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Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

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  • Ladislav Rosival
    Hi, some remarks to the Olle Family, years and so The Hungerian text in the book of Nagy Iván: Ollé család. (Ollé-tejedi.) Pozsony vármegyei régi nemes
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 28, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      some remarks to the Olle Family, years and so

      The Hungerian text in the book of Nagy Iván:
      Ollé család. (Ollé-tejedi.)
      Pozsony vármegyei régi nemes család, Csallóközben Ollé-Tejed helységben már a XIII. században 1273-ban birtokos. Nevezett helység hajdán – még a XV. században is Csat-Téjednek iratott, innen irták előnevüket 1422-ben Bálint Jánosnak fia, Ulrik Péternek fia, György Adorjánnak fia, és Illés Péternek fia, mindnyájan nobiles de Csat-Tejed, kik úgy látszik – az irt évben csat-tejedi birtokukat négy részre osztották föl.* Ezen ősöknek ivadékai a XVII. század elején már Ollé-tejedi előnévvel éltek; igy élt 1620-ban névszerint Ollé Péter, kitől a származás* következő renddel történt:


      The translation via googletranslete is not very good - I dont understand it - so my attempt to translate it

      Family Olle de Ollé-tejed
      old noble family of Pozsony county, they were landowners already in XII-th century in 1273 in the village Ollé Tejed in Csallóköz.

      They wrote their name according to the village Csat-Téjed.

      In 1422 Bálint son of János, Ulrik son of Péter, György son of Adorján and Illés son of Péter all of them nobiles de Csat-Tejed - it looks like they divided their possesion into four parts.

      Descendants of these ancestors on the begining of the XVII-th century used the name Ollé de Ollé-Tejed. In 1620 lived Ollé Peter, from this person goes the family on.


      Pozsony - is todays Bratislava
      Csalóköz is Žitný ostrov river island between Bratislava and Komárno ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%c5%bditn%c3%bd_ostrov )

      So the not very good translation, but I hope you will understand.

      My considerations:

      - the year 1273 will be the date of the oldest document, where the name of the village occurs. Thera a lot of villages which are first mentioned in the second half of XII-th century - its the time after the Mongolian invasion, when great parts of Kingdom of hungary were destroyed and the population decimed. (see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%c3%a9la_IV_of_Hungary )
      After this Invasion the King Belo IV, invited people from Germany to come to Hungary - most of them went to Spis-County. Also he supported formation of cities. And he made a lot of donatios of land to his soldiers.
      On the home page of Dunajská streda (Mliečany is now a part of it) states: "Prvá písomná správa o mestskej časti Dunajskej Stredy EIőtejed v podobe Eleuteied je z r. 1280" First written record of Előtejed is from the year 1280 in form Eleuteied).


      - it seems in 1422 they were at least 3 or 4 families with the same name in this village

      - it will be pretty hard to find names of the persons which lived in Olle-tejed before 1620 and to find some connections.



      Ladislav





      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Milan Olle
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 6:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY



      Thank You Everyone!

      You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.

      You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!
      Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!

      How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?

      I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.

      The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?

      I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.

      Now I need proof of the real storie!

      Milan

      --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...> wrote:

      From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM



      Hi,

      To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.

      There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.
      You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.

      The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.

      This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)
      http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ

      on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.

      There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.

      Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)

      In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility

      Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.
      Munhard, l. Mumhard.
      Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)
      Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.
      Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.
      Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.
      Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.
      Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)
      Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.
      295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)
      Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).

      Ladislav

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: An American Hare
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

      Milan,

      To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/

      I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.

      LLeporis

      PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...

      Dear Sir. The prices:

      SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR
      Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR
      Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR
      Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR
      Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR

      Posting: 20 EUR
      VAT: 0 EUR (USA)
      TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)

      The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:
      Bank: OTP Bank Hungary
      Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
      IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000
      If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately

      Sandor BISZAK
      ARCANUM, Hungary

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sedlak93
      To Ladislav: The Armales I have was awarded to Stephane (Stephanos) Munkachy in 1647 in Bratislava. The record is on file in the Presov Archives. The date on
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 28, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        To Ladislav:
        The Armales I have was awarded to Stephane (Stephanos) Munkachy
        in 1647 in Bratislava. The record is on file in the Presov Archives.
        The date on the document is 1648.
        I have researched nobility publications (Nagy, Kempelen,
        Siebmacher, etc.) They do not mention this Armales.
        I would like to locate where Munkachy lived,born etc.
        Do you have any leads for where to search?

        Lou


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > some remarks to the Olle Family, years and so
        >
        > The Hungerian text in the book of Nagy Iván:
        > Ollé család. (Ollé-tejedi.)
        > Pozsony vármegyei régi nemes család, Csallóközben Ollé-Tejed helységben már a XIII. században 1273-ban birtokos. Nevezett helység hajdán â€" még a XV. században is Csat-Téjednek iratott, innen irták elÅ`nevüket 1422-ben Bálint Jánosnak fia, Ulrik Péternek fia, György Adorjánnak fia, és Illés Péternek fia, mindnyájan nobiles de Csat-Tejed, kik úgy látszik â€" az irt évben csat-tejedi birtokukat négy részre osztották föl.* Ezen Å`söknek ivadékai a XVII. század elején már Ollé-tejedi elÅ`névvel éltek; igy élt 1620-ban névszerint Ollé Péter, kitÅ`l a származás* következÅ` renddel történt:
        >
        >
        > The translation via googletranslete is not very good - I dont understand it - so my attempt to translate it
        >
        > Family Olle de Ollé-tejed
        > old noble family of Pozsony county, they were landowners already in XII-th century in 1273 in the village Ollé Tejed in Csallóköz.
        >
        > They wrote their name according to the village Csat-Téjed.
        >
        > In 1422 Bálint son of János, Ulrik son of Péter, György son of Adorján and Illés son of Péter all of them nobiles de Csat-Tejed - it looks like they divided their possesion into four parts.
        >
        > Descendants of these ancestors on the begining of the XVII-th century used the name Ollé de Ollé-Tejed. In 1620 lived Ollé Peter, from this person goes the family on.
        >
        >
        > Pozsony - is todays Bratislava
        > Csalóköz is Žitný ostrov river island between Bratislava and Komárno ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%c3%85%c2%bditn%c3%83%c2%bd_ostrov )
        >
        > So the not very good translation, but I hope you will understand.
        >
        > My considerations:
        >
        > - the year 1273 will be the date of the oldest document, where the name of the village occurs. Thera a lot of villages which are first mentioned in the second half of XII-th century - its the time after the Mongolian invasion, when great parts of Kingdom of hungary were destroyed and the population decimed. (see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%c3%83%c2%a9la_IV_of_Hungary )
        > After this Invasion the King Belo IV, invited people from Germany to come to Hungary - most of them went to Spis-County. Also he supported formation of cities. And he made a lot of donatios of land to his soldiers.
        > On the home page of Dunajská streda (Mliečany is now a part of it) states: "Prvá písomná správa o mestskej časti Dunajskej Stredy EIÅ`tejed v podobe Eleuteied je z r. 1280" First written record of ElÅ`tejed is from the year 1280 in form Eleuteied).
        >
        >
        > - it seems in 1422 they were at least 3 or 4 families with the same name in this village
        >
        > - it will be pretty hard to find names of the persons which lived in Olle-tejed before 1620 and to find some connections.
        >
        >
        >
        > Ladislav
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Milan Olle
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 6:53 PM
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank You Everyone!
        >
        > You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.
        >
        > You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!
        > Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!
        >
        > How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?
        >
        > I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.
        >
        > The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?
        >
        > I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.
        >
        > Now I need proof of the real storie!
        >
        > Milan
        >
        > --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.
        >
        > There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.
        > You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.
        >
        > The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.
        >
        > This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)
        > http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ
        >
        > on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.
        >
        > There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.
        >
        > Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)
        >
        > In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility
        >
        > Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.
        > Munhard, l. Mumhard.
        > Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)
        > Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.
        > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.
        > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.
        > Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.
        > Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)
        > Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.
        > 295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)
        > Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).
        >
        > Ladislav
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: An American Hare
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
        >
        > Milan,
        >
        > To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/
        >
        > I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.
        >
        > LLeporis
        >
        > PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...
        >
        > Dear Sir. The prices:
        >
        > SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR
        > Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR
        > Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR
        > Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR
        > Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR
        >
        > Posting: 20 EUR
        > VAT: 0 EUR (USA)
        > TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)
        >
        > The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:
        > Bank: OTP Bank Hungary
        > Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
        > IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000
        > If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately
        >
        > Sandor BISZAK
        > ARCANUM, Hungary
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Sandra & John Panzitta
        Carolyn and Mike, Thanks so much for looking that up for me! Sandra ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 28, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Carolyn and Mike,

          Thanks so much for looking that up for me!

          Sandra
          On Dec 28, 2010, at 1:06 PM, Michael Mojher wrote:

          > Sandra,
          > The online records for Greek Catholic parishes list two near Brezovica. Torysa, 2.5 km away, had Greek Catholic records from 1730 to 1835. Dacov / Lipany, another 4.5 km away, has records from 1844 to 1906. Where are the missing 9 years?
          >
          > From: Sandra & John Panzitta
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:44 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Greek Catholic Church in Brezovica
          >
          > Happy New Year All!
          >
          > I am looking for the Greek Catholic Church where inhabitants of Brezovica, Saros County, Presov Region, would have attended. Thanks much for your anticipated help. Sandra
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • An American Hare
          Milan - passport from where to where in 1200 s?? You may find letter of safe passage at best like I did. And that was 1400 s to Hungary! Ladislav - A big thank
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 28, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Milan - passport from where to where in 1200's?? You may find letter of safe passage at best like I did. And that was 1400's to Hungary!

            Ladislav - A big thank you for that link! Found my own folks in there. Seems is references mostly when we were in Kunova Teplica.

            Milan - Ron is right. There is lots of reading to do.

            good luck to you! you've been led to the right places.

            LLeporis

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
            >
            > Milan,
            > As Ron suggested, consider the history of Hungary during the period also. After repelling the Mongol invasion, Hungary was from about 1250 to 1500 in an expansive and powerful position. It took the
            > Dalmatian coast from Venice, so absorbed all of Croatia, Slovenia,
            > Bosnia, and most of present day Serbia, Transylvania, and northern Bulgaria, and much of present day Ukraine. It was powerful and at relative peace, absorbing newcomers regularly. In the 1200's the first groups of Saxon Germans came to present day Slovakia and to Transylvania (Romania). The Ottoman empire does not seriously threaten Hungary until about 1450.
            >
            > Curt B.
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Milan,
            > >
            > > I suggest you start looking at history specifically as it applies to Hungary to get a broad picture of the different eras and events as it was experienced by your ancestors over time. 1200 may be quite different than 1220, and both are certainly quite different from 1400. Turkish wars and Crusades were different wars, and the Crusades as they passed through Hungary were sometimes more destructive to Hungary than to the Moslems in the Holy Land! the Turks occupied parts of Hungary for 150+ years and were on the changing borders longer than that, and when there were not official wars there were skirmishes taking place. This is all history that we will not get by reading our paltry western histories. You will have to start looking specifically at Hungarian history. I would suggest reading from several sources and perspectives, as Hungarians are quite well known to idealize and romanticize and invent history, particularly in the late 1800's and toward the 1000 year celebration of the arrival at the Danubian Plain.
            > >
            > > You have years of reading to do, and getting a good feel for how your ancestors lived is the best you can hope for unless you stumble across some archive with fragments of history that tell about your family.
            > >
            > > In fact, go to google books and do a search for your family name to see if it occurs in old volumes they have on line. The books may be in other languages, but it could be a source...
            > >
            > > Ron
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Curt
            > > >  
            > > > You confirmed part of the story in my family. The part that states that we came to fight the Turks. I'm finding that there was more than one crusade. I guess that's why they call them the crusades. Like you said the English lend the nineth crusade.
            > > >  
            > > > Thanks you helped put the era into perspective!
            > > >  
            > > > Milan
            > > >
            > > > --- On Mon, 12/27/10, CurtB <curt67boc@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
            > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Received: Monday, December 27, 2010, 2:16 PM
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >  
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Well, lets see. Where and how and why were people travelling in 1273. This is when the French preachers and King were leading the great Crusade and there was vast movement of peoples to fight the Turks. The Habsburgs get elected Emperors. the King of France dies on the crusade, and the English lead the ninth crusade....
            > > >
            > > > 1273, one of the years of the great movement of peoples all over Europe, and fighting the Turks, and expansion of German speaking peoples into Eastern Europe.
            > > >
            > > > Curt B.
            > > >
            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Thank You Everyone!
            > > > >  
            > > > > You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.
            > > > >  
            > > > > You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!
            > > > > Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!
            > > > >  
            > > > > How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?
            > > > >  
            > > > > I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.
            > > > >  
            > > > > The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?
            > > > >  
            > > > > I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.
            > > > >  
            > > > > Now I need proof of the real storie!
            > > > >  
            > > > > Milan
            > > > >
            > > > > --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@>
            > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
            > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >  
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi,
            > > > >
            > > > > To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.
            > > > >
            > > > > There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.
            > > > > You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.
            > > > >
            > > > > The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.
            > > > >
            > > > > This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)
            > > > > http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ
            > > > >
            > > > > on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.
            > > > >
            > > > > There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.
            > > > >
            > > > > Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)
            > > > >
            > > > > In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility
            > > > >
            > > > > Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.
            > > > > Munhard, l. Mumhard.
            > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)
            > > > > Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.
            > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.
            > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.
            > > > > Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.
            > > > > Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)
            > > > > Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.
            > > > > 295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)
            > > > > Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).
            > > > >
            > > > > Ladislav
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > From: An American Hare
            > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM
            > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
            > > > >
            > > > > Milan,
            > > > >
            > > > > To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/
            > > > >
            > > > > I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.
            > > > >
            > > > > LLeporis
            > > > >
            > > > > PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...
            > > > >
            > > > > Dear Sir. The prices:
            > > > >
            > > > > SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR
            > > > > Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR
            > > > > Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR
            > > > > Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR
            > > > > Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR
            > > > >
            > > > > Posting: 20 EUR
            > > > > VAT: 0 EUR (USA)
            > > > > TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)
            > > > >
            > > > > The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:
            > > > > Bank: OTP Bank Hungary
            > > > > Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
            > > > > IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000
            > > > > If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately
            > > > >
            > > > > Sandor BISZAK
            > > > > ARCANUM, Hungary
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Ladislav Rosival
            The spelling Munkachy is uncommon, I found only Munkácsy families in literature. The pronunciation is the same. But no match with your informations. Probably
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 29, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              The spelling Munkachy is uncommon, I found only Munkácsy families in literature. The pronunciation is the same. But no match with your informations.

              Probably you know, that Munkács is the hungarian name for Mukacevo and Munkácsy means somone who is from Munkács. So it is not suprising, that there are many Munkácsy/Munkáchy families.

              I found some entrys also on this link:
              http://regi.pim.hu/Online/Adattar/gudenus.php?m0=0&o0=1&e0=Munk&v0=0&m1=0&o1=0&e1=&valt=kuld&vs=2&alsoi=1&kul=25

              the same link as tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/33lqutv

              Ladislav


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: sedlak93
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:16 AM
              Subject: [S-R] Munkachy Armales



              To Ladislav:
              The Armales I have was awarded to Stephane (Stephanos) Munkachy
              in 1647 in Bratislava. The record is on file in the Presov Archives.
              The date on the document is 1648.
              I have researched nobility publications (Nagy, Kempelen,
              Siebmacher, etc.) They do not mention this Armales.
              I would like to locate where Munkachy lived,born etc.
              Do you have any leads for where to search?

              Lou

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ladislav Rosival" <lacoros@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > some remarks to the Olle Family, years and so
              >
              > The Hungerian text in the book of Nagy Iván:
              > Ollé család. (Ollé-tejedi.)
              > Pozsony vármegyei régi nemes család, Csallóközben Ollé-Tejed helységben már a XIII. században 1273-ban birtokos. Nevezett helység hajdán â€" még a XV. században is Csat-Téjednek iratott, innen irták elÅ`nevüket 1422-ben Bálint Jánosnak fia, Ulrik Péternek fia, György Adorjánnak fia, és Illés Péternek fia, mindnyájan nobiles de Csat-Tejed, kik úgy látszik â€" az irt évben csat-tejedi birtokukat négy részre osztották föl.* Ezen Å`söknek ivadékai a XVII. század elején már Ollé-tejedi elÅ`névvel éltek; igy élt 1620-ban névszerint Ollé Péter, kitÅ`l a származás* következÅ` renddel történt:
              >
              >
              > The translation via googletranslete is not very good - I dont understand it - so my attempt to translate it
              >
              > Family Olle de Ollé-tejed
              > old noble family of Pozsony county, they were landowners already in XII-th century in 1273 in the village Ollé Tejed in Csallóköz.
              >
              > They wrote their name according to the village Csat-Téjed.
              >
              > In 1422 Bálint son of János, Ulrik son of Péter, György son of Adorján and Illés son of Péter all of them nobiles de Csat-Tejed - it looks like they divided their possesion into four parts.
              >
              > Descendants of these ancestors on the begining of the XVII-th century used the name Ollé de Ollé-Tejed. In 1620 lived Ollé Peter, from this person goes the family on.
              >
              >
              > Pozsony - is todays Bratislava
              > Csalóköz is Žitný ostrov river island between Bratislava and Komárno ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%c3%85%c2%bditn%c3%83%c2%bd_ostrov )
              >
              > So the not very good translation, but I hope you will understand.
              >
              > My considerations:
              >
              > - the year 1273 will be the date of the oldest document, where the name of the village occurs. Thera a lot of villages which are first mentioned in the second half of XII-th century - its the time after the Mongolian invasion, when great parts of Kingdom of hungary were destroyed and the population decimed. (see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%c3%83%c2%a9la_IV_of_Hungary )
              > After this Invasion the King Belo IV, invited people from Germany to come to Hungary - most of them went to Spis-County. Also he supported formation of cities. And he made a lot of donatios of land to his soldiers.
              > On the home page of Dunajská streda (Mliečany is now a part of it) states: "Prvá písomná správa o mestskej časti Dunajskej Stredy EIÅ`tejed v podobe Eleuteied je z r. 1280" First written record of ElÅ`tejed is from the year 1280 in form Eleuteied).
              >
              >
              > - it seems in 1422 they were at least 3 or 4 families with the same name in this village
              >
              > - it will be pretty hard to find names of the persons which lived in Olle-tejed before 1620 and to find some connections.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ladislav
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Milan Olle
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 6:53 PM
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
              >
              >
              >
              > Thank You Everyone!
              >
              > You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.
              >
              > You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!
              > Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!
              >
              > How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?
              >
              > I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.
              >
              > The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?
              >
              > I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.
              >
              > Now I need proof of the real storie!
              >
              > Milan
              >
              > --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.
              >
              > There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.
              > You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.
              >
              > The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.
              >
              > This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)
              > http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ
              >
              > on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.
              >
              > There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.
              >
              > Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)
              >
              > In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility
              >
              > Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.
              > Munhard, l. Mumhard.
              > Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)
              > Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.
              > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.
              > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.
              > Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.
              > Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)
              > Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.
              > 295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)
              > Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).
              >
              > Ladislav
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: An American Hare
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
              >
              > Milan,
              >
              > To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/
              >
              > I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.
              >
              > LLeporis
              >
              > PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...
              >
              > Dear Sir. The prices:
              >
              > SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR
              > Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR
              > Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR
              > Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR
              > Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR
              >
              > Posting: 20 EUR
              > VAT: 0 EUR (USA)
              > TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)
              >
              > The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:
              > Bank: OTP Bank Hungary
              > Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
              > IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000
              > If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately
              >
              > Sandor BISZAK
              > ARCANUM, Hungary
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Milan Olle
              Thank you all!   You went beyond my expectations. I was hoping for a hint as to where to look and you all painted a HUGE picture for me. I would love to take
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 29, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you all!
                 
                You went beyond my expectations. I was hoping for a hint as to where to look and you all painted a HUGE picture for me. I would love to take you all out for a beer!
                 
                I hate to admitt to my ignorance but that's why I'm here. Yes I intend to brush up on history to help understand my history and just because I find all this intresting!
                 
                Lleporis- A letter of safe passage! I never thought of that. Where would I find something like that? From where is the problem. All the family stories have us comming from some where at request to fight the turks. Some stories say from the north. I heard Finland a few times. My grandfather said something about France once but I can't remember the details.
                 
                I met a man with my last name from France recently. He says we are cousins. I am still in contact with him. I see a passing resemblance!  He says he knows his family's past to the 1200's. He claims that some of his ancestors left Pyrenees, France in the 1400's!
                 
                Also, he claims that Olle has a meaning in French: le pot! So I'm more inclined to believe that Olle came from France than a northern European Country at ths point. I still have no proof and I don't know where or when to look.
                 
                Let me recap my view. I have a family myth that states that my family came to fight the Turks (1400's?). A certificate of nobility from 1426. A possible family member that claims we (Slovak Olle family) came from France in the 1400's. Now I am told that the Olle's have been land owners in Csattejed since before 1273.
                 
                I'm guessing that the 1400's are not the time of origin. I'm guessing that there probably was an invitation to go on a mission. I'm sure the stories were based on something. Someone knew something at somepoint.
                 
                Should I look at old records of the  Dunajska Streda area or should I book a flight and tour the cemetaries of the area? Are my answers in Slovakia or in Hungary? Who keeps the records for that area?
                 
                Milan

                --- On Tue, 12/28/10, An American Hare <leporis1@...> wrote:


                From: An American Hare <leporis1@...>
                Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 10:41 PM


                 



                Milan - passport from where to where in 1200's?? You may find letter of safe passage at best like I did. And that was 1400's to Hungary!

                Ladislav - A big thank you for that link! Found my own folks in there. Seems is references mostly when we were in Kunova Teplica.

                Milan - Ron is right. There is lots of reading to do.

                good luck to you! you've been led to the right places.

                LLeporis

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                >
                > Milan,
                > As Ron suggested, consider the history of Hungary during the period also. After repelling the Mongol invasion, Hungary was from about 1250 to 1500 in an expansive and powerful position. It took the
                > Dalmatian coast from Venice, so absorbed all of Croatia, Slovenia,
                > Bosnia, and most of present day Serbia, Transylvania, and northern Bulgaria, and much of present day Ukraine. It was powerful and at relative peace, absorbing newcomers regularly. In the 1200's the first groups of Saxon Germans came to present day Slovakia and to Transylvania (Romania). The Ottoman empire does not seriously threaten Hungary until about 1450.
                >
                > Curt B.
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Milan,
                > >
                > > I suggest you start looking at history specifically as it applies to Hungary to get a broad picture of the different eras and events as it was experienced by your ancestors over time. 1200 may be quite different than 1220, and both are certainly quite different from 1400. Turkish wars and Crusades were different wars, and the Crusades as they passed through Hungary were sometimes more destructive to Hungary than to the Moslems in the Holy Land! the Turks occupied parts of Hungary for 150+ years and were on the changing borders longer than that, and when there were not official wars there were skirmishes taking place. This is all history that we will not get by reading our paltry western histories. You will have to start looking specifically at Hungarian history. I would suggest reading from several sources and perspectives, as Hungarians are quite well known to idealize and romanticize and invent history, particularly in the late 1800's and toward
                the 1000 year celebration of the arrival at the Danubian Plain.
                > >
                > > You have years of reading to do, and getting a good feel for how your ancestors lived is the best you can hope for unless you stumble across some archive with fragments of history that tell about your family.
                > >
                > > In fact, go to google books and do a search for your family name to see if it occurs in old volumes they have on line. The books may be in other languages, but it could be a source...
                > >
                > > Ron
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Curt
                > > >  
                > > > You confirmed part of the story in my family. The part that states that we came to fight the Turks. I'm finding that there was more than one crusade. I guess that's why they call them the crusades. Like you said the English lend the nineth crusade.
                > > >  
                > > > Thanks you helped put the era into perspective!
                > > >  
                > > > Milan
                > > >
                > > > --- On Mon, 12/27/10, CurtB <curt67boc@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
                > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
                > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Received: Monday, December 27, 2010, 2:16 PM
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >  
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Well, lets see. Where and how and why were people travelling in 1273. This is when the French preachers and King were leading the great Crusade and there was vast movement of peoples to fight the Turks. The Habsburgs get elected Emperors. the King of France dies on the crusade, and the English lead the ninth crusade....
                > > >
                > > > 1273, one of the years of the great movement of peoples all over Europe, and fighting the Turks, and expansion of German speaking peoples into Eastern Europe.
                > > >
                > > > Curt B.
                > > >
                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Thank You Everyone!
                > > > >  
                > > > > You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.
                > > > >  
                > > > > You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!
                > > > > Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!
                > > > >  
                > > > > How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?
                > > > >  
                > > > > I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.
                > > > >  
                > > > > The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?
                > > > >  
                > > > > I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.
                > > > >  
                > > > > Now I need proof of the real storie!
                > > > >  
                > > > > Milan
                > > > >
                > > > > --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@>
                > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
                > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >  
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi,
                > > > >
                > > > > To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.
                > > > >
                > > > > There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.
                > > > > You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.
                > > > >
                > > > > The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.
                > > > >
                > > > > This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)
                > > > > http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ
                > > > >
                > > > > on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.
                > > > >
                > > > > There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.
                > > > >
                > > > > Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)
                > > > >
                > > > > In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility
                > > > >
                > > > > Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.
                > > > > Munhard, l. Mumhard.
                > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)
                > > > > Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.
                > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.
                > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.
                > > > > Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.
                > > > > Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)
                > > > > Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.
                > > > > 295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)
                > > > > Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).
                > > > >
                > > > > Ladislav
                > > > >
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: An American Hare
                > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM
                > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
                > > > >
                > > > > Milan,
                > > > >
                > > > > To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/
                > > > >
                > > > > I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.
                > > > >
                > > > > LLeporis
                > > > >
                > > > > PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...
                > > > >
                > > > > Dear Sir. The prices:
                > > > >
                > > > > SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR
                > > > > Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR
                > > > > Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR
                > > > > Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR
                > > > > Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR
                > > > >
                > > > > Posting: 20 EUR
                > > > > VAT: 0 EUR (USA)
                > > > > TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)
                > > > >
                > > > > The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:
                > > > > Bank: OTP Bank Hungary
                > > > > Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
                > > > > IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000
                > > > > If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately
                > > > >
                > > > > Sandor BISZAK
                > > > > ARCANUM, Hungary
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                >










                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jan Ammann
                Hello Milan.......... Well, you have received a lot of valuable information from this Slovak roots group and I hope you do continue to pursue your early
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 29, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Milan..........

                  Well, you have received a lot of valuable information from this Slovak roots group and I hope you do continue to pursue your early family.

                  I would like to make a comment to your saying that "Finland had been mentioned a few times by your family."  Perhaps I can clear that up for you or at least I will give it a try.

                  Several years ago when I was talking to my Hungarian relatives about how difficult it is to pronounce the Hungarian language Tibor told me that "the Finnish and Hungarian language belong to the same linguistical family" and that the Finnish language has some of the same melodic sounds as the Hungarian language.

                  There actually was a connection between the people of Finland and Hungary even though there is a great geographical difference between them.  The separation of the Finno-Ugric family took place about 4,500 to 5,000 years ago.

                  So I am telling you this because some members of your family (different generations) perhaps talked about this Finno-Ugric connection.  Since I asked this question of my Hungarian relatives perhaps the same thing happened in your family and so the "question of perhaps having Finnish roots" has been passed on to you in this way.

                  History is a wonderful thing..........it becomes almost obsessive when a person begins to read about a country and its people. You find so many questions and it makes you want to continue and find out even more data.  And so a person continues on that path and begins to "feel a part" of what he or she has read and absorbed.

                  So............just some background on Finland that perhaps you had not known about and perhaps it will add to your family history documentation.

                  Jan

                  --- On Wed, 12/29/10, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@...> wrote:

                  From: Milan Olle <coolkeytool@...>
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 4:54 PM







                   









                  Thank you all!

                   

                  You went beyond my expectations. I was hoping for a hint as to where to look and you all painted a HUGE picture for me. I would love to take you all out for a beer!

                   

                  I hate to admitt to my ignorance but that's why I'm here. Yes I intend to brush up on history to help understand my history and just because I find all this intresting!

                   

                  Lleporis- A letter of safe passage! I never thought of that. Where would I find something like that? From where is the problem. All the family stories have us comming from some where at request to fight the turks. Some stories say from the north. I heard Finland a few times. My grandfather said something about France once but I can't remember the details.

                   

                  I met a man with my last name from France recently. He says we are cousins. I am still in contact with him. I see a passing resemblance!  He says he knows his family's past to the 1200's. He claims that some of his ancestors left Pyrenees, France in the 1400's!

                   

                  Also, he claims that Olle has a meaning in French: le pot! So I'm more inclined to believe that Olle came from France than a northern European Country at ths point. I still have no proof and I don't know where or when to look.

                   

                  Let me recap my view. I have a family myth that states that my family came to fight the Turks (1400's?). A certificate of nobility from 1426. A possible family member that claims we (Slovak Olle family) came from France in the 1400's. Now I am told that the Olle's have been land owners in Csattejed since before 1273.

                   

                  I'm guessing that the 1400's are not the time of origin. I'm guessing that there probably was an invitation to go on a mission. I'm sure the stories were based on something. Someone knew something at somepoint.

                   

                  Should I look at old records of the  Dunajska Streda area or should I book a flight and tour the cemetaries of the area? Are my answers in Slovakia or in Hungary? Who keeps the records for that area?

                   

                  Milan



                  --- On Tue, 12/28/10, An American Hare <leporis1@...> wrote:



                  From: An American Hare <leporis1@...>

                  Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                  Received: Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 10:41 PM



                   



                  Milan - passport from where to where in 1200's?? You may find letter of safe passage at best like I did. And that was 1400's to Hungary!



                  Ladislav - A big thank you for that link! Found my own folks in there. Seems is references mostly when we were in Kunova Teplica.



                  Milan - Ron is right. There is lots of reading to do.



                  good luck to you! you've been led to the right places.



                  LLeporis



                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Milan,

                  > As Ron suggested, consider the history of Hungary during the period also. After repelling the Mongol invasion, Hungary was from about 1250 to 1500 in an expansive and powerful position. It took the

                  > Dalmatian coast from Venice, so absorbed all of Croatia, Slovenia,

                  > Bosnia, and most of present day Serbia, Transylvania, and northern Bulgaria, and much of present day Ukraine. It was powerful and at relative peace, absorbing newcomers regularly. In the 1200's the first groups of Saxon Germans came to present day Slovakia and to Transylvania (Romania). The Ottoman empire does not seriously threaten Hungary until about 1450.

                  >

                  > Curt B.

                  >

                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:

                  > >

                  > > Milan,

                  > >

                  > > I suggest you start looking at history specifically as it applies to Hungary to get a broad picture of the different eras and events as it was experienced by your ancestors over time. 1200 may be quite different than 1220, and both are certainly quite different from 1400. Turkish wars and Crusades were different wars, and the Crusades as they passed through Hungary were sometimes more destructive to Hungary than to the Moslems in the Holy Land! the Turks occupied parts of Hungary for 150+ years and were on the changing borders longer than that, and when there were not official wars there were skirmishes taking place. This is all history that we will not get by reading our paltry western histories. You will have to start looking specifically at Hungarian history. I would suggest reading from several sources and perspectives, as Hungarians are quite well known to idealize and romanticize and invent history, particularly in the late 1800's and toward

                  the 1000 year celebration of the arrival at the Danubian Plain.

                  > >

                  > > You have years of reading to do, and getting a good feel for how your ancestors lived is the best you can hope for unless you stumble across some archive with fragments of history that tell about your family.

                  > >

                  > > In fact, go to google books and do a search for your family name to see if it occurs in old volumes they have on line. The books may be in other languages, but it could be a source...

                  > >

                  > > Ron

                  > >

                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:

                  > > >

                  > > > Curt

                  > > >  

                  > > > You confirmed part of the story in my family. The part that states that we came to fight the Turks. I'm finding that there was more than one crusade. I guess that's why they call them the crusades. Like you said the English lend the nineth crusade.

                  > > >  

                  > > > Thanks you helped put the era into perspective!

                  > > >  

                  > > > Milan

                  > > >

                  > > > --- On Mon, 12/27/10, CurtB <curt67boc@> wrote:

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>

                  > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

                  > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                  > > > Received: Monday, December 27, 2010, 2:16 PM

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >  

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > > Well, lets see. Where and how and why were people travelling in 1273. This is when the French preachers and King were leading the great Crusade and there was vast movement of peoples to fight the Turks. The Habsburgs get elected Emperors. the King of France dies on the crusade, and the English lead the ninth crusade....

                  > > >

                  > > > 1273, one of the years of the great movement of peoples all over Europe, and fighting the Turks, and expansion of German speaking peoples into Eastern Europe.

                  > > >

                  > > > Curt B.

                  > > >

                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@> wrote:

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Thank You Everyone!

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > You have given my research the direction I needed and have given me a new point of view.

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > You just presented me with one problem though. The stories I've heard is that my family came by request of the king to fight the turks. I thought this would be the 1440's? Another researcher doing another branch in my family believed my family came in the 1400's also!

                  > > > > Now according to Arcanum I read that my family came to Olletejed in 1273 and that is an exact date!

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > How do I get proof of arrival? Where do I find a stamped passport from the 1200's or whenever they actually arrived?

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > I guess the why they came maybe lost forever in time.

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > The question how they came would be intresting because I hear that travel was expensive and no one traveled alone because of highway robbers. Who did they come with?

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > I started my research into my families geneology by an accident. I was and still am on a quest for the truth to the stories that I heard as a kid that no one wants to talk about now that I'm asking questions.

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > Now I need proof of the real storie!

                  > > > >  

                  > > > > Milan

                  > > > >

                  > > > > --- On Sun, 12/26/10, Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@> wrote:

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > > From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@>

                  > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

                  > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                  > > > > Received: Sunday, December 26, 2010, 2:55 PM

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >  

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Hi,

                  > > > >

                  > > > > To Arcanum - its better to order the "Arcanum DVD könyvtár IV." On this DVD are the books from Nagy Iván, Kempelen Béla, Turul, and some more genealogical ans hostrical books. It is very helpfull when you are working on genealogy of noble families from the old Kingdom of Hungary.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > There are 2 CDs from Szluha Márton and one from Gudenus-A magyarországi fonemesség 20. századi genealógiája - this books are new books and partly include also the 20-th century.

                  > > > > You have to be familiar with hungarian language because not only the content but also the program "speaks" only hungarian.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > The books of Nagy Iván are also available via googlebooks.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > This is a link to volumes 7 and 8 (one googlebook)

                  > > > > http://www.google.com/books?id=HPgUAAAAYAAJ

                  > > > >

                  > > > > on page 225you will find a familytree begining with Peter de Olle-Tejed from 1620. In the text he wrote, that this family lived in this village from 1273.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > There are a lot of Nagy families in volume 8 (more then 60 pages of diffrent Nagy families). It is possible that for you the most interisting will be the first family from Nyék, bacouse here is also mentioned the name Kósa alias Zeke.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Mukácsy family has only a smal entry in the Volume 7 of Nagy Iván (the link above)

                  > > > >

                  > > > > In Kempelens book (volume 7) are listed 9 Munkácsy family - every only with a small notice about the date when they recived an certificate of nobility

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Munkácsy. Nemességét 1609-bol l. Gyfv. LR. VI-79.

                  > > > > Munhard, l. Mumhard.

                  > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levelet 1622. jun. M. István nyert az Érsekujváry-családdal. (Nyitram. lt.)

                  > > > > Munkács. Nemességét 1631-bol l. Gyfv. kpt. Cent. XX-58.

                  > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1650. - Vö. Siebm. 435.; T. IX-156.

                  > > > > Munkácsy. Czímeres levele kelt 1655. jun. 23. (Beregm. lt.) - Vö. NIf. III-96.

                  > > > > Munkácsy. A czímeres levelet 1736. decz. 16. M. János nyerte. (LR. XXXVII-558.) - Vö. NI. VII-578-9.; Siebm. 436.; Tóth I-383.

                  > > > > Munkácsy (munkácsi). A nemességet és elonevet 1880. deczember 11. M. Mihály festo, párisi lakos kapta. (MNA. 94.)

                  > > > > Munkácsy-családbeliek. Az 1754/55. évi orsz. nemesi összeiráskor Pozsonymegyében János; Szabolcsmegyében Ferencz fordulnak elo az igazolt nemesek között. - Vö. NI. VII-579.; Siebm. pk. 91-2.; Simon 57.

                  > > > > 295Munkácsy, l. Barkassy (alias M.)

                  > > > > Munkácsy, l. Gerzanits (M).

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Ladislav

                  > > > >

                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----

                  > > > > From: An American Hare

                  > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com

                  > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:16 PM

                  > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: OLLE, KOSSA, RIMAY, NAGY

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Milan,

                  > > > >

                  > > > > To be honest the best place to look is in Arcanum's site for the CD that might have the info you're looking for. Our family's letter patent and crest/coat of arms (whatever) was in good keeping with my family in Slovakia. Believe it or not I have not found any better point of research than this, a little pathetic. http://www.arcanum.hu/

                  > > > >

                  > > > > I have found a great many references in google books for my ancestors so you could try that too.

                  > > > >

                  > > > > LLeporis

                  > > > >

                  > > > > PS here is an idea what to look for and what it will cost...

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Dear Sir. The prices:

                  > > > >

                  > > > > SIEBMACHER'S WAPPENBUCH Nagy címereskönyv 20 EUR

                  > > > > Kempelen: Magyar Nemes Családok 20 EUR

                  > > > > Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai 20 EUR

                  > > > > Szluha: Felvidéki nemes családok 20 EUR

                  > > > > Turul 1883-1950 20 EUR

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Posting: 20 EUR

                  > > > > VAT: 0 EUR (USA)

                  > > > > TOTAL: 120 EUR (or 180 USD)

                  > > > >

                  > > > > The method of payment: bank transfer. Our data:

                  > > > > Bank: OTP Bank Hungary

                  > > > > Swift Code: OTPVHUHB

                  > > > > IBAN: HU93117110412078449200000000

                  > > > > If we receive the money we send the CDs immediately

                  > > > >

                  > > > > Sandor BISZAK

                  > > > > ARCANUM, Hungary

                  > > > >

                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > >

                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  > > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > >

                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  > > >

                  > >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















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