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Re: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)

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  • Sam Mag
    Elaine, Thank you once again.  Very interesting.  The R.C. records are in Drienov or Somos.  I have searched there top to bottom.  The Vargony collection
    Message 1 of 97 , Nov 4, 2010
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      Elaine,
      Thank you once again.  Very interesting.  The R.C. records are in Drienov or
      Somos.  I have searched there top to bottom.  The Vargony collection holds my 2x
      grandparents and my g.grandfathers sister but not my g.grandfather, nor does
      Somos collection were he lived.  If it was easy it would not be any fun, I
      guess?  Thank you everyone for the name identification.  I will have to find
      another close village and comb it as well perhaps.  This is a bright bunch and I
      love reading through everything and absorbing it.
      Sam




      ________________________________
      From: Elaine Powell <epowell@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:34:01 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)

       
      Sam, I agree with Curt, and it will be good to have Janet look as well.

      The one thing that seems to me a little different is that instead of
      Sepessy with a "y" at the end, it looks like " i j " which would also
      produce a "y" sound. The person that recorded this information had
      extremely fine handwriting--by just glancing down the page, you can
      see that the letters are neat and precise, and once you get used to
      the Hungarian form of the names, it is quite readable. (Although the
      recorder used the Latin form of the father's name, Joannes.)

      The one question I would have for the group is that this record
      indicates that the wife was Roman Catholic, although her husband was
      GC. I was under the impression that in a marriage with mixed
      religions, the children were brought up RC. If that was the case (S-R
      members, please comment), then you might want to also look in the RC
      records. I did not see Vargony listed in the RC section, so the RC
      church must have been in another town.

      Elaine P

      On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:06 AM, CurtB wrote:

      > Sam,
      > I read it as Anna Sepessy, but maybe we can get Janet Kozlay to take
      > a look and see what she thinks.
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > * Help with a name? Line 23 Baptism for a Anna Juhasz. Parents are
      > Joannes
      > > Juhasz and Anna ? Thank you.
      > >
      > > * Slovakia, Prešov Region Church Books (Hungarian Place Names),
      > 1592-1906
      > > * Greek Catholic
      > > * Várgony
      > > * Copies of baptisms, marriages, deaths, Inv. č. 1355, 1860-1883
      > > * Image 10 of 286
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Elaine <epowell@...>
      > > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 9:21:45 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
      > >
      > >
      > > Sam,
      > >
      > > Is it possible that Janos' father Stefan was married twice? In other
      > > words, Janos' mother was Maria Tomko, who passed away after his
      > > birth...then Stefan married Barbara Kristofova, and they had Maria.
      > > That would account for why Janos' son was sure they were siblings,
      > > they would have been raised together by Stefan and the second
      > wife. To
      > > check this, look to see if there is a death record for Maria Tomko
      > > from the time after Janos' birth until around Maria's birth year.
      > >
      > > I thought of this because in my family, I discovered that my
      > > grandfather's father was married before he married my grandfather's
      > > mother. I found the record of the first marriage, and I'm positive
      > > it's my great grandfather, but the microfilmed records stop within a
      > > year after that marriage, which was about 9 years before my
      > > grandfather was born. (If anyone can recommend where I can find
      > > Kostolany records for 1895 to 1905, I would be very greatful!) The
      > > next record I have is the ship records showing my grandfather
      > > immigrating at age 5 in 1908 with his mother (and Maria, a 13 year
      > old
      > > listed as her daughter!) from that town going to the town in the US
      > > where they lived.
      > >
      > > Elaine P
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPhone
      > >
      > > On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Sam Mag <sammag30@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > I am indeed stuck.
      > > >
      > > > I began searching for Janos Juhasz from Drienov who lists on his
      > > > intention
      > > > papers and his war registration card (under the name of John
      > Yuhos)
      > > > his birth
      > > > of January 13, 1888 in Somos Voiros, Slovakia.
      > > >
      > > > I had his sister Maria's birth, marriage, immigration papers so I
      > > > had the name
      > > > of her parents to work with. Her parents were listed as Stefan
      > > > Juhasz and
      > > > Barbara Kristofova.
      > > >
      > > > I search the Drienov Rk records and found a Janos Juhasz who was
      > > > born in
      > > > 1889....not too big a deal one year difference but it lists the
      > > > parents as
      > > > Stefan Juhasz and Maria Tomko.
      > > >
      > > > I thought perhaps they were not siblings and could be cousins? I
      > > > reached out to
      > > > a living son of Janos Juhasz and he confirmed they were indeed
      > > > siblings without
      > > > a doubt. He did not recall the names of Janos' parents though.
      > > >
      > > > I searched the GK records of Vargony at the suggestion of a member
      > > > here and
      > > > found the birth record of Maria Juhasz (Janos' sister) and the
      > > > parents were
      > > > Stefan Juhasz GK and Barbara Kristof RK. (Vargony c.1355 136 of
      > > > 167) I searched
      > > > through this top to bottom as I did the Drienov records and no
      > Janos
      > > > Juhasz to
      > > > be found around this time to these parents. I did find the Parents
      > > > marriage
      > > > (c.1355 47 of 167) and this document was really amazing as it
      > showed
      > > > they were
      > > > married in America for some reason and then returned shortly
      > after.
      > > >
      > > > I know there was another sister Barbola Juhas who was born May 18,
      > > > 1901
      > > > according to her death record here in the U.S. I have her Ellis
      > > > Island paper
      > > > and it shows her father Stefan still living in Drienov in 1920.
      > > >
      > > > When I spoke to his son he told me he knew there was another
      > sibling
      > > > named
      > > > George that came to the U.S and went back, I have found nothing on
      > > > him either.
      > > >
      > > > I have been working on this for a while now and don't know which
      > way
      > > > to go. If
      > > > anyone has some suggestions please let me know. Perhaps another
      > > > town that
      > > > stored records for this area I could search? Barbara Kristof shows
      > > > her home
      > > > before drenov as Abrany and I have exhausted this as did another
      > > > from this site
      > > > helping me.
      > > >
      > > > Thank you once again for all you're help and suggestions.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: John <johnqadam@...>
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 9:19:33 PM
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I had exactly the same result as you did. That's why I suggested
      > the
      > > > 1869
      > > > Census. Ábrány (Abranovce) Film #2162305 Item 1
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I checked kokosovce records and the birth records that cover
      > > > 1841-1868 only go
      > > >
      > > > > to 1852? Short of the 1869 Census any advise on finding
      > > > documentation on
      > > > > Barbara Kristof born around 1864 in Abrany?
      > > > > * Roman Catholic
      > > > > * Kakasfalu
      > > > > * Marriages, deaths, Inv. č. 457, 1774-1890
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sam Mag
      Thank you, The hunt continues for the birth record. He put Jan 13th 1888 in Somos as his birth. I am happy to find this document.
      Message 97 of 97 , Nov 6, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you, The hunt continues for the birth record. He put Jan 13th 1888 in
        Somos as his birth. I am happy to find this document.






        ________________________________
        From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 9:20:27 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)


        Sam,
        The reason that it looks different is that it is a record of the sacrament of
        confirmation. It just says that

        He was confirmed in the parish church on April 1, 1897 by Nikolaus Hvozdovitz,
        delegate of the bishop of Presov.

        Curt B.

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@...> wrote:
        >
        > Very sorry it is image 147.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 3:26:18 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
        >
        >
        > Sam,
        > Can you check your citation? Image 146 of that inventory does not have the
        >item
        >
        > you indicate.
        >
        > Curt B.
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Today I was able to go through all of the Vargony or Varhanovce Greek
        >Catholic
        >
        >
        > > records to find something I missed and there were a couple things I did
        >indeed
        >
        >
        > > miss.
        > >
        > > I found the birth record for my great grandfather and was very excited to
        >find
        >
        >
        > > it but it is on a page that is different from all the others and do need some
        >
        > > help with the information including date and well anything you might notice.

        > >It
        > >
        > > is line 80 Joannes Juhasz born to Stephanus Juhasz and Barbara Kristofova.
        > >
        > > * Slovakia, Prešov Region Church Books (Hungarian Place Names), 1592-1906
        > > * Greek Catholic
        > > * Várgony
        > > * Baptisms, marriages, deaths, Inv. č. 1354, 1863-1889
        > > * Image 146 of 257The other thing is if someone could give a look at the
        >birth
        >
        > >
        > > record of Stephanus Juhasz Jr. and translate some of the information.
        > >
        > > Gk, Vargony/Varhanovce, c. 1355 image 42 of 168
        > > He was born to the same parents as Joannes above. If you have followed my
        > > stumbling saga that has clogged the boards you might remember I found that
        > > Stepahnus and Barbara were married in New York in 1885. Stephanus Jr. was
        >born
        >
        > >
        > > a yr. later I believe back in Somos. Another interesting thing is I found
        >they
        >
        > >
        > > had a child Istvan born in 1894 c. 1355 image 148/167. I found no death
        > > certificate for Stephanus Jr. Stepahnus and Istvan would be the same name,
        > no?
        > >
        > > Thanks again for all the help.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Elaine Powell <epowell@>
        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 1:03:39 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks for your insights, Curt.
        > >
        > > While my Slovak forebears were RC, they were on my mother's side, so
        > > we followed my father's religion, which was not Catholic. The RC
        > > records I have been reviewing had instances of information recorded of
        > > Greek Catholics in that RC church, and I must have made an incorrect
        > > assumption from some of the intricate arguments a while back on the
        > > subject of mixed marriages.
        > >
        > > Elaine
        > >
        > > On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:52 AM, CurtB wrote:
        > >
        > > > Elaine & Sam
        > > >
        > > > I do not believe that marriage between Greek and Roman Catholic were
        > > > considered mixed. They are just Catholics of different liturgical
        > > > rite. There are many examples and children here are just attending
        > > > the church of their father. Not at all unusual. Even today some
        > > > Roman Catholics in Slovakia attend the Greek Cathlolic parish
        > > > because it is in their village and they do not want to travel to
        > > > another.
        > > >
        > > > Curt B.
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Powell <epowell@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Sam, I agree with Curt, and it will be good to have Janet look as
        > > > well.
        > > > >
        > > > > The one thing that seems to me a little different is that instead of
        > > > > Sepessy with a "y" at the end, it looks like " i j " which would
        > > > also
        > > > > produce a "y" sound. The person that recorded this information had
        > > > > extremely fine handwriting--by just glancing down the page, you can
        > > > > see that the letters are neat and precise, and once you get used to
        > > > > the Hungarian form of the names, it is quite readable. (Although the
        > > > > recorder used the Latin form of the father's name, Joannes.)
        > > > >
        > > > > The one question I would have for the group is that this record
        > > > > indicates that the wife was Roman Catholic, although her husband was
        > > > > GC. I was under the impression that in a marriage with mixed
        > > > > religions, the children were brought up RC. If that was the case
        > > > (S-R
        > > > > members, please comment), then you might want to also look in the RC
        > > > > records. I did not see Vargony listed in the RC section, so the RC
        > > > > church must have been in another town.
        > > > >
        > > > > Elaine P
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:06 AM, CurtB wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > Sam,
        > > > > > I read it as Anna Sepessy, but maybe we can get Janet Kozlay to
        > > > take
        > > > > > a look and see what she thinks.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Curt B.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > * Help with a name? Line 23 Baptism for a Anna Juhasz. Parents
        > > > are
        > > > > > Joannes
        > > > > > > Juhasz and Anna ? Thank you.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > * Slovakia, Prešov Region Church Books (Hungarian Place Names),
        > > > > > 1592-1906
        > > > > > > * Greek Catholic
        > > > > > > * Várgony
        > > > > > > * Copies of baptisms, marriages, deaths, Inv. č. 1355,
        > > > 1860-1883
        > > > > > > * Image 10 of 286
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > From: Elaine <epowell@>
        > > > > > > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-
        > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 9:21:45 PM
        > > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Sam,
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Is it possible that Janos' father Stefan was married twice? In
        > > > other
        > > > > > > words, Janos' mother was Maria Tomko, who passed away after his
        > > > > > > birth...then Stefan married Barbara Kristofova, and they had
        > > > Maria.
        > > > > > > That would account for why Janos' son was sure they were
        > > > siblings,
        > > > > > > they would have been raised together by Stefan and the second
        > > > > > wife. To
        > > > > > > check this, look to see if there is a death record for Maria
        > > > Tomko
        > > > > > > from the time after Janos' birth until around Maria's birth
        > > > year.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I thought of this because in my family, I discovered that my
        > > > > > > grandfather's father was married before he married my
        > > > grandfather's
        > > > > > > mother. I found the record of the first marriage, and I'm
        > > > positive
        > > > > > > it's my great grandfather, but the microfilmed records stop
        > > > within a
        > > > > > > year after that marriage, which was about 9 years before my
        > > > > > > grandfather was born. (If anyone can recommend where I can find
        > > > > > > Kostolany records for 1895 to 1905, I would be very greatful!)
        > > > The
        > > > > > > next record I have is the ship records showing my grandfather
        > > > > > > immigrating at age 5 in 1908 with his mother (and Maria, a 13
        > > > year
        > > > > > old
        > > > > > > listed as her daughter!) from that town going to the town in
        > > > the US
        > > > > > > where they lived.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Elaine P
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Sam Mag <sammag30@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I am indeed stuck.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I began searching for Janos Juhasz from Drienov who lists on
        > > > his
        > > > > > > > intention
        > > > > > > > papers and his war registration card (under the name of John
        > > > > > Yuhos)
        > > > > > > > his birth
        > > > > > > > of January 13, 1888 in Somos Voiros, Slovakia.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I had his sister Maria's birth, marriage, immigration papers
        > > > so I
        > > > > > > > had the name
        > > > > > > > of her parents to work with. Her parents were listed as Stefan
        > > > > > > > Juhasz and
        > > > > > > > Barbara Kristofova.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I search the Drienov Rk records and found a Janos Juhasz who
        > > > was
        > > > > > > > born in
        > > > > > > > 1889....not too big a deal one year difference but it lists
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > parents as
        > > > > > > > Stefan Juhasz and Maria Tomko.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I thought perhaps they were not siblings and could be
        > > > cousins? I
        > > > > > > > reached out to
        > > > > > > > a living son of Janos Juhasz and he confirmed they were indeed
        > > > > > > > siblings without
        > > > > > > > a doubt. He did not recall the names of Janos' parents though.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I searched the GK records of Vargony at the suggestion of a
        > > > member
        > > > > > > > here and
        > > > > > > > found the birth record of Maria Juhasz (Janos' sister) and the
        > > > > > > > parents were
        > > > > > > > Stefan Juhasz GK and Barbara Kristof RK. (Vargony c.1355 136
        > > > of
        > > > > > > > 167) I searched
        > > > > > > > through this top to bottom as I did the Drienov records and no
        > > > > > Janos
        > > > > > > > Juhasz to
        > > > > > > > be found around this time to these parents. I did find the
        > > > Parents
        > > > > > > > marriage
        > > > > > > > (c.1355 47 of 167) and this document was really amazing as it
        > > > > > showed
        > > > > > > > they were
        > > > > > > > married in America for some reason and then returned shortly
        > > > > > after.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I know there was another sister Barbola Juhas who was born
        > > > May 18,
        > > > > > > > 1901
        > > > > > > > according to her death record here in the U.S. I have her
        > > > Ellis
        > > > > > > > Island paper
        > > > > > > > and it shows her father Stefan still living in Drienov in
        > > > 1920.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > When I spoke to his son he told me he knew there was another
        > > > > > sibling
        > > > > > > > named
        > > > > > > > George that came to the U.S and went back, I have found
        > > > nothing on
        > > > > > > > him either.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I have been working on this for a while now and don't know
        > > > which
        > > > > > way
        > > > > > > > to go. If
        > > > > > > > anyone has some suggestions please let me know. Perhaps
        > > > another
        > > > > > > > town that
        > > > > > > > stored records for this area I could search? Barbara Kristof
        > > > shows
        > > > > > > > her home
        > > > > > > > before drenov as Abrany and I have exhausted this as did
        > > > another
        > > > > > > > from this site
        > > > > > > > helping me.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Thank you once again for all you're help and suggestions.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > From: John <johnqadam@>
        > > > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 9:19:33 PM
        > > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Drienov (Somos)
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I had exactly the same result as you did. That's why I
        > > > suggested
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > 1869
        > > > > > > > Census. Ábrány (Abranovce) Film #2162305 Item 1
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Sam Mag <sammag30@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I checked kokosovce records and the birth records that cover
        > > > > > > > 1841-1868 only go
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > to 1852? Short of the 1869 Census any advise on finding
        > > > > > > > documentation on
        > > > > > > > > Barbara Kristof born around 1864 in Abrany?
        > > > > > > > > * Roman Catholic
        > > > > > > > > * Kakasfalu
        > > > > > > > > * Marriages, deaths, Inv. č. 457, 1774-1890
        > > > > > > >
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