## Passenger Lists general question

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• My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
Message 1 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• You ll see that a lot I m sure. My wife s grandfather was listed as 2, but we think he was actually younger (he was in his second year ). The birth year is
Message 2 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
You'll see that a lot I'm sure. My wife's grandfather was listed as 2, but
we think he was actually younger (he was in his "second year").

The birth year is sometimes calculated by subtracting the age listed from
the current year. That math can be imprecise, so you will see a lot of
search engines giving you options to search on the birth year +/-1, and +/-
2. I assume that is why.

I am relatively new at this, someone else may have more insight. I also see
the arrival year change, which is a bit more disturbing, and makes things
difficult. I remember what year i went to another country to visit, i have a
hard time believing that someone would forget when they emigrated from their
home to start a new life. I think for that, that folks wanted to appear as
if they had been in the US longer than they had. But again, new at this,
someone else may know better.

HTH,
Scott

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Nancy Gibbs <bohnenstiehl1952@...>wrote:

> My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
> age
> of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just
> guess
> sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would
> have
> been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as
> 4
> when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
> Nancy
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Sometimes, dates are in error due to an inadvertent mistake. An example. My mother was unfailing in her recollection of dates -- without any notes. My brother,
Message 3 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Sometimes, dates are in error due to an inadvertent mistake. An example. My mother was unfailing in her recollection of dates -- without any notes. My brother, her first child, died at a young age in Slovakia. As I was gathering genealogy information, mother gave me his date of birth. I put that date in my database and never verified it -- until much later.

I had a headstone produced and installed on his grave in Senne, near Palin, south of Michalovce. It was then that my sister observed that the date of birth belonged to my brother-in-law Michael and NOT my brother Michael. Right year, wrong day and month. Unless I change the headstone, the inscription will continue to be in error.
• Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn t know and just guessed.
Message 4 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Nancy et al, You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as
Message 5 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Nancy et al,
You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as we do. The Liturgical calendar and seasonal celebrations marked the passing of time. When a child was born the parish and civil registers were the few places the event was recorded. Unless it was written down at home the precise date could be forgotten. A second social phenomenon that affects the remembering of a birth date is the “Name Day”. It was more important to celebrate that than the birthday. This is still practiced in Slovakia. In the end any date found outside of the official records is suspect if it doesn’t match. Just be aware that being precise in the past isn’t as important as it is today.
Michael

From: Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• I concur with Frank s theory. I too have encountered many errors with dates of birth and immigration. I know I am going way back but I was reading about the
Message 6 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
I concur with Frank's theory. I too have encountered many errors with dates of birth and immigration. I know I am going way back but I was reading about the many wives of King Henry and the biography states for Anne Bolyn that her date of birth was never recorded when she was born because she was not considered important enough until many years later. I think that partially holds true for our ancestors from 100+ years ago as well as, paper and writing material would probably have been considered a luxury for peasants (like my ancestors). The were not intuned to remembering and documenting like we are today with dates, SS numbers, etc. I have also been told that people lied on the census too for various reasons. Makes the research challenge even more of a challenge!! Just my 2 cents.

Cheryl Moser

To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
From: frank.r.plichta@...
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:11:00 -0500
Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Thanks for all the comments on my question. When I was reading the responses, I got a little sad. These kids didn t get to celebrate their birthdays like we
Message 7 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Thanks for all the comments on my question. When I was reading the responses, I
got a little sad. These kids didn't get to celebrate their birthdays like we do
today. Also, it's amazing that my grandfather knew his birthday; it was exactly
what was in the church record. He must have been small for his age to be listed
as being 4 when he was actually 9.

From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 11:13:26 AM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Nancy et al,
You have to take into account when this was happening, 1800’s. Homes did not
have calendars. So the daily passing of days weren’t followed as we do. The
Liturgical calendar and seasonal celebrations marked the passing of time. When a
child was born the parish and civil registers were the few places the event was
recorded. Unless it was written down at home the precise date could be
forgotten. A second social phenomenon that affects the remembering of a birth
date is the “Name Day”. It was more important to celebrate that than the
birthday. This is still practiced in Slovakia. In the end any date found outside
of the official records is suspect if it doesn’t match. Just be aware that being
precise in the past isn’t as important as it is today.
Michael

From: Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Big Mystery - my father celebrated his birthday Dec. 7 - it was on his mother s passport when he came with his parents as an infant. Couldn t find him in the
Message 8 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Big Mystery - my father celebrated his birthday Dec. 7 - it was on his mother's
passport when he came with his parents as an infant. Couldn't find him in the
archives but a big search found his real birthdate was actually Jan 17, 1910.

Why the discrepancy???? Did an infant have to be a certain age to travel??? They
arrived in Aug 1910 to the Port of Philadephia. This info was on my
grandfather's citizenship or declatation papers.  I was pretty excited when i
found the file at the National Archives in DC - only my family of 3 were not
there - they said sometimes pages of a manifest are lost.

But this birth date thing is a big mystery and driving me crazy til i solve it.
Any one have any ideas?  Was it a Roman numeral mix up?

helene

________________________________
From: Nancy Gibbs <bohnenstiehl1952@...>
To: Slovak Roots Group <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 11:07:56 AM
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• I agree with Frank.  My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent ,
Message 9 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
I agree with Frank.

My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.

I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.

In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it meant nothing to our ancestors.
It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.

To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

Larry ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine s Day? helene ________________________________ From: lkocik@comcast.net To:
Message 10 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

helene

________________________________
From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

I agree with Frank.

My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.

I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.

In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it
meant nothing to our ancestors.

It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.

To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

Larry ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Helene  Thank you...  It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.  It s actually so simple I don t know why I never seen that.  I would think
Message 11 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Helene

Thank you...

It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.

It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.

I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.

I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.

It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.

Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.

Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.

It's not the first time you've done this for me.

Thanks Helene

Larry----- Original Message -----
From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

helene

________________________________
From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

I agree with Frank.

My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.

I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.

In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
consent" and military conscription".  so it's hard for us to understand why it
meant nothing to our ancestors.

It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.

To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

Larry ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago.  Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed.  When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age.  My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint s Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
Message 12 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Helene

Thank you...

It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.

It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.

I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.

I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.

It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.

Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.

Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.

It's not the first time you've done this for me.

Thanks Helene

Larry----- Original Message -----
From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?

helene

________________________________
From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

I agree with Frank.

My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.

I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.

As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.

In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
meant nothing to our ancestors.

It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.

To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."

Larry ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
track of that information.

Frank

_____

From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
To: Slovak Roots Group
Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
age
of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess

sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
Nancy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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• Is there a listing of Saint s Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint s Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
Message 13 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their births.

Sandra
On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

> As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Helene
>
> Thank you...
>
> It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
>
> It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
>
> I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.
>
> I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.
>
> It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.
>
> Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
>
> Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
>
> It's not the first time you've done this for me.
>
> Thanks Helene
>
> Larry----- Original Message -----
> From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
>
> helene
>
> ________________________________
> From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> I agree with Frank.
>
> My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
> documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
>
> I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
>
> As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.
>
> In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
> consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
> meant nothing to our ancestors.
>
> It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
> in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
>
> To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
>
> Larry ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
> Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
> important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
> just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
> compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
> that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
> didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
> track of that information.
>
> Frank
>
> _____
>
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
> To: Slovak Roots Group
> Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
> age
> of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
>
> sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
> been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
> when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
> Nancy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Here is a link: http://calendar.zoznam.sk/nameday-sksxhor.php Ben ... From: Sandra & John Panzitta To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Message 14 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011

http://calendar.zoznam.sk/nameday-sksxhor.php

Ben

----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:17:05 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Is there a listing  of Saint's Name Days?  I would be curious to see how many of
the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
births.

Sandra
On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

> As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day
>was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
>day? That's what people remembered.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of lkocik@...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Helene
>
> Thank you...
>
> It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
>
> It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
>
> I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that
>birth.
>
>
> I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense
>of pride that I was born on his birthday.
>
>
> It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his
>birthday.
>
>
> Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
>
> Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
>
> It's not the first time you've done this for me.
>
> Thanks Helene
>
> Larry----- Original Message -----
> From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
>
> helene
>
> ________________________________
> From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> I agree with Frank.
>
> My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
> documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
>
> I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
>
> As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably
>true.
>
>
> In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of

> consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
> meant nothing to our ancestors.
>
> It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters,
>but
>
> in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
>
> To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
>
> Larry ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
> Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
> important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
> just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
> compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
> that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
> didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
> track of that information.
>
> Frank
>
> _____
>
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
> To: Slovak Roots Group
> Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
> age
> of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
>
> sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
> been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
> when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
> Nancy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
>http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0 -or- send  blank email to

____________________________________________________________________________________
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• Hi Sandra, here is a list of Slovak name days: http://www.slovensko.com/about/calendar Also, if you get bored, I wrote a little blurb about this few months
Message 15 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Hi Sandra, here is a list of Slovak name

back: http://www.slovakcooking.com/2010/blog/name-day/

________________________________
From: Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...>
To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 9:17:05 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question

Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of
the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their
births.

Sandra
On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:

> As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day
>was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name
>day? That's what people remembered.
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of lkocik@...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Helene
>
> Thank you...
>
> It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
>
> It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
>
> I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that
>birth.
>
>
> I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense
>of pride that I was born on his birthday.
>
>
> It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his
>birthday.
>
>
> Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
>
> Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
>
> It's not the first time you've done this for me.
>
> Thanks Helene
>
> Larry----- Original Message -----
> From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
>
> helene
>
> ________________________________
> From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> I agree with Frank.
>
> My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
> documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
>
> I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
>
> As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably
>true.
>
>
> In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of

> consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
> meant nothing to our ancestors.
>
> It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters,
>but
>
> in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
>
> To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
>
> Larry ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
> Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
> important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
> just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
> compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
> that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
> didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
> track of that information.
>
> Frank
>
> _____
>
> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
> To: Slovak Roots Group
> Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
>
> My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
> age
> of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
>
> sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
> been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
> when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
> Nancy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
>http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

To unsubscribe from this group, go to
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to

____________________________________________________________________________________
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See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Sandra, A saint s day is the liturgical calender (Saints Cycle) of the Roman Catholic Church. Every canonized or customary saint is given a festal day of
Message 16 of 16 , Feb 8, 2011
Sandra,
A saint's day is the liturgical calender (Saints Cycle) of the Roman Catholic Church. Every canonized or customary saint is given a festal day of celebration, usually the day of their death, but sometimes another day. The official list is the Roman Martyrology. You can find it online. It varied from place to place over history, or country to country until quite recently. Thus Hungary and Slovakia and Czech Republic and Germany have somewhat different name days, though major ones are the same. Throughout Europe what we call New Year's Eve is usually called Sylvester, because 31 Dec is the liturgical feast day of St. Sylvester.

Since this was such an important church event, no one would have confused a saint day with birthday. Birthday just wasn't important. My grandparents wrote down something different each time they were asked when their birthday was. They just didn't know or care at all. This is just a cultural difference that seems difficult for Americans to grasp. Not a single other document matches their Slovak church birth registers. But my grandfather knew that June 24 was the feast of St. John the Baptist. (His name was John).

Curt B.

--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sandra & John Panzitta <pman40@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a listing of Saint's Name Days? I would be curious to see how many of the Saint's Name Days are close to the dates our ancestors thought were their births.
>
> Sandra
> On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
>
> > As everyone noted, birth days were not important. However your Saint's Name Day was a very big deal. Remember how elders always wished you well on your name day? That's what people remembered.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lkocik@...
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
> >
> > Helene
> >
> > Thank you...
> >
> > It always helps when someone else has an fresh opinion.
> >
> > It's actually so simple I don't know why I never seen that.
> >
> > I would think for the Catholic church baptism is of more significance that birth.
> >
> > I've always loved that I was named for my grandfather and took a strange sense of pride that I was born on his birthday.
> >
> > It was hurtfull in another strange way when I found I wasn't born on his birthday.
> >
> > Now I can grab back onto that feeling of connection with my grandfather.
> >
> > Your response, though simple, was a eureka moment for me.
> >
> > It's not the first time you've done this for me.
> >
> > Thanks Helene
> >
> > Larry----- Original Message -----
> > From: "helene cincebeaux" <helenezx@...>
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 2:49:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
> >
> > Hi Larry - do you supposed he was baptized on Valentine's Day?
> >
> > helene
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:38:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
> >
> > I agree with Frank.
> >
> > My grandfather [Valent] claimed Feb 14 as his birth day on all official
> > documents. I was born on Feb 14 and my middle name is Valent , after him.
> >
> > I found the original church birth record and his birth was Feb 11.
> >
> > As for the fact that age in the old country didn't matter; that's probably true.
> >
> > In our country age matters for voting, drinking, driving, and even "the age of
> > consent" and military conscription". so it's hard for us to understand why it
> > meant nothing to our ancestors.
> >
> > It is the same for how the surname was spelled...in this country it matters, but
> > in the old country if your ancestors were peasant class, it meant nothing.
> >
> > To para quote one of my favorite members..."all opinions are my own."
> >
> > Larry ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@...>
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:11:00 AM
> > Subject: RE: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
> >
> > Birthdays and the number of years that a person was living were not
> > important to the folks 100 years ago. Sometimes they really didn't know and
> > just guessed. When they set sail for America, and the passenger list was
> > compiled at the port of departure in Europe, it may have been the first time
> > that they were ever asked the question as to age. My opinion is that they
> > didn't really know because up to that time they didn't have a reason to keep
> > track of that information.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 AM
> > To: Slovak Roots Group
> > Subject: [S-R] Passenger Lists general question
> >
> > My question is this: Was there any reason for the parent to lie about the
> > age
> > of their children? Or did the person writing down the information just guess
> >
> > sometimes? My grandmother is recorded as being 4 when she really would have
> > been 6; her brother 9 when he was 11. Then my grandfather was recorded as 4
> > when he was 9 and his sister 5 when she was 6. Thanks.
> > Nancy
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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