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Re: [S-R] Star of David on Catholic grave

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  • Milan Olle
    Bill et all, especially Micheal. I now reallise I should have started a new thread. Live and learn. I have a picture of the tombstone if you want to see it I
    Message 1 of 58 , Oct 4, 2010
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      Bill et all, especially Micheal. I now reallise I should have started a new thread. Live and learn. I have a picture of the tombstone if you want to see it I can post it if you tell me how do I post it.
       
      Date of death was about 1975 (don't have picture in front of me). That's only 36 years ago. You are right. I heard it took about 10 years to raise money for a headstone. My grandmother died in 2003 and she still doesn't have anything written on her stone next to his in Pcoline. The graves postion in the cemetery is very close to the front of the GREEK KATOLIC CHURCH. The graves are organized in rows. My grandfather Terek's tombstone is among other family stones. His parents plot is close by with old iron crosses as markers. I can't honestly answer which religions are buried in this cemetery. I haven't seen any other Jewish symbols in this cemetery if that's what you mean. I have to repeat that the symbol on my grandfathers tomb is small ( approx. half inch by half inch.) The cemetary surrounds the church.
       
      I am glad bill reconfirmed: if you were not of that religion, you could not be buried there.
       
      I know Rusyn people have some strange beliefs. Like my aunt spitting on my lottery tickets when she was visiting from Pcoline. Very embarrassing. What does this Star of David mean to them?
       
      The name of the town is Pcoline pop. approx 500.
       
      According to www.iabsi.com (thank you Bill I can't say that enough) in 1877 (sorry it's the info I have handy right now.) the town was called Pesolina there were 33 Roman Catholics that worshiped in Snina, 667 Greek Catholics that worshipped in Eperjes (Presov?) and 28 Jews that worshipped in Snina. My point is that I don't think that the ratios of the groups have changed much over the years and to my knowledge the Jews still worship in Snina.
       
      Milan

      --- On Mon, 10/4/10, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:


      From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Star of David on Catholic grave
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Monday, October 4, 2010, 8:30 PM


       



      Trying to put this in context of the times.
      What was the year of death, and how old do you estimate the tombstone is?
      (Some stones were placed long after the death. )
      Where was the grave position in the cemetery?
      Was it out of place from the others, or in an organized fashion?
      What religions are buried in this cemetery?
      Where was this cemetery - adjacent to a church? Which faith?
      Did any other stones contain this star?

      What was the name and population of the settlement at that time? Jews
      often, but not always had separate burial grounds. Especially in Catholic
      and Orthodox cemeteries,the grounds were sanctified, to the point that if
      you were not of that religion, you could not be buried there (in "normal"
      times and war does not count.) As you know, unbaptised children are
      buried outside the sanctified grounds. Generalizations are made to be
      broken of course, but they give us a bearing to begin our research with.

      Bill

      On Mon, October 4, 2010 4:17 pm, Michael Mojher wrote:
      > Vladi,
      >
      > That is the question that we are trying to find out. This is not a big
      > Star of David that is the major feature of the gravestone. It is a small
      > one.
      > The fact is this is an Orthodox Catholics grave that has this little Star
      > of David on it. Why?
      >
      >
      > From: Vladimir Linder
      > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:51 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Star of David on Catholic grave
      >
      >
      >
      > Well if there is a star that means 100% Jewish,
      > Why would catholics or orthodox put the star on??
      >
      > Vladi
      >
      > At 12:33 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>Dear Members,
      >>Milan and I have been discussing something he
      >>has found in his family research. We are hoping
      >>someone might have some insight into it.
      >>What baffles me is that on my grandfathers tomb
      >>stone in Slovakia there is a small Star of
      >>David. To my knowledge my family has been
      >>Orthodox Catholic for generations. I tried to
      >>ask my mother and her sisters what his religion
      >>was. They all claim he was Orthodox. I can't
      >>even hint that he might have been Jewish.
      >>
      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
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      --
      Bill










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    • christopher gajda
      there is a St John the Baptist Orthodox Church at 145 Broad St in Perth Amboy, which is part of the ACROD (American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese) You can
      Message 58 of 58 , Oct 19, 2010
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        there is a St John the Baptist Orthodox Church at 145 Broad St in Perth Amboy, which is part of the ACROD (American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese)

        You can read that Church's history on their website:  http://sjacrod.com/
         

        --- On Tue, 10/19/10, jtgen96 <jtgen96@...> wrote:


        From: jtgen96 <jtgen96@...>
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Greek Catholic/Orthodox
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 1:07 PM


         



        Would this history be about the same for other St. John's in the US?

        The complexity of all of this is very difficult for sheltered Americans to process.

        We have a relative for whom we are trying to locate living descendants -- no luck so far, but the search has been interesting.

        This great-uncle was also born in Kijo, Slovakia. He married a sister of grandfather and they immigrated to the US. He became a cantor at St. John's the Baptist in Perth Amboy (1898-1900). Then he went on to become a priest in Fayette County, PA (1910 census -- church unknown), and at St. John the Baptist in Rahway, NJ (1919-1922). He died in 1935 and was buried in the cemetery of St. John the Baptist in Perth Amboy.

        We have corresponded with many eparchies, churches, organizations, etc., but still understand very little of the details.

        Gwen

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Alice-Lorraine von Halle <snowflakefl@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you Bill for the information.  Yes, it is confusing but I must say,
        > interesting.
        > Again,  thanks.
        > Alice
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Alice-Lorraine von Halle <snowflakefl@...>
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 10:38:34 PM
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Greek Catholic/Orthodox
        >
        >  
        > Hello,
        > I have been  reading the various e-mails and still am somewhat confused.  My
        > uncle who lived in Bridgeport, Conn. (born in Kijo, SK)
        > belonged to the "Carpatho Russian Orthodox  Greek Catholic Church of St. John
        > The Baptist" in that city.  I understood that the priest could marry, but only
        > the one time.  Did I misunderstand that?  This church was dedicated in 1946.
        >
        > Thanks for any info.
        > Alice
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 9:59:47 AM
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Greek Catholic/Orthodox
        >
        >  
        > To provide an even more dizzying explanation of the complexities of Greek
        > Catholics in the United States, read the following, written by St. John's
        > of Minneapolis.
        > http://stjohnsminneapolis.webs.com/parishhistory.htm
        > Within in it is written:
        >
        > "Two other changes in the 1930s and 1940s hit St. John’s parishioners
        > hard: first, the Pittsburgh Exarchate began enforcing the celibacy rule
        > for priests as it was envisaged by the papal decree Cum Data Fuerit
        > (1929). A group of priests of the Ruthenian Exarchate dissatisfied by this
        > document gathered together and elected pastor in Bridgeport, CT, Father
        > Orestes Chornock a Bishop of a new Independent Greek Catholic Church. He
        > was consecrated a bishop by the Patriarch of Constantinople, eventually
        > setting his See in Johnstown, PA. This would, in time, be known as The
        > American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Diocese. Then, in the
        > 1940s, St. John’s was ordered to adopt the "new" Gregorian calendar
        > instead of the traditional Julian (in the 20th Century, it was 13 days
        > behind the Gregorian). In 1941 a small number of families formed St.
        > Nicholas Carpatho-Russian Greek Catholic Church just two blocks away from
        > St. John’s. This church, however, did not exist for a long time and some
        > of its members came back to St. John’s, while others joined St. Mary’s
        > Orthodox Church. "
        >
        > In summary, in this case, the Greek Catholics created an "independent"
        > church and switched their allegiance to Constantinople. But the "Greek
        > Catholic" or Ruthenian Catholic rites remained aligned to Rome.
        >
        > Confusing, isn't it?
        >
        > Bill
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >











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