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Passenger Lists general question

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  • Nancy Gibbs
    My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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      My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
      of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
      sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
      been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
      when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
      Nancy




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Stankowitz
      You ll see that a lot I m sure. My wife s grandfather was listed as 2, but we think he was actually younger (he was in his second year ). The birth year is
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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        You'll see that a lot I'm sure. My wife's grandfather was listed as 2, but
        we think he was actually younger (he was in his "second year").

        The birth year is sometimes calculated by subtracting the age listed from
        the current year. That math can be imprecise, so you will see a lot of
        search engines giving you options to search on the birth year +/-1, and +/-
        2. I assume that is why.

        I am relatively new at this, someone else may have more insight. I also see
        the arrival year change, which is a bit more disturbing, and makes things
        difficult. I remember what year i went to another country to visit, i have a
        hard time believing that someone would forget when they emigrated from their
        home to start a new life. I think for that, that folks wanted to appear as
        if they had been in the US longer than they had. But again, new at this,
        someone else may know better.

        HTH,
        Scott



        On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Nancy Gibbs <bohnenstiehl1952@...>wrote:

        > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
        > age
        > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just
        > guess
        > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would
        > have
        > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as
        > 4
        > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
        > Nancy
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        Sometimes, dates are in error due to an inadvertent mistake. An example. My mother was unfailing in her recollection of dates -- without any notes. My brother,
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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          Sometimes, dates are in error due to an inadvertent mistake. An example. My mother was unfailing in her recollection of dates -- without any notes. My brother, her first child, died at a young age in Slovakia. As I was gathering genealogy information, mother gave me his date of birth. I put that date in my database and never verified it -- until much later.

          I had a headstone produced and installed on his grave in Senne, near Palin, south of Michalovce. It was then that my sister observed that the date of birth belonged to my brother-in-law Michael and NOT my brother Michael. Right year, wrong day and month. Unless I change the headstone, the inscription will continue to be in error.
        • Frank R Plichta
          Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn t know and just guessed.
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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            Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
            important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
            just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
            compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
            that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
            didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
            track of that information.



            Frank



            _____

            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
            To: Slovak Roots Group
            Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question





            My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
            age
            of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

            sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
            been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
            when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
            Nancy

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Mojher
            Nancy et al, You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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              Nancy et al,
              You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as we do. The Liturgical calendar and seasonal celebrations marked the passing of time. When a child was born the parish and civil registers were the few places the event was recorded. Unless it was written down at home the precise date could be forgotten. A second social phenomenon that affects the remembering of a birth date is the “Name Day”. It was more important to celebrate that than the birthday. This is still practiced in Slovakia. In the end any date found outside of the official records is suspect if it doesn’t match. Just be aware that being precise in the past isn’t as important as it is today.
              Michael

              From: Nancy Gibbs
              Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:07 AM
              To: Slovak Roots Group
              Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question


              My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
              of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
              sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
              been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
              when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
              Nancy

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • CHERYL MOSER
              I concur with Frank s theory. I too have encountered many errors with dates of birth and immigration. I know I am going way back but I was reading about the
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                I concur with Frank's theory. I too have encountered many errors with dates of birth and immigration. I know I am going way back but I was reading about the many wives of King Henry and the biography states for Anne Bolyn that her date of birth was never recorded when she was born because she was not considered important enough until many years later. I think that partially holds true for our ancestors from 100+ years ago as well as, paper and writing material would probably have been considered a luxury for peasants (like my ancestors). The were not intuned to remembering and documenting like we are today with dates, SS numbers, etc. I have also been told that people lied on the census too for various reasons. Makes the research challenge even more of a challenge!! Just my 2 cents.


                Cheryl Moser





                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                From: frank.r.plichta@...
                Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:11:00 -0500
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question






                Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                track of that information.

                Frank

                _____

                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                To: Slovak Roots Group
                Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                age
                of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

                sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                Nancy

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nancy Gibbs
                Thanks for all the comments on my question. When I was reading the responses, I got a little sad. These kids didn t get to celebrate their birthdays like we
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                  Thanks for all the comments on my question. When I was reading the responses, I
                  got a little sad. These kids didn't get to celebrate their birthdays like we do
                  today. Also, it's amazing that my grandfather knew his birthday; it was exactly
                  what was in the church record. He must have been small for his age to be listed
                  as being 4 when he was actually 9.

                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 11:13:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question


                  Nancy et al,
                  You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not
                  have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as we do. The
                  Liturgical calendar and seasonal celebrations marked the passing of time. When a
                  child was born the parish and civil registers were the few places the event was
                  recorded. Unless it was written down at home the precise date could be
                  forgotten. A second social phenomenon that affects the remembering of a birth
                  date is the “Name Day”. It was more important to celebrate that than the
                  birthday. This is still practiced in Slovakia. In the end any date found outside
                  of the official records is suspect if it doesn’t match. Just be aware that being
                  precise in the past isn’t as important as it is today.
                  Michael

                  From: Nancy Gibbs
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:07 AM
                  To: Slovak Roots Group
                  Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                  My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
                  of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                  sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                  been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                  when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                  Nancy

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • helene cincebeaux
                  Big Mystery - my father celebrated his birthday Dec. 7 - it was on his mother s passport when he came with his parents as an infant. Couldn t find him in the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                    Big Mystery - my father celebrated his birthday Dec. 7 - it was on his mother's
                    passport when he came with his parents as an infant. Couldn't find him in the
                    archives but a big search found his real birthdate was actually Jan 17, 1910.

                    Why the discrepancy???? Did an infant have to be a certain age to travel??? They
                    arrived in Aug 1910 to the Port of Philadephia. This info was on my
                    grandfather's citizenship or declatation papers.  I was pretty excited when i
                    found the file at the National Archives in DC - only my family of 3 were not
                    there - they said sometimes pages of a manifest are lost.


                    But this birth date thing is a big mystery and driving me crazy til i solve it.
                    Any one have any ideas?  Was it a Roman numeral mix up?

                    helene



                    ________________________________
                    From: Nancy Gibbs <bohnenstiehl1952@...>
                    To: Slovak Roots Group <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 11:07:56 AM
                    Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                     
                    My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
                    of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                    sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                    been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                    when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                    Nancy

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • lkocik@comcast.net
                    I agree with Frank.  My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent ,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                      I agree with Frank.

                       My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.

                      I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

                      As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.

                       In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it meant nothing to our ancestors.
                      It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.

                       To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

                       Larry ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                      Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                      important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
                      just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                      compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                      that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
                      didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                      track of that information.

                       

                      Frank

                       

                        _____  

                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                      To: Slovak Roots Group
                      Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                       

                        

                      My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                      age
                      of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

                      sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                      been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                      when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                      Nancy

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • helene cincebeaux
                      Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine s Day? helene ________________________________ From: lkocik@comcast.net To:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                        Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

                        helene




                        ________________________________
                        From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                         


                        I agree with Frank.

                         My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                        documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.


                        I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

                        As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.


                         In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
                        consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it
                        meant nothing to our ancestors.

                        It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
                        in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.


                         To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

                         Larry ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                        Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                        important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
                        just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                        compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                        that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
                        didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                        track of that information.

                         

                        Frank

                         

                          _____  

                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                        To: Slovak Roots Group
                        Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                         

                          

                        My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                        age
                        of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

                        sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                        been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                        when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                        Nancy

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • lkocik@comcast.net
                        Helene  Thank you...  It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.  It s actually so simple I don t know why I never seen that.  I would think
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                          Helene

                           Thank you...

                           It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.

                           It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.

                           I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.

                           I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.

                           It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.

                           Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.

                           Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.

                           It's not the first time you've done this for me.

                           Thanks Helene

                          Larry----- Original Message -----
                          From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                          Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

                          helene




                          ________________________________
                          From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                           


                          I agree with Frank.

                           My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                          documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.


                          I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

                          As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.


                           In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
                          consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it
                          meant nothing to our ancestors.

                          It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
                          in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.


                           To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

                           Larry ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                          Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                          important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
                          just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                          compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                          that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
                          didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                          track of that information.

                           

                          Frank

                           

                            _____  

                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                          To: Slovak Roots Group
                          Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                           

                            

                          My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                          age
                          of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

                          sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                          been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                          when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                          Nancy

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill Tarkulich
                          As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint s Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                            As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.


                            Bill


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question



                            Helene

                            Thank you...

                            It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.

                            It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.

                            I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.

                            I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.

                            It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.

                            Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.

                            Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.

                            It's not the first time you've done this for me.

                            Thanks Helene

                            Larry----- Original Message -----
                            From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                            Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

                            helene




                            ________________________________
                            From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question




                            I agree with Frank.

                            My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                            documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.


                            I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

                            As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.


                            In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
                            consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
                            meant nothing to our ancestors.

                            It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
                            in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.


                            To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

                            Larry ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                            Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                            important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                            just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                            compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                            that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                            didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                            track of that information.



                            Frank



                            _____

                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                            To: Slovak Roots Group
                            Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question





                            My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                            age
                            of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

                            sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                            been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                            when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                            Nancy

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                          • Sandra & John Panzitta
                            Is there a listing of Saint s Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint s Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
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                              Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their births.

                              Sandra
                              On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                              > As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
                              > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                              >
                              > Helene
                              >
                              > Thank you...
                              >
                              > It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
                              >
                              > It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
                              >
                              > I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.
                              >
                              > I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.
                              >
                              > It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.
                              >
                              > Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
                              >
                              > Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
                              >
                              > It's not the first time you've done this for me.
                              >
                              > Thanks Helene
                              >
                              > Larry----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                              >
                              > Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
                              >
                              > helene
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                              >
                              > I agree with Frank.
                              >
                              > My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                              > documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
                              >
                              > I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
                              >
                              > As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.
                              >
                              > In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
                              > consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
                              > meant nothing to our ancestors.
                              >
                              > It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
                              > in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
                              >
                              > To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
                              >
                              > Larry ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                              >
                              > Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                              > important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                              > just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                              > compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                              > that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                              > didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                              > track of that information.
                              >
                              > Frank
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                              > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                              > To: Slovak Roots Group
                              > Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                              >
                              > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                              > age
                              > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                              >
                              > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                              > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                              > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                              > Nancy
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ben Sorensen
                              Here is a link: http://calendar.zoznam.sk/nameday-sksxhor.php Ben ... From: Sandra & John Panzitta To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Here is a link:

                                http://calendar.zoznam.sk/nameday-sksxhor.php

                                Ben



                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...>
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:17:05 PM
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                                Is there a listing  of Saint's Name Days?  I would be curious to see how many of
                                the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
                                births.

                                Sandra
                                On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                                > As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day
                                >was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
                                >day? That's what people remembered.
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                >Behalf Of lkocik@...
                                > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                >
                                > Helene
                                >
                                > Thank you...
                                >
                                > It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
                                >
                                > It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
                                >
                                > I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that
                                >birth.
                                >
                                >
                                > I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense
                                >of pride that I was born on his birthday.
                                >
                                >
                                > It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his
                                >birthday.
                                >
                                >
                                > Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
                                >
                                > Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
                                >
                                > It's not the first time you've done this for me.
                                >
                                > Thanks Helene
                                >
                                > Larry----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                >
                                > Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
                                >
                                > helene
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                >
                                > I agree with Frank.
                                >
                                > My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                                > documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
                                >
                                > I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
                                >
                                > As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably
                                >true.
                                >
                                >
                                > In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of

                                > consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
                                > meant nothing to our ancestors.
                                >
                                > It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters,
                                >but
                                >
                                > in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
                                >
                                > To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
                                >
                                > Larry ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                                > Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                >
                                > Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                                > important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                                > just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                                > compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                                > that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                                > didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                                > track of that information.
                                >
                                > Frank
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                                > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                                > To: Slovak Roots Group
                                > Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                >
                                > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                                > age
                                > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                                >
                                > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                                > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                                > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                                > Nancy
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                >http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                >SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                ------------------------------------

                                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0 -or- send  blank email to
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                              • Lubos Brieda
                                Hi Sandra, here is a list of Slovak name days: http://www.slovensko.com/about/calendar Also, if you get bored, I wrote a little blurb about this few months
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Sandra, here is a list of Slovak name
                                  days: http://www.slovensko.com/about/calendar

                                  Also, if you get bored, I wrote a little blurb about this few months
                                  back: http://www.slovakcooking.com/2010/blog/name-day/




                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:17:05 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

                                  Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of
                                  the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
                                  births.

                                  Sandra
                                  On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

                                  > As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day
                                  >was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
                                  >day? That's what people remembered.
                                  >
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  >Behalf Of lkocik@...
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                  >
                                  > Helene
                                  >
                                  > Thank you...
                                  >
                                  > It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
                                  >
                                  > It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
                                  >
                                  > I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that
                                  >birth.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense
                                  >of pride that I was born on his birthday.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his
                                  >birthday.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
                                  >
                                  > Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
                                  >
                                  > It's not the first time you've done this for me.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks Helene
                                  >
                                  > Larry----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                  >
                                  > Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
                                  >
                                  > helene
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                  >
                                  > I agree with Frank.
                                  >
                                  > My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                                  > documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
                                  >
                                  > I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
                                  >
                                  > As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably
                                  >true.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of

                                  > consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
                                  > meant nothing to our ancestors.
                                  >
                                  > It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters,
                                  >but
                                  >
                                  > in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
                                  >
                                  > To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
                                  >
                                  > Larry ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                                  > Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                  >
                                  > Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                                  > important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                                  > just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                                  > compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                                  > that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                                  > didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                                  > track of that information.
                                  >
                                  > Frank
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                                  > To: Slovak Roots Group
                                  > Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                  >
                                  > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                                  > age
                                  > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                                  >
                                  > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                                  > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                                  > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                                  > Nancy
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                  >
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                  >http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                  >SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------------------------------

                                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • CurtB
                                  Sandra, A saint s day is the liturgical calender (Saints Cycle) of the Roman Catholic Church. Every canonized or customary saint is given a festal day of
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Sandra,
                                    A saint's day is the liturgical calender (Saints Cycle) of the Roman Catholic Church. Every canonized or customary saint is given a festal day of celebration, usually the day of their death, but sometimes another day. The official list is the Roman Martyrology. You can find it online. It varied from place to place over history, or country to country until quite recently. Thus Hungary and Slovakia and Czech Republic and Germany have somewhat different name days, though major ones are the same. Throughout Europe what we call New Year's Eve is usually called Sylvester, because 31 Dec is the liturgical feast day of St. Sylvester.

                                    Since this was such an important church event, no one would have confused a saint day with birthday. Birthday just wasn't important. My grandparents wrote down something different each time they were asked when their birthday was. They just didn't know or care at all. This is just a cultural difference that seems difficult for Americans to grasp. Not a single other document matches their Slovak church birth registers. But my grandfather knew that June 24 was the feast of St. John the Baptist. (His name was John).

                                    Curt B.

                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their births.
                                    >
                                    > Sandra
                                    > On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
                                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                    > >
                                    > > Helene
                                    > >
                                    > > Thank you...
                                    > >
                                    > > It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
                                    > >
                                    > > It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
                                    > >
                                    > > I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.
                                    > >
                                    > > I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.
                                    > >
                                    > > It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.
                                    > >
                                    > > Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
                                    > >
                                    > > Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
                                    > >
                                    > > It's not the first time you've done this for me.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks Helene
                                    > >
                                    > > Larry----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
                                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
                                    > >
                                    > > helene
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                    > >
                                    > > I agree with Frank.
                                    > >
                                    > > My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
                                    > > documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
                                    > >
                                    > > I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
                                    > >
                                    > > As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.
                                    > >
                                    > > In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
                                    > > consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
                                    > > meant nothing to our ancestors.
                                    > >
                                    > > It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
                                    > > in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
                                    > >
                                    > > To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
                                    > >
                                    > > Larry ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
                                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
                                    > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                    > >
                                    > > Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
                                    > > important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
                                    > > just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
                                    > > compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
                                    > > that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
                                    > > didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
                                    > > track of that information.
                                    > >
                                    > > Frank
                                    > >
                                    > > _____
                                    > >
                                    > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    > > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
                                    > > To: Slovak Roots Group
                                    > > Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
                                    > >
                                    > > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
                                    > > age
                                    > > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
                                    > >
                                    > > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
                                    > > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
                                    > > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
                                    > > Nancy
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                    > >
                                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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