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Re: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

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  • david1law@aol.com
    Dear All: I definitely agree with Bill about being careful of duplicate names. I found it happening a lot in my genealogical research as well, and the same
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 26, 2011
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      Dear All:

      I definitely agree with Bill about being careful of duplicate names. I
      found it happening a lot in my genealogical research as well, and the same
      name (but the wrong person) can lead one on a wild goose chase. I've seen
      instances where two males with the exact same name (MATHIAS BALOGA) also had
      wives with the same first name (ANNA) and both men were born in the same
      year (1804). It was very confusing until I did a cluster genealogy and was
      able to eliminate one from being my great, great, great grandparents because
      the other's wife's baptism (and birth) made it impossible for them to have
      been the parents of my great, great grandfather.

      Names were often handed down to honor the parents, grandparents, etc., and
      I have also seen it where my great grandfather, great great grandfather and
      great great great grandfather all bore the exact same name -- JAN HRONEC).
      It was confusing until I searched through all of the records relating to
      all HRONEC's in the church records.

      One technique that has helped me is the cluster genealogy search when
      examining the church records. After I have done a preliminary search where I
      have found records to my family, I go over the records again for all entries
      regarding the surname as well as any and all potential variants in
      spelling, and I keep track of every entry, and then after I am finished with the
      searching, (1) I compile the list of all the entries and then (2) I
      subsequently organized them into known connections (all children from the same
      parents, etc.). In doing the cluster genealogy approach, I am more certain of
      the results that I have achieved and I have a greater detail as to all of
      the family members. I highly recommend it if you have the time. It reduces
      the chances for errors that come when one hop-scotches around the church
      records looking for a particular person too.


      Best regards,

      David


      In a message dated 7/26/2011 3:32:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      bill.tarkulich@... writes:

      Be careful of duplicate names. It happened a LOT in my villages.


      Bill


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of JamieLynn
      Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:18 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

      Dennis,

      I am almost positive that I have the right naturalization index, but I
      could
      always be wrong. The birth date on the index is the same as his WWl draft
      card, and 1900 Census. Also one of the witness named on it was his
      brother-in-law and the "address" listed was the town that he was married in
      and worked in.

      Thanks, hopefully I can find a church in that area with will have some
      records form the churches that where in the early 1900's.

      Jamie

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Jamie,
      >
      > You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
      > if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
      > the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
      > records.
      >
      > Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
      > free of charge..
      >
      > How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
      > you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
      > researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
      > picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?
      >
      > Dennis
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
      > >
      > > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I
      > don't really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it
      > doesn't seem like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that
      > arrived on the same date, but just with a quick search on
      > ellisisland.org I didn't come up with anything. There were 800+
      > passengers listed so I haven't been able to go through each one.
      > >
      > > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that
      > area? I am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
      > >
      > > Jamie
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" ddhalusker@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I
      > did reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
      > though......my bad.
      > > >
      > > > Dennis
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@>
      > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Where did you look for his records?
      > > > > Dennis
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in
      > Hungary. Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that
      > intention.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897,
      > Lisbon Falls, Maine.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
      > > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon
      > Falls, ME, to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly
      > Tarnó, Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on
      > #695 Krsty 1869-1884 -- Man¾elstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia
      > 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen Topolosky born May 20,1876.
      > Could they have been GC rather than RC?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the
      > 1869 Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6.
      > Though 1869 pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could
      > identify their families as at 1869.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Good luck.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@>
      > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
      > great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are
      > Topoloski, Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S.
      > Naturalization Record Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10,
      > 1892 in New York, New York, but I have been unable to find him. The
      > first record I have of him in the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
      > > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
      > > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
      > > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
      > > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
      > > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
      > > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I
      > have I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
      > > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
      > > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record
      > Indexes)
      > > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
      > > > > > > Thank You,
      > > > > > > Jamie
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >




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    • John
      Jamie, they absolute key to moving ahead is to identify the village of birth. As I mentioned in a reply to Dennis H, I have already reviewed the online RC
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 26, 2011
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        Jamie, they absolute key to moving ahead is to identify the village of birth. As I mentioned in a reply to Dennis H, I have already reviewed the online RC church records for Tarno and the GC records in adjacent villages -- and did not find the surnames around the mentioned dates.

        I guess that I was hoping for an easy home run but that was not to be!
      • lkocik@comcast.net
        Jamie  Bill might have equals on this forum, but there is certainly no one better for giving advice.  I have a few things to humbly add as far as
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 26, 2011
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          Jamie

           Bill might have equals on this forum, but there is certainly no one better for giving advice.

           I have a few things to humbly add as far as corroborating  data;...make note of house numbers and godparents/witnesses when they're available.

            When you notice handwriting changes which would indicate a new scribe be aware of personal idiosyncrasies of the new scribe. It's also good to understand basic prefixes on surnames like; a, ka, ova, ovic, ovych,etc....and the extra z or s that will follow the letter c in Magyar records, the point being even with the additional letters it is still your surname.

           And to paraphrase what Bill says; there are no short cuts, but the rewards are worth the effort.

           Good luck in your research...it will grow on you.

          respectfully

          Larry Kocik

           



          ----- Original Message -----




          From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:16:49 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records Topolsky  Karkos

          Hi Jamie,
          I'm on the road, so I may not see any  of these messages for a week or more.
          Mea culpa.

          Here's my take on your research.  No offense intended, but I see the same
          mistakes again and again.

          1) Spelling, translation and transcription errors.  You said you've checked
          sources, but how many variations have you really checked?  If you haven't
          tried at least a hundred variations, you're not looking hard enough.  Most
          people give up quickly if they try to "cherry pick".  Cherry pickers are
          interested for about four weeks or so, then disappear.  Let that not be you.
          Successful searches will take a few years.  Only a very few people get
          "lucky".

          Errors introduced.  Transcription errors (from handwritten to typed) - poor
          handwriting,.  How to work it? Search on partial names.  Search on sounds
          like names, search on looks like names.  Get a list of old cursive
          handwriting - for example an "s" looking like modern day "f".

           2)When this doesn't work, look for a village name by searching on friends,
          married-in-family, neighborhoods, churches.  Don't forget all the errors
          described in (1).  Immigrants often clustered together.  How about census?
          Either national or state?  Take the villages and feed them into Steve
          Morse's tool and see what names pop up for the village.  You may see one of
          your names, written or transcribed very, very badly.  I cannot tell you how
          many times I've seen this solve a piece.

          3. Village names usually had an old Hungary-name and then a modern-day
          village name.  When you have one village, get it mapped to the other name
          and search on that name.

          4. Collect all the info you have found - even if you cannot corroborate it.
          I've sometimes have brainstorms months or years later, pulled out the data
          and voila! a match.   I've even found stillborn children this way, even
          though they never appeared on the church records.

          5. Getting records out of the church is like pulling teeth.  Very rarely
          possible, but a good donation might help

          BTW, always put your surnames or village names in the message subject.  It
          may prompt more people to open your message rather than a generic topic.

          That's all for now.  Read
          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
          Oh, and if I didn't mention it, death certificates are most often useless.

          Good luck.


          Bill

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of JamieLynn
          Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:47 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

          The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I don't
          really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it doesn't seem
          like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that arrived on the same
          date, but just with a quick search on ellisisland.org I didn't come up with
          anything. There were 800+ passengers listed so I haven't been able to go
          through each one.

          Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that area? I
          am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.

          Jamie
          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I did
          reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
          though......my bad.
          >
          > Dennis
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Where did you look for his records?
          > > Dennis
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in Hungary.
          Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that intention.
          > > >
          > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon
          Falls, Maine.
          > > >
          > > > Ellis Island Clue:
          > > > Karkos, Elisabeth         Tarno         17         1880         1897
          > > >
          > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon Falls, ME,
          to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
          > > >
          > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly Tarnó,
          Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on #695 Krsty 1869-1884
          -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen
          Topolosky born May 20,1876. Could they have been GC rather than RC?
          > > >
          > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the 1869
          Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6. Though 1869
          pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could identify their families
          as at 1869.
          > > >
          > > > Good luck.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
          great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are Topoloski,
          Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S. Naturalization Record
          Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10, 1892 in New York, New
          York, but I have been unable to find him. The first record I have of him in
          the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
          > > > > Here is what I know about it.
          > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
          > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
          > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
          > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
          > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I have
          I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
          > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
          > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
          > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
          > > > >
          > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
          > > > > Thank You,
          > > > > Jamie
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >




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