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help with record please

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  • Peg's Gmail
    I haven t taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 3, 2011
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      I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.

      https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

      The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?

      Thanks!

      Peg
    • CurtB
      Peg, Latin won t help in this case. The mysterious word is Hungarian. It means alias It says the parents names are Timko alias Ivanyov Pal [and] Suszter
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 3, 2011
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        Peg,
        Latin won't help in this case. The mysterious word is Hungarian. It means "alias"

        It says the parents names are

        Timko alias
        Ivanyov Pal [and]
        Suszter Maria

        So his name is Timko, but he uses an alias Ivanyov.

        Did Ivanyov become the family name, or did it remain Timko?

        Curt B.

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
        >
        > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
        >
        > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
        >
        > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Peg
        >
      • htcstech
        Hi, Though I m new at this, I ve been working out heaps of RK images in the same year ranges over the last few weeks. The page is written in Hungarian, and
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi,
          Though I'm new at this, I've been working out heaps of RK images in the same
          year ranges over the last few weeks.
          The page is written in Hungarian, and I've managed to translate most of it
          for you, but 'Simko maskes' is not Hungarian or Latin. I have noticed that
          the Fathers did use colloquial or pig Latin or abbreviated Latin. I would
          safely ignore it if you can.

          For your information the following is a transcript of the lettering:

          Column 3 Christener: Kamminszky Janos (John Kamminszky) - Then underneath it
          is written: ujdonszentel aldozar which is Hungarian but means nothing in the
          form it is written, but can be written as Ujdon szent (el) aldoz(at) which
          sort of means ' a victim of the novelty' - in very loose terms, but I think
          it could be a ranking, maybe novitiate.
          'ujdom szentelt �ldozat' means 'novelty dedicated to sacrifice' which is
          more in line with religion.

          It helps to know that fz is sz and the lower case t is very small, looking
          like a sloped + sign.

          Bermalo is untranslatable - may be a GK term - malo means choice in Latin.

          Column 4 Kersetelu (a ,, is equal to a hypen): is Pal (the Christian Name)
          Column 5 Onnek Szulei (Your Parents): Under 'Simko maskes' is: Ivanyouv Bal
          (Bal is short for Balint which is the English name Valentine).
          Then the mother is Suszter Maria
          Column 6: Both GK
          Column 7: Telkes Gazda - means Owns and works land. (this is good by the
          way.) In latin you may have seen Colonus = landowner, Inquilus = owns a
          small parcel of land and house, Subinquilus = No house or land, Libertini -
          Free from duties and taxes and lastly, Mendicus - Beggar.
          There is also Cigany (different versions of spelling) - Gypsy (Romani - from
          India), however there is a village of similar name in Cseh.
          You may also find Soltys - Village founder, but that is very rare.

          Column 7 Kerest Atya es Anya (Godfather and Mother): Valyiszka Janos (John)
          and Lyevkus Georgy (George), Szincsak Anna and Koczsis Anna
          Column 8 Szarmazasi Helyi Keresztelnek (place of origin of the child and
          parents): Zavatka

          Other: A christening naming tradition is: 1st son is named after the father,
          2nd son after the grandfather, 3rd son after the grandfather of the bride
          (wife).
          1st daughter is Maria, 2nd is Anna, third is Helena. Generally others after
          saints.

          Hava means month and you may find liturgical months like St Michael etc
          instead of the Georgian names.
          Notice also that children are baptised rapidly! often the same day they were
          born.

          Hopefully someone else may know what Simko maskes means.

          Regards

          Peter




          On 4 August 2011 14:28, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If
          > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
          >
          >
          > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
          >
          > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above
          > the parent's names and what do they mean?
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Peg
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Peter Martyn
          Trading as
          Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
          ABN: 38677221998
          Phone: 0248898352
          Fax: 0248899651
          Mobile: 0435437070
          Email: htcstech@...


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • htcstech
          CurtB is correct. if it is spelled maskei then it means masked and looking at it again, Simko can be Timko. Also Bal is more likely Pal, as the priest
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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            CurtB is correct. if it is spelled 'maskei' then it means 'masked' and
            looking at it again, Simko can be Timko.
            Also Bal is more likely Pal, as the priest would not shorten Balint to Bal.
            The child was more likely to be named after the father.
            Good catch!

            Peter

            On 4 August 2011 14:58, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Peg,
            > Latin won't help in this case. The mysterious word is Hungarian. It means
            > "alias"
            >
            > It says the parents names are
            >
            > Timko alias
            > Ivanyov Pal [and]
            > Suszter Maria
            >
            > So his name is Timko, but he uses an alias Ivanyov.
            >
            > Did Ivanyov become the family name, or did it remain Timko?
            >
            > Curt B.
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If
            > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
            > >
            > >
            > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
            > >
            > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above
            > the parent's names and what do they mean?
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > >
            > > Peg
            > >
            >
            >
            >



            --
            Peter Martyn
            Trading as
            Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
            ABN: 38677221998
            Phone: 0248898352
            Fax: 0248899651
            Mobile: 0435437070
            Email: htcstech@...


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ladislav Rosival
            Hallo, The word aldozár means priest, the word ujdonszentelt newly consecrated or ordinaired. It seems it was the son of the priest. The word after Simko
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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              Hallo,

              The word "aldozár" means priest, the word "ujdonszentelt" newly consecrated
              or ordinaired. It seems it was the son of the priest.


              The word after Simko is "máskép" (maskep) = in other words

              In the column 3 the word "bérmáló" (bermalo) means the person who is giving
              the sacrament of confirmation (in the RC church is confirmation later in age
              about 14 years or even later, GK baptism and confirmation are given the same
              time).

              In the column 4 the word "bérmált" means the person who is receiving the
              scaramnet of confirmation.

              "Önnek szülei" means in this context his/her parents

              For me is quite interesting that there are 4 Godparents - Iv never seen this
              in a RC book, but it seems common in GK (at least in this book) - perhaps
              two of them for baptism and two for the confirmation.


              Ladislav


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
              > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
              > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:45 AM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
              >
              > Hi,
              > Though I'm new at this, I've been working out heaps of RK images in the
              > same
              > year ranges over the last few weeks.
              > The page is written in Hungarian, and I've managed to translate most of
              > it
              > for you, but 'Simko maskes' is not Hungarian or Latin. I have noticed
              > that
              > the Fathers did use colloquial or pig Latin or abbreviated Latin. I
              > would
              > safely ignore it if you can.
              >
              > For your information the following is a transcript of the lettering:
              >
              > Column 3 Christener: Kamminszky Janos (John Kamminszky) - Then
              > underneath it
              > is written: ujdonszentel aldozar which is Hungarian but means nothing
              > in the
              > form it is written, but can be written as Ujdon szent (el) aldoz(at)
              > which
              > sort of means ' a victim of the novelty' - in very loose terms, but I
              > think
              > it could be a ranking, maybe novitiate.
              > 'ujdom szentelt áldozat' means 'novelty dedicated to sacrifice' which
              > is
              > more in line with religion.
              >
              > It helps to know that fz is sz and the lower case t is very small,
              > looking
              > like a sloped + sign.
              >
              > Bermalo is untranslatable - may be a GK term - malo means choice in
              > Latin.
              >
              > Column 4 Kersetelu (a ,, is equal to a hypen): is Pal (the Christian
              > Name)
              > Column 5 Onnek Szulei (Your Parents): Under 'Simko maskes' is: Ivanyouv
              > Bal
              > (Bal is short for Balint which is the English name Valentine).
              > Then the mother is Suszter Maria
              > Column 6: Both GK
              > Column 7: Telkes Gazda - means Owns and works land. (this is good by
              > the
              > way.) In latin you may have seen Colonus = landowner, Inquilus = owns a
              > small parcel of land and house, Subinquilus = No house or land,
              > Libertini -
              > Free from duties and taxes and lastly, Mendicus - Beggar.
              > There is also Cigany (different versions of spelling) - Gypsy (Romani -
              > from
              > India), however there is a village of similar name in Cseh.
              > You may also find Soltys - Village founder, but that is very rare.
              >
              > Column 7 Kerest Atya es Anya (Godfather and Mother): Valyiszka Janos
              > (John)
              > and Lyevkus Georgy (George), Szincsak Anna and Koczsis Anna
              > Column 8 Szarmazasi Helyi Keresztelnek (place of origin of the child
              > and
              > parents): Zavatka
              >
              > Other: A christening naming tradition is: 1st son is named after the
              > father,
              > 2nd son after the grandfather, 3rd son after the grandfather of the
              > bride
              > (wife).
              > 1st daughter is Maria, 2nd is Anna, third is Helena. Generally others
              > after
              > saints.
              >
              > Hava means month and you may find liturgical months like St Michael etc
              > instead of the Georgian names.
              > Notice also that children are baptised rapidly! often the same day they
              > were
              > born.
              >
              > Hopefully someone else may know what Simko maskes means.
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Peter
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On 4 August 2011 14:28, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a
              > record. If
              > > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of
              > you.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family
              > search.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-
              > 66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
              > >
              > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word
              > above
              > > the parent's names and what do they mean?
              > >
              > > Thanks!
              > >
              > > Peg
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Peter Martyn
              > Trading as
              > Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
              > ABN: 38677221998
              > Phone: 0248898352
              > Fax: 0248899651
              > Mobile: 0435437070
              > Email: htcstech@...
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
              > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • htcstech
              Hello Ladislav! Thanks for the translations! I speak/read a little Hungarian and I couldn t see the wood for the trees! Maskep* = in other words or
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Ladislav!

                Thanks for the translations!

                I speak/read a little Hungarian and I couldn't see the wood for the trees!
                Maskep* = in other words or alternatively! So simple, if I could have read
                the last letter properly.

                The first word in the 3rd column is Keresztelo which means 'the person doing
                the christening or baptizer - the baptist'
                This is followed by 'es' = and
                then the word 'Bermalo'.
                Just using logic, bermalo should mean 'status' of the person doing the
                baptism as this is written after the name in the entry.
                I'm not saying you are wrong, but Keresztelo already takes care of the
                meaning you've given to bermalo.

                Is bermalo/bermalt Magyar? I can not understand this and I have not heard a
                similar word. In Magyar, there are too many words using the root of 'ber'.

                Peter

                *My uncle is bring me a Hungarian keyboard in about a month!

                2011/8/4 Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>

                > Hallo,
                >
                > The word "aldozár" means priest, the word "ujdonszentelt" newly consecrated
                > or ordinaired. It seems it was the son of the priest.
                >
                >
                > The word after Simko is "máskép" (maskep) = in other words
                >
                > In the column 3 the word "bérmáló" (bermalo) means the person who is giving
                > the sacrament of confirmation (in the RC church is confirmation later in
                > age
                > about 14 years or even later, GK baptism and confirmation are given the
                > same
                > time).
                >
                > In the column 4 the word "bérmált" means the person who is receiving the
                > scaramnet of confirmation.
                >
                > "Önnek szülei" means in this context his/her parents
                >
                > For me is quite interesting that there are 4 Godparents - Iv never seen
                > this
                > in a RC book, but it seems common in GK (at least in this book) - perhaps
                > two of them for baptism and two for the confirmation.
                >
                >
                > Ladislav
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:45 AM
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                > >
                > > Hi,
                > > Though I'm new at this, I've been working out heaps of RK images in the
                > > same
                > > year ranges over the last few weeks.
                > > The page is written in Hungarian, and I've managed to translate most of
                > > it
                > > for you, but 'Simko maskes' is not Hungarian or Latin. I have noticed
                > > that
                > > the Fathers did use colloquial or pig Latin or abbreviated Latin. I
                > > would
                > > safely ignore it if you can.
                > >
                > > For your information the following is a transcript of the lettering:
                > >
                > > Column 3 Christener: Kamminszky Janos (John Kamminszky) - Then
                > > underneath it
                > > is written: ujdonszentel aldozar which is Hungarian but means nothing
                > > in the
                > > form it is written, but can be written as Ujdon szent (el) aldoz(at)
                > > which
                > > sort of means ' a victim of the novelty' - in very loose terms, but I
                > > think
                > > it could be a ranking, maybe novitiate.
                > > 'ujdom szentelt áldozat' means 'novelty dedicated to sacrifice' which
                > > is
                > > more in line with religion.
                > >
                > > It helps to know that fz is sz and the lower case t is very small,
                > > looking
                > > like a sloped + sign.
                > >
                > > Bermalo is untranslatable - may be a GK term - malo means choice in
                > > Latin.
                > >
                > > Column 4 Kersetelu (a ,, is equal to a hypen): is Pal (the Christian
                > > Name)
                > > Column 5 Onnek Szulei (Your Parents): Under 'Simko maskes' is: Ivanyouv
                > > Bal
                > > (Bal is short for Balint which is the English name Valentine).
                > > Then the mother is Suszter Maria
                > > Column 6: Both GK
                > > Column 7: Telkes Gazda - means Owns and works land. (this is good by
                > > the
                > > way.) In latin you may have seen Colonus = landowner, Inquilus = owns a
                > > small parcel of land and house, Subinquilus = No house or land,
                > > Libertini -
                > > Free from duties and taxes and lastly, Mendicus - Beggar.
                > > There is also Cigany (different versions of spelling) - Gypsy (Romani -
                > > from
                > > India), however there is a village of similar name in Cseh.
                > > You may also find Soltys - Village founder, but that is very rare.
                > >
                > > Column 7 Kerest Atya es Anya (Godfather and Mother): Valyiszka Janos
                > > (John)
                > > and Lyevkus Georgy (George), Szincsak Anna and Koczsis Anna
                > > Column 8 Szarmazasi Helyi Keresztelnek (place of origin of the child
                > > and
                > > parents): Zavatka
                > >
                > > Other: A christening naming tradition is: 1st son is named after the
                > > father,
                > > 2nd son after the grandfather, 3rd son after the grandfather of the
                > > bride
                > > (wife).
                > > 1st daughter is Maria, 2nd is Anna, third is Helena. Generally others
                > > after
                > > saints.
                > >
                > > Hava means month and you may find liturgical months like St Michael etc
                > > instead of the Georgian names.
                > > Notice also that children are baptised rapidly! often the same day they
                > > were
                > > born.
                > >
                > > Hopefully someone else may know what Simko maskes means.
                > >
                > > Regards
                > >
                > > Peter
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On 4 August 2011 14:28, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a
                > > record. If
                > > > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of
                > > you.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family
                > > search.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-
                > > 66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                > > >
                > > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word
                > > above
                > > > the parent's names and what do they mean?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks!
                > > >
                > > > Peg
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Peter Martyn
                > > Trading as
                > > Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
                > > ABN: 38677221998
                > > Phone: 0248898352
                > > Fax: 0248899651
                > > Mobile: 0435437070
                > > Email: htcstech@...
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                > >
                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ladislav Rosival
                Hello Peter, Bérmálo/bérmált are of course hungarian, they are derived from bérmálás = confirmation. The same way keresztelõ/keresztelt are derived
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Peter,



                  B�rm�lo/b�rm�lt are of course hungarian, they are derived from b�rm�l�s =
                  confirmation.



                  The same way keresztel�/keresztelt are derived from kereszts�g = baptism (or
                  christening)





                  So in this case Keresztel�/B�rm�l� is the person doing this sacrament -
                  mostly the priest



                  Keresztelt/B�rm�lt is the person receiving the sacrametn - child





                  You can see it on the wikipedia:



                  This link http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%ef%bf%bdrm%ef%bf%bdl%ef%bf%bds has a interwiki to
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation





                  From the english wikipedia:



                  Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox Churches, and many
                  Anglicans view Confirmation as a sacrament. In the East it is conferred on
                  infants immediately after baptism, but in the West it is usually
                  administered later at the age of reason or in early adolescence.





                  In our case Greek-catholic is in the cathegory "East" and RC is in the
                  category "West".



                  Ladislav







                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of htcstech
                  Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 1:41 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please





                  Hello Ladislav!

                  Thanks for the translations!

                  I speak/read a little Hungarian and I couldn't see the wood for the trees!
                  Maskep* = in other words or alternatively! So simple, if I could have read
                  the last letter properly.

                  The first word in the 3rd column is Keresztelo which means 'the person doing
                  the christening or baptizer - the baptist'
                  This is followed by 'es' = and
                  then the word 'Bermalo'.
                  Just using logic, bermalo should mean 'status' of the person doing the
                  baptism as this is written after the name in the entry.
                  I'm not saying you are wrong, but Keresztelo already takes care of the
                  meaning you've given to bermalo.

                  Is bermalo/bermalt Magyar? I can not understand this and I have not heard a
                  similar word. In Magyar, there are too many words using the root of 'ber'.

                  Peter

                  *My uncle is bring me a Hungarian keyboard in about a month!

                  2011/8/4 Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@... <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com> >

                  > Hallo,
                  >
                  > The word "aldoz�r" means priest, the word "ujdonszentelt" newly
                  consecrated
                  > or ordinaired. It seems it was the son of the priest.
                  >
                  >
                  > The word after Simko is "m�sk�p" (maskep) = in other words
                  >
                  > In the column 3 the word "b�rm�l�" (bermalo) means the person who is
                  giving
                  > the sacrament of confirmation (in the RC church is confirmation later in
                  > age
                  > about 14 years or even later, GK baptism and confirmation are given the
                  > same
                  > time).
                  >
                  > In the column 4 the word "b�rm�lt" means the person who is receiving the
                  > scaramnet of confirmation.
                  >
                  > "�nnek sz�lei" means in this context his/her parents
                  >
                  > For me is quite interesting that there are 4 Godparents - Iv never seen
                  > this
                  > in a RC book, but it seems common in GK (at least in this book) - perhaps
                  > two of them for baptism and two for the confirmation.
                  >
                  >
                  > Ladislav
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-
                  > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                  htcstech
                  > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:45 AM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>

                  > > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > Though I'm new at this, I've been working out heaps of RK images in the
                  > > same
                  > > year ranges over the last few weeks.
                  > > The page is written in Hungarian, and I've managed to translate most of
                  > > it
                  > > for you, but 'Simko maskes' is not Hungarian or Latin. I have noticed
                  > > that
                  > > the Fathers did use colloquial or pig Latin or abbreviated Latin. I
                  > > would
                  > > safely ignore it if you can.
                  > >
                  > > For your information the following is a transcript of the lettering:
                  > >
                  > > Column 3 Christener: Kamminszky Janos (John Kamminszky) - Then
                  > > underneath it
                  > > is written: ujdonszentel aldozar which is Hungarian but means nothing
                  > > in the
                  > > form it is written, but can be written as Ujdon szent (el) aldoz(at)
                  > > which
                  > > sort of means ' a victim of the novelty' - in very loose terms, but I
                  > > think
                  > > it could be a ranking, maybe novitiate.
                  > > 'ujdom szentelt �ldozat' means 'novelty dedicated to sacrifice' which
                  > > is
                  > > more in line with religion.
                  > >
                  > > It helps to know that fz is sz and the lower case t is very small,
                  > > looking
                  > > like a sloped + sign.
                  > >
                  > > Bermalo is untranslatable - may be a GK term - malo means choice in
                  > > Latin.
                  > >
                  > > Column 4 Kersetelu (a ,, is equal to a hypen): is Pal (the Christian
                  > > Name)
                  > > Column 5 Onnek Szulei (Your Parents): Under 'Simko maskes' is: Ivanyouv
                  > > Bal
                  > > (Bal is short for Balint which is the English name Valentine).
                  > > Then the mother is Suszter Maria
                  > > Column 6: Both GK
                  > > Column 7: Telkes Gazda - means Owns and works land. (this is good by
                  > > the
                  > > way.) In latin you may have seen Colonus = landowner, Inquilus = owns a
                  > > small parcel of land and house, Subinquilus = No house or land,
                  > > Libertini -
                  > > Free from duties and taxes and lastly, Mendicus - Beggar.
                  > > There is also Cigany (different versions of spelling) - Gypsy (Romani -
                  > > from
                  > > India), however there is a village of similar name in Cseh.
                  > > You may also find Soltys - Village founder, but that is very rare.
                  > >
                  > > Column 7 Kerest Atya es Anya (Godfather and Mother): Valyiszka Janos
                  > > (John)
                  > > and Lyevkus Georgy (George), Szincsak Anna and Koczsis Anna
                  > > Column 8 Szarmazasi Helyi Keresztelnek (place of origin of the child
                  > > and
                  > > parents): Zavatka
                  > >
                  > > Other: A christening naming tradition is: 1st son is named after the
                  > > father,
                  > > 2nd son after the grandfather, 3rd son after the grandfather of the
                  > > bride
                  > > (wife).
                  > > 1st daughter is Maria, 2nd is Anna, third is Helena. Generally others
                  > > after
                  > > saints.
                  > >
                  > > Hava means month and you may find liturgical months like St Michael etc
                  > > instead of the Georgian names.
                  > > Notice also that children are baptised rapidly! often the same day they
                  > > were
                  > > born.
                  > >
                  > > Hopefully someone else may know what Simko maskes means.
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > >
                  > > Peter
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On 4 August 2011 14:28, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...
                  <mailto:pegivanyo%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a
                  > > record. If
                  > > > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of
                  > > you.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.family
                  > > search.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-
                  > > 66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                  > > >
                  > > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word
                  > > above
                  > > > the parent's names and what do they mean?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks!
                  > > >
                  > > > Peg
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Peter Martyn
                  > > Trading as
                  > > Hill Top Computing Services (HTCS)
                  > > ABN: 38677221998
                  > > Phone: 0248898352
                  > > Fax: 0248899651
                  > > Mobile: 0435437070
                  > > Email: htcstech@... <mailto:htcstech%40gmail.com>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  > >
                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                  > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                  <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                  <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • MagTon Media
                  You will not need Latin class for this one . It appears that it s in Hungarian . I have two ideas on this record : PAL , the infant , may have the surname of
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                    You will not need Latin class for this one . It appears that it's in Hungarian .

                    I have two ideas on this record : PAL , the infant , may have the surname of SIMKO ......but may be adopted ( ?? ) by Pal Ivanyov & Maria Szuszer. OR PAL IVANYOV was born to PAL SIMKO alias IVANYOV which is the likely answer because the word MASKENT means " alias " or it's another name someone is called in this village .

                    So in this village , the father is likely called Paul Simko Ivanyov . His occupation is Landowner , farmer of small landplot .

                    Does anyone else have ideas on that use of " MASKENT " for alias ?

                    Magda

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                    >
                    > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                    >
                    > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    >
                    > Peg
                    >
                  • Peg's Gmail
                    Well, there is a new one for me. I m wasn t sure the Ivanyov s linked into the line I m working on. And the fact that used to be Timko should solidfy that
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                      Well, there is a new one for me. I'm wasn't sure the Ivanyov's linked into the line I'm working on. And the fact that used to be Timko should solidfy that they don't.

                      Ivanyov is a spelling of a surname that started showing up on these records in the past twenty year period; I hadn't seen it in this village before. I thought it a bit odd. Perhaps they were required to use Ivanyov since Ivanyo was already in existence in the village in order to maintain some kind of clarity? Any other ideas?

                      Thanks! I'd been going back and forth from Hungarian word lists to Latin word lists and apparently missed this one.

                      Peg


                      On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:58 PM, CurtB wrote:

                      > Peg,
                      > Latin won't help in this case. The mysterious word is Hungarian. It means "alias"
                      >
                      > It says the parents names are
                      >
                      > Timko alias
                      > Ivanyov Pal [and]
                      > Suszter Maria
                      >
                      > So his name is Timko, but he uses an alias Ivanyov.
                      >
                      > Did Ivanyov become the family name, or did it remain Timko?
                      >
                      > Curt B.
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                      > >
                      > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                      > >
                      > > The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks!
                      > >
                      > > Peg
                      > >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Peg's Gmail
                      Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may: The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                        Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:

                        The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.

                        I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                        https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

                        Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.

                        Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.

                        Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?

                        Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.

                        Peg
                      • CurtB
                        Peg, It really is Maria. This writer forms his r s a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final a
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                          Peg,

                          It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".

                          I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.

                          Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.

                          Curt B.

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
                          >
                          > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                          >
                          > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                          > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                          >
                          > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
                          >
                          > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
                          >
                          > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
                          >
                          > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                          >
                          > Peg
                          >
                        • Peg's Gmail
                          Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn t extract them as they didn t relate to the Ivanyo family I m working on, but one had an f (or s) in the
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                            Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.

                            Peg


                            On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:

                            > Peg,
                            >
                            > It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
                            >
                            > I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
                            >
                            > Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
                            >
                            > Curt B.
                            >
                            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
                            > >
                            > > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                            > >
                            > > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                            > > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                            > >
                            > > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
                            > >
                            > > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
                            > >
                            > > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                            > >
                            > > Peg
                            > >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Elaine
                            Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                              Peg, I have seen this combination of letters in records I reviewed, and from seeing the name written by other scribes at other times, I was able to see for sure it was a double "s."

                              Elaine

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Aug 4, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

                              > Thanks. Not sure where the others I saw are; I didn't extract them as they didn't relate to the Ivanyo family I'm working on, but one had an f (or s) in the middle and the other a fs. They were much easier to read than the one on this page. I'm pretty sure it should be Lessov. At least with my little piece of inexperience, that is what I am thinking. If you look really really close at this one, you can see the descender of the f (s) coming down into the I of Ivanyo.
                              >
                              > Peg
                              >
                              >
                              > On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:09 AM, CurtB wrote:
                              >
                              >> Peg,
                              >>
                              >> It really is Maria. This writer forms his r's a bit differently, and he uses a below the line flourish at the end of names. This makes the final "a" look different to you, but it is just a flourish, not an "s".
                              >>
                              >> I read the other family name as Lebov, but the ink is faint so I would have to see the other examples.
                              >>
                              >> Yes, Col. is the Latin: Colonus. He has ownership rights to his property.
                              >>
                              >> Curt B.
                              >>
                              >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>> Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few more related questions if I may:
                              >>>
                              >>> The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                              >>>
                              >>> I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94, entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria? That record may be found at:
                              >>> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                              >>>
                              >>> Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place. It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't the case.
                              >>>
                              >>> Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov? I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and also with what may be a double s.
                              >>>
                              >>> Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned and farmed land?
                              >>>
                              >>> Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                              >>>
                              >>> Peg
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • htcstech
                              Regarding Social Status for Latin records: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm That cleared up a few questions for me. Peter ... [Non-text
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 4, 2011
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                                Regarding Social Status for Latin records:

                                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/social_status.htm

                                That cleared up a few questions for me.

                                Peter

                                On 5 August 2011 02:25, Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks to all of you for your assistance on the Hungarian record. A few
                                > more related questions if I may:
                                >
                                > The record we just read was for Pal, of Timko, alias Ivanyov Pal and
                                > Suszter Maria on image 23 of 94.
                                >
                                > I believe an earlier entry relates to those same parents on image 18 of 94,
                                > entry on right side for something June, a Joanes, of Ivanyov Pal and was
                                > looks like Sustex Maxis. The "Maxis" thing has also just been showing up in
                                > the past few images. I've never seen an x for an r or what looks like an s
                                > for an a, so I was a bit confused. Is this just a specific hand for Maria?
                                > That record may be found at:
                                >
                                > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-58151-30%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                                >
                                > Also I am unable to tell what day in June the birth and baptism took place.
                                > It looks like a 17, but since there is a 12 after it, that probably isn't
                                > the case.
                                >
                                > Then if you go down on that page to 5 August, there is another Max'es. Is
                                > this also Maria? If not, what is it? And the fathers name--is that Lesov?
                                > I've seen this name a couple of times, with what appears to be one s and
                                > also with what may be a double s.
                                >
                                > Last question: Did I understand someone to say that Col. means they owned
                                > and farmed land?
                                >
                                > Thanks again! You are an invaluable teaching crew.
                                >
                                > Peg
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Karen C
                                Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
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                                  Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  

                                  https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List


                                  Hope this is of some assistance.  

                                  Karen





                                  >________________________________
                                  >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
                                  >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
                                  >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
                                  >
                                  >

                                  >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                                  >
                                  >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                                  >
                                  >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?
                                  >
                                  >Thanks!
                                  >
                                  >Peg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • John Venham
                                  Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian. Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.

                                    Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning - mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way" "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.

                                    Hopefully someone else can help more.

                                    John

                                    "The Journey is the Reward"

                                    --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:

                                    From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                                    To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
















                                     









                                    Hello Peg,  We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.  



                                    https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List



                                    Hope this is of some assistance.  



                                    Karen



                                    >________________________________

                                    >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>

                                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                                    >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM

                                    >Subject: [S-R] help with record please

                                    >

                                    >



                                    >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.

                                    >

                                    >https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381

                                    >

                                    >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above the parent's names and what do they mean?

                                    >

                                    >Thanks!

                                    >

                                    >Peg

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • htcstech
                                    Hello John, That s a valuable interpretation - ie that maske(p) - maskep could mean other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 8, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello John,

                                      That's a valuable interpretation - ie that 'maske(p) - maskep could mean
                                      other father instead of an alias, however you would have the word
                                      'torvenytelen' meaning illegal somewhere in that record.

                                      Back to Latin, I also had two interesting entries in death records with the
                                      word 'ignatu' under the name of the deceased children. The 'parent' did not
                                      have the same surname as the dead. I can only presume that this parent was
                                      caretaking these children as their own biological parents died beforehand.

                                      Peter

                                      On 9 August 2011 11:49, John Venham <jevenham@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hope this helps. The entire record is in Hungarian.
                                      >
                                      > Simko -- it looks like a surname. The second word -maske/ - appears
                                      > truncated, as if to be continued, but it is not. Regardless, the beginning -
                                      > mas - means 'other' , with the next -ke- added, it suggests "another way"
                                      > "another time" "otherwise"... because it is unique for this entry, it might
                                      > mean that the father's surname is an alternate as Simko / Ivanyov ; or
                                      > perhaps an illegitimate birth, with the real father named Simko.
                                      >
                                      > Hopefully someone else can help more.
                                      >
                                      > John
                                      >
                                      > "The Journey is the Reward"
                                      >
                                      > --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Karen C <karens_roots@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: Karen C <karens_roots@...>
                                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] help with record please
                                      > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 7:52 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hello Peg, We have many experts on this list that will probably be able to
                                      > help you more and I, but I looked on family search and found the Hungarian
                                      > language translation which included a number of the words in these headings.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hungary_Genealogical_Word_List
                                      >
                                      > Hope this is of some assistance.
                                      >
                                      > Karen
                                      >
                                      > >________________________________
                                      >
                                      > >From: Peg's Gmail <pegivanyo@...>
                                      >
                                      > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > >Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 12:28 AM
                                      >
                                      > >Subject: [S-R] help with record please
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >I haven't taken my Latin class yet and am struggling to read a record. If
                                      > someone has time to take a look, it may be quite obvious to one of you.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/pal%3A/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11022-57785-66%3Fcc%3D1554443%26wc%3D10598381
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >The entry on the 8 of July for a Pal Ivanyov. What are the two word above
                                      > the parent's names and what do they mean?
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >Thanks!
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >Peg
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • deeellessbee
                                      Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g g g grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Nov 21, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.

                                        Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.

                                        It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!

                                        P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.

                                        Thanks!
                                        Debbie
                                      • deeellessbee
                                        Anybody??
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Anybody??

                                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                          >
                                          > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                          >
                                          > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                          >
                                          > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks!
                                          > Debbie
                                          >
                                        • Samuel Ontko
                                          Debbie I agree with the couples names. You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted. Sam From: deeellessbee Sent: Friday, November
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Nov 25, 2011
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                                            Debbie

                                            I agree with the couples names.

                                            You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.

                                            Sam

                                            From: deeellessbee
                                            Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please


                                            Anybody??

                                            --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                            >
                                            > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                            >
                                            > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                            >
                                            > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks!
                                            > Debbie
                                            >





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • deeellessbee
                                            Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn t have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else -
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Nov 26, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?

                                              Thank you for any further help!
                                              Debbie

                                              P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!


                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Debbie
                                              >
                                              > I agree with the couples names.
                                              >
                                              > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                                              >
                                              > Sam
                                              >
                                              > From: deeellessbee
                                              > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Anybody??
                                              >
                                              > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                              > >
                                              > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                              > >
                                              > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                              > >
                                              > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks!
                                              > > Debbie
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • deeellessbee
                                              Any further help please? Thank you! Debbie
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Any further help please? Thank you!

                                                Debbie

                                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                                >
                                                > Thank you for any further help!
                                                > Debbie
                                                >
                                                > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Debbie
                                                > >
                                                > > I agree with the couples names.
                                                > >
                                                > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are omitted.
                                                > >
                                                > > Sam
                                                > >
                                                > > From: deeellessbee
                                                > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Anybody??
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for assistance.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic, Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                                > > >
                                                > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct? The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Thanks!
                                                > > > Debbie
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • htcstech
                                                Hi Debbie, I ve picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what I ve
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi Debbie,
                                                  I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                                  Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                                                  I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                                                  The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                                                  - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                                                  the place of residence.
                                                  The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                                  The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                                                  and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                                  (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                                                  above.
                                                  The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                                                  presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                                                  would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                                                  The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                                                  The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                                                  that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                                  George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                                                  Hope that helps.

                                                  Can someone else check?

                                                  Link:
                                                  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                                                  Peter


                                                  On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                                                  > **
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                                  >
                                                  > Debbie
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                                                  > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                                                  > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                                  > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                                                  > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                                                  > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                                                  > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                                                  > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                                                  > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                                                  > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                                                  > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thank you for any further help!
                                                  > > Debbie
                                                  > >
                                                  > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                                                  > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Debbie
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                                  > omitted.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Sam
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > From: deeellessbee
                                                  > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                  > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Anybody??
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                  > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                                                  > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                                                  > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                                                  > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                                                  > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                                                  > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                                  > assistance.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                                  > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                                                  > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                                                  > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                                                  > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                                  > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                                                  > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Thanks!
                                                  > > > > Debbie
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • lacoros@gmail.com
                                                  ... From: htcstech Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10 To: Reply-To:
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Nov 28, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
                                                    Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:51:10
                                                    To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please

                                                    Hi Debbie,
                                                    I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                                    Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct what
                                                    I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.

                                                    The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility) host
                                                    - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands for
                                                    the place of residence.
                                                    The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                                    The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian name
                                                    and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                                    (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius just
                                                    above.
                                                    The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly' that I
                                                    presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal - which
                                                    would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for that'.
                                                    The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was legal.
                                                    The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would say
                                                    that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                                    George and Janos Guman married on the same day.

                                                    Hope that helps.

                                                    Can someone else check?

                                                    Link:
                                                    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593

                                                    Peter


                                                    On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

                                                    > **
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                                    >
                                                    > Debbie
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee" <deeellessbee@...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't have
                                                    > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you - or
                                                    > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                                    > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't figure out
                                                    > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly, the
                                                    > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the towns
                                                    > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation for
                                                    > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the column
                                                    > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look like
                                                    > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after the
                                                    > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thank you for any further help!
                                                    > > Debbie
                                                    > >
                                                    > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were under
                                                    > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Debbie
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                                    > omitted.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Sam
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > From: deeellessbee
                                                    > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                    > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Anybody??
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                    > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of my
                                                    > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have his
                                                    > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the certificate
                                                    > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to catch my
                                                    > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear and
                                                    > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                                    > assistance.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                                    > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation and
                                                    > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman - I'm
                                                    > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women are
                                                    > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                                    > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents, correct?
                                                    > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Thanks!
                                                    > > > > Debbie
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    ------------------------------------

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                                                  • Ladislav Rosival
                                                    The heading of collumn 6 is Az Oszse (-) Ado Egy (-) Házi Személly Todays hungarian would say: Az összeadó Egyházi Személly Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Nov 29, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      The heading of collumn 6 is

                                                      Az
                                                      Oszse (-)
                                                      Ado Egy (-)
                                                      Házi
                                                      Személly

                                                      Todays hungarian would say:
                                                      Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                                      Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly

                                                      Translation:
                                                      Church Person who served as registrar

                                                      The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                                      same

                                                      The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                                      could be Mihaly and Janos.

                                                      I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.

                                                      Ladislav


                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                                      > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Debbie,
                                                      > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                                      > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                                      > what
                                                      > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                                      >
                                                      > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                                      > host
                                                      > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                                      > for
                                                      > the place of residence.
                                                      > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                                      > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                                      > name
                                                      > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                                      > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                                      > just
                                                      > above.
                                                      > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                                      > that I
                                                      > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                                      > which
                                                      > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                                      > that'.
                                                      > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                                      > legal.
                                                      > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                                      > say
                                                      > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                                      > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                                      >
                                                      > Hope that helps.
                                                      >
                                                      > Can someone else check?
                                                      >
                                                      > Link:
                                                      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                                      > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                                      >
                                                      > Peter
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > **
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Debbie
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                      > <deeellessbee@...>
                                                      > > wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                                      > have
                                                      > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                                      > or
                                                      > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                                      > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                                      > figure out
                                                      > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                                      > the
                                                      > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                                      > towns
                                                      > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                                      > for
                                                      > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                                      > column
                                                      > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                                      > like
                                                      > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                                      > the
                                                      > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                                      > > > Debbie
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                                      > under
                                                      > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                                      > wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Debbie
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                                      > > omitted.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Sam
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                                      > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Anybody??
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                      > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                                      > my
                                                      > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                                      > his
                                                      > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                                      > certificate
                                                      > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                                      > catch my
                                                      > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                                      > and
                                                      > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                                      > > assistance.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                                      > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                                      > and
                                                      > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                                      > I'm
                                                      > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                                      > are
                                                      > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                                      > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                                      > correct?
                                                      > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Thanks!
                                                      > > > > > Debbie
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                                                      >
                                                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                                      >
                                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                                      > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • deeellessbee
                                                      Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn t
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Nov 30, 2011
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Thank you Peter and Ladislav! I appreciate the help with deciphering that entry. I too thought the witnesses' given names were Mihaly and Janos, but wasn't sure if this was usual practice (2 male witnesses).

                                                        Can I infer anything by the fact that Gyorgy and Janos were married on the same day? Brothers, perhaps? Or just as likely just coincidence?

                                                        Gee, I sure wish the ages and parents were on this record - or on Gyorgy's, for that matter. After finding this record I realized this is about 18 to 20 years before the birth of my g'g'grandmother, and I thought this record was for her parents. Still possible of course, but now it has me less certain.

                                                        BTW, for some reason I didn't think we could put links in our posts. From now on I will link to anything I need help with. Thanks for putting that link in for me.

                                                        Debbie

                                                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > The heading of collumn 6 is
                                                        >
                                                        > Az
                                                        > Oszse (-)
                                                        > Ado Egy (-)
                                                        > Házi
                                                        > Személly
                                                        >
                                                        > Todays hungarian would say:
                                                        > Az összeadó Egyházi Személly
                                                        > Az osszeado Egyhazi Szemelly
                                                        >
                                                        > Translation:
                                                        > Church Person who served as registrar
                                                        >
                                                        > The "ara" in this collumn would be "aza" - an abrevitation from "azonos"=the
                                                        > same
                                                        >
                                                        > The surnames of the witnesses I am not able to decipher, the given names
                                                        > could be Mihaly and Janos.
                                                        >
                                                        > I am quite sure that the marriage was held on November 10th.
                                                        >
                                                        > Ladislav
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                                        > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:51 AM
                                                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hi Debbie,
                                                        > > I've picked out a few words and some educated guesses. I can read
                                                        > > Hungarian, but there are better people in this group who can correct
                                                        > > what
                                                        > > I've interpreted. Also I have no experience with GK or EK entries.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > The 4th Column 'Nemtelen gazda' means an ignoble (not of the nobility)
                                                        > > host
                                                        > > - independent, not a servant. I would say the abbreviation below stands
                                                        > > for
                                                        > > the place of residence.
                                                        > > The 5th Column is blank - no age recorded.
                                                        > > The 6th column appears to be 'Tanuk (witness), Surname and Christian
                                                        > > name
                                                        > > and place of residence.' Haralszor Mihaly and a name I can't work out.
                                                        > > (Belets Andras and Kanya Janos were the witnesses of Guman Georgius
                                                        > > just
                                                        > > above.
                                                        > > The heading of the next column is 'A osszes ado egyhazi szemelly'
                                                        > > that I
                                                        > > presume means 'The community church (leader)' who is Lijesay Antal -
                                                        > > which
                                                        > > would be the officiating priest. 'ara' as shown would mean - 'for
                                                        > > that'.
                                                        > > The next columns are about legality and exceptions. The marriage was
                                                        > > legal.
                                                        > > The marriage took place in November, between the 10th and 20th. I would
                                                        > > say
                                                        > > that there were 3 marriages on the 10th.
                                                        > > George and Janos Guman married on the same day.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hope that helps.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Can someone else check?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Link:
                                                        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12884-95565-
                                                        > > 35?cc=1554443&wc=12755593
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Peter
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > On 29 November 2011 14:23, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > > **
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Any further help please? Thank you!
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Debbie
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                        > > <deeellessbee@>
                                                        > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Thank you Sam. I appreciate the help. Too bad this record didn't
                                                        > > have
                                                        > > > ages or names of parents - that would have been a huge help. If you -
                                                        > > or
                                                        > > > anyone else - can help a little further, I would appreciate it. For
                                                        > > > instance, what is the date? It looks like November, but I can't
                                                        > > figure out
                                                        > > > the number and wonder if it's some kind of abbreviation. Secondly,
                                                        > > the
                                                        > > > column after the names - what does that say? I'm thinking it's the
                                                        > > towns
                                                        > > > the couple comes from - the bottom line looks like an abbreviation
                                                        > > for
                                                        > > > Miklosvagas, but I can't make out the top two lines/words. And the
                                                        > > column
                                                        > > > with the names of the witnesses - would it be two men? The names look
                                                        > > like
                                                        > > > Mihaly Harelfr---?? and Janos Adzima. And lastly, the column after
                                                        > > the
                                                        > > > witnesses with "ara" in it - what does that mean?
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Thank you for any further help!
                                                        > > > > Debbie
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > P.S. I forgot to mention in my orginal post that the records were
                                                        > > under
                                                        > > > baptisms, marriages, and deaths 1785 - 1856. Thanks!
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Samuel Ontko" <smontko@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Debbie
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > I agree with the couples names.
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > You are correct. No parents names and in this case the ages are
                                                        > > > omitted.
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Sam
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > From: deeellessbee
                                                        > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                        > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: help with record please
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Anybody??
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "deeellessbee"
                                                        > > > <deeellessbee@> wrote:
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Hi all. I think I may have stumbled upon the marriage record of
                                                        > > my
                                                        > > > g'g'g'grandparents. From the death certificate of their son, I have
                                                        > > his
                                                        > > > name as John Guman, and her name looks to be Martha Semon (the
                                                        > > certificate
                                                        > > > is not entirely clear). This on-line marriage record happened to
                                                        > > catch my
                                                        > > > eye, but I have enough trouble with these records when they are clear
                                                        > > and
                                                        > > > the writing is good. This one is difficult for me so I am asking for
                                                        > > > assistance.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books 1592-1910, Greek Catholic,
                                                        > > > Presov, Miklusovce, image 270, line 6.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > It looks like Janos Guman and Martha Szeman. Any confirmation
                                                        > > and
                                                        > > > any further interpretation would be most welcome! Thank you!
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > P.S. I see the entry below this one is for a Barbara Szeman -
                                                        > > I'm
                                                        > > > not seeing any kind of parents' names that may show these two women
                                                        > > are
                                                        > > > related, but again, if anyone sees something, I'd appreciate it. I'm
                                                        > > > thinking the second column with names are witnesses, not parents,
                                                        > > correct?
                                                        > > > The two women are both from Miklosvagas, I believe.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Thanks!
                                                        > > > > > > Debbie
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > >
                                                        > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                                        > >
                                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                        > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                                                        > > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
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