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Re: Help finding immigration records

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  • patskanovo
    Jamie, You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 26 8:58 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Jamie,

      You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
      if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
      the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
      records.

      Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
      free of charge..

      How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
      you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
      researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
      picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?

      Dennis




      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@...> wrote:
      >
      > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I
      don't really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it
      doesn't seem like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that
      arrived on the same date, but just with a quick search on
      ellisisland.org I didn't come up with anything. There were 800+
      passengers listed so I haven't been able to go through each one.
      >
      > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that
      area? I am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
      >
      > Jamie
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" ddhalusker@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I
      did reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
      though......my bad.
      > >
      > > Dennis
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@>
      wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Where did you look for his records?
      > > > Dennis
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in
      Hungary. Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that
      intention.
      > > > >
      > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897,
      Lisbon Falls, Maine.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
      > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
      > > > >
      > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon
      Falls, ME, to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
      > > > >
      > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly
      Tarnó, Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on
      #695 Krsty 1869-1884 -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia
      1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen Topolosky born May 20,1876.
      Could they have been GC rather than RC?
      > > > >
      > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the
      1869 Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6.
      Though 1869 pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could
      identify their families as at 1869.
      > > > >
      > > > > Good luck.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@>
      wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
      great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are
      Topoloski, Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S.
      Naturalization Record Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10,
      1892 in New York, New York, but I have been unable to find him. The
      first record I have of him in the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
      > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
      > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
      > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
      > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
      > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
      > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I
      have I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
      > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
      > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record
      Indexes)
      > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
      > > > > > Thank You,
      > > > > > Jamie
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Bill Tarkulich
      Hi Jamie, I m on the road, so I may not see any of these messages for a week or more. Mea culpa. Here s my take on your research. No offense intended, but I
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 26 11:16 AM
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        Hi Jamie,
        I'm on the road, so I may not see any of these messages for a week or more.
        Mea culpa.

        Here's my take on your research. No offense intended, but I see the same
        mistakes again and again.

        1) Spelling, translation and transcription errors. You said you've checked
        sources, but how many variations have you really checked? If you haven't
        tried at least a hundred variations, you're not looking hard enough. Most
        people give up quickly if they try to "cherry pick". Cherry pickers are
        interested for about four weeks or so, then disappear. Let that not be you.
        Successful searches will take a few years. Only a very few people get
        "lucky".

        Errors introduced. Transcription errors (from handwritten to typed) - poor
        handwriting,. How to work it? Search on partial names. Search on sounds
        like names, search on looks like names. Get a list of old cursive
        handwriting - for example an "s" looking like modern day "f".

        2)When this doesn't work, look for a village name by searching on friends,
        married-in-family, neighborhoods, churches. Don't forget all the errors
        described in (1). Immigrants often clustered together. How about census?
        Either national or state? Take the villages and feed them into Steve
        Morse's tool and see what names pop up for the village. You may see one of
        your names, written or transcribed very, very badly. I cannot tell you how
        many times I've seen this solve a piece.

        3. Village names usually had an old Hungary-name and then a modern-day
        village name. When you have one village, get it mapped to the other name
        and search on that name.

        4. Collect all the info you have found - even if you cannot corroborate it.
        I've sometimes have brainstorms months or years later, pulled out the data
        and voila! a match. I've even found stillborn children this way, even
        though they never appeared on the church records.

        5. Getting records out of the church is like pulling teeth. Very rarely
        possible, but a good donation might help

        BTW, always put your surnames or village names in the message subject. It
        may prompt more people to open your message rather than a generic topic.

        That's all for now. Read
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
        Oh, and if I didn't mention it, death certificates are most often useless.

        Good luck.


        Bill

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of JamieLynn
        Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:47 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

        The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I don't
        really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it doesn't seem
        like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that arrived on the same
        date, but just with a quick search on ellisisland.org I didn't come up with
        anything. There were 800+ passengers listed so I haven't been able to go
        through each one.

        Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that area? I
        am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.

        Jamie
        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I did
        reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
        though......my bad.
        >
        > Dennis
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Where did you look for his records?
        > > Dennis
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in Hungary.
        Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that intention.
        > > >
        > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon
        Falls, Maine.
        > > >
        > > > Ellis Island Clue:
        > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
        > > >
        > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon Falls, ME,
        to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
        > > >
        > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly Tarnó,
        Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on #695 Krsty 1869-1884
        -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen
        Topolosky born May 20,1876. Could they have been GC rather than RC?
        > > >
        > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the 1869
        Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6. Though 1869
        pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could identify their families
        as at 1869.
        > > >
        > > > Good luck.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
        great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are Topoloski,
        Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S. Naturalization Record
        Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10, 1892 in New York, New
        York, but I have been unable to find him. The first record I have of him in
        the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
        > > > > Here is what I know about it.
        > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
        > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
        > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
        > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
        > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I have
        I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
        > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
        > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
        > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
        > > > >
        > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
        > > > > Thank You,
        > > > > Jamie
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >




        ------------------------------------

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      • Bill Tarkulich
        Dennis is right. You need corroborating evidence. I note every piece of data and packrat it away. I put it into my genealogy program, without any familial
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 26 11:21 AM
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          Dennis is right. You need corroborating evidence. I note every piece of
          data and packrat it away. I put it into my genealogy program, without any
          familial links. I've got many "loners" looking for a home. Maybe they
          fit, maybe never.

          I often find out if they fit by working on other branches of trees and
          examining missing information. It's not just the birth dates to match
          (that's a good clue), but a myriad of other connections, including naming
          traditions, marriage, death records in church books. Maybe they were born
          in one village but married in the next and died in another. How do you
          figure this out. Hard work, a lot of thinking and above all patience.

          Searching on surnames is like throwing a ball into a based at the carnival.
          Maybe you'll win, but more often than not, you'll fail.

          Good luck.


          Bill


          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of patskanovo
          Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:59 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records


          Jamie,

          You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
          if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
          the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
          records.

          Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
          free of charge..

          How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
          you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
          researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
          picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?

          Dennis
        • JamieLynn
          Dennis, I am almost positive that I have the right naturalization index, but I could always be wrong. The birth date on the index is the same as his WWl draft
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 26 12:17 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Dennis,

            I am almost positive that I have the right naturalization index, but I could always be wrong. The birth date on the index is the same as his WWl draft card, and 1900 Census. Also one of the witness named on it was his brother-in-law and the "address" listed was the town that he was married in and worked in.

            Thanks, hopefully I can find a church in that area with will have some records form the churches that where in the early 1900's.

            Jamie

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Jamie,
            >
            > You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
            > if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
            > the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
            > records.
            >
            > Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
            > free of charge..
            >
            > How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
            > you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
            > researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
            > picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?
            >
            > Dennis
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I
            > don't really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it
            > doesn't seem like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that
            > arrived on the same date, but just with a quick search on
            > ellisisland.org I didn't come up with anything. There were 800+
            > passengers listed so I haven't been able to go through each one.
            > >
            > > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that
            > area? I am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
            > >
            > > Jamie
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" ddhalusker@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I
            > did reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
            > though......my bad.
            > > >
            > > > Dennis
            > > >
            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@>
            > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Where did you look for his records?
            > > > > Dennis
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in
            > Hungary. Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that
            > intention.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897,
            > Lisbon Falls, Maine.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
            > > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon
            > Falls, ME, to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly
            > Tarnó, Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on
            > #695 Krsty 1869-1884 -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia
            > 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen Topolosky born May 20,1876.
            > Could they have been GC rather than RC?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the
            > 1869 Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6.
            > Though 1869 pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could
            > identify their families as at 1869.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Good luck.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@>
            > wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
            > great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are
            > Topoloski, Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S.
            > Naturalization Record Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10,
            > 1892 in New York, New York, but I have been unable to find him. The
            > first record I have of him in the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
            > > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
            > > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
            > > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
            > > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
            > > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
            > > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I
            > have I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
            > > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
            > > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record
            > Indexes)
            > > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
            > > > > > > Thank You,
            > > > > > > Jamie
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • JamieLynn
            Thanks John I will take a look at the sites. Jamie
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 26 12:19 PM
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              Thanks John I will take a look at the sites.

              Jamie

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
              >
              > >>> The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. . . . Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that area? <<<
              >
              > BASIC RESEARCH HELP
              > For basic research help, be sure to visit Bill Tarkulich's excellent site at http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/
              >
              > FamilySearch Wiki has a Slovakia Portal page where you can learn how to find, use, and analyze Slovak records of genealogical value. https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Portal:Slovakia
              >
              > CHURCH RECORDS AT LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMON) LDS FAMILY HISTORY CENTER (FHC)
              > The Mormons have been microfilming historic vital records worldwide for decades as part of their mission. The Mormons make their collection available to anyone for viewing at their Family History Centers (FHC). The microfilms are stored in Salt Lake City. When you visit a center, you can "rent" a microfilm, by paying a small fee (abt. $5 per film). The center will order the film on your behalf and notify you when it arrives at their center. You can then use reserve the microfilm readers to view these records. Some church records for Slovakia are now available for online research.
              >
              > There's one more thing to keep in mind about the FHC. For the most part, the FHC volunteers will know NOTHING about research in Slovakia or about the contents of the films. The volunteer may know about his/her own heritage, but that is about it. That's where you need groups like this to point you in the right direction.
              >
              > When searching for genealogical information, knowing the birth village is paramount because records are organized by village not nationally, so it is not possible to search on a national basis. It is also necessary to know the religion. To locate church records for Slovakia, knowing the village/town name, go to the LDS web site: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp The church records cover baptisms (krsteni), marriages (sobeseni) and deaths (zomreli).
              >
            • JamieLynn
              Bill, No offense taken. I will be the first to admit that I haven t been doing this long or that I am not completely sure on what I am doing. I will take any
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 26 12:31 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Bill,

                No offense taken. I will be the first to admit that I haven't been doing this long or that I am not completely sure on what I am doing. I will take any tips or hints to help me out.

                Thanks for the help,
                Jamie
                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Jamie,
                > I'm on the road, so I may not see any of these messages for a week or more.
                > Mea culpa.
                >
                > Here's my take on your research. No offense intended, but I see the same
                > mistakes again and again.
                >
                > 1) Spelling, translation and transcription errors. You said you've checked
                > sources, but how many variations have you really checked? If you haven't
                > tried at least a hundred variations, you're not looking hard enough. Most
                > people give up quickly if they try to "cherry pick". Cherry pickers are
                > interested for about four weeks or so, then disappear. Let that not be you.
                > Successful searches will take a few years. Only a very few people get
                > "lucky".
                >
                > Errors introduced. Transcription errors (from handwritten to typed) - poor
                > handwriting,. How to work it? Search on partial names. Search on sounds
                > like names, search on looks like names. Get a list of old cursive
                > handwriting - for example an "s" looking like modern day "f".
                >
                > 2)When this doesn't work, look for a village name by searching on friends,
                > married-in-family, neighborhoods, churches. Don't forget all the errors
                > described in (1). Immigrants often clustered together. How about census?
                > Either national or state? Take the villages and feed them into Steve
                > Morse's tool and see what names pop up for the village. You may see one of
                > your names, written or transcribed very, very badly. I cannot tell you how
                > many times I've seen this solve a piece.
                >
                > 3. Village names usually had an old Hungary-name and then a modern-day
                > village name. When you have one village, get it mapped to the other name
                > and search on that name.
                >
                > 4. Collect all the info you have found - even if you cannot corroborate it.
                > I've sometimes have brainstorms months or years later, pulled out the data
                > and voila! a match. I've even found stillborn children this way, even
                > though they never appeared on the church records.
                >
                > 5. Getting records out of the church is like pulling teeth. Very rarely
                > possible, but a good donation might help
                >
                > BTW, always put your surnames or village names in the message subject. It
                > may prompt more people to open your message rather than a generic topic.
                >
                > That's all for now. Read
                > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
                > Oh, and if I didn't mention it, death certificates are most often useless.
                >
                > Good luck.
                >
                >
                > Bill
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of JamieLynn
                > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:47 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records
                >
                > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I don't
                > really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it doesn't seem
                > like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that arrived on the same
                > date, but just with a quick search on ellisisland.org I didn't come up with
                > anything. There were 800+ passengers listed so I haven't been able to go
                > through each one.
                >
                > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that area? I
                > am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
                >
                > Jamie
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I did
                > reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
                > though......my bad.
                > >
                > > Dennis
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Where did you look for his records?
                > > > Dennis
                > > >
                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in Hungary.
                > Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that intention.
                > > > >
                > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon
                > Falls, Maine.
                > > > >
                > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
                > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
                > > > >
                > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon Falls, ME,
                > to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
                > > > >
                > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly Tarnó,
                > Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on #695 Krsty 1869-1884
                > -- Man¾elstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen
                > Topolosky born May 20,1876. Could they have been GC rather than RC?
                > > > >
                > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the 1869
                > Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6. Though 1869
                > pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could identify their families
                > as at 1869.
                > > > >
                > > > > Good luck.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
                > great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are Topoloski,
                > Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S. Naturalization Record
                > Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10, 1892 in New York, New
                > York, but I have been unable to find him. The first record I have of him in
                > the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
                > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
                > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
                > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
                > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
                > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
                > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I have
                > I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
                > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
                > > > > > Thank You,
                > > > > > Jamie
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                >
              • Bill Tarkulich
                Be careful of duplicate names. It happened a LOT in my villages. Bill ... From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 26 12:31 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Be careful of duplicate names. It happened a LOT in my villages.


                  Bill


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of JamieLynn
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:18 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

                  Dennis,

                  I am almost positive that I have the right naturalization index, but I could
                  always be wrong. The birth date on the index is the same as his WWl draft
                  card, and 1900 Census. Also one of the witness named on it was his
                  brother-in-law and the "address" listed was the town that he was married in
                  and worked in.

                  Thanks, hopefully I can find a church in that area with will have some
                  records form the churches that where in the early 1900's.

                  Jamie

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Jamie,
                  >
                  > You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
                  > if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
                  > the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
                  > records.
                  >
                  > Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
                  > free of charge..
                  >
                  > How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
                  > you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
                  > researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
                  > picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?
                  >
                  > Dennis
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I
                  > don't really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it
                  > doesn't seem like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that
                  > arrived on the same date, but just with a quick search on
                  > ellisisland.org I didn't come up with anything. There were 800+
                  > passengers listed so I haven't been able to go through each one.
                  > >
                  > > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that
                  > area? I am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
                  > >
                  > > Jamie
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" ddhalusker@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I
                  > did reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
                  > though......my bad.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dennis
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Where did you look for his records?
                  > > > > Dennis
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in
                  > Hungary. Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that
                  > intention.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897,
                  > Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
                  > > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon
                  > Falls, ME, to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly
                  > Tarnó, Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on
                  > #695 Krsty 1869-1884 -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia
                  > 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen Topolosky born May 20,1876.
                  > Could they have been GC rather than RC?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the
                  > 1869 Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6.
                  > Though 1869 pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could
                  > identify their families as at 1869.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Good luck.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
                  > great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are
                  > Topoloski, Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S.
                  > Naturalization Record Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10,
                  > 1892 in New York, New York, but I have been unable to find him. The
                  > first record I have of him in the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
                  > > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
                  > > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
                  > > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
                  > > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
                  > > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
                  > > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I
                  > have I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
                  > > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                  > > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record
                  > Indexes)
                  > > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
                  > > > > > > Thank You,
                  > > > > > > Jamie
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >




                  ------------------------------------

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                • david1law@aol.com
                  Dear All: I definitely agree with Bill about being careful of duplicate names. I found it happening a lot in my genealogical research as well, and the same
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 26 12:43 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear All:

                    I definitely agree with Bill about being careful of duplicate names. I
                    found it happening a lot in my genealogical research as well, and the same
                    name (but the wrong person) can lead one on a wild goose chase. I've seen
                    instances where two males with the exact same name (MATHIAS BALOGA) also had
                    wives with the same first name (ANNA) and both men were born in the same
                    year (1804). It was very confusing until I did a cluster genealogy and was
                    able to eliminate one from being my great, great, great grandparents because
                    the other's wife's baptism (and birth) made it impossible for them to have
                    been the parents of my great, great grandfather.

                    Names were often handed down to honor the parents, grandparents, etc., and
                    I have also seen it where my great grandfather, great great grandfather and
                    great great great grandfather all bore the exact same name -- JAN HRONEC).
                    It was confusing until I searched through all of the records relating to
                    all HRONEC's in the church records.

                    One technique that has helped me is the cluster genealogy search when
                    examining the church records. After I have done a preliminary search where I
                    have found records to my family, I go over the records again for all entries
                    regarding the surname as well as any and all potential variants in
                    spelling, and I keep track of every entry, and then after I am finished with the
                    searching, (1) I compile the list of all the entries and then (2) I
                    subsequently organized them into known connections (all children from the same
                    parents, etc.). In doing the cluster genealogy approach, I am more certain of
                    the results that I have achieved and I have a greater detail as to all of
                    the family members. I highly recommend it if you have the time. It reduces
                    the chances for errors that come when one hop-scotches around the church
                    records looking for a particular person too.


                    Best regards,

                    David


                    In a message dated 7/26/2011 3:32:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    bill.tarkulich@... writes:

                    Be careful of duplicate names. It happened a LOT in my villages.


                    Bill


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                    On
                    Behalf Of JamieLynn
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 3:18 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

                    Dennis,

                    I am almost positive that I have the right naturalization index, but I
                    could
                    always be wrong. The birth date on the index is the same as his WWl draft
                    card, and 1900 Census. Also one of the witness named on it was his
                    brother-in-law and the "address" listed was the town that he was married in
                    and worked in.

                    Thanks, hopefully I can find a church in that area with will have some
                    records form the churches that where in the early 1900's.

                    Jamie

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Jamie,
                    >
                    > You mentioned naturalization index of 1904....that is rather early but
                    > if you were able to establish an address and and a possible spelling of
                    > the surname the local achives(?) or court house may still have the
                    > records.
                    >
                    > Try the local churches in the area first as suggested...that is usually
                    > free of charge..
                    >
                    > How do you know that you have the correct person in the index? Sometimes
                    > you can "feel" you are correct,but that takes a few years of
                    > researching and that sense needs to be developed over time.....Cherry
                    > picking can be fruitless sometimes....right Bill?
                    >
                    > Dennis
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I
                    > don't really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it
                    > doesn't seem like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that
                    > arrived on the same date, but just with a quick search on
                    > ellisisland.org I didn't come up with anything. There were 800+
                    > passengers listed so I haven't been able to go through each one.
                    > >
                    > > Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that
                    > area? I am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.
                    > >
                    > > Jamie
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" ddhalusker@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I
                    > did reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
                    > though......my bad.
                    > > >
                    > > > Dennis
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Where did you look for his records?
                    > > > > Dennis
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in
                    > Hungary. Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that
                    > intention.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897,
                    > Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Ellis Island Clue:
                    > > > > > Karkos, Elisabeth Tarno 17 1880 1897
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon
                    > Falls, ME, to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly
                    > Tarnó, Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on
                    > #695 Krsty 1869-1884 -- Man¾elstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia
                    > 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen Topolosky born May 20,1876.
                    > Could they have been GC rather than RC?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the
                    > 1869 Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6.
                    > Though 1869 pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could
                    > identify their families as at 1869.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Good luck.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
                    > great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are
                    > Topoloski, Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S.
                    > Naturalization Record Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10,
                    > 1892 in New York, New York, but I have been unable to find him. The
                    > first record I have of him in the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
                    > > > > > > Here is what I know about it.
                    > > > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
                    > > > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
                    > > > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
                    > > > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
                    > > > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I
                    > have I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
                    > > > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                    > > > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record
                    > Indexes)
                    > > > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
                    > > > > > > Thank You,
                    > > > > > > Jamie
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >




                    ------------------------------------

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                    ------------------------------------

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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    Jamie, they absolute key to moving ahead is to identify the village of birth. As I mentioned in a reply to Dennis H, I have already reviewed the online RC
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 26 1:25 PM
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                      Jamie, they absolute key to moving ahead is to identify the village of birth. As I mentioned in a reply to Dennis H, I have already reviewed the online RC church records for Tarno and the GC records in adjacent villages -- and did not find the surnames around the mentioned dates.

                      I guess that I was hoping for an easy home run but that was not to be!
                    • lkocik@comcast.net
                      Jamie  Bill might have equals on this forum, but there is certainly no one better for giving advice.  I have a few things to humbly add as far as
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 26 6:42 PM
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                        Jamie

                         Bill might have equals on this forum, but there is certainly no one better for giving advice.

                         I have a few things to humbly add as far as corroborating  data;...make note of house numbers and godparents/witnesses when they're available.

                          When you notice handwriting changes which would indicate a new scribe be aware of personal idiosyncrasies of the new scribe. It's also good to understand basic prefixes on surnames like; a, ka, ova, ovic, ovych,etc....and the extra z or s that will follow the letter c in Magyar records, the point being even with the additional letters it is still your surname.

                         And to paraphrase what Bill says; there are no short cuts, but the rewards are worth the effort.

                         Good luck in your research...it will grow on you.

                        respectfully

                        Larry Kocik

                         



                        ----- Original Message -----




                        From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:16:49 PM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records Topolsky  Karkos

                        Hi Jamie,
                        I'm on the road, so I may not see any  of these messages for a week or more.
                        Mea culpa.

                        Here's my take on your research.  No offense intended, but I see the same
                        mistakes again and again.

                        1) Spelling, translation and transcription errors.  You said you've checked
                        sources, but how many variations have you really checked?  If you haven't
                        tried at least a hundred variations, you're not looking hard enough.  Most
                        people give up quickly if they try to "cherry pick".  Cherry pickers are
                        interested for about four weeks or so, then disappear.  Let that not be you.
                        Successful searches will take a few years.  Only a very few people get
                        "lucky".

                        Errors introduced.  Transcription errors (from handwritten to typed) - poor
                        handwriting,.  How to work it? Search on partial names.  Search on sounds
                        like names, search on looks like names.  Get a list of old cursive
                        handwriting - for example an "s" looking like modern day "f".

                         2)When this doesn't work, look for a village name by searching on friends,
                        married-in-family, neighborhoods, churches.  Don't forget all the errors
                        described in (1).  Immigrants often clustered together.  How about census?
                        Either national or state?  Take the villages and feed them into Steve
                        Morse's tool and see what names pop up for the village.  You may see one of
                        your names, written or transcribed very, very badly.  I cannot tell you how
                        many times I've seen this solve a piece.

                        3. Village names usually had an old Hungary-name and then a modern-day
                        village name.  When you have one village, get it mapped to the other name
                        and search on that name.

                        4. Collect all the info you have found - even if you cannot corroborate it.
                        I've sometimes have brainstorms months or years later, pulled out the data
                        and voila! a match.   I've even found stillborn children this way, even
                        though they never appeared on the church records.

                        5. Getting records out of the church is like pulling teeth.  Very rarely
                        possible, but a good donation might help

                        BTW, always put your surnames or village names in the message subject.  It
                        may prompt more people to open your message rather than a generic topic.

                        That's all for now.  Read
                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
                        Oh, and if I didn't mention it, death certificates are most often useless.

                        Good luck.


                        Bill

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of JamieLynn
                        Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 8:47 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] Re: Help finding immigration records

                        The only places I have looked are ellisisland.org and ancestry.com. I don't
                        really know where else to look. I thought I had a lead but it doesn't seem
                        like it is panning out. I found a ship (Bohemia) that arrived on the same
                        date, but just with a quick search on ellisisland.org I didn't come up with
                        anything. There were 800+ passengers listed so I haven't been able to go
                        through each one.

                        Also, are there any good websites for researching genealogy for that area? I
                        am pretty new to this so I am not too sure where to start.

                        Jamie
                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sorry John,I should have directed the question to Jamie although I did
                        reply to her.....we are still speaking of Naturalization records
                        though......my bad.
                        >
                        > Dennis
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "patskanovo" <ddhalusker@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Where did you look for his records?
                        > > Dennis
                        > >
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Assumption: Karkos and Topolsky families knew each other in Hungary.
                        Marriage was "arranged". Elizabeth came to USA with that intention.
                        > > >
                        > > > Fact: Marriage to Topolsky by Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon
                        Falls, Maine.
                        > > >
                        > > > Ellis Island Clue:
                        > > > Karkos, Elisabeth         Tarno         17         1880         1897
                        > > >
                        > > > Elisabeth arrived August 31, 1897 and was headed for Lisbon Falls, ME,
                        to be with her brother. Born in Tarno.
                        > > >
                        > > > LDS has online RC church records Tarnov, Slovakia, formerly Tarnó,
                        Sáros, Hungary. I checked but did NOT find her birth on #695 Krsty 1869-1884
                        -- Manželstvá 1869-1884 -- Úmrtia 1869-1884. Neither did I find John Stephen
                        Topolosky born May 20,1876. Could they have been GC rather than RC?
                        > > >
                        > > > Also available via your nearest LDS Family History Center is the 1869
                        Hungarian Census for Tarnó (Tarnov) on Film # 2150639 Item 6. Though 1869
                        pre-dates the birth of your people, the census could identify their families
                        as at 1869.
                        > > >
                        > > > Good luck.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "JamieLynn" <jtopping82@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I need some help trying to find immigration records for my
                        great-grandfather, John Stephen Topolosky (other spellings are Topoloski,
                        Topolovsky, and Topolovszky.) According to U.S. Naturalization Record
                        Indexes,the date and port of arrival are June 10, 1892 in New York, New
                        York, but I have been unable to find him. The first record I have of him in
                        the U.S. is his marriage in 1897.
                        > > > > Here is what I know about it.
                        > > > > John Stephen Topolosky
                        > > > > Born: May 20,1876 (not too sure where)
                        > > > > Death: May 26, 1982
                        > > > > Father: Joseph Topolosky
                        > > > > Mother: Marie (I am not to sure her surname. The only record I have
                        I can't make it out. I know it starts with a "K".)
                        > > > > Arrival: June 10,1892 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                        > > > > Naturalization: Aug. 20,1904 (U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes)
                        > > > > Marriage: Elizabeth Karkos, Nov.6, 1897, Lisbon Falls, Maine.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Any help would be much appreciated.
                        > > > > Thank You,
                        > > > > Jamie
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >




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