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Cause of death

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  • CurtB
    I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890 s. In 1891 a lot of very young children
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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      I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:

      roncsolo toroklab

      Apparently something about a bad throat.
      Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?

      You may see a page with a number of examples online at:

      Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.

      Curt B.
    • nilo3rak
      toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep throat, mumps. Carolyn
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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        toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep throat, mumps.
        Carolyn

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
        >
        > roncsolo toroklab
        >
        > Apparently something about a bad throat.
        > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
        >
        > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
        >
        > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
        >
        > Curt B.
        >
      • CurtB
        Thanks Carolyn, I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months,
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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          Thanks Carolyn,
          I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months, all with the same cause of death listed. The usual period words for mumps are mumpsz or the complicated one: fultomomirigy gyulladas.

          Curt B.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@...> wrote:
          >
          > toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep throat, mumps.
          > Carolyn
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
          > >
          > > roncsolo toroklab
          > >
          > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
          > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
          > >
          > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
          > >
          > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > >
          >
        • Elizabeth Tjomsland
          How about diptheria? It can affect the throat and eventually impair breathing. Can be fatal.Just a guess.Liz ... From: CurtB Subject:
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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            How about diptheria? It can affect the throat and eventually impair breathing. Can be fatal.Just a guess.Liz

            --- On Mon, 11/15/10, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

            From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
            Subject: [S-R] Cause of death
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 9:51 AM
















             









            I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:



            roncsolo toroklab



            Apparently something about a bad throat.

            Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?



            You may see a page with a number of examples online at:



            Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.



            Curt B.






























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nilo3rak
            Well these were just lay peopl , compare in one death that I read the baby died of cough, so was it pneumonia, influenza, unknown virus, or whooping cough?
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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              Well these were just lay peopl , compare in one death that I read the baby died of cough, so was it pneumonia, influenza, unknown virus, or whooping cough? They often did not have the precision of diagnosis that we are used to, so often a symtom, not the disease is listed as the cause of death.

              I also found this word, torokgyik - which did double duty as meaning diiptheria or mumps.

              Carolyn



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Carolyn,
              > I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months, all with the same cause of death listed. The usual period words for mumps are mumpsz or the complicated one: fultomomirigy gyulladas.
              >
              > Curt B.
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@> wrote:
              > >
              > > toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep throat, mumps.
              > > Carolyn
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
              > > >
              > > > roncsolo toroklab
              > > >
              > > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
              > > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
              > > >
              > > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
              > > >
              > > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
              > > >
              > > > Curt B.
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • CurtB
              Elizabeth, Thanks very much. I have received another private mail confirmation that this does refer to an epidemic of diptheria, though it is not the usual
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                Elizabeth,
                Thanks very much. I have received another private mail confirmation that this does refer to an epidemic of diptheria, though it is not the usual contemporary medical term. As someone mentioned before, it can sometimes refer to just mumps, but when it is a big killer --- its diphtheria.

                Best,
                Curt B.

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Tjomsland <e_tjomsland@...> wrote:
                >
                > How about diptheria? It can affect the throat and eventually impair breathing. Can be fatal.Just a guess.Liz
                >
                > --- On Mon, 11/15/10, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                > Subject: [S-R] Cause of death
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 9:51 AM
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                > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                >
                >
                >
                > roncsolo toroklab
                >
                >
                >
                > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                >
                > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                >
                >
                >
                > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                >
                >
                >
                > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
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                > Curt B.
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              • CurtB
                Carolyn, Thanks for the help. I have received confirmation from Slovakia that this was a diphtheria epidemic. The pastor came from a highly educated noble
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                  Carolyn,
                  Thanks for the help. I have received confirmation from Slovakia that this was a diphtheria epidemic. The pastor came from a highly educated noble family and he is pretty meticulous about causes of death in this register in the 1890's. It turns out he just uses an unusual phrase for this one. A total of 24 children die in the parish that winter and spring from the epidemic and all are listed in the same exact way.

                  Curt B.

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well these were just lay peopl , compare in one death that I read the baby died of cough, so was it pneumonia, influenza, unknown virus, or whooping cough? They often did not have the precision of diagnosis that we are used to, so often a symtom, not the disease is listed as the cause of death.
                  >
                  > I also found this word, torokgyik - which did double duty as meaning diiptheria or mumps.
                  >
                  > Carolyn
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Carolyn,
                  > > I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months, all with the same cause of death listed. The usual period words for mumps are mumpsz or the complicated one: fultomomirigy gyulladas.
                  > >
                  > > Curt B.
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep throat, mumps.
                  > > > Carolyn
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > roncsolo toroklab
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                  > > > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Curt B.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Michael Mojher
                  Curt, The encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences ..., Volume 14 edited by Hugh Chisholm – Influenza. In 1890 Europe was hit by the biggest
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                    Curt,

                    The encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences ..., Volume 14 edited by Hugh Chisholm – Influenza.
                    In 1890 Europe was hit by the biggest outbreak of influenza that has ever occurred there. Taking a few years to do its damage throughout Europe.

                    Slovak History Chronology and Lexicon – 1892.

                    “In 1892 mass starvation hit mountainous northern Hungary (Slovakia) after repeated failures of the the crops of potatoes, cabbages and grain crops.”
                    These failures began years earlier and surely had an affect when diseases struck.


                    From: CurtB
                    Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 6:55 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Cause of death


                    Elizabeth,
                    Thanks very much. I have received another private mail confirmation that this does refer to an epidemic of diptheria, though it is not the usual contemporary medical term. As someone mentioned before, it can sometimes refer to just mumps, but when it is a big killer --- its diphtheria.

                    Best,
                    Curt B.

                    --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Tjomsland <e_tjomsland@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > How about diptheria? It can affect the throat and eventually impair breathing. Can be fatal.Just a guess.Liz
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 11/15/10, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                    > Subject: [S-R] Cause of death
                    > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 9:51 AM
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                    > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > roncsolo toroklab
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                    >
                    > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
                    >
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                    > Curt B.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • CurtB
                    Michael, The great Asian flu pandemic (H2N8) hit in Siroke in winter of 1889/1890 and is noticeable in the death registers but seems not to be as severe cause
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                      Michael,
                      The great Asian flu pandemic (H2N8) hit in Siroke in winter of 1889/1890 and is noticeable in the death registers but seems not to be as severe cause of death there as reported in Western Europe and then U.S. in subsequent years.

                      The village also was agriculturally prosperous and not deeply affected by the crop failures further north. Though some families in all villages and towns remained very poor and ill fed. Inadequate diets always put children and elderly at particular risk to almost every passing germ or bacteria.

                      Curt B.

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Curt,
                      >
                      > The encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences ..., Volume 14 edited by Hugh Chisholm â€" Influenza.
                      > In 1890 Europe was hit by the biggest outbreak of influenza that has ever occurred there. Taking a few years to do its damage throughout Europe.
                      >
                      > Slovak History Chronology and Lexicon â€" 1892.
                      >
                      > “In 1892 mass starvation hit mountainous northern Hungary (Slovakia) after repeated failures of the the crops of potatoes, cabbages and grain crops.”
                      > These failures began years earlier and surely had an affect when diseases struck.
                      >
                      >
                      > From: CurtB
                      > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 6:55 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Cause of death
                      >
                      >
                      > Elizabeth,
                      > Thanks very much. I have received another private mail confirmation that this does refer to an epidemic of diptheria, though it is not the usual contemporary medical term. As someone mentioned before, it can sometimes refer to just mumps, but when it is a big killer --- its diphtheria.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > Curt B.
                      >
                      > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Tjomsland <e_tjomsland@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > How about diptheria? It can affect the throat and eventually impair breathing. Can be fatal.Just a guess.Liz
                      > >
                      > > --- On Mon, 11/15/10, CurtB <curt67boc@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
                      > > Subject: [S-R] Cause of death
                      > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                      > > Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 9:51 AM
                      > >
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                      > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > roncsolo toroklab
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                      > >
                      > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Curt B.
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                    • Bill Tarkulich
                      Hi Curt, Attached is a link to a Hungarian Lexicon of Medical terms. I have linked it to Google Translate to give you the gist of what is being said:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 16, 2010
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                        Hi Curt,

                        Attached is a link to a Hungarian Lexicon of Medical terms. I have linked
                        it to Google Translate to give you the gist of what is being said:
                        http://tinyurl.com/2b9ncos
                        Roncsolo toroklob, or "destructive toroklob" is related to Difteria
                        (Diptheria) as Carolyn and you indicated.

                        It speaks of endemics, and, while it often targets adults, ages 2-7 years of
                        age were also seriously affected.


                        Bill

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of CurtB
                        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] Re: Cause of death

                        Carolyn,
                        Thanks for the help. I have received confirmation from Slovakia that this
                        was a diphtheria epidemic. The pastor came from a highly educated noble
                        family and he is pretty meticulous about causes of death in this register in
                        the 1890's. It turns out he just uses an unusual phrase for this one. A
                        total of 24 children die in the parish that winter and spring from the
                        epidemic and all are listed in the same exact way.

                        Curt B.

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well these were just lay peopl , compare in one death that I read the baby
                        died of cough, so was it pneumonia, influenza, unknown virus, or whooping
                        cough? They often did not have the precision of diagnosis that we are used
                        to, so often a symtom, not the disease is listed as the cause of death.
                        >
                        > I also found this word, torokgyik - which did double duty as meaning
                        diiptheria or mumps.
                        >
                        > Carolyn
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks Carolyn,
                        > > I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an
                        epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months,
                        all with the same cause of death listed. The usual period words for mumps
                        are mumpsz or the complicated one: fultomomirigy gyulladas.
                        > >
                        > > Curt B.
                        > >
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep
                        throat, mumps.
                        > > > Carolyn
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic
                        that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very
                        young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > roncsolo toroklab
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                        > > > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Curt B.
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >




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                      • CurtB
                        Bill T. Really thanks, just what I need to finish my study. Curt B.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 16, 2010
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                          Bill T.

                          Really thanks, just what I need to finish my study.

                          Curt B.

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Curt,
                          >
                          > Attached is a link to a Hungarian Lexicon of Medical terms. I have linked
                          > it to Google Translate to give you the gist of what is being said:
                          > http://tinyurl.com/2b9ncos
                          > Roncsolo toroklob, or "destructive toroklob" is related to Difteria
                          > (Diptheria) as Carolyn and you indicated.
                          >
                          > It speaks of endemics, and, while it often targets adults, ages 2-7 years of
                          > age were also seriously affected.
                          >
                          >
                          > Bill
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of CurtB
                          > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:08 PM
                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [S-R] Re: Cause of death
                          >
                          > Carolyn,
                          > Thanks for the help. I have received confirmation from Slovakia that this
                          > was a diphtheria epidemic. The pastor came from a highly educated noble
                          > family and he is pretty meticulous about causes of death in this register in
                          > the 1890's. It turns out he just uses an unusual phrase for this one. A
                          > total of 24 children die in the parish that winter and spring from the
                          > epidemic and all are listed in the same exact way.
                          >
                          > Curt B.
                          >
                          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Well these were just lay peopl , compare in one death that I read the baby
                          > died of cough, so was it pneumonia, influenza, unknown virus, or whooping
                          > cough? They often did not have the precision of diagnosis that we are used
                          > to, so often a symtom, not the disease is listed as the cause of death.
                          > >
                          > > I also found this word, torokgyik - which did double duty as meaning
                          > diiptheria or mumps.
                          > >
                          > > Carolyn
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks Carolyn,
                          > > > I already know about the sore throat part. But this is clearly an
                          > epidemic in which about 20 children die in two villages in about six months,
                          > all with the same cause of death listed. The usual period words for mumps
                          > are mumpsz or the complicated one: fultomomirigy gyulladas.
                          > > >
                          > > > Curt B.
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > toroklab refers to sore throat with swollen glands. Possibly strep
                          > throat, mumps.
                          > > > > Carolyn
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I am interested in find the cause of death in some kind of epidemic
                          > that hit the Slovak village of S~iroke in the 1890's. In 1891 a lot of very
                          > young children are listed with a cause of death in Hungarian:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > roncsolo toroklab
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Apparently something about a bad throat.
                          > > > > > Does anyone know a modern interpretation of this cause?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > You may see a page with a number of examples online at:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Siroke. inventory 1263, image 93.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Curt B.
                          > > > > >
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