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Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE

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  • Ron
    Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 31, 2010
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      Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started for the different faiths and different regions.

      "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515 by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers according to the appointment of the Trident council."
      and
      "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other faiths in the empire,"

      With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can see how far back those go...

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
      >
      Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
    • Michael Mojher
      Ron, Thanks for the information on record keeping. For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from? A relative of wife did a family genealogy
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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        Ron,
        Thanks for the information on record keeping.
        For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from?
        A relative of wife did a family genealogy that was very extensive and self-published as a book. Her family was from the British Isles. He claims to have followed the family surname back to 1066, when he says surnames began to be used.
        Michael


        From: Ron
        Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:48 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE



        Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started for the different faiths and different regions.

        "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515 by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers according to the appointment of the Trident council."
        and
        "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other faiths in the empire,"

        With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can see how far back those go...

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
        >
        Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Tarkulich
        If anyone cares to pursue a PhD, I am certain there is enough work here for at least 100 Thesis documents. :) Bill ... -- Bill
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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          If anyone cares to pursue a PhD, I am certain there is enough work here
          for at least 100 Thesis documents. :)

          Bill



          On Sun, October 31, 2010 10:48 pm, Ron wrote:
          > Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility
          > and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is
          > risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to
          > government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started
          > for the different faiths and different regions.
          >
          > "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515
          > by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more
          > synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers
          > according to the appointment of the Trident council."
          > and
          > "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other
          > faiths in the empire,"
          >
          > With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you
          > to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At
          > least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can
          > see how far back those go...
          >
          > Ron
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
          > wrote:
          >>
          > Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back
          > to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be
          > used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that
          > yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in
          > Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Bill
        • Ron
          Michael, I deliberately skipped giving the citations, as I remembered the event - the A-H state calling for records to be kept by the church under Maria
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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            Michael,

            I deliberately skipped giving the citations, as I remembered the event - the A-H state calling for records to be kept by the church under Maria Theresa and her son Joseph who reigned (both as king of Hungary. she was not a queen) around the time of our American Revolution. It is interesting that the call for record keeping started long before, as stated in the one quotation.

            This wasn't intended to be a definitive posting, but one leading to an answer. I don't have time at the moment to research and compose a definitive answer I feel confident in.

            If you do a google search on the topic you should come up with the same (or similar) references and draw your own conclusions. Sorry to dissapoint!

            Ron

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ron,
            > Thanks for the information on record keeping.
            > For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from?
            > A relative of wife did a family genealogy that was very extensive and self-published as a book. Her family was from the British Isles. He claims to have followed the family surname back to 1066, when he says surnames began to be used.
            > Michael
            >
            >
            > From: Ron
            > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:48 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE
            >
            >
            >
            > Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started for the different faiths and different regions.
            >
            > "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515 by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers according to the appointment of the Trident council."
            > and
            > "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other faiths in the empire,"
            >
            > With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can see how far back those go...
            >
            > Ron
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
            > >
            > Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Michael Mojher
            Ron, Any clue to an answer is appreciated. Thanks for those. From: Ron Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:04 PM To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-R]
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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              Ron,
              Any clue to an answer is appreciated. Thanks for those.

              From: Ron
              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:04 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Start of church records /MICHALOVCE



              Michael,

              I deliberately skipped giving the citations, as I remembered the event - the A-H state calling for records to be kept by the church under Maria Theresa and her son Joseph who reigned (both as king of Hungary. she was not a queen) around the time of our American Revolution. It is interesting that the call for record keeping started long before, as stated in the one quotation.

              This wasn't intended to be a definitive posting, but one leading to an answer. I don't have time at the moment to research and compose a definitive answer I feel confident in.

              If you do a google search on the topic you should come up with the same (or similar) references and draw your own conclusions. Sorry to dissapoint!

              Ron

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ron,
              > Thanks for the information on record keeping.
              > For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from?
              > A relative of wife did a family genealogy that was very extensive and self-published as a book. Her family was from the British Isles. He claims to have followed the family surname back to 1066, when he says surnames began to be used.
              > Michael
              >
              >
              > From: Ron
              > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:48 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE
              >
              >
              >
              > Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started for the different faiths and different regions.
              >
              > "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515 by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers according to the appointment of the Trident council."
              > and
              > "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other faiths in the empire,"
              >
              > With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can see how far back those go...
              >
              > Ron
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
              > >
              > Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Peter is a well respected researcher in Slovakia http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/sarmany.html Bill ... -- Bill
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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                Peter is a well respected researcher in Slovakia
                http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/sarmany.html
                Bill

                On Mon, November 1, 2010 4:19 pm, Michael Mojher wrote:
                >
                > Ron,
                > Any clue to an answer is appreciated. Thanks for those.
                >
                > From: Ron
                > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:04 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] Start of church records /MICHALOVCE
                >
                >
                >
                > Michael,
                >
                > I deliberately skipped giving the citations, as I remembered the event -
                > the A-H state calling for records to be kept by the church under Maria
                > Theresa and her son Joseph who reigned (both as king of Hungary. she was
                > not a queen) around the time of our American Revolution. It is interesting
                > that the call for record keeping started long before, as stated in the one
                > quotation.
                >
                > This wasn't intended to be a definitive posting, but one leading to an
                > answer. I don't have time at the moment to research and compose a
                > definitive answer I feel confident in.
                >
                > If you do a google search on the topic you should come up with the same
                > (or similar) references and draw your own conclusions. Sorry to
                > dissapoint!
                >
                > Ron
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
                > wrote:
                >>
                >> Ron,
                >> Thanks for the information on record keeping.
                >> For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from?
                >> A relative of wife did a family genealogy that was very extensive and
                >> self-published as a book. Her family was from the British Isles. He
                >> claims to have followed the family surname back to 1066, when he says
                >> surnames began to be used.
                >> Michael
                >>
                >>
                >> From: Ron
                >> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:48 PM
                >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility
                >> and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is
                >> risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to
                >> government decrees... and there are again variations in when they
                >> started for the different faiths and different regions.
                >>
                >> "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515
                >> by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more
                >> synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers
                >> according to the appointment of the Trident council."
                >> and
                >> "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all
                >> other faiths in the empire,"
                >>
                >> With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to
                >> you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of
                >> interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at
                >> LDS, so you can see how far back those go...
                >>
                >> Ron
                >>
                >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                >> >
                >> Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back
                >> to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be
                >> used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that
                >> yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in
                >> Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Bill
              • Ron
                OK, given the history file on my browser, I can confirm the reference Bill proposed is one I used = http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/sarmany.html with my
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  OK, given the history file on my browser, I can confirm the reference Bill proposed is one I used =
                  http://www.centroconsult.sk/genealogy/sarmany.html
                  with my quotation starting about line 8.

                  What I want to read is one of Bill's collected references, a rather large (but worthwhile 2mb) pdf at
                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/Documents/heritage%20quest/hone_dec03%20AH%20BUFFET%20COURSE%202.pdf


                  Another reference that looked interesting but didn't get used this time was at
                  http://www.hungarianvillagefinder.com/cdrom/4steps.html

                  Hope this helps, or at least is interesting!

                  Ron

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Ron,
                  > Any clue to an answer is appreciated. Thanks for those.
                  >
                  > From: Ron
                  > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:04 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [S-R] Start of church records /MICHALOVCE
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Michael,
                  >
                  > I deliberately skipped giving the citations, as I remembered the event - the A-H state calling for records to be kept by the church under Maria Theresa and her son Joseph who reigned (both as king of Hungary. she was not a queen) around the time of our American Revolution. It is interesting that the call for record keeping started long before, as stated in the one quotation.
                  >
                  > This wasn't intended to be a definitive posting, but one leading to an answer. I don't have time at the moment to research and compose a definitive answer I feel confident in.
                  >
                  > If you do a google search on the topic you should come up with the same (or similar) references and draw your own conclusions. Sorry to dissapoint!
                  >
                  > Ron
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ron,
                  > > Thanks for the information on record keeping.
                  > > For my own education can you send me the sources you quoted from?
                  > > A relative of wife did a family genealogy that was very extensive and self-published as a book. Her family was from the British Isles. He claims to have followed the family surname back to 1066, when he says surnames began to be used.
                  > > Michael
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Ron
                  > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:48 PM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [S-R] MICHALOVE/MICHALOVCE
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Assigning surnames is another topic, and when that started for nobility and for peasants varied from region to region, so a general statement is risky. Church records are a bit better, as they started in response to government decrees... and there are again variations in when they started for the different faiths and different regions.
                  > >
                  > > "it has been ordered to keep the register of baptised persons since 1515 by the Church congress in Veszprém, but there were necessary two more synods (1564 and 1611) in Trnava to extend the keeping of registers according to the appointment of the Trident council."
                  > > and
                  > > "1781, the Catholic church was required to keep the records for all other faiths in the empire,"
                  > >
                  > > With all of the conflicting information out there, I will leave it to you to find and confirm the information relevant in your area of interest. At least a large part of the Mihalovce records are on line at LDS, so you can see how far back those go...
                  > >
                  > > Ron
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > Eventually, there is just the limit of the records. They do not got back to Adam and Eve. Each society has a point where surnames started to be used. At what point was that for the Slovaks? I have not learned that yet. The Christian church began with the building of the first church in Nitra in 800. When did the Church begin keeping records?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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