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KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK

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  • jpkostelnik
    I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik, Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace of
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
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      I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik, Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does anyone know if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost, and a "Kostz" sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i recently heard that KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong direction)?

      How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move, how far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I could look for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where they may have come from....


      Any suggestions???


      Thanks

      Jeff
    • Margo Smith
      Ahoj, Jeff Order the LDS film for the 1770s urbarial records for the county where Tulcik is.  Look at the list of taxpayers line by line, village by village
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
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        Ahoj, Jeff

        Order the LDS film for the 1770s urbarial records for the county where Tulcik
        is.  Look at the list of taxpayers line by line, village by village and see if
        you find them. Uberi tabellak 1767-1773.

        Also the 1715 tax list is online, so you can try looking there also.

        This is a strategy I have successfully used.  I made a list of all the villages
        where the surname was found in the tax list and then started going through the
        parish registers for those villages.  I found them in the 3rd parish -- turned
        out to be one of the few villages in the county where serfs had the right of
        free movement.  With another family, I found them in the tax list, but the
        extant parish records do not precede the 1780s. 

        Good luck.

        Margo




        ________________________________
        From: jpkostelnik <JPKOSTELNIK@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:31:16 AM
        Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK

         
        I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
        Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace
        of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does anyone know
        if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost, and a "Kostz"
        sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i recently heard that
        KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong direction)?


        How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move, how
        far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I could look
        for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where they may have
        come from....


        Any suggestions???

        Thanks

        Jeff







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jpkostelnik
        thank you!.... do you happen to have the website for the 1715 tax listings? Jeff
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
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          thank you!....

          do you happen to have the website for the 1715 tax listings?

          Jeff

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ahoj, Jeff
          >
          > Order the LDS film for the 1770s urbarial records for the county where Tulcik
          > is.  Look at the list of taxpayers line by line, village by village and see if
          > you find them. Uberi tabellak 1767-1773.
          >
          > Also the 1715 tax list is online, so you can try looking there also.
          >
          > This is a strategy I have successfully used.  I made a list of all the villages
          > where the surname was found in the tax list and then started going through the
          > parish registers for those villages.  I found them in the 3rd parish -- turned
          > out to be one of the few villages in the county where serfs had the right of
          > free movement.  With another family, I found them in the tax list, but the
          > extant parish records do not precede the 1780s. 
          >
          > Good luck.
          >
          > Margo
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: jpkostelnik <JPKOSTELNIK@...>
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:31:16 AM
          > Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK
          >
          >  
          > I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
          > Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace
          > of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does anyone know
          > if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost, and a "Kostz"
          > sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i recently heard that
          > KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong direction)?
          >
          >
          > How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move, how
          > far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I could look
          > for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where they may have
          > come from....
          >
          >
          > Any suggestions???
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Margo Smith
          http://www.arcanum.hu/mol   ________________________________ From: jpkostelnik To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, August 16,
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            http://www.arcanum.hu/mol

             

            ________________________________
            From: jpkostelnik <JPKOSTELNIK@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:59:56 AM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK

             
            thank you!....

            do you happen to have the website for the 1715 tax listings?

            Jeff

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ahoj, Jeff
            >
            > Order the LDS film for the 1770s urbarial records for the county where Tulcik
            > is.  Look at the list of taxpayers line by line, village by village and see if
            >
            > you find them. Uberi tabellak 1767-1773.
            >
            > Also the 1715 tax list is online, so you can try looking there also.
            >
            > This is a strategy I have successfully used.  I made a list of all the
            >villages
            >
            > where the surname was found in the tax list and then started going through the

            > parish registers for those villages.  I found them in the 3rd parish -- turned
            >
            > out to be one of the few villages in the county where serfs had the right of
            > free movement.  With another family, I found them in the tax list, but the
            > extant parish records do not precede the 1780s. 
            >
            > Good luck.
            >
            > Margo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: jpkostelnik <JPKOSTELNIK@...>
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:31:16 AM
            > Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK
            >
            >  
            > I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
            > Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace
            >
            > of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does anyone
            >know
            >
            > if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost, and a "Kostz"
            > sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i recently heard that
            >
            > KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong direction)?
            >
            >
            > How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move, how
            >
            > far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I could look

            > for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where they may have

            > come from....
            >
            >
            > Any suggestions???
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Mojher
            Jeff, Here are the names Tulcik has gone by through its history. Tulcík PO/PV saris. 1773 Tölczek, Tulczik, 1786 Tölcschéd, Tulcik, 1808 Tulcsik,
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
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              Jeff,
              Here are the names Tulcik has gone by through its history.
              Tulcík PO/PV saris.
              1773 Tölczek, Tulczik, 1786 Tölcschéd, Tulcik, 1808 Tulcsik, Tölcséd, Tölcsszék, Tulcík, 1863-1913 Töltszék, 1920 Tulcík, Tilcík, 1927- Tulcík

              I took a look at the Slovak 1995 Census. In Tulcik at that time there were 13 Kostelnik (male form) and 7 Kostelnikova (female form). So it appears the family continued on past 1788 in Tulcik. Name changes happened during the Magyarization period. The Slovak name was changed to be Hungarian. That is where you will often see an "s" in the name becoming "sz". This took place in the middle 1800's.

              Here is where the name Kostelnik was found in Slovakia in 1995. You will note that there are three spellings of the name. The village of Tulcik is under the one with a dialect mark above the "eye". Among all the spelling the name is found in only two places in Presov County; Presov 30@, Tulcik 13@ and Presov again with 2@ of a different spelling. The program gave the alternative spelling of Kostolnik, it was not found in any village in Presov County.
              My road atlas shows Tulcik surrounded by four towns that are 2.5 to 4 km away 1.5 to 2.5 miles. If there was any moving these would be the logical first choices to search. There are no hard and fast rules about families moving. I could not trace my maternal grandfather's family because they were house servants. A genealogist said that servants were often "stolen" by another family. And not evidence of that move is recorded. There is also a long history of Slovaks going to other countries in the "off season" to be migrant workers.
              Priezvisko KOSTELNÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 1×, celkový pocet lokalít: 1, v lokalitách:
              STARÉ, okr. MICHALOVCE - 1×;

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Priezvisko KOSTELNÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 275×, celkový pocet lokalít: 74, najcastejsie výskyty v lokalitách:
              PRESOV, okr. PRESOV - 30×;
              MERNÍK, okr. VRANOV NAD TOPLOU - 25×;
              SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 25×;
              SPISSKÉ TOMÁSOVCE, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 17×;
              TULCÍK, okr. PRESOV - 13×;
              BARDEJOV, okr. BARDEJOV - 9×;
              KRIVÉ, okr. BARDEJOV - 7×;
              LEVOCA, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES (od r. 1996 LEVOCA) - 7×;
              ZÁPAD (obec KOSICE), okr. KOSICE - 7×;
              VRANOV NAD TOPLOU, okr. VRANOV NAD TOPLOU - 6×;
              ...
              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Priezvisko KOSTELNIK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 8×, celkový pocet lokalít: 6, v lokalitách:
              LOVCICA (obec LOVCICA-TRUBÍN), okr. ZIAR NAD HRONOM - 2×;
              PRESOV, okr. PRESOV - 2×;
              LEVOCA, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES (od r. 1996 LEVOCA) - 1×;
              SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 1×;
              ZLATÁ BANA, okr. PRESOV - 1×;
              STARÉ MESTO (obec KOSICE), okr. KOSICE - 1×;



              From: jpkostelnik
              Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:31 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK



              I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik, Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any trace of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does anyone know if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost, and a "Kostz" sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i recently heard that KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong direction)?

              How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move, how far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I could look for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where they may have come from....

              Any suggestions???

              Thanks

              Jeff





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nancy Hayes
              My Grandparents and their three kids moved around a lot due to wherever the work was for Grandpa. He was a coppersmith from Austria. When they moved to the
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
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                My Grandparents and their three kids moved around a lot due to wherever the
                work was for Grandpa. He was a coppersmith from Austria. When they moved
                to the USA, there wasn't any work for him in St. Louis, so he went to
                California where there was work for a while, then he returned home.



                Now my mom's Italian side of the family; they all stayed in the same town
                they were born and married and died in, unless they came to the USA to work
                in the coal mines; some stayed here, but most returned to Italy.



                Nancy



                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of jpkostelnik
                Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 9:31 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK





                I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
                Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any
                trace of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does
                anyone know if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost,
                and a "Kostz" sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i
                recently heard that KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong
                direction)?

                How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move,
                how far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I
                could look for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where
                they may have come from....

                Any suggestions???

                Thanks

                Jeff





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Janet Kozlay
                Jeff, people moved around more than we tend to think they did, though you see it most often among tradesmen and craftsmen. Villages in the general area of
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jeff, people moved around more than we tend to think they did, though you
                  see it most often among tradesmen and craftsmen. Villages in the general
                  area of Tulcik that have Roman Catholic records are Kokosovce, Pusovce, and
                  Kapusany. However, those records do not go any earlier than the ones you
                  found for Tulcik. In fact, they begin a little later than the ones from
                  Tulcik. You may have reached a dead end.



                  Janet





                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of jpkostelnik
                  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:31 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK





                  I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
                  Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any
                  trace of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does
                  anyone know if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost,
                  and a "Kostz" sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i
                  recently heard that KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong
                  direction)?

                  How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move,
                  how far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I
                  could look for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where
                  they may have come from....

                  Any suggestions???

                  Thanks

                  Jeff





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Janet Kozlay
                  I think that Jeff is looking for the name prior to 1788. He said he has traced them BACK to 1809 in Tulcik and is asking if they might be found under another
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 16, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think that Jeff is looking for the name prior to 1788. He said he has
                    traced them BACK to 1809 in Tulcik and is asking if they might be found
                    under another name/spelling or in a neighboring village.



                    Name changes (as opposed to spelling variations) were not just a product of
                    Magyarization. They occurred at least as early as the 1600s and were fairly
                    common in the early 1800s. The problem is verifying these name changes.
                    You’re lucky if you find an “alias” or “maskep” in the records, but I think
                    many name changes went unrecorded.



                    Janet



                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:30 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM
                    TULCIK





                    Jeff,
                    Here are the names Tulcik has gone by through its history.
                    Tulcík PO/PV saris.
                    1773 Tölczek, Tulczik, 1786 Tölcschéd, Tulcik, 1808 Tulcsik, Tölcséd,
                    Tölcsszék, Tulcík, 1863-1913 Töltszék, 1920 Tulcík, Tilcík, 1927- Tulcík

                    I took a look at the Slovak 1995 Census. In Tulcik at that time there were
                    13 Kostelnik (male form) and 7 Kostelnikova (female form). So it appears the
                    family continued on past 1788 in Tulcik. Name changes happened during the
                    Magyarization period. The Slovak name was changed to be Hungarian. That is
                    where you will often see an "s" in the name becoming "sz". This took place
                    in the middle 1800's.

                    Here is where the name Kostelnik was found in Slovakia in 1995. You will
                    note that there are three spellings of the name. The village of Tulcik is
                    under the one with a dialect mark above the "eye". Among all the spelling
                    the name is found in only two places in Presov County; Presov 30@, Tulcik
                    13@ and Presov again with 2@ of a different spelling. The program gave the
                    alternative spelling of Kostolnik, it was not found in any village in Presov
                    County.
                    My road atlas shows Tulcik surrounded by four towns that are 2.5 to 4 km
                    away 1.5 to 2.5 miles. If there was any moving these would be the logical
                    first choices to search. There are no hard and fast rules about families
                    moving. I could not trace my maternal grandfather's family because they were
                    house servants. A genealogist said that servants were often "stolen" by
                    another family. And not evidence of that move is recorded. There is also a
                    long history of Slovaks going to other countries in the "off season" to be
                    migrant workers.
                    Priezvisko KOSTELNÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 1×, celkový
                    pocet lokalít: 1, v lokalitách:
                    STARÉ, okr. MICHALOVCE - 1×;

                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                    Priezvisko KOSTELNÍK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 275×, celkový
                    pocet lokalít: 74, najcastejsie výskyty v lokalitách:
                    PRESOV, okr. PRESOV - 30×;
                    MERNÍK, okr. VRANOV NAD TOPLOU - 25×;
                    SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 25×;
                    SPISSKÉ TOMÁSOVCE, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 17×;
                    TULCÍK, okr. PRESOV - 13×;
                    BARDEJOV, okr. BARDEJOV - 9×;
                    KRIVÉ, okr. BARDEJOV - 7×;
                    LEVOCA, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES (od r. 1996 LEVOCA) - 7×;
                    ZÁPAD (obec KOSICE), okr. KOSICE - 7×;
                    VRANOV NAD TOPLOU, okr. VRANOV NAD TOPLOU - 6×;
                    ...
                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                    Priezvisko KOSTELNIK sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 8×, celkový
                    pocet lokalít: 6, v lokalitách:
                    LOVCICA (obec LOVCICA-TRUBÍN), okr. ZIAR NAD HRONOM - 2×;
                    PRESOV, okr. PRESOV - 2×;
                    LEVOCA, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES (od r. 1996 LEVOCA) - 1×;
                    SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPISSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 1×;
                    ZLATÁ BANA, okr. PRESOV - 1×;
                    STARÉ MESTO (obec KOSICE), okr. KOSICE - 1×;

                    From: jpkostelnik
                    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:31 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [S-R] KOSTELNIK, KOSZTELNYIK, KOSTELNYIK, KOSCELNIK...FROM TULCIK

                    I found my ancestors in the LDS pilot database church records for Tulcik,
                    Slovakia. I was able to definitively trace back to about 1809. I lose any
                    trace of the name "Kostelnik" (with various spellings) at about 1788. Does
                    anyone know if any name changes took place around that time? I see a "kost,
                    and a "Kostz" sometimes....could this be an abbreviation for Kostelnik (i
                    recently heard that KOST is slovak for bone....so that may be the wrong
                    direction)?

                    How common was it for families to move from town to town? If they did move,
                    how far would they generally go? I am trying to find this out so that I
                    could look for them in other church records for towns in the vicinity where
                    they may have come from....

                    Any suggestions???

                    Thanks

                    Jeff

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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