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Re: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero

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  • Tom Fox
    John, Thanks! Tom ________________________________ From: John To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      John,

      Thanks!

      Tom




      ________________________________
      From: John <johnqadam@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero


      I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following places based upon phone listings and a 1995 census. None sound like your village.

      Bratislava
      Hrabovec nad Laborcom
      Klenová
      Kolonica
      Senica
      Stakcín
      Snina
      Ladomirov
      Kalná Roztoka
      Michalovce
      Prešov
      Šajdíkove Humence







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Mojher
      Tom, Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, Sue - din - c .
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Tom,
        Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
        Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
        Sudince KA/BC hont.
        1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince


        From: Tom Fox
        Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero



        Mike,

        Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

        Tom

        ________________________________
        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

        Tom,
        Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

        From: Tom Fox
        Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

        Hello Bill,

        Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

        Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

        I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

        There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

        I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

        I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

        I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

        Regards,

        Tom Fox

        ________________________________
        From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

        Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
        have is quite twisted and incorrect.

        There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
        Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
        get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
        your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

        In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
        Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
        Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
        Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
        Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
        country.

        Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
        Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
        most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

        Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
        Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
        Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
        converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

        You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
        success.
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

        Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
        http://www.stevemorse.org/

        Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

        Learn about Rusyns:
        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

        Bill

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Tom Fox
        Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

        My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
        the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
        quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
        He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
        sent to Polish schools.

        A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
        I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
        American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

        Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

        Regards,

        Tom Fox

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Mojher
        Tom, If I am not mistaken, Kirova would be the female form of Kiro. When I searched Kolonica the male form there was Kira. Here are the Census results. This
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Tom,
          If I am not mistaken, Kirova would be the female form of Kiro. When I searched Kolonica the male form there was Kira. Here are the Census results. This Kirova is the female form of Kira.

          Priezvisko KIROVÁ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 55×, celkový počet lokalít: 12, v lokalitách:
          KOLONICA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 26×;
          SNINA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 9×;
          SENICA, okr. SENICA – 6×;
          HRABOVEC NAD LABORCOM, okr. HUMENNÉ – 2×;
          LADOMIROV, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 2×;
          STAKČÍN, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 2×;
          RUŽINOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
          STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
          KALNÁ ROZTOKA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
          KLENOVÁ, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
          MICHALOVCE, okr. MICHALOVCE – 1×;
          PREŠOV, okr. PREŠOV – 1×;

          Priezvisko KIRA sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 47×, celkový počet lokalít: 8, v lokalitách:
          KOLONICA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 25×;
          SNINA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 12×;
          LADOMIROV, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 4×;
          HRABOVEC NAD LABORCOM, okr. HUMENNÉ – 2×;
          KALNÁ ROZTOKA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
          KLENOVÁ, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
          STAKČÍN, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
          ŠACA (obec KOŠICE), okr. KOŠICE – 1×;


          From: Tom Fox
          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:14 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero



          John,

          Thanks!

          Tom

          ________________________________
          From: John <johnqadam@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero

          I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following places based upon phone listings and a 1995 census. None sound like your village.

          Bratislava
          Hrabovec nad Laborcom
          Klenová
          Kolonica
          Senica
          Stakcín
          Snina
          Ladomirov
          Kalná Roztoka
          Michalovce
          Prešov
          Šajdíkove Humence

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Fox
          Mike, Once again, thanks. Tom ________________________________ From: Michael Mojher To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 3,
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Mike,

            Once again, thanks.
            Tom





            ________________________________
            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 11:52:37 AM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero


            Tom,
            Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
            Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
            Sudince KA/BC hont.
            1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

            From: Tom Fox
            Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

            Mike,

            Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

            Tom

            ________________________________
            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

            Tom,
            Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

            From: Tom Fox
            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

            Hello Bill,

            Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

            Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

            I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

            There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

            I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

            I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

            I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

            Regards,

            Tom Fox

            ________________________________
            From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

            Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
            have is quite twisted and incorrect.

            There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
            Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
            get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
            your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

            In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
            Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
            Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
            Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
            Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
            country.

            Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
            Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
            most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
            http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

            Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
            Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
            Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
            converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

            You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
            success.
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

            Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
            http://www.stevemorse.org/

            Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

            Learn about Rusyns:
            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

            Bill

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Tom Fox
            Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

            My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
            the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
            quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
            He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
            sent to Polish schools.

            A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
            I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
            American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

            Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

            Regards,

            Tom Fox

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Betty Kleimann
            i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area?   thanks
              --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:


              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM


               



              Tom,
              Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
              Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
              Sudince KA/BC hont.
              1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

              From: Tom Fox
              Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

              Mike,

              Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

              Tom

              ________________________________
              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

              Tom,
              Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

              From: Tom Fox
              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

              Hello Bill,

              Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

              Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

              I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

              There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

              I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

              I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

              I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

              Regards,

              Tom Fox

              ________________________________
              From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

              Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
              have is quite twisted and incorrect.

              There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
              Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
              get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
              your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

              In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
              Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
              Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
              Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
              Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
              country.

              Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
              Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
              most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
              http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

              Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
              Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
              Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
              converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

              You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
              success.
              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

              Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
              http://www.stevemorse.org/

              Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

              Learn about Rusyns:
              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

              Bill

              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Tom Fox
              Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

              My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
              the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
              quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
              He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
              sent to Polish schools.

              A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
              I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
              American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

              Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

              Regards,

              Tom Fox

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

              To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Janet Kozlay
              Roman Catholic records for Nagy-Brezsnyicze in old northern Zemplen are with Sztropko, now Stropkov, on line 1700-1897. Greek Catholic records are with
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Roman Catholic records for Nagy-Brezsnyicze in old northern Zemplen are with Sztropko, now Stropkov, on line 1700-1897.

                Greek Catholic records are with Minyocz, now Minovce, on line 1842-1919.



                I do hope you’re right and you find him.



                Janet





                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Betty Kleimann
                Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:18 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] help






                i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> > wrote:

                From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> >
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM



                Tom,
                Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                Sudince KA/BC hont.
                1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                From: Tom Fox
                Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                Mike,

                Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                Tom

                ________________________________
                From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> >
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                Tom,
                Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                From: Tom Fox
                Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                Hello Bill,

                Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                Regards,

                Tom Fox

                ________________________________
                From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@... <mailto:bill.tarkulich%40iabsi.com> >
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                country.

                Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                success.
                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                http://www.stevemorse.org/

                Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                Learn about Rusyns:
                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                Bill

                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                Behalf Of Tom Fox
                Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                sent to Polish schools.

                A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                Regards,

                Tom Fox

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links

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              • Ben Sorensen
                Hey there- Sudince would be said Soo-deen-tse with the last syllable being close to say but without the hard y at the end. soo- to match look and deen-
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                  Ben




                  ________________________________
                  From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                  Subject: [S-R] help

                   

                  i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area?   thanks
                  --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                   

                  Tom,
                  Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                  Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                  Sudince KA/BC hont.
                  1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                  From: Tom Fox
                  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                  Mike,

                  Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                  Tom

                  ________________________________
                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                  Tom,
                  Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                  From: Tom Fox
                  Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                  Hello Bill,

                  Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                  Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                  I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                  There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                  I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                  I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                  I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                  Regards,

                  Tom Fox

                  ________________________________
                  From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                  Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                  have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                  There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                  Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                  get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                  your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                  In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                  Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                  Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                  Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                  Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                  country.

                  Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                  Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                  most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                  Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                  Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                  Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                  converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                  You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                  success.
                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                  Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                  http://www.stevemorse.org/

                  Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                  Learn about Rusyns:
                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                  Bill

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Tom Fox
                  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                  My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                  the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                  quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                  He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                  sent to Polish schools.

                  A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                  I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                  American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                  Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                  Regards,

                  Tom Fox

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Michael Mojher
                  Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation. Accent on the 1st or 2nd? From:
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                    Accent on the 1st or 2nd?


                    From: Ben Sorensen
                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                    Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                    Ben

                    ________________________________
                    From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                    Subject: [S-R] help



                    i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                    --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM



                    Tom,
                    Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                    Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                    Sudince KA/BC hont.
                    1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                    From: Tom Fox
                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                    Mike,

                    Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                    Tom

                    ________________________________
                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                    Tom,
                    Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                    From: Tom Fox
                    Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                    Hello Bill,

                    Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                    Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                    I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                    There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                    I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                    I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                    I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                    Regards,

                    Tom Fox

                    ________________________________
                    From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                    Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                    have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                    There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                    Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                    get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                    your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                    In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                    Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                    Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                    Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                    Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                    country.

                    Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                    Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                    most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                    Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                    Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                    Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                    converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                    You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                    success.
                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                    Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                    http://www.stevemorse.org/

                    Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                    Learn about Rusyns:
                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                    Bill

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Tom Fox
                    Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                    My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                    the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                    quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                    He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                    sent to Polish schools.

                    A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                    I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                    American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                    Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                    Regards,

                    Tom Fox

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ben Sorensen
                    Sorry Mike this is Ben :-) In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                      In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS.  When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                      Ben




                      ________________________________
                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                       
                      Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                      Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                      From: Ben Sorensen
                      Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                      Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                      Ben

                      ________________________________
                      From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                      Subject: [S-R] help

                      i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                      --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                      Tom,
                      Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                      Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                      Sudince KA/BC hont.
                      1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                      From: Tom Fox
                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      Mike,

                      Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                      Tom

                      ________________________________
                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      Tom,
                      Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                      From: Tom Fox
                      Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      Hello Bill,

                      Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                      Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                      I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                      There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                      I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                      I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                      I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                      Regards,

                      Tom Fox

                      ________________________________
                      From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                      have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                      There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                      Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                      get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                      your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                      In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                      Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                      Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                      Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                      Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                      country.

                      Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                      Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                      most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                      Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                      Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                      Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                      converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                      You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                      success.
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                      Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                      http://www.stevemorse.org/

                      Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                      Learn about Rusyns:
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                      Bill

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Tom Fox
                      Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                      the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                      quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                      He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                      sent to Polish schools.

                      A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                      I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                      American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                      Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                      Regards,

                      Tom Fox

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                    • Michael Mojher
                      Sorry Ben for the Bill. So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                        So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                        I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                        As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                        Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                        Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?


                        From: Ben Sorensen
                        Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                        Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                        In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                        Ben

                        ________________________________
                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] help


                        Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                        Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                        From: Ben Sorensen
                        Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                        Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                        Ben

                        ________________________________
                        From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                        Subject: [S-R] help

                        i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                        --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                        Tom,
                        Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                        Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                        Sudince KA/BC hont.
                        1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                        From: Tom Fox
                        Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                        Mike,

                        Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                        Tom

                        ________________________________
                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                        Tom,
                        Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                        From: Tom Fox
                        Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                        Hello Bill,

                        Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                        Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                        I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                        There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                        I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                        I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                        I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                        Regards,

                        Tom Fox

                        ________________________________
                        From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                        Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                        have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                        There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                        Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                        get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                        your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                        In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                        Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                        Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                        Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                        Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                        country.

                        Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                        Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                        most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                        Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                        Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                        Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                        converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                        You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                        success.
                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                        Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                        http://www.stevemorse.org/

                        Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                        Learn about Rusyns:
                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                        Bill

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Tom Fox
                        Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                        My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                        the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                        quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                        He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                        sent to Polish schools.

                        A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                        I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                        American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                        Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                        Regards,

                        Tom Fox

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        ------------------------------------

                        To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ben Sorensen
                        Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind... _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_ Many- actually.  The grammar for
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jul 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind...
                          _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_

                          Many- actually.  The grammar for pure Slovak is extensive and almost never changes according to the models. There are three genders, and each gender has a model word to explain the 14 declentions- 7 singular, and 7 plural.  Some have built in exceptions, and foreign words present thier own problems, but the rules are everstanding. This is why Slovak is considered an INFLECTED language.
                          Also, the pronunciation of letters NEVER changes, in stark contrast to English. Bernolak's rule, to emphasise this, said "write it how you hear it." (This rule doesn't exactly apply anymore...)

                          _a dialect called Goral_
                          And just south and often surrounding this dialect you will find Spis, Liptov, and Saris. O yes, and Rusyn....  Just to make it even more fun :-) Some of the dialects "bleed" into the other areas... and Saris seems to be the most used for "eastern dialects" in Slovak media- but I have only experience and no numbers to verify this.

                          _I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia._

                          The people in Central Slovakia would say that the pure Slovak accent is dissappearing- replaced by the Bratislava accent. You can still hear the differences when travelling in SK- much like the difference between Massachusettes and North Carolina.

                          _ It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?_

                          There is no all-encompassing rules to the dialects on the whole.  You can find some that are dialect-specific... but it is the USE (that almost seems to be discretionary) and application of those rules that can also tell someone from which village they are from. The dialects differ from pure Slovak and from each other in pronunciation, grammar, syntax, and thier own words.  Podpolanie would say that "They are" this way: Oni sa.... In Slovak: Oni su....  The Slovak word for potato is zemiak. In Spis: grula. L'avica (a political LEFT) and lavica (a writing desk) are almost indistinguishable in BA, but in Zvolenska Slatina you can hear how a L' is supposed to sound.


                          How do I see the word? :-) Predsa, po slovensky! :-) I see Slovak as the most beautiful language, and Podpoliansky as the most beautiful incarnation of it. BTW- the Slovaks call a German "nemec."  It comes from the word for mumbler or gibberish- speaker. When Germans spoke, they didn't understand the "gibberish," and said that the people were "nemi..." (unintelligble). Nemi-nemec-Nemecko (Germany in Slovak). :-) Fun fact.
                          Ben


                           


                           



                          ________________________________
                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 1:17:50 AM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                           
                          Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                          So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                          I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                          As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                          Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                          Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?

                          From: Ben Sorensen
                          Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                          Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                          In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                          Ben

                          ________________________________
                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                          Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                          Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                          From: Ben Sorensen
                          Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                          Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                          Ben

                          ________________________________
                          From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                          Subject: [S-R] help

                          i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                          --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                          Tom,
                          Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                          Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                          Sudince KA/BC hont.
                          1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                          From: Tom Fox
                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          Mike,

                          Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                          Tom

                          ________________________________
                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          Tom,
                          Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                          From: Tom Fox
                          Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          Hello Bill,

                          Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                          Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                          I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                          There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                          I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                          I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                          I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                          Regards,

                          Tom Fox

                          ________________________________
                          From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                          have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                          There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                          Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                          get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                          your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                          In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                          Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                          Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                          Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                          Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                          country.

                          Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                          Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                          most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                          http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                          Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                          Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                          Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                          converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                          You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                          success.
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                          Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                          http://www.stevemorse.org/

                          Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                          Learn about Rusyns:
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                          Bill

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Tom Fox
                          Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                          the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                          quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                          He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                          sent to Polish schools.

                          A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                          I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                          American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                          Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                          Regards,

                          Tom Fox

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------------------------------

                          To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael Mojher
                          Ben, Thanks for the language lesson. The subject arose because my niece-in-law who is from Presov just had a baby girl. Lydia s intent is to raise her
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 5, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ben,
                            Thanks for the language lesson.
                            The subject arose because my niece-in-law who is from Presov just had a baby girl. Lydia's intent is to raise her bi-lingual. I wish my parents had done that. So the Slovak language was on my mind.


                            From: Ben Sorensen
                            Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:38 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                            Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind...
                            _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_

                            Many- actually. The grammar for pure Slovak is extensive and almost never changes according to the models. There are three genders, and each gender has a model word to explain the 14 declentions- 7 singular, and 7 plural. Some have built in exceptions, and foreign words present thier own problems, but the rules are everstanding. This is why Slovak is considered an INFLECTED language.
                            Also, the pronunciation of letters NEVER changes, in stark contrast to English. Bernolak's rule, to emphasise this, said "write it how you hear it." (This rule doesn't exactly apply anymore...)

                            _a dialect called Goral_
                            And just south and often surrounding this dialect you will find Spis, Liptov, and Saris. O yes, and Rusyn.... Just to make it even more fun :-) Some of the dialects "bleed" into the other areas... and Saris seems to be the most used for "eastern dialects" in Slovak media- but I have only experience and no numbers to verify this.

                            _I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia._

                            The people in Central Slovakia would say that the pure Slovak accent is dissappearing- replaced by the Bratislava accent. You can still hear the differences when travelling in SK- much like the difference between Massachusettes and North Carolina.

                            _ It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?_

                            There is no all-encompassing rules to the dialects on the whole. You can find some that are dialect-specific... but it is the USE (that almost seems to be discretionary) and application of those rules that can also tell someone from which village they are from. The dialects differ from pure Slovak and from each other in pronunciation, grammar, syntax, and thier own words. Podpolanie would say that "They are" this way: Oni sa.... In Slovak: Oni su.... The Slovak word for potato is zemiak. In Spis: grula. L'avica (a political LEFT) and lavica (a writing desk) are almost indistinguishable in BA, but in Zvolenska Slatina you can hear how a L' is supposed to sound.

                            How do I see the word? :-) Predsa, po slovensky! :-) I see Slovak as the most beautiful language, and Podpoliansky as the most beautiful incarnation of it. BTW- the Slovaks call a German "nemec." It comes from the word for mumbler or gibberish- speaker. When Germans spoke, they didn't understand the "gibberish," and said that the people were "nemi..." (unintelligble). Nemi-nemec-Nemecko (Germany in Slovak). :-) Fun fact.
                            Ben





                            ________________________________
                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 1:17:50 AM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] help


                            Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                            So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                            I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                            As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                            Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                            Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?

                            From: Ben Sorensen
                            Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                            Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                            In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                            Ben

                            ________________________________
                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                            Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                            Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                            From: Ben Sorensen
                            Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                            Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                            Ben

                            ________________________________
                            From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                            Subject: [S-R] help

                            i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                            --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                            Tom,
                            Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                            Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                            Sudince KA/BC hont.
                            1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                            From: Tom Fox
                            Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Mike,

                            Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                            Tom

                            ________________________________
                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Tom,
                            Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                            From: Tom Fox
                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Hello Bill,

                            Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                            Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                            I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                            There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                            I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                            I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                            I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                            Regards,

                            Tom Fox

                            ________________________________
                            From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                            have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                            There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                            Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                            get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                            your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                            In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                            Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                            Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                            Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                            Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                            country.

                            Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                            Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                            most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                            http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                            Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                            Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                            Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                            converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                            You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                            success.
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                            Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                            http://www.stevemorse.org/

                            Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                            Learn about Rusyns:
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                            Bill

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Tom Fox
                            Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                            the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                            quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                            He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                            sent to Polish schools.

                            A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                            I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                            American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                            Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                            Regards,

                            Tom Fox

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                          • Betty Kleimann
                            i am wondering about a child my great grandfather fathered. she was in pa and they say my grandfather came here to visit her, how would i find that out. would
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jul 8, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              i am wondering about a child my great grandfather fathered. she was in pa and they say my grandfather came here to visit her, how would i find that out. would he come by ship? how would he come?  how would i find anything about her? i am puzzled right now. everything is on hold because i can't find any more info on him and nothing at all on my grandmother who was from what is now known as the czech republic.  i don't know which way to turn. i am thinking of making a trip to d.c. and seeing what i can find out at the archives and at immigration. is that a good idea? thanks betty

                              --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:


                              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM


                               



                              Tom,
                              Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                              Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                              Sudince KA/BC hont.
                              1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                              From: Tom Fox
                              Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                              Mike,

                              Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                              Tom

                              ________________________________
                              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                              Tom,
                              Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                              From: Tom Fox
                              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                              Hello Bill,

                              Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                              Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                              I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                              There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                              I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                              I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                              I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                              Regards,

                              Tom Fox

                              ________________________________
                              From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                              Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                              Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                              have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                              There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                              Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                              get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                              your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                              In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                              Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                              Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                              Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                              Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                              country.

                              Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                              Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                              most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                              http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                              Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                              Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                              Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                              converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                              You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                              success.
                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                              Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                              http://www.stevemorse.org/

                              Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                              Learn about Rusyns:
                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                              Bill

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Tom Fox
                              Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                              My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                              the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                              quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                              He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                              sent to Polish schools.

                              A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                              I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                              American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                              Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                              Regards,

                              Tom Fox

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              ------------------------------------

                              To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                              To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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