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Re: [S-R] Re: Emigration of Young Women

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  • Julie Michutka
    Thank you, Carolyn! Julie Michutka jmm@pathbridge.net
    Message 1 of 48 , Feb 21, 2011
      Thank you, Carolyn!

      Julie Michutka
      jmm@...

      On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:05 PM, nilo3rak wrote:

      > Julie Michutka asked for my reference. I thought others may want
      > this information, especially those with a propensity for legal
      > research.
      >
      > Reference: EMIGRATION AND IMMIGRATION: LEGISLATION AND TREATIES
      > Author: International Labour Office
      > Publisher: Geneva, 1922
      >
      > Available online through the Internet Archive, digitizer/
      > contributor: University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/emigrationimmigr00inte/emigrationimmigr00inte_djvu.txt
      >
      > This work is over 400 pages and deals only with measures, laws,
      > regulations and treaties, of 76 countries adopted before January
      > 1922. These countries are Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Australia,
      > Austria, Belgium, the
      > Bermudas, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia,
      > the Belgian Congo, Corea, Costa Rica, Cuba, Curacao, Czechoslovakia,
      > Denmark, Ecuador, Esthonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain
      > and Ireland, Greece, Guatemaia, British Guiana, Dutch Guiana, Haiti,
      > Honduras, Hungary, India, Netherlands Indies, Italy, Japan, Latvia,
      > Liberia, Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Luxemburg, the Republic of San
      > Marino, Morocco, Mexico, the Principality of Monaco, Mozambique,
      > Netherlands, Newfound-land, New Zealand, Norway, Palestine, Panama,
      > Paraguay, Persia, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Rhodesia. Roumania,
      > Russia, Salvador, Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Siam,
      > Spain, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Tanganyika, Tunis, Turkey,
      > United States, Uruguay, Venezuela, Zanzibar.
      >
      > Happy reading!
      > Carolyn
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <eirrac25@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> In Hungary, two legislative acts prior to WWI address the
      >> emigration of young women and children in general:
      >> Order of 1869 concerning the emigration of women and girls and
      >> Emigration Act of 18 February 1909.
      >>
      >> (7) According to the Hungarian Act (1909), minors who
      >> are under parental authority may emigrate without their father
      >> only if they have authority in writing, stamped with the
      >> official visa. Those who are under the care of a guardian must
      >> have the formal permission of their guardian and of the
      >> guardians' authorities. In either case they are not allowed to
      >> emigrate unless it can be shown that their support is provided
      >> for at the place to which they are going.
      >>
      >> — 18 —
      >> Women who are not yet of age and boys less than 16 years
      >> of age may emigrate without their parents only if it can be
      >> shown, apart from the conditions mentioned above, that they
      >> are travelling to their destination with an adult person abso-
      >> lutely worthy of confidence.
      >>
      >> (3) In Hungary, in addition to the general provisions of
      >> the Emigration Act of 1909, the instruction issued to all muni-
      >> cipalities by the Minister of the Interior in 1869 requires them
      >> to prevent" the journey of young girls or women to the East
      >> for immoral purposes.
      >>
      >> After WWI:
      >> (5) According to the Czechoslovak Bill, minors not tra-
      >> velling with their parents must be provided with the autho-
      >> risation of the official Council of Guardians. This provision does
      >> not apply to minors over 18 years of age going to a European
      >> country. The Council of Guardians may, however, prohibit
      >> the journey if it considers that the effects would be detrimental
      >> to the morality or health of the person concerned. Women under
      >> age and boys of less than 16 years of age may further emigrate
      >> without their parents if accompanied to their final destination
      >> by adults of over 24 years of age who are fully reliable.
      >>
      >> (4) By Hungarian law, emigration is forbidden to parents
      >> who leave children less than 16 years of age behind them with-
      >> out having made arrangements for their welfare in the future,
      >> and also to persons who have not made arrangements for
      >> dependents incapable of working.
      >>
      >> In addition there were several international conventions and
      >> agreements prohibiting white slavery and prostitution. They are
      >> too numerous to mention here. (Note that this problem exists
      >> today. No amount of legislation or international agreements have
      >> wiped it out. Immoral, illegal, but highly profitable much like
      >> the drug trade.)
      >>
      >> Carolyn
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@>
      >> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Bill,
      >>> It looks like this subject needs some research. Most of the
      >>> information
      >>> on single women of a young age emigrating to America has been
      >>> "hearsay". We
      >>> now have three real young women of 15 coming here alone. So we
      >>> know it was
      >>> done, but what were the rules and regulations?
      >>>
      >>> --------------------------------------------------
      >>> From: "William F Brna" <wfbrna@>
      >>> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:16 AM
      >>> To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      >>> Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Castle near Hromos
      >>>
      >>>> Michael,
      >>>>
      >>>> My mother was 15 when she landed in Baltimore on December 23, 1906.
      >>>> There is no indication that she was traveling with anyone,
      >>>> though she
      >>>> did have a sponsor (her aunt) in Cleveland.
      >>>>
      >>>> Bill Brna
      >>>>
      >>>> On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:58:05 -0700 "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@>
      >>>> writes:
      >>>>
      >>>> Laurie,
      >>>> In 1902/3 I would doubt that "Kata" at 15 came alone. There was a
      >>>> rule
      >>>> about young women being 19 or older being allowed in. But then my
      >>>> Mother
      >>>> says her mother was 15 and came in during the same years. A
      >>>> genealogist
      >>>> in Slovakia said that a legal paper showing a girl to be 19 was
      >>>> reused
      >>>> many times. One the girl got to America she would mail it home for
      >>>> someone else to use. Since I don't know the name on that document.
      >>>> Because of that it will be impossible to find my grandmother's
      >>>> entry into
      >>>> the USA. Look at the original Ships Manifest and see if someone
      >>>> from the
      >>>> same place was listed by Kata. That could have been the person
      >>>> that got
      >>>> her into the USA.
      >>>> Also during this period the shipping companies had agents all over
      >>>> Europe. One of their duties was to guide the passengers to the
      >>>> port they
      >>>> were leaving from. They offered many helpful services. They were
      >>>> virtually handed over to the agent who passed them on to the next
      >>>> agent.
      >>>> So getting to the port was not a problem.
      >>>> The problem would have been raising enough money for the trip.
      >>>> With that
      >>>> nine month lapse between leaving Hromos and arriving John
      >>>> presumes she
      >>>> must have worked to raise the funds during those nine months. My
      >>>> grandmother gave her earnings to her god-mother. When there was
      >>>> enough
      >>>> god-mother arrived with the money and grandmother left the next
      >>>> day.
      >>>>
      >>>> From: lmkennyjr
      >>>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:29 PM
      >>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >>>> Subject: [S-R] Re: Castle near Hromos
      >>>>
      >>>> John, I'm new to this. I don't under stand your comment...
      >>>> <One can only wonder how she paid for the transit. That might
      >>>> explain the
      >>>> length of time that passed.>
      >>>>
      >>>> Is that because of her age (15) and travelling alone?
      >>>>
      >>>> Laurie
      >>>>
      >>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>>> John wondered about the info in the last column. It is Exr.
      >>>>>>>> 1902
      >>>> IX/16 Am or Immigrated 1902 September 16 to America. . . . She
      >>>> came in
      >>>> under the name Kata Hanzelka. Arrived May 6 1903. Age 15. So it
      >>>> took her
      >>>> 9 months from the time she left Plavec to get to America. She was
      >>>> headed
      >>>> to Bridgeport (I call it little Hromos because so many immigrants
      >>>> settled
      >>>> there) to join her Uncle Pal Hanzelko at 688 Pembrook (I believe
      >>>> that is
      >>>> correct). <<<
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Good work on the EI reference. I checked EI but could not pin
      >>>>> down the
      >>>> connection. >
      >>>>
      >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ____________________________________________________________
      >>>> Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED
      >>>> $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes!
      >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ca8747f6397aa532m06vuc
      >>>>
      >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>
      >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >>>>
      >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      >>>> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      >>>> email to
      >>>> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
      > ! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Julie Michutka
      Thank you, Carolyn! Julie Michutka jmm@pathbridge.net
      Message 48 of 48 , Feb 21, 2011
        Thank you, Carolyn!

        Julie Michutka
        jmm@...

        On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:05 PM, nilo3rak wrote:

        > Julie Michutka asked for my reference. I thought others may want
        > this information, especially those with a propensity for legal
        > research.
        >
        > Reference: EMIGRATION AND IMMIGRATION: LEGISLATION AND TREATIES
        > Author: International Labour Office
        > Publisher: Geneva, 1922
        >
        > Available online through the Internet Archive, digitizer/
        > contributor: University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
        > http://www.archive.org/stream/emigrationimmigr00inte/emigrationimmigr00inte_djvu.txt
        >
        > This work is over 400 pages and deals only with measures, laws,
        > regulations and treaties, of 76 countries adopted before January
        > 1922. These countries are Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Australia,
        > Austria, Belgium, the
        > Bermudas, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia,
        > the Belgian Congo, Corea, Costa Rica, Cuba, Curacao, Czechoslovakia,
        > Denmark, Ecuador, Esthonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain
        > and Ireland, Greece, Guatemaia, British Guiana, Dutch Guiana, Haiti,
        > Honduras, Hungary, India, Netherlands Indies, Italy, Japan, Latvia,
        > Liberia, Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Luxemburg, the Republic of San
        > Marino, Morocco, Mexico, the Principality of Monaco, Mozambique,
        > Netherlands, Newfound-land, New Zealand, Norway, Palestine, Panama,
        > Paraguay, Persia, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Rhodesia. Roumania,
        > Russia, Salvador, Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Siam,
        > Spain, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Tanganyika, Tunis, Turkey,
        > United States, Uruguay, Venezuela, Zanzibar.
        >
        > Happy reading!
        > Carolyn
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <eirrac25@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> In Hungary, two legislative acts prior to WWI address the
        >> emigration of young women and children in general:
        >> Order of 1869 concerning the emigration of women and girls and
        >> Emigration Act of 18 February 1909.
        >>
        >> (7) According to the Hungarian Act (1909), minors who
        >> are under parental authority may emigrate without their father
        >> only if they have authority in writing, stamped with the
        >> official visa. Those who are under the care of a guardian must
        >> have the formal permission of their guardian and of the
        >> guardians' authorities. In either case they are not allowed to
        >> emigrate unless it can be shown that their support is provided
        >> for at the place to which they are going.
        >>
        >> — 18 —
        >> Women who are not yet of age and boys less than 16 years
        >> of age may emigrate without their parents only if it can be
        >> shown, apart from the conditions mentioned above, that they
        >> are travelling to their destination with an adult person abso-
        >> lutely worthy of confidence.
        >>
        >> (3) In Hungary, in addition to the general provisions of
        >> the Emigration Act of 1909, the instruction issued to all muni-
        >> cipalities by the Minister of the Interior in 1869 requires them
        >> to prevent" the journey of young girls or women to the East
        >> for immoral purposes.
        >>
        >> After WWI:
        >> (5) According to the Czechoslovak Bill, minors not tra-
        >> velling with their parents must be provided with the autho-
        >> risation of the official Council of Guardians. This provision does
        >> not apply to minors over 18 years of age going to a European
        >> country. The Council of Guardians may, however, prohibit
        >> the journey if it considers that the effects would be detrimental
        >> to the morality or health of the person concerned. Women under
        >> age and boys of less than 16 years of age may further emigrate
        >> without their parents if accompanied to their final destination
        >> by adults of over 24 years of age who are fully reliable.
        >>
        >> (4) By Hungarian law, emigration is forbidden to parents
        >> who leave children less than 16 years of age behind them with-
        >> out having made arrangements for their welfare in the future,
        >> and also to persons who have not made arrangements for
        >> dependents incapable of working.
        >>
        >> In addition there were several international conventions and
        >> agreements prohibiting white slavery and prostitution. They are
        >> too numerous to mention here. (Note that this problem exists
        >> today. No amount of legislation or international agreements have
        >> wiped it out. Immoral, illegal, but highly profitable much like
        >> the drug trade.)
        >>
        >> Carolyn
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@>
        >> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Bill,
        >>> It looks like this subject needs some research. Most of the
        >>> information
        >>> on single women of a young age emigrating to America has been
        >>> "hearsay". We
        >>> now have three real young women of 15 coming here alone. So we
        >>> know it was
        >>> done, but what were the rules and regulations?
        >>>
        >>> --------------------------------------------------
        >>> From: "William F Brna" <wfbrna@>
        >>> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:16 AM
        >>> To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        >>> Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Castle near Hromos
        >>>
        >>>> Michael,
        >>>>
        >>>> My mother was 15 when she landed in Baltimore on December 23, 1906.
        >>>> There is no indication that she was traveling with anyone,
        >>>> though she
        >>>> did have a sponsor (her aunt) in Cleveland.
        >>>>
        >>>> Bill Brna
        >>>>
        >>>> On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:58:05 -0700 "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@>
        >>>> writes:
        >>>>
        >>>> Laurie,
        >>>> In 1902/3 I would doubt that "Kata" at 15 came alone. There was a
        >>>> rule
        >>>> about young women being 19 or older being allowed in. But then my
        >>>> Mother
        >>>> says her mother was 15 and came in during the same years. A
        >>>> genealogist
        >>>> in Slovakia said that a legal paper showing a girl to be 19 was
        >>>> reused
        >>>> many times. One the girl got to America she would mail it home for
        >>>> someone else to use. Since I don't know the name on that document.
        >>>> Because of that it will be impossible to find my grandmother's
        >>>> entry into
        >>>> the USA. Look at the original Ships Manifest and see if someone
        >>>> from the
        >>>> same place was listed by Kata. That could have been the person
        >>>> that got
        >>>> her into the USA.
        >>>> Also during this period the shipping companies had agents all over
        >>>> Europe. One of their duties was to guide the passengers to the
        >>>> port they
        >>>> were leaving from. They offered many helpful services. They were
        >>>> virtually handed over to the agent who passed them on to the next
        >>>> agent.
        >>>> So getting to the port was not a problem.
        >>>> The problem would have been raising enough money for the trip.
        >>>> With that
        >>>> nine month lapse between leaving Hromos and arriving John
        >>>> presumes she
        >>>> must have worked to raise the funds during those nine months. My
        >>>> grandmother gave her earnings to her god-mother. When there was
        >>>> enough
        >>>> god-mother arrived with the money and grandmother left the next
        >>>> day.
        >>>>
        >>>> From: lmkennyjr
        >>>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:29 PM
        >>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >>>> Subject: [S-R] Re: Castle near Hromos
        >>>>
        >>>> John, I'm new to this. I don't under stand your comment...
        >>>> <One can only wonder how she paid for the transit. That might
        >>>> explain the
        >>>> length of time that passed.>
        >>>>
        >>>> Is that because of her age (15) and travelling alone?
        >>>>
        >>>> Laurie
        >>>>
        >>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>>>>> John wondered about the info in the last column. It is Exr.
        >>>>>>>> 1902
        >>>> IX/16 Am or Immigrated 1902 September 16 to America. . . . She
        >>>> came in
        >>>> under the name Kata Hanzelka. Arrived May 6 1903. Age 15. So it
        >>>> took her
        >>>> 9 months from the time she left Plavec to get to America. She was
        >>>> headed
        >>>> to Bridgeport (I call it little Hromos because so many immigrants
        >>>> settled
        >>>> there) to join her Uncle Pal Hanzelko at 688 Pembrook (I believe
        >>>> that is
        >>>> correct). <<<
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Good work on the EI reference. I checked EI but could not pin
        >>>>> down the
        >>>> connection. >
        >>>>
        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> ____________________________________________________________
        >>>> Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED
        >>>> $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes!
        >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ca8747f6397aa532m06vuc
        >>>>
        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> ------------------------------------
        >>>>
        >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
        >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >>>>
        >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        >>>> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        >>>> email to
        >>>> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
        > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
        > ! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
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