice also that children are baptised rapidly! often the same day they
      > > were
      > > born.
      > >
      > > Hopefully someone else may know what Simko maskes means.
      > >
      > > Regards
      > >
      > > Peter
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On 4 August 2011 14:28, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...
      <mailto:pegivanyo%40gmail.com> > wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a
      > > record. If
      > > > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of
      > > you.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family
      > > search.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-
      > > 66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
      > > >
      > > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word
      > > above
      > > > the parent's names and what do they mean?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks!
      > > >
      > > > Peg
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Peter Martyn
      > > Trading as
      > > Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
      > > ABN: 38677221998
      > > Phone: 0248898352
      > > Fax: 0248899651
      > > Mobile: 0435437070
      > > Email: htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com>
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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    • MagTon Media
      You will not need Latin class for this one . It appears that it s in Hungarian . I have two ideas on this record : PAL , the infant , may have the surname of
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
        You will not need Latin class for this one . It appears that it's in Hungarian .

        I have two ideas on this record : PAL , the infant , may have the surname of SIMKO ......but may be adopted ( ?? ) by Pal Ivanyov & Maria Szuszer. OR PAL IVANYOV was born to PAL SIMKO alias IVANYOV which is the likely answer because the word MASKENT means " alias " or it's another name someone is called in this village .

        So in this village , the father is likely called Paul Simko Ivanyov . His occupation is Landowner , farmer of small landplot .

        Does anyone else have ideas on that use of " MASKENT " for alias ?

        Magda

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
        >
        > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
        >
        > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
        >
        > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Peg
        >
      • Peg's Gmail
        Well, there is a new one for me. I m wasn t sure the Ivanyov s linked into the line I m working on. And the fact that used to be Timko should solidfy that
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
          Well, there is a new one for me. I'm wasn't sure the Ivanyov's linked into the line I'm working on. And the fact that used to be Timko should solidfy that they don't.

          Ivanyov is a spelling of a surname that started showing up on these records in the past twenty year period; I hadn't seen it in this village before. I thought it a bit odd. Perhaps they were required to use Ivanyov since Ivanyo was already in existence in the village in order to maintain some kind of clarity? Any other ideas?

          Thanks! I'd been going back and forth from Hungarian word lists to Latin word lists and apparently missed this one.

          Peg


          On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:58 PM, CurtB wrote:

          > Peg,
          > Latin won't help in this case. The mysterious word is Hungarian. It means "alias"
          >
          > It says the parents names are
          >
          > Timko alias
          > Ivanyov Pal [and]
          > Suszter Maria
          >
          > So his name is Timko, but he uses an alias Ivanyov.
          >
          > Did Ivanyov become the family name, or did it remain Timko?
          >
          > Curt B.
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
          > >
          > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
          > >
          > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
          > >
          > > Thanks!
          > >
          > > Peg
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Peg's Gmail
          Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may: The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
            Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:

            The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.

            I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
            https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

            Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.

            Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.

            Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?

            Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.

            Peg
          • CurtB
            Peg, It really is Maria. This writer forms his r s a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final a
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
              Peg,

              It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".

              I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.

              Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.

              Curt B.

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
              >
              > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
              >
              > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
              > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
              >
              > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
              >
              > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
              >
              > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
              >
              > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
              >
              > Peg
              >
            • Peg's Gmail
              Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn t extract them as they didn t relate to the Ivanyo family I m working on, but one had an f (or s) in the
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
                Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.

                Peg


                On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:

                > Peg,
                >
                > It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
                >
                > I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
                >
                > Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
                >
                > Curt B.
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
                > >
                > > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                > >
                > > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                > >
                > > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
                > >
                > > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
                > >
                > > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
                > >
                > > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                > >
                > > Peg
                > >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Elaine
                Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
                  Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for sure it was a double "s."

                  Elaine

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Aug 4, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

                  > Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.
                  >
                  > Peg
                  >
                  >
                  > On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:
                  >
                  >> Peg,
                  >>
                  >> It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
                  >>
                  >> I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
                  >>
                  >> Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
                  >>
                  >> Curt B.
                  >>
                  >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
                  >>>
                  >>> The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                  >>>
                  >>> I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                  >>> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                  >>>
                  >>> Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
                  >>>
                  >>> Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
                  >>>
                  >>> Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
                  >>>
                  >>> Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                  >>>
                  >>> Peg
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  >
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                  >
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                • htcstech
                  Regarding Social Status for Latin records: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm That cleared up a few questions for me. Peter ... [Non-text
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
                    Regarding Social Status for Latin records:

                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

                    That cleared up a few questions for me.

                    Peter

                    On 5 August 2011 02:25, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few
                    > more related questions if I may:
                    >
                    > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and
                    > Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                    >
                    > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94,
                    > entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was
                    > looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in
                    > the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s
                    > for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria?
                    > That record may be found at:
                    >
                    > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                    >
                    > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place.
                    > It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't
                    > the case.
                    >
                    > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is
                    > this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov?
                    > I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and
                    > also with what may be a double s.
                    >
                    > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned
                    > and farmed land?
                    >
                    > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                    >
                    > Peg
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Karen C
                    Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
                      Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  

                      https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List


                      Hope this is of some assistance.  

                      Karen





                      >________________________________
                      >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
                      >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
                      >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
                      >
                      >

                      >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                      >
                      >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                      >
                      >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
                      >
                      >Thanks!
                      >
                      >Peg
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John Venham
                      Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian. Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
                        Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.

                        Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning - mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way" "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.

                        Hopefully someone else can help more.

                        John

                        "The Journey is the Reward"

                        --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:

                        From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                        To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
















                         









                        Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  



                        https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List



                        Hope this is of some assistance.  



                        Karen



                        >________________________________

                        >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>

                        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                        >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM

                        >Subject: [S-R] help with record please

                        >

                        >



                        >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.

                        >

                        >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

                        >

                        >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?

                        >

                        >Thanks!

                        >

                        >Peg

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • htcstech
                        Hello John, That s a valuable interpretation - ie that maske(p) - maskep could mean other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
                          Hello John,

                          That's a valuable interpretation - ie that 'maske(p) - maskep could mean
                          other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
                          'torvenytelen' meaning illegal somewhere in that record.

                          Back to Latin, I also had two interesting entries in death records with the
                          word 'ignatu' under the name of the deceased children. The 'parent' did not
                          have the same surname as the dead. I can only presume that this parent was
                          caretaking these children as their own biological parents died beforehand.

                          Peter

                          On 9 August 2011 11:49, John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.
                          >
                          > Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears
                          > truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning -
                          > mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way"
                          > "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might
                          > mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or
                          > perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.
                          >
                          > Hopefully someone else can help more.
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          > "The Journey is the Reward"
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                          > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello Peg, We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to
                          > help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
                          > language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.
                          >
                          >
                          > https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List
                          >
                          > Hope this is of some assistance.
                          >
                          > Karen
                          >
                          > >________________________________
                          >
                          > >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
                          >
                          > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
                          >
                          > >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If
                          > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above
                          > the parent's names and what do they mean?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >Thanks!
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >Peg
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • deeellessbee
                          Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g g g grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 21, 2011
                            Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.

                            Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.

                            It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!

                            P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.

                            Thanks!
                            Debbie
                          • deeellessbee
                            Anybody??
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
                              Anybody??

                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                              >
                              > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                              >
                              > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                              >
                              > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                              >
                              > Thanks!
                              > Debbie
                              >
                            • Samuel Ontko
                              Debbie I agree with the couples names. You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted. Sam From: deeellessbee Sent: Friday, November
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
                                Debbie

                                I agree with the couples names.

                                You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.

                                Sam

                                From: deeellessbee
                                Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please


                                Anybody??

                                --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                >
                                > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                >
                                > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                >
                                > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                >
                                > Thanks!
                                > Debbie
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • deeellessbee
                                Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn t have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else -
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 26, 2011
                                  Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?

                                  Thank you for any further help!
                                  Debbie

                                  P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!


                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Debbie
                                  >
                                  > I agree with the couples names.
                                  >
                                  > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                                  >
                                  > Sam
                                  >
                                  > From: deeellessbee
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Anybody??
                                  >
                                  > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                  > >
                                  > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                  > >
                                  > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                  > >
                                  > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks!
                                  > > Debbie
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • deeellessbee
                                  Any further help please? Thank you! Debbie
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                    Any further help please? Thank you!

                                    Debbie

                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                    >
                                    > Thank you for any further help!
                                    > Debbie
                                    >
                                    > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Debbie
                                    > >
                                    > > I agree with the couples names.
                                    > >
                                    > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                                    > >
                                    > > Sam
                                    > >
                                    > > From: deeellessbee
                                    > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Anybody??
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks!
                                    > > > Debbie
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • htcstech
                                    Hi Debbie, I ve picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what I ve
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                      Hi Debbie,
                                      I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                      Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                                      I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                                      The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                                      - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                                      the place of residence.
                                      The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                      The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                                      and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                      (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                                      above.
                                      The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                                      presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                                      would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                                      The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                                      The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                                      that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                      George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                                      Hope that helps.

                                      Can someone else check?

                                      Link:
                                      https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                                      Peter


                                      On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                      >
                                      > Debbie
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                                      > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                                      > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                      > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                                      > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                                      > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                                      > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                                      > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                                      > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                                      > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                                      > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                      > >
                                      > > Thank you for any further help!
                                      > > Debbie
                                      > >
                                      > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                                      > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Debbie
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                      > omitted.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Sam
                                      > > >
                                      > > > From: deeellessbee
                                      > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Anybody??
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                      > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                                      > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                                      > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                                      > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                                      > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                                      > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                      > assistance.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                      > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                                      > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                                      > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                                      > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                      > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                                      > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thanks!
                                      > > > > Debbie
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • lacoros@gmail.com
                                      ... From: htcstech Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10 To: Reply-To:
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
                                        Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10
                                        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please

                                        Hi Debbie,
                                        I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                        Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                                        I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                                        The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                                        - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                                        the place of residence.
                                        The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                        The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                                        and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                        (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                                        above.
                                        The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                                        presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                                        would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                                        The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                                        The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                                        that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                        George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                                        Hope that helps.

                                        Can someone else check?

                                        Link:
                                        https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                                        Peter


                                        On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                        >
                                        > Debbie
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                                        > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                                        > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                        > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                                        > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                                        > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                                        > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                                        > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                                        > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                                        > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                                        > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                        > >
                                        > > Thank you for any further help!
                                        > > Debbie
                                        > >
                                        > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                                        > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Debbie
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                        > omitted.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sam
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: deeellessbee
                                        > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                        > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Anybody??
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                        > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                                        > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                                        > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                                        > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                                        > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                                        > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                        > assistance.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                        > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                                        > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                                        > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                                        > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                        > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                                        > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks!
                                        > > > > Debbie
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------------------------------

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                                      • Ladislav Rosival
                                        The heading of collumn 6 is Az Oszse (-) Ado Egy (-) Házi Személly Todays hungarian would say: Az összeadó Egyházi Személly Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Nov 29, 2011
                                          The heading of collumn 6 is

                                          Az
                                          Oszse (-)
                                          Ado Egy (-)
                                          Házi
                                          Személly

                                          Todays hungarian would say:
                                          Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                          Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly

                                          Translation:
                                          Church Person who served as registrar

                                          The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                          same

                                          The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                          could be Mihaly and Janos.

                                          I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.

                                          Ladislav


                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                          > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                          >
                                          > Hi Debbie,
                                          > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                          > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                          > what
                                          > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                          >
                                          > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                          > host
                                          > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                          > for
                                          > the place of residence.
                                          > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                          > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                          > name
                                          > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                          > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                          > just
                                          > above.
                                          > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                          > that I
                                          > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                          > which
                                          > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                          > that'.
                                          > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                          > legal.
                                          > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                          > say
                                          > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                          > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                          >
                                          > Hope that helps.
                                          >
                                          > Can someone else check?
                                          >
                                          > Link:
                                          > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                          > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                          >
                                          > Peter
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > **
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                          > >
                                          > > Debbie
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                          > <deeellessbee@...>
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                          > have
                                          > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                          > or
                                          > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                          > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                          > figure out
                                          > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                          > the
                                          > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                          > towns
                                          > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                          > for
                                          > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                          > column
                                          > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                          > like
                                          > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                          > the
                                          > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                          > > > Debbie
                                          > > >
                                          > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                          > under
                                          > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Debbie
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                          > > omitted.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Sam
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                          > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                          > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Anybody??
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                          > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                          > my
                                          > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                          > his
                                          > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                          > certificate
                                          > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                          > catch my
                                          > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                          > and
                                          > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                          > > assistance.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                          > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                          > and
                                          > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                          > I'm
                                          > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                          > are
                                          > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                          > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                          > correct?
                                          > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Thanks!
                                          > > > > > Debbie
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                                          >
                                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                          > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • deeellessbee
                                          Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn t
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Nov 30, 2011
                                            Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses' given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn't sure if this was usual practice (2 male witnesses).

                                            Can I infer anything by the fact that Gyorgy and Janos were married on the same day? Brothers, perhaps? Or just as likely just coincidence?

                                            Gee, I sure wish the ages and parents were on this record - or on Gyorgy's, for that matter. After finding this record I realized this is about 18 to 20 years before the birth of my g'g'grandmother, and I thought this record was for her parents. Still possible of course, but now it has me less certain.

                                            BTW, for some reason I didn't think we could put links in our posts. From now on I will link to anything I need help with. Thanks for putting that link in for me.

                                            Debbie

                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > The heading of collumn 6 is
                                            >
                                            > Az
                                            > Oszse (-)
                                            > Ado Egy (-)
                                            > Házi
                                            > Személly
                                            >
                                            > Todays hungarian would say:
                                            > Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                            > Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                                            >
                                            > Translation:
                                            > Church Person who served as registrar
                                            >
                                            > The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                            > same
                                            >
                                            > The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                            > could be Mihaly and Janos.
                                            >
                                            > I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.
                                            >
                                            > Ladislav
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                            > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                            > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi Debbie,
                                            > > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                            > > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                            > > what
                                            > > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                            > >
                                            > > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                            > > host
                                            > > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                            > > for
                                            > > the place of residence.
                                            > > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                            > > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                            > > name
                                            > > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                            > > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                            > > just
                                            > > above.
                                            > > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                            > > that I
                                            > > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                            > > which
                                            > > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                            > > that'.
                                            > > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                            > > legal.
                                            > > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                            > > say
                                            > > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                            > > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                            > >
                                            > > Hope that helps.
                                            > >
                                            > > Can someone else check?
                                            > >
                                            > > Link:
                                            > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                            > > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                            > >
                                            > > Peter
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > **
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Debbie
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                            > > <deeellessbee@>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                            > > have
                                            > > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                            > > or
                                            > > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                            > > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                            > > figure out
                                            > > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                            > > the
                                            > > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                            > > towns
                                            > > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                            > > for
                                            > > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                            > > column
                                            > > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                            > > like
                                            > > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                            > > the
                                            > > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                            > > > > Debbie
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                            > > under
                                            > > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Debbie
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                            > > > omitted.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Sam
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                            > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                            > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Anybody??
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                            > > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                            > > my
                                            > > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                            > > his
                                            > > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                            > > certificate
                                            > > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                            > > catch my
                                            > > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                            > > and
                                            > > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                            > > > assistance.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                            > > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                            > > and
                                            > > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                            > > I'm
                                            > > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                            > > are
                                            > > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                            > > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                            > > correct?
                                            > > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Thanks!
                                            > > > > > > Debbie
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                                            > >
                                            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                            > >
                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                            > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                            > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
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