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Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia

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  • Michael Mojher
    Linda, What specifically are you trying to find? If you are not finding what need online it may be what you are searching for is not their or you are not
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 2, 2011
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      Linda,
      What specifically are you trying to find? If you are not finding what need online it may be what you are searching for is not their or you are not looking in the correct location.
      Here are the Roman Catholic parish information in Caklov and Zamutov. They are served by the same priest – Ivo Jakubik. An e-mail to him may work.
      Dekanát Vranov nad Topľou

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Čaklov
      RKFÚ č. 77
      09435 Telefón: 057/4880235

      E-mail: fara(at)caklov.sk
      WWW: http://www.fara.caklov.sk



      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Titul kostola, kaplnky
      Čaklov Nanebovzatia Panny Márie
      Zámutov Ružencovej Panny Márie



      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      farár Ivo Jakubík best376(at)yahoo.com


      From: lindaminor50
      Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:09 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Records in Slovakia


      Hello Listers, Can anyone tell me if there are birth,death or marriage records for Slovakia (Zamutov,'Caklov) other than the ones that are online at Family Search? Years prior to 1890 in RC,GC or Evangelical.
      Thanks for your help. Linda





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Linda Minor
      Michael,  Thank you for your reply.  I am looking for my ggrandfather, John Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia. I
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 3, 2011
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        Michael,  Thank you for your reply.  I am looking for my ggrandfather, John
        Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia.
        I have assumed that is Caklov----am I wrong??  Also his US census records list
        Austria, Hungary and Slovakia. I have searched all the records and can't find a
        John of that age that lived long enough to immigrate in 1881. One possibility
        was born 1863 in Varanno. Some of the Sol records are in the fold of the book so
        I may be missing them. I will try to email the priest and see if he can help.
        Thanks for the idea.
        Linda




        ________________________________
        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 7:58:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia

         
        Linda,
        What specifically are you trying to find? If you are not finding what need
        online it may be what you are searching for is not their or you are not looking
        in the correct location.

        Here are the Roman Catholic parish information in Caklov and Zamutov. They are
        served by the same priest – Ivo Jakubik. An e-mail to him may work.
        Dekanát Vranov nad Topľou

        ----------------------------------------------------------

        Čaklov
        RKFÚ č. 77
        09435 Telefón: 057/4880235

        E-mail: fara(at)caklov.sk
        WWW: http://www.fara.caklov.sk



        ----------------------------------------------------------

        Titul kostola, kaplnky
        Čaklov Nanebovzatia Panny Márie
        Zámutov Ružencovej Panny Márie



        ----------------------------------------------------------

        farár Ivo Jakubík best376(at)yahoo.com

        From: lindaminor50
        Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:09 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Records in Slovakia

        Hello Listers, Can anyone tell me if there are birth,death or marriage records
        for Slovakia (Zamutov,'Caklov) other than the ones that are online at Family
        Search? Years prior to 1890 in RC,GC or Evangelical.
        Thanks for your help. Linda

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        ... Thanks for the idea.
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 3, 2011
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          >>> Some of the Sol records are in the fold of the book so I may be missing them. I will try to email the priest and see if he can help.
          Thanks for the idea. <<<

          The priest doesn't have "the book". It's in the Presov Archive.
        • John
          ... The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film from LDS and would serve to tell you everyone in the village at that time and their relationship. Csáklyó
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 3, 2011
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            >>> I am looking for my ggrandfather, John Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia. I have assumed that is Caklov----am I wrong?? <<<

            The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film from LDS and would serve to tell you everyone in the village at that time and their relationship.

            Csáklyó (Čaklov) -- Cselej (Čelovce) -- Csernahó (Černochov) -- Csernina (Černina) Film #722684

            Sorry, you can't view it online.

            ps: Czechoslovakia did not exist before 1918.
          • Michael Mojher
            Linda, You are correct that Caklov was Cekl’ov. That was in 1920. In 1861 it was known as Csaklyo and Csaklowce. So you will have to see what year the
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 3, 2011
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              Linda,
              You are correct that Caklov was Cekl’ov. That was in 1920. In 1861 it was known as Csaklyo and Csaklowce. So you will have to see what year the Cekl’ov reference was made.
              I is not unusual to have several country references made in the US Census. Those who identified with being Slovak could choose Slovak or Slovakland. Depending on when they were born it would have been Hungary, pre-1862. In 1862 Hungary was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until 1918. Slovaks during that period often chose to be listed as Austrian rather than Hungarian.
              276 Čaklov VT/PV zemplín.
              1773 Csaklyó, Cžaklow, 1786 Cschaklyo, 1808 Csaklyó, Cžaklowce, 1863, 1877–1913 Csáklyó, 1873 Csáklya, 1920 Čekľov, Čaklov, 1927– Čaklov

              There are three places with the use of Varanno in the name. Only the Vranov nad Topl’ou is in Zemplin County like Caklov. And using that name in 1861. From these findings I think you have narrowed your ancestral villages down.

              2695 Vranov nad Topľou VT/PV zemplín. 1944 pričl. o. Vranovské Dlhé; 1970 pričl. o. Čemerné; 1970–1996 pričl. o. Hencovce.
              1773 Varano, Wranow, 1786 Waranó, Wrano, 1808 Varanó, Varannó, Waranow, Wranow, 1863–1913 Varannó, 1920, 1944–1969 Vranov, 1927–1944, 1969– Vranov nad Topľou [1979– č. o. Vranov]


              From: Linda Minor
              Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 5:26 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia


              Michael, Thank you for your reply. I am looking for my ggrandfather, John
              Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia.
              I have assumed that is Caklov----am I wrong?? Also his US census records list
              Austria, Hungary and Slovakia. I have searched all the records and can't find a
              John of that age that lived long enough to immigrate in 1881. One possibility
              was born 1863 in Varanno. Some of the Sol records are in the fold of the book so
              I may be missing them. I will try to email the priest and see if he can help.
              Thanks for the idea.
              Linda

              ________________________________
              From: Michael Mojher <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net>
              To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 7:58:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia


              Linda,
              What specifically are you trying to find? If you are not finding what need
              online it may be what you are searching for is not their or you are not looking
              in the correct location.

              Here are the Roman Catholic parish information in Caklov and Zamutov. They are
              served by the same priest – Ivo Jakubik. An e-mail to him may work.
              Dekanát Vranov nad Topľou

              ----------------------------------------------------------

              Čaklov
              RKFÚ č. 77
              09435 Telefón: 057/4880235

              E-mail: fara(at)caklov.sk
              WWW: http://www.fara.caklov.sk

              ----------------------------------------------------------

              Titul kostola, kaplnky
              Čaklov Nanebovzatia Panny Márie
              Zámutov Ružencovej Panny Márie

              ----------------------------------------------------------

              farár Ivo Jakubík best376(at)yahoo.com

              From: lindaminor50
              Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:09 PM
              To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Records in Slovakia

              Hello Listers, Can anyone tell me if there are birth,death or marriage records
              for Slovakia (Zamutov,'Caklov) other than the ones that are online at Family
              Search? Years prior to 1890 in RC,GC or Evangelical.
              Thanks for your help. Linda

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John
              ... I amy have found the marriage of John Miklos parents. The marriage is in the brides parish but the children are in the GROOM S parish. Note that the
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 3, 2011
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                >>> I am looking for my ggrandfather, John Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia. I have assumed that is Caklov----am I wrong?? <<<

                I amy have found the marriage of John Miklos' parents. The marriage is in the brides parish but the children are in the GROOM'S parish. Note that the groom is GC while the bride is RC.

                Sol RC Chruch Records
                Inv. č. 1133
                Manželstvá 1843-1909
                Page 16/129
                22 May 1856
                Groom: Michael Miklos, 25 GC, Agyagos #77 (now Hlinne)
                Bride: Elizabetha Pizsont, 19, RC, Agyagos #13

                Cisarik lists both Miklos and Pizsont surnames in Hlinne.

                GC Agyagos Film #311
                They had children in the GC church records as follows:
                Page 10/128 Maria born 21 Aug 1858
                Page 16/128 Anna born 12 Oct 1860
                Page 23/128 Elizabetha 9 May 1863
                Page 28/128 Joannes 19 Aug 1865
                . . . at which point I stopped looking. It would seem that we have found what you are looking for. House is #76. 1869 Hungarian Census film #722668.
              • Linda Minor
                John, I appreciate your efforts to help me.  Unfortunately, this Joannes died in 1880 so that family is not a possibility for me. Thanks,  Linda
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 6, 2011
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                  John, I appreciate your efforts to help me.  Unfortunately, this Joannes died in
                  1880 so that family is not a possibility for me.
                  Thanks, 
                  Linda




                  ________________________________
                  From: John <johnqadam@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 9:34:12 PM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia

                   
                  >>> I am looking for my ggrandfather, John Miklos(Micklos) who per his obit was
                  >>>born June 1861 In Cheklov, Czechoslovakia. I have assumed that is Caklov----am I
                  >>>wrong?? <<<

                  I amy have found the marriage of John Miklos' parents. The marriage is in the
                  brides parish but the children are in the GROOM'S parish. Note that the groom is
                  GC while the bride is RC.

                  Sol RC Chruch Records
                  Inv. č. 1133
                  Manželstvá 1843-1909
                  Page 16/129
                  22 May 1856
                  Groom: Michael Miklos, 25 GC, Agyagos #77 (now Hlinne)
                  Bride: Elizabetha Pizsont, 19, RC, Agyagos #13

                  Cisarik lists both Miklos and Pizsont surnames in Hlinne.

                  GC Agyagos Film #311
                  They had children in the GC church records as follows:
                  Page 10/128 Maria born 21 Aug 1858
                  Page 16/128 Anna born 12 Oct 1860
                  Page 23/128 Elizabetha 9 May 1863
                  Page 28/128 Joannes 19 Aug 1865
                  . . . at which point I stopped looking. It would seem that we have found what
                  you are looking for. House is #76. 1869 Hungarian Census film #722668.







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John
                  ... Sorry that the GC church to the north did not work out. Working on the GC parish to the south, Cemerne, we have the following possibility. Greek Catholic
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 6, 2011
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                    >>> John, I appreciate your efforts to help me.  Unfortunately, this Joannes died in 1880 so that family is not a possibility for me. <<<

                    Sorry that the GC church to the north did not work out.

                    Working on the GC parish to the south, Cemerne, we have the following possibility.

                    Greek Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Čemerné, Slovakia, formerly Csemernye, Zemplén, Hungary (also called Varannó-Csemernye).

                    Inv. č. 160
                    Krsty 1831-1863
                    Manželstvá 1831-1862
                    Úmrtia 1832-1860

                    Inv. č. 161
                    Krsty 1875-1891

                    Inv. č. 161 (pokrač.)
                    Krsty 1891-1894

                    Inv. č. 162
                    Krsty 1864-1874
                    Manželstvá 1862-1891
                    Úmrtia 1861-1895

                    Inv. č. 163
                    Krsty 1895
                    Manželstvá 1892-1895

                    Research film GC Cemerne film #160
                    Page 106/157 the marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                    Page 66/157 B Maria 5 Nov 1861, Varano 66
                    Page 72/157 B Joannes 27 Apr 1863, Varano 53

                    Perhaps another tangent but worth a look.
                  • John
                    Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference? Research film GC Cemerne film #160, Page 106/157 marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 12, 2011
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                      Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?

                      Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                      Page 106/157
                      marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                    • CurtB
                      He is a soldier on leave. Curt B.
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 12, 2011
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                        He is a soldier on leave.

                        Curt B.

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                        >
                        > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                        > Page 106/157
                        > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                        >
                      • Carl
                        Curt, What is the word in front of miles (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record. I also noticed
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                          Curt,
                          What is the word in front of "miles" (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record.

                          I also noticed that the man was a "arcularius" which is a maker of small chests, boxes or caskets.

                          CK

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                          >
                          > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                          > Page 106/157
                          > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                          >
                        • Carl
                          John, I m not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                            John,
                            I'm not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records for the ancestor, Joannes Mikloss. His marriage records confirm that he was in the army. I have only had one of my ancestor's church records indicate he was in the army. In all the other cases, I made a guess based on their age when they got married.

                            Anyway, Joannes would most likely would have been in the infantry and in line infantry regiment #34. This is the regiment that recruited in Zemplen in the 1850s. By coincidence, I have been studying this regiment myself. In 1860 to 1866, IR34 changed recruiting districts and recruited in Gomor County which is where my paternal family lived. My great-grandfather was conscripted in 1864 into IR34 during the war with Denmark. He then served in the 1866 war with Prussia (The Seven Weeks War). I have been writing up the exploits of his regiment in these two wars. There is an incredible amount of information out there on this regiment including a detailed regimental history that covers the years of 1733-1900 (860 pages in length) and it is available on-line from Google Books. In 1859, Austria fought a war in northern Italy and Joannes would probably served in this war. The regimental history covers this war in detail. So, you can follow exactly what Joannes' regiment did and what the battles were like that they participated in.

                            The first thing to do is to find Joannes' personnel records. These are located in books called Grundbuchblatter. The grundbuch records for this period are located in the Kriegs archive in Vienna but the LDS has filmed all of them. Therefore, you can find the grundbuch records for IR34 in their catalog. In the military records section of Bill Tarkulich's website, you will find a guide that will explain how to research these records. Here is a link to that information:

                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html

                            Janos was 26.5 years old in Nov. of 1860. So, he would have been born around 1833. He would have likely been conscripted between 1853 and 1856. At that time, men had an 8 year obligation in the army followed by service in the reserves. Men typically served 1-3 years actively and were then furloughed to their homes for the remainder of their active duty (unless there was a war). Men were not paid while they were on furlough so this was a way for the Army to save money but still have trained soldiers available. Janos would have been called back up in 1859, if he was on furlough, to serve in Italy. After the war, he was obviously back home where he got married. Pretty interesting stuff.

                            Let me know if you are interested in pursuing finding Janos' military records and I can give you some tips on where to look. If you do find his grundbuch records, make sure you try to ascertain which battlion and company he was in (I can explain to you how to do this). With this information, you can see specifically what he did in the war because the regimental history breaks things down to that level.

                            Here is the reference to IR34's regimental history:

                            KREIPNER, JULIUS: History of the Imperial and Royal Infantry Regiment No. 34 for ever-lasting periods Wilhelm I, German Emperor and King of Prussia: 1733 - 1900. Košice: 1900.

                            and here is the Google link:
                            http://books.google.com/books?id=UyEoAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=KREIPNER,+JULIUS:+Geschichte+des+k.+und+k.+Infanterie-Regimentes+Nr.+34&hl=en&ei=c6ATTbzDIML88AbL5KzCDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

                            There are two more regimental histories on IR34 that cover your timeframe but they are not available from Google books.

                            · Josef MULLER: The 34th kk Austrian Line Infantry Regiment, King William I of Prussia in the campaigns of 1859 and 1864. Tetschen: 1865th
                            · Gustav WUST: History of the 34th kk Linin Infantry Regiment Prince Regent of Prussia. Vienna in 1860.

                            In addition, there are many books on the Italian War in 1859.

                            By the way, all regiments had an honorary owner called an "inhaber" for which they took their name. IR34's inhaber was Wilhelm, the King of Prussia.
                            good luck in your research,
                            Carl


                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                            >
                            > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                            > Page 106/157
                            > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                            >
                          • John
                            ... Carl, this string is being reserached by Linda Minor and I am sure that your advice will be gratefully received. Linda has yet to confirm Jan Miklos (var
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                              >>> I'm not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records for the ancestor, Joannes Mikloss. His marriage records confirm that he was in the army. <<<

                              Carl, this string is being reserached by Linda Minor and I am sure that your advice will be gratefully received. Linda has yet to confirm Jan Miklos (var sp) and the one mentioned above is our latest shot at pinning him down.

                              My ADAM clan is from Dubravka and I found nothing of value in the minimal military records that I reviewed at LDS. Perhaps I missed some.
                            • CurtB
                              OK, wait a minute. I am not sure we are all looking at the same record. The original citation may not be accurate as to page, marriage, and persons. I don t
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                                OK, wait a minute. I am not sure we are all looking at the same record. The original citation may not be accurate as to page, marriage, and persons. I don't see an arcularius anywhere.

                                Please give a full careful citation. Madyar or Slovak town name, etc. I found the wife's name but not the arcularius stuff.

                                Curt B.

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Curt,
                                > What is the word in front of "miles" (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record.
                                >
                                > I also noticed that the man was a "arcularius" which is a maker of small chests, boxes or caskets.
                                >
                                > CK
                                >
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                > >
                                > > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                > > Page 106/157
                                > > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                > >
                                >
                              • John
                                The citation that I gave earlier is correct. Marriage is at bottom of right hand page. John
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                                  The citation that I gave earlier is correct. Marriage is at bottom of right hand page.

                                  John

                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > OK, wait a minute. I am not sure we are all looking at the same record. The original citation may not be accurate as to page, marriage, and persons. I don't see an arcularius anywhere.
                                  >
                                  > Please give a full careful citation. Madyar or Slovak town name, etc. I found the wife's name but not the arcularius stuff.
                                  >
                                  > Curt B.
                                  >
                                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Curt,
                                  > > What is the word in front of "miles" (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record.
                                  > >
                                  > > I also noticed that the man was a "arcularius" which is a maker of small chests, boxes or caskets.
                                  > >
                                  > > CK
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                  > > > Page 106/157
                                  > > > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • CurtB
                                  OK, I am not lost. The latin says ab licentiatus milites a very late latin usage. It is a past participle meaning licenced or permitted. A solder permitted
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 13, 2011
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                                    OK, I am not lost.
                                    The latin says "ab licentiatus milites" a very late latin usage. It is a past participle meaning licenced or permitted. A solder permitted [by the military] to get married. He had to have a signed military paper permitting this marriage, so he was at a stage of his service that allowed this, and is obviously now on leave to actually get married. Note in this section of the register that the priest is particularly proud of his latin composition and seems to enjoy composing ecclesiastical or late latin.
                                    Curt B.

                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The citation that I gave earlier is correct. Marriage is at bottom of right hand page.
                                    >
                                    > John
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > OK, wait a minute. I am not sure we are all looking at the same record. The original citation may not be accurate as to page, marriage, and persons. I don't see an arcularius anywhere.
                                    > >
                                    > > Please give a full careful citation. Madyar or Slovak town name, etc. I found the wife's name but not the arcularius stuff.
                                    > >
                                    > > Curt B.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Curt,
                                    > > > What is the word in front of "miles" (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I also noticed that the man was a "arcularius" which is a maker of small chests, boxes or caskets.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > CK
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                    > > > > Page 106/157
                                    > > > > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • christine mackara
                                    Hi Curt B., Thank you Curt for your translation/explanation of ablicentiatus miles I was just reading the answer to something John wrote and it applies to a
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 14, 2011
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                                      Hi Curt B.,

                                      Thank you Curt for your translation/explanation of " ablicentiatus miles'
                                      I was just reading the answer to something John wrote and it applies to a marriage in 1861 in Presov for a Makara cousin in my husbands family tree. He was also a "murar sodalis" bricklayer. All this ads flavor to a story.
                                      Thanks again, Christine





                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: CurtB
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 11:31 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Records in Slovakia



                                      OK, I am not lost.
                                      The latin says "ab licentiatus milites" a very late latin usage. It is a past participle meaning licenced or permitted. A solder permitted [by the military] to get married. He had to have a signed military paper permitting this marriage, so he was at a stage of his service that allowed this, and is obviously now on leave to actually get married. Note in this section of the register that the priest is particularly proud of his latin composition and seems to enjoy composing ecclesiastical or late latin.
                                      Curt B.




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Carl
                                      Thanks Curt. That makes more sense. The man was 26.5 years old so he was born in 1833. He likely was conscipted around 1853 and after serving though the 50s
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 14, 2011
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                                        Thanks Curt. That makes more sense. The man was 26.5 years old so he was born in 1833. He likely was conscipted around 1853 and after serving though the 50s and in the 1859 war in Italy, he would have been eligible to go into the reserves and permitted to be married. By the way, the "arcularius" notation is directly below his name in the marriage document. His wife is listed as an orphan.
                                        CK

                                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > OK, I am not lost.
                                        > The latin says "ab licentiatus milites" a very late latin usage. It is a past participle meaning licenced or permitted. A solder permitted [by the military] to get married. He had to have a signed military paper permitting this marriage, so he was at a stage of his service that allowed this, and is obviously now on leave to actually get married. Note in this section of the register that the priest is particularly proud of his latin composition and seems to enjoy composing ecclesiastical or late latin.
                                        > Curt B.
                                        >
                                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > The citation that I gave earlier is correct. Marriage is at bottom of right hand page.
                                        > >
                                        > > John
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > OK, wait a minute. I am not sure we are all looking at the same record. The original citation may not be accurate as to page, marriage, and persons. I don't see an arcularius anywhere.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Please give a full careful citation. Madyar or Slovak town name, etc. I found the wife's name but not the arcularius stuff.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Curt B.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Curt,
                                        > > > > What is the word in front of "miles" (soldier)? The Latin word for furlough is commeatus but I cannot make out the word in this record.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I also noticed that the man was a "arcularius" which is a maker of small chests, boxes or caskets.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > CK
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                        > > > > > Page 106/157
                                        > > > > > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Linda Minor
                                        Hi John,  I haven t checked my mail in a few days and now find you have posted the translation for me. Thank you. This is the only email I have for you so
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 16, 2011
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                                          Hi John,  I haven't checked my mail in a few days and now find you have posted
                                          the translation for me. Thank you. This is the only email I have for you so hope
                                          you get it. From what I can gather, Joannes was a maker of "small boxes" and was
                                          in the military? And his marriage record says he was home on leave? Very
                                          interesting.  This Miklos seems to be the best choice for my realative so I will
                                          definitely hold on to the information until I can somehow confirm. Thanks again
                                          for your help.
                                          Linda




                                          ________________________________
                                          From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 11:02:55 AM
                                          Subject: [S-R] Re: Records in Slovakia

                                           
                                          >>> I'm not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping
                                          >>>someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records for
                                          >>>the ancestor, Joannes Mikloss. His marriage records confirm that he was in the
                                          >>>army. <<<

                                          Carl, this string is being reserached by Linda Minor and I am sure that your
                                          advice will be gratefully received. Linda has yet to confirm Jan Miklos (var sp)
                                          and the one mentioned above is our latest shot at pinning him down.

                                          My ADAM clan is from Dubravka and I found nothing of value in the minimal
                                          military records that I reviewed at LDS. Perhaps I missed some.







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Linda Minor
                                          Hello Carl,  I am Linda, the one who is researching Joannes Miklos.  I appreciate all of your input. It is very interesting. To better understand this---He
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Feb 16, 2011
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                                            Hello Carl,  I am Linda, the one who is researching Joannes Miklos.  I
                                            appreciate all of your input. It is very interesting. To better understand
                                            this---He was in the military and married when he was home on leave or was he at
                                            that point discharged? You mentioned serving in the war in 1859.  Would he have
                                            been back home in 1860 to get married?  I realize I will need to look at the
                                            records to verify all of this which I will do when I know for sure that he was
                                            my realative. I have to check the Hungarian census to see if at some point he
                                            lived in Caklov. Thank you so much for the information and the resources.

                                            Linda




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Carl <kotlarchik@...>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 10:45:39 AM
                                            Subject: [S-R] Re: Records in Slovakia

                                             
                                            John,
                                            I'm not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping
                                            someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records for
                                            the ancestor, Joannes Mikloss. His marriage records confirm that he was in the
                                            army. I have only had one of my ancestor's church records indicate he was in the
                                            army. In all the other cases, I made a guess based on their age when they got
                                            married.


                                            Anyway, Joannes would most likely would have been in the infantry and in line
                                            infantry regiment #34. This is the regiment that recruited in Zemplen in the
                                            1850s. By coincidence, I have been studying this regiment myself. In 1860 to
                                            1866, IR34 changed recruiting districts and recruited in Gomor County which is
                                            where my paternal family lived. My great-grandfather was conscripted in 1864
                                            into IR34 during the war with Denmark. He then served in the 1866 war with
                                            Prussia (The Seven Weeks War). I have been writing up the exploits of his
                                            regiment in these two wars. There is an incredible amount of information out
                                            there on this regiment including a detailed regimental history that covers the
                                            years of 1733-1900 (860 pages in length) and it is available on-line from Google
                                            Books. In 1859, Austria fought a war in northern Italy and Joannes would
                                            probably served in this war. The regimental history covers this war in detail.
                                            So, you can follow exactly what Joannes' regiment did and what the battles were
                                            like that they participated in.


                                            The first thing to do is to find Joannes' personnel records. These are located
                                            in books called Grundbuchblatter. The grundbuch records for this period are
                                            located in the Kriegs archive in Vienna but the LDS has filmed all of them.
                                            Therefore, you can find the grundbuch records for IR34 in their catalog. In the
                                            military records section of Bill Tarkulich's website, you will find a guide that
                                            will explain how to research these records. Here is a link to that information:

                                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html

                                            Janos was 26.5 years old in Nov. of 1860. So, he would have been born around
                                            1833. He would have likely been conscripted between 1853 and 1856. At that time,
                                            men had an 8 year obligation in the army followed by service in the reserves.
                                            Men typically served 1-3 years actively and were then furloughed to their homes
                                            for the remainder of their active duty (unless there was a war). Men were not
                                            paid while they were on furlough so this was a way for the Army to save money
                                            but still have trained soldiers available. Janos would have been called back up
                                            in 1859, if he was on furlough, to serve in Italy. After the war, he was
                                            obviously back home where he got married. Pretty interesting stuff.

                                            Let me know if you are interested in pursuing finding Janos' military records
                                            and I can give you some tips on where to look. If you do find his grundbuch
                                            records, make sure you try to ascertain which battlion and company he was in (I
                                            can explain to you how to do this). With this information, you can see
                                            specifically what he did in the war because the regimental history breaks things
                                            down to that level.


                                            Here is the reference to IR34's regimental history:

                                            KREIPNER, JULIUS: History of the Imperial and Royal Infantry Regiment No. 34 for
                                            ever-lasting periods Wilhelm I, German Emperor and King of Prussia: 1733 - 1900.
                                            Košice: 1900.

                                            and here is the Google link:
                                            http://books.google.com/books?id=UyEoAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=KREIPNER,+JULIUS:+Geschichte+des+k.+und+k.+Infanterie-Regimentes+Nr.+34&hl=en&ei=c6ATTbzDIML88AbL5KzCDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


                                            There are two more regimental histories on IR34 that cover your timeframe but
                                            they are not available from Google books.

                                            · Josef MULLER: The 34th kk Austrian Line Infantry Regiment, King William I of
                                            Prussia in the campaigns of 1859 and 1864. Tetschen: 1865th

                                            · Gustav WUST: History of the 34th kk Linin Infantry Regiment Prince Regent of
                                            Prussia. Vienna in 1860.

                                            In addition, there are many books on the Italian War in 1859.

                                            By the way, all regiments had an honorary owner called an "inhaber" for which
                                            they took their name. IR34's inhaber was Wilhelm, the King of Prussia.

                                            good luck in your research,
                                            Carl

                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                            >
                                            > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                            > Page 106/157
                                            > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                            >







                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Carl
                                            Hi Linda, Hard to tell if he was on furlough or was about to be transferred into the reserves. In the 1850s, men had an active duty obligation of about 8
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Feb 17, 2011
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                                              Hi Linda,
                                              Hard to tell if he was on furlough or was about to be transferred into the reserves. In the 1850s, men had an active duty obligation of about 8 years followed by several years in the reserves. Men usually only spent 1-3 years on active duty and then were furloughed to their homes for the remainder of their active duty obligation (unless there was a war going on). Given that Janos was born in 1833, he would have been conscripted around 1853. So in 1860, he would have been close to being moved into the reserves depending on when he actually began his service. I think it is likely he would have served in the war in Italy in 1859 and then released in 1860. If you search for his records, look for the film that shows men with birth years around 1833. You should be able to find it in films covering the mid 1850s. Unfortunately, the FHC has not done a good job of indexing the films. So, you may have to check a couple films in that time frame to find the one listing 1833 births. Grundbuchs vary a bit in how they are organized. Each battalion in the regiment is listed separately and then broken down further by companies (6 companies in each of 4 battalions). Usually, (but not always) the officers are listed first for each unit, then cadets and finally the enlisted men. The enlisted men will have common birth years but of course the officers will not. When you find Janos' record, go back and record the information on the officers for his battalion and for his company. Note that the battalions may not be listed by a number but by a title. I know this may sound complicated but it really isn't.
                                              Regimental histories describe the events each field battalion participated in. Field battalions sometimes operated separately and at other times they fought together. There were 3 field battalions and 1 smaller home depot battalion in each regiment. Well, that's probably more than you wanted to know at this point. Contact me if you decide to pursue this search and if you do find Janos' record. I can then point you to the other available information.
                                              Carl


                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Linda Minor <lindaminor50@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hello Carl,  I am Linda, the one who is researching Joannes Miklos.  I
                                              > appreciate all of your input. It is very interesting. To better understand
                                              > this---He was in the military and married when he was home on leave or was he at
                                              > that point discharged? You mentioned serving in the war in 1859.  Would he have
                                              > been back home in 1860 to get married?  I realize I will need to look at the
                                              > records to verify all of this which I will do when I know for sure that he was
                                              > my realative. I have to check the Hungarian census to see if at some point he
                                              > lived in Caklov. Thank you so much for the information and the resources.
                                              >
                                              > Linda
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: Carl <kotlarchik@...>
                                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 10:45:39 AM
                                              > Subject: [S-R] Re: Records in Slovakia
                                              >
                                              >  
                                              > John,
                                              > I'm not sure if you are researching your own family in Csemernye or helping
                                              > someone else. But this is a perfect situation to find the military records for
                                              > the ancestor, Joannes Mikloss. His marriage records confirm that he was in the
                                              > army. I have only had one of my ancestor's church records indicate he was in the
                                              > army. In all the other cases, I made a guess based on their age when they got
                                              > married.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Anyway, Joannes would most likely would have been in the infantry and in line
                                              > infantry regiment #34. This is the regiment that recruited in Zemplen in the
                                              > 1850s. By coincidence, I have been studying this regiment myself. In 1860 to
                                              > 1866, IR34 changed recruiting districts and recruited in Gomor County which is
                                              > where my paternal family lived. My great-grandfather was conscripted in 1864
                                              > into IR34 during the war with Denmark. He then served in the 1866 war with
                                              > Prussia (The Seven Weeks War). I have been writing up the exploits of his
                                              > regiment in these two wars. There is an incredible amount of information out
                                              > there on this regiment including a detailed regimental history that covers the
                                              > years of 1733-1900 (860 pages in length) and it is available on-line from Google
                                              > Books. In 1859, Austria fought a war in northern Italy and Joannes would
                                              > probably served in this war. The regimental history covers this war in detail.
                                              > So, you can follow exactly what Joannes' regiment did and what the battles were
                                              > like that they participated in.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > The first thing to do is to find Joannes' personnel records. These are located
                                              > in books called Grundbuchblatter. The grundbuch records for this period are
                                              > located in the Kriegs archive in Vienna but the LDS has filmed all of them.
                                              > Therefore, you can find the grundbuch records for IR34 in their catalog. In the
                                              > military records section of Bill Tarkulich's website, you will find a guide that
                                              > will explain how to research these records. Here is a link to that information:
                                              >
                                              > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                                              >
                                              > Janos was 26.5 years old in Nov. of 1860. So, he would have been born around
                                              > 1833. He would have likely been conscripted between 1853 and 1856. At that time,
                                              > men had an 8 year obligation in the army followed by service in the reserves.
                                              > Men typically served 1-3 years actively and were then furloughed to their homes
                                              > for the remainder of their active duty (unless there was a war). Men were not
                                              > paid while they were on furlough so this was a way for the Army to save money
                                              > but still have trained soldiers available. Janos would have been called back up
                                              > in 1859, if he was on furlough, to serve in Italy. After the war, he was
                                              > obviously back home where he got married. Pretty interesting stuff.
                                              >
                                              > Let me know if you are interested in pursuing finding Janos' military records
                                              > and I can give you some tips on where to look. If you do find his grundbuch
                                              > records, make sure you try to ascertain which battlion and company he was in (I
                                              > can explain to you how to do this). With this information, you can see
                                              > specifically what he did in the war because the regimental history breaks things
                                              > down to that level.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Here is the reference to IR34's regimental history:
                                              >
                                              > KREIPNER, JULIUS: History of the Imperial and Royal Infantry Regiment No. 34 for
                                              > ever-lasting periods Wilhelm I, German Emperor and King of Prussia: 1733 - 1900.
                                              > Košice: 1900.
                                              >
                                              > and here is the Google link:
                                              > http://books.google.com/books?id=UyEoAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=KREIPNER,+JULIUS:+Geschichte+des+k.+und+k.+Infanterie-Regimentes+Nr.+34&hl=en&ei=c6ATTbzDIML88AbL5KzCDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > There are two more regimental histories on IR34 that cover your timeframe but
                                              > they are not available from Google books.
                                              >
                                              > · Josef MULLER: The 34th kk Austrian Line Infantry Regiment, King William I of
                                              > Prussia in the campaigns of 1859 and 1864. Tetschen: 1865th
                                              >
                                              > · Gustav WUST: History of the 34th kk Linin Infantry Regiment Prince Regent of
                                              > Prussia. Vienna in 1860.
                                              >
                                              > In addition, there are many books on the Italian War in 1859.
                                              >
                                              > By the way, all regiments had an honorary owner called an "inhaber" for which
                                              > they took their name. IR34's inhaber was Wilhelm, the King of Prussia.
                                              >
                                              > good luck in your research,
                                              > Carl
                                              >
                                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Can anyone translate the comments in the following reference?
                                              > >
                                              > > Research film GC Cemerne film #160,
                                              > > Page 106/157
                                              > > marriage of Joannes Mikloss to Maria Tirpak.
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
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