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Re: [S-R] question about old alphabet

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  • nilo3rak
    Here s source/site that you may want to view: http://genealogy.about.com/od/paleography/qt/old_script.htm Author, Kimberly Powell states The old style S often
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 26, 2011
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      Here's source/site that you may want to view:
      http://genealogy.about.com/od/paleography/qt/old_script.htm
      Author, Kimberly Powell states
      "The old style S often appeared as f or p, especially when followed by a second s. This is apparent in commonly mis-transcribed words such as Jefse and Jepe for Jesse."

      Another resource for 18th, 19th, and early 20th century letters is
      http://www.genealogia.fi/faq/faq031e.htm
      You'll see an "s" that looks like a "p."
      Carolyn



      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, n8de@... wrote:
      >
      > Old script will sometimes look like: ps ... for the 'double-s'.
      >
      > Capital J,P,S,R might all look alike, also.
      >
      > Best luck
      > Don Havlicek
      >
      >
      > Quoting stevemartonak <stevemartonak@...>:
      >
      > > I'm looking through the online records for Lipany/Hethars and one of
      > > the surnames that appears is Lesko/Lessko, except in the 1857
      > > confirmations where I see several instances of "Lepko". The "p" in
      > > no way resembles the loopy double 's' of old English/American but
      > > rather looks exactly like the "p" in "Stephanus" and "Josephus". Am
      > > I never the less probably looking at a double 's'?
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Elaine Powell
      Steve, I have been reviewing RC church records for several towns in eastern Slovakia, and in one of the films, the person recording the names did use a form of
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 26, 2011
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        Steve,

        I have been reviewing RC church records for several towns in eastern
        Slovakia, and in one of the films, the person recording the names did
        use a form of the double s where the first letter had a large lower
        loop. I can't say that it looked like the letter "p" to me, but it
        was definitely a relatively unique character.

        When you gave the information about the source, was it for a microfilm
        roll that you're viewing at a Family History Center, or a reference to
        one of the online records? It's helpful for the group to either know
        the reference for online films, so they can go look directly, or to be
        able to look at a photo of as much of the entire microfilm page as
        possible so that the handwriting can be compared based on a larger
        sample.

        You mention that this stylization occurred in the 1857 confirmations--
        is it also used in other records for marriage or death? That could be
        helpful for you to review also.

        Elaine P


        On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:01 PM, stevemartonak wrote:

        > The name in question is found several times on images 77, 78, and 79
        > of the Lipany (Hethars) record Inv. #. 563, 1842-1888 but the real
        > question is not about this specific name but simply was a ligature
        > for double ess in use at that time and place?
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Steve,
        > > Just give us the citation so we can look at the item ourselves.
        > Can't answer your question without looking at it.
        > >
        > > Curt B.
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "stevemartonak"
        > <stevemartonak@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I'm looking through the online records for Lipany/Hethars and
        > one of the surnames that appears is Lesko/Lessko, except in the 1857
        > confirmations where I see several instances of "Lepko". The "p" in
        > no way resembles the loopy double 's' of old English/American but
        > rather looks exactly like the "p" in "Stephanus" and "Josephus". Am
        > I never the less probably looking at a double 's'?
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • CurtB
        Steve, What you have found is a very common script usage, not just in the nineteenth century, but used in many languages from medieval latin to modern languges
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 26, 2011
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          Steve,
          What you have found is a very common script usage, not just in the nineteenth century, but used in many languages from medieval latin to modern languges that use the Latin alphabet like German, Hungarian, Italian, etc. It is still common in formal European handwriting even today, though rarely in English. German has a special double s writing convention.

          It is not a ligature. The writing convention is that an internal letter ess (not the beginning of a word) may be written in what seems to you to be a form of the letter f. It really isn't, but it is close, lacking a crossbar. It readily confuses English language readers. On the page 77 you cite look at the name Susana repeated many times as a chosen confirmation name. It may seem to be spelled Sufana, but that is what the internal s looks like. A double internal s, however is always written as fs, that is, the first s gets the flourish but the second one is always written traditionally. It may seem to look like a single letter p, but in natural flow of the script it is just fs.

          Also on page 77, see the column heading for Nomen assumptum, that is, name assumed at confirmation. To someone unfamiliar with the internal s convention it may seem spelled apumptum, but he is just writing afsumptum, which is what the double internal s looks like.

          Take it in stride, and you will get to read it with ease.

          Curt B.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "stevemartonak" <stevemartonak@...> wrote:
          >
          > The name in question is found several times on images 77, 78, and 79
          > of the Lipany (Hethars) record Inv. #. 563, 1842-1888 but the real question is not about this specific name but simply was a ligature for double ess in use at that time and place?
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Steve,
          > > Just give us the citation so we can look at the item ourselves. Can't answer your question without looking at it.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "stevemartonak" <stevemartonak@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I'm looking through the online records for Lipany/Hethars and one of the surnames that appears is Lesko/Lessko, except in the 1857 confirmations where I see several instances of "Lepko". The "p" in no way resembles the loopy double 's' of old English/American but rather looks exactly like the "p" in "Stephanus" and "Josephus". Am I never the less probably looking at a double 's'?
          > > >
          > >
          >
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