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Re: [S-R] moving from town to town

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  • Ben Sorensen
    Hi Elaine, I doubt that you will find that moment in your research, and the ik suffix is just a diminuitive, nothing more.  The suffix will not tell you who
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 31, 2010
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      Hi Elaine,
      I doubt that you will find that moment in your research, and the ik suffix is
      just a diminuitive, nothing more.  The suffix will not tell you "who came first"
      or who was father and son. It just denotes a smaller something at best.

      They are all related as they are cart and wheel makers, but by blood there is
      little chance of their being relatives.  I don't want to take the wind from your
      sails....
      When I am ok, I am Ben. When bad, Benisko. When Milka feels affectionate, I am
      Benus~ko, Benik, or Benicek (this is more of a borrowed Czech form.) Not one of
      these will designate me as a son.
      Ben




      ________________________________
      From: Elaine <epowell@...>
      To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 11:41:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] moving from town to town

       
      Helene (and anyone else who can share),

      I have a question about the Kolarik name you mentioned. Is it derived
      from the word "kolar" (wheel) the way my grandfather Kollarcsik's is?
      Is the "ik" ending a diminutive the way "csik" is?

      I'm still searching for a point when a "Kollar" father had a son with
      the same given name, leading to the creation of the first "Kollarcsik"
      in my family--and now I'm wondering how Kolariks may be related!

      This is such interesting research!

      Elaine

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Aug 25, 2010, at 5:40 PM, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
      wrote:

      > This is a fascinating topic - helping a friend with his genealogy -
      > a great
      > grandfather
      > settled in a village in Ukraine - Krive Roh - almost to the Russian
      > border near
      > Karkiv. The family was from Liptov and Turiec and eventually had a
      > thriving
      > Slovak village there - they brought in herbs for medicine and
      > saffron, linen
      > and many other things. They built a church and many establishments.
      > sprang up to
      > fill the needs of the villagers - still not clear why they first
      > went, an
      > extremely long and totuous journey, maybe for land? Many went by
      > horse and cart
      > even with infants and small children.
      >
      > Eventually Stalin came into power and some lost their lives -
      > supposedly hung
      > and flayed, others fled back to Slovakia in horse drawn carts - this
      > was a long,
      > long way.
      >
      > It's hard to even conceive of it. It's said on their return Jewish
      > families
      > brought them gold pieces buried in a sugar bowl as they had allowed
      > all faiths
      > to worship in the church they built.
      >
      > Family members became world known experts on fish and on herbs and
      > plants for
      > medicinal use - they traveled the world in the early 1900s.
      >
      > A Slovak who married into the family ( left as a teen ager as he
      > didn't want to
      > sing the Hungarian anthem in his Lutheran School - the police came
      > to imprison
      > him but he had already escaped) returned to build factories in
      > Martin and a big
      > store and he bought the castle in Mosovce where the presidents now
      > summer. He
      > had one of the first cars in Slovakia and maybe the first but in
      > the aftermath
      > of WWII all his holdings were confiscated and he died of a heart
      > attack.
      >
      > A book was recently published about these families - the Kolariks
      > and Ivaskas of
      > Bela-Dulice in Turiec south of Martin. It's fascinating.
      >
      > A good bit is known about migrations to Sub-Carpatho Rus and
      > Croatia, Serbia,
      > Romania and Hungary but I hadn't heard about this one to eastern
      > Ukraine before
      > - goes to show how fascinating genealogy can be with twists and
      > turns and
      > improbable leaps into the unknown.
      >
      > helene
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 2:58:30 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] moving from town to town
      >
      >
      > Jeff,
      > As with any group of people you are going to find a variety of
      > situations that
      > resulted in people moving. In the records you can find that people
      > would often
      > move from house to house, or village to nearby village on a yearly
      > basis. And
      > then back again. This was because often the number of people living
      > at one
      > "address" could be many. The house was occupied by the owning family
      > and
      > immediate family. When they got to be too many there was a move to
      > the barn. Or
      > some other out building. When you see families with ten or more
      > children it
      > wasn't possible for all to live in the house. If an opportunity to
      > move to a
      > better situation came up people and young married couples would move
      > out
      > Then there was the "social circle" of nearby villages. The exchange
      > of people
      > between villages happened most because of marriages for permanent
      > basis. The
      > distance of the "social circle" of course varied. But it has been
      > sighted that
      > most villagers during the 1700 and 1800's lived their lives within
      > 10 miles of
      > their village.
      >
      > The cause for a permanent move was usually a job. This happened for
      > my maternal
      > grandfather's family. We discovered they were house servants. The
      > genealogist
      > pointed out that it was not unusual to have another family "steal"
      > good servants
      > away. These moves were not recorded. Once a tracing had gone cold it
      > was
      > virtually impossible to discover where they went. There were
      > wandering craftsman
      > who would leave their villages for work, but when the "season" was
      > over they
      > would return home. The same held for the "migrant farm laborers"
      > that the
      > Slovaks became early on through out Europe beginning in the 1400's.
      > This was
      > done to "make ends meet" back home. I'm sure that for both groups
      > there was an
      > occasional person who decided not to return home.
      >
      > Most of because we are in the USA because of Slovak immigrant are
      > aware of that
      > permanent relocation. What most people are not aware of is how many
      > Slovaks kept
      > up their history of being emigrants, returning home. Between 1908
      > and 1923
      > 225,000 Slovaks immigrated to the USA. Of that number, 127,600
      > returned home.
      > That is a return rate of 57%. For most the "American Dream" was to
      > be found back
      > home when they were able to buy land. The goal was to be able to
      > return home
      > with $1000 in your pocket. My own family reflects this situation.
      > Great-grandfather Jozef Mojher in the 1880's spent three years
      > working in New
      > York state before he returned home. The money he made it possible
      > for two of his
      > sons and two of his daughters to immigrate permanently to the USA.
      > And when I
      > visited Slovakia for the first time I was told how a great-uncle had
      > come twice
      > to America to work and then return home.
      > So you will find that the movement of people had a broad range of
      > causes.
      > http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g037.htm This is a link to a map that shows
      > immigration from Hungary color coded for each Hungarian County.
      > There is also a
      > scroll down list of the counties and the number that immigrated from
      > it. For me
      > the area in black is where both of my families came from. Those four
      > counties
      > had massive exodus, but also a big return of emigrants. And they
      > changed the
      > social structure not only by buying land, but brining new ideas
      > about democracy
      > back to Hungary.
      >
      > From: jpkostelnik
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:17 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] moving from town to town
      >
      > Just wondering if anyone had any insight into people moving from
      > town to town in
      > the 1700s-1800s? I understand that moving was more common than I
      > previously
      > thought, but was it common to move long distances? Or is it more
      > likely that
      > people only moved around to places in close proximity to their
      > previous
      > homes?....say, maybe a 15-20 mile area? Thanks for any insight.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
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      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

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