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RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

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  • Bill Tarkulich
    Hello Tom. Let s start with getting the facts. I think the information you have is quite twisted and incorrect. There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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      Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
      have is quite twisted and incorrect.

      There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
      Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
      get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
      your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

      In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
      Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
      Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
      Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
      Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
      country.

      Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
      Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
      most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

      Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
      Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
      Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
      converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

      You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
      success.
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

      Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
      http://www.stevemorse.org/

      Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

      Learn about Rusyns:
      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm


      Bill


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Tom Fox
      Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

      My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
      the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
      quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
      He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
      sent to Polish schools.

      A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
      I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
      American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

      Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

      Regards,

      Tom Fox





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • haluska
      Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let s see what we can find. Dennis
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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        Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what we can find.

        Dennis

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:
        >
        > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
        >
        > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.
        >
        > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Tom Fox
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Tom Fox
        Kindest thanks, Tom ________________________________ From: haluska To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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          Kindest thanks,

          Tom




          ________________________________
          From: haluska <ddhalusker@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero


          Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what we can find.

          Dennis

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:
          >
          > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
          >
          > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.
          >
          > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Tom Fox
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • haluska
          Tom, I am not having much luck right now....fill in some gaps as Bill suggests if you could please. Dennis
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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            Tom,

            I am not having much luck right now....fill in some gaps as Bill suggests if you could please.

            Dennis

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:
            >
            > Kindest thanks,
            >
            > Tom
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: haluska <ddhalusker@...>
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
            > Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
            >
            >
            > Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what we can find.
            >
            > Dennis
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
            > >
            > > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
            > >
            > > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.
            > >
            > > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > Tom Fox
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • John
            I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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              I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following places based upon phone listings and a 1995 census. None sound like your village.

              Bratislava
              Hrabovec nad Laborcom
              Klenová
              Kolonica
              Senica
              Stakcín
              Snina
              Ladomirov
              Kalná Roztoka
              Michalovce
              Prešov
              Šajdíkove Humence
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Dennis, I presume the dna test deduces ethnicity. Hmm. Most of us have ancestors who were ostensibly secret . That never stopped us before. You are pursuing
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 27, 2010
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                Dennis,

                I presume the dna test deduces ethnicity. Hmm.

                Most of us have ancestors who were ostensibly "secret". That never stopped
                us before.
                You are pursuing a surname-search strategy which is, in most cases, very
                ineffective. You need a village name.

                You can provide a huge amount of help in narrowing down his geographic
                region, by providing these clues:
                Given name,
                Given names of children
                Estimated year of birth
                Language spoken
                Religion

                What "naturalization papers" do you speak of? The certificate? First
                papers? Second papers? Certificates are long known to be unreliable
                sources of information, for ceremonial purposes only.

                With what you have given, there will be little success in cherry picking.
                You'll need to double down your research effort to get the answers. It will
                take time, but you can be successful if you are motivated.


                Bill


                -----Original Message-----
                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of haluska
                Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:49 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero

                Tom,

                I am not having much luck right now....fill in some gaps as Bill suggests if
                you could please.

                Dennis

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:
                >
                > Kindest thanks,
                >
                > Tom
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: haluska <ddhalusker@...>
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
                > Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
                >
                >
                > Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what we
                can find.
                >
                > Dennis
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
                > >
                > > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ
                using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather
                secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek
                Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized
                G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
                > >
                > > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only
                placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by
                an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.
                > >
                > > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to
                search?
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > Tom Fox
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                ------------------------------------

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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              • haluska
                Bill, With all due respect and much thought..... When I first started searching for my family I had nothing more than a funeral card. Everyone had already died
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 28, 2010
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                  Bill,

                  With all due respect and much thought.....

                  When I first started searching for my family I had nothing more than a funeral card.

                  Everyone had already died and my information was 3rd.hand at best.

                  While having complete information would be ideal. Sometimes you do have to "Cherry Pick".

                  My G-Grandfather's name was butchered,he never knew his birthday and from the records I have collected on him he even forgot the name of the ship he came over on.

                  Nobody ever asked the questions we ask today,If they did are Greats at times did not want to speak about it.

                  This I am sure you can agree with?

                  His own marriage license even has "Karoly"(Polish) as his first name when it was Vasil.

                  His passenger record has Lazslo(Hungarian).....

                  He went by Charles.

                  Vasil and his Brother Michal never knew whom was the older brother.
                  (The name Vasil suggests he was as his Father was Vasil also)

                  Many people tried to discourage me from continuing my search with what I had to go on but I persisted. (Ref. Message #18796 or search Haluska Funeral Card)

                  Earlier posts were "Purged".

                  Playing with the search tools available ie:Fuzzy searches,sounds like searches etc. are powerful tools that retrieve at times amazing results.

                  It depends on how much time you have to cherry pick and it is just an alternate learning process.

                  Yes,I agree that further information would be helpful but my success is proof that there are alternatives.

                  I thank you and the entire Slovak-Roots Family for what I have learned along the way.

                  Just a stubborn Rusyn,

                  Dennis

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dennis,
                  >
                  > I presume the dna test deduces ethnicity. Hmm.
                  >
                  > Most of us have ancestors who were ostensibly "secret". That never stopped
                  > us before.
                  > You are pursuing a surname-search strategy which is, in most cases, very
                  > ineffective. You need a village name.
                  >
                  > You can provide a huge amount of help in narrowing down his geographic
                  > region, by providing these clues:
                  > Given name,
                  > Given names of children
                  > Estimated year of birth
                  > Language spoken
                  > Religion
                  >
                  > What "naturalization papers" do you speak of? The certificate? First
                  > papers? Second papers? Certificates are long known to be unreliable
                  > sources of information, for ceremonial purposes only.
                  >
                  > With what you have given, there will be little success in cherry picking.
                  > You'll need to double down your research effort to get the answers. It will
                  > take time, but you can be successful if you are motivated.
                  >
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of haluska
                  > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:49 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > I am not having much luck right now....fill in some gaps as Bill suggests if
                  > you could please.
                  >
                  > Dennis
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Kindest thanks,
                  > >
                  > > Tom
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: haluska <ddhalusker@>
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what we
                  > can find.
                  > >
                  > > Dennis
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ
                  > using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather
                  > secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek
                  > Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized
                  > G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
                  > > >
                  > > > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only
                  > placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by
                  > an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.
                  > > >
                  > > > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to
                  > search?
                  > > >
                  > > > Regards,
                  > > >
                  > > > Tom Fox
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                  >
                • Bill Tarkulich
                  Hello Dennis, While I do acknowledge your success, getting lucky only works for a very few of us. And it is in this context I pen my comments: There are
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 28, 2010
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                    Hello Dennis,

                    While I do acknowledge your success, "getting lucky" only works for a very
                    few of us. And it is in this context I pen my comments: There are 1,000
                    readers of these messages. Most who "Cherry Pick" find themselves on wild
                    goose chases and give up the search after numerous dead ends. I
                    appreciate your tenacity, though you are the exception, not the rule.

                    If you were to poll this group, or perhaps read back a dozen or so years
                    worth of archives, you'd discover that most of the successful people,
                    myself included, started with exactly what you started with - little
                    information, most of dubious value.

                    Birthdays were never valued 100 years ago, you Saint's name day was. I've
                    seen more bad ship information than I care to remember.

                    Much of what you describe is pretty standard, deductive research methods -
                    I applaud your work and your rigor. You researched language context and
                    variation.

                    I can't comment about earlier posts being "purged" as I wasn't involved in
                    any such action. The only posts I ever purge are SPAM. As a moderator,
                    I'll even let the Off-topic posts stand.

                    What sets up people for failure is
                    a) Drawing conclusions based on unsubstantiated data - assuming your
                    person is the one on the church record, when in fact three people may have
                    that name.

                    b) I see plenty of people who come here hoping that someone has or will do
                    their research for them.

                    c) Expecting to have their family tree built in a month or two of work

                    d) Assuming that all like-surnames are related

                    e) Believe all written data is fact, especially government records

                    f) Assuming there is a "correct" name (surname or given)

                    g) Not understanding the historical context of the times - Information may
                    have been correct during the time in which it was provided

                    h) not willing to invest the time to go to the FHL and look at films, not
                    willing to write to the government for relevant forms.

                    i) They don't realize they have more facts than they realize and fail to
                    share them with other researchers (religion, year of birth, language,
                    family traditions including naming patters, etcetera.)

                    Indeed some people get lucky and clearly you are one. While I am not
                    privy to your specific results, one advantage you have is time and
                    tenacity.

                    I just hope others who get lucky corroborate that data with other data
                    from another independent source. If not, how does one know the data they
                    have "discovered" is correct? It would be a shame for a successor
                    researcher to pickup my work and find it's all throw-away because there
                    are no citations, no evidence of proof and so on. This is the biggest
                    reason why the FHL had to trash their earlier versions of family trees
                    that they allowed to be posted to their web. The results were based on
                    incomplete and inconclusive results.

                    Bill


                    On Mon, June 28, 2010 6:20 am, haluska wrote:
                    > Bill,
                    >
                    > With all due respect and much thought.....
                    >
                    > When I first started searching for my family I had nothing more than a
                    > funeral card.
                    >
                    > Everyone had already died and my information was 3rd.hand at best.
                    >
                    > While having complete information would be ideal. Sometimes you do have to
                    > "Cherry Pick".
                    >
                    > My G-Grandfather's name was butchered,he never knew his birthday and from
                    > the records I have collected on him he even forgot the name of the ship he
                    > came over on.
                    >
                    > Nobody ever asked the questions we ask today,If they did are Greats at
                    > times did not want to speak about it.
                    >
                    > This I am sure you can agree with?
                    >
                    > His own marriage license even has "Karoly"(Polish) as his first name when
                    > it was Vasil.
                    >
                    > His passenger record has Lazslo(Hungarian).....
                    >
                    > He went by Charles.
                    >
                    > Vasil and his Brother Michal never knew whom was the older brother.
                    > (The name Vasil suggests he was as his Father was Vasil also)
                    >
                    > Many people tried to discourage me from continuing my search with what I
                    > had to go on but I persisted. (Ref. Message #18796 or search Haluska
                    > Funeral Card)
                    >
                    > Earlier posts were "Purged".
                    >
                    > Playing with the search tools available ie:Fuzzy searches,sounds like
                    > searches etc. are powerful tools that retrieve at times amazing results.
                    >
                    > It depends on how much time you have to cherry pick and it is just an
                    > alternate learning process.
                    >
                    > Yes,I agree that further information would be helpful but my success is
                    > proof that there are alternatives.
                    >
                    > I thank you and the entire Slovak-Roots Family for what I have learned
                    > along the way.
                    >
                    > Just a stubborn Rusyn,
                    >
                    > Dennis
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Dennis,
                    >>
                    >> I presume the dna test deduces ethnicity. Hmm.
                    >>
                    >> Most of us have ancestors who were ostensibly "secret". That never
                    >> stopped
                    >> us before.
                    >> You are pursuing a surname-search strategy which is, in most cases, very
                    >> ineffective. You need a village name.
                    >>
                    >> You can provide a huge amount of help in narrowing down his geographic
                    >> region, by providing these clues:
                    >> Given name,
                    >> Given names of children
                    >> Estimated year of birth
                    >> Language spoken
                    >> Religion
                    >>
                    >> What "naturalization papers" do you speak of? The certificate? First
                    >> papers? Second papers? Certificates are long known to be unreliable
                    >> sources of information, for ceremonial purposes only.
                    >>
                    >> With what you have given, there will be little success in cherry
                    >> picking.
                    >> You'll need to double down your research effort to get the answers. It
                    >> will
                    >> take time, but you can be successful if you are motivated.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Bill
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
                    >> On
                    >> Behalf Of haluska
                    >> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:49 PM
                    >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
                    >>
                    >> Tom,
                    >>
                    >> I am not having much luck right now....fill in some gaps as Bill
                    >> suggests if
                    >> you could please.
                    >>
                    >> Dennis
                    >>
                    >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > Kindest thanks,
                    >> >
                    >> > Tom
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ________________________________
                    >> > From: haluska <ddhalusker@>
                    >> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >> > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 3:26:05 PM
                    >> > Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > Sounds Rusyn to me. I have nothing to do right now.....let's see what
                    >> we
                    >> can find.
                    >> >
                    >> > Dennis
                    >> >
                    >> > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@> wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth,
                    >> NJ
                    >> using the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather
                    >> secretive quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek
                    >> Orthodox Church. He married a Polish girl. The early children were
                    >> baptized
                    >> G.O. and were not sent to Polish schools.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only
                    >> placename I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper
                    >> probably by
                    >> an American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type
                    >> things.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to
                    >> search?
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Regards,
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Tom Fox
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >>
                    >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    Bill
                  • Tom Fox
                    Hello Bill, Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic. Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 28, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Bill,

                      Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                      Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                      I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                      There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                      I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                      I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                      I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                      Regards,

                      Tom Fox






                      ________________________________
                      From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero


                      Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                      have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                      There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                      Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                      get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                      your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                      In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                      Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                      Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                      Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                      Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                      country.

                      Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                      Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                      most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                      Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                      Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                      Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                      converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                      You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                      success.
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                      Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                      http://www.stevemorse.org/

                      Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                      Learn about Rusyns:
                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                      Bill

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Tom Fox
                      Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                      My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                      the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                      quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                      He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                      sent to Polish schools.

                      A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                      I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                      American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                      Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                      Regards,

                      Tom Fox

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bill Tarkulich
                      I don t see any village that comes phontically close to what you describe either in Slovak or Magyar. Svidnik is a non starter in my book. What years did he
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 28, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I don't see any village that comes phontically close to what you
                        describe either in Slovak or Magyar. Svidnik is a non starter in my
                        book.
                        What years did he live in the village? Any other surnames. Where was
                        his wife from?
                        It may not be Slovakia. Have you tried shtetlseeker?
                        Have you written for an immigration file?


                        Bill


                        On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:41 PM, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:

                        > Hello Bill,
                        >
                        > Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit
                        > hectic.
                        >
                        > Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all
                        > baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.
                        >
                        > I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote
                        > that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his
                        > roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.
                        >
                        > There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned
                        > English, but Russian was his native language.
                        >
                        > I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin
                        > is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was
                        > on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have
                        > shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared
                        > to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time
                        > a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the
                        > only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the
                        > ships's name (Ressetland).
                        >
                        > I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every
                        > family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that
                        > "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of
                        > Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web
                        > site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an
                        > American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a
                        > leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.
                        >
                        > I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group,
                        > and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Tom Fox
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                        >
                        >
                        > Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the
                        > information you
                        > have is quite twisted and incorrect.
                        >
                        > There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...)
                        > and
                        > Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when
                        > did you
                        > get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time
                        > context of
                        > your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.
                        >
                        > In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western
                        > Ukraine.
                        > Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about
                        > the
                        > Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                        > Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and
                        > military.
                        > Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by
                        > respective
                        > country.
                        >
                        > Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is
                        > actually Greek
                        > Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia,
                        > for the
                        > most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic
                        > Rusyn.
                        > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm
                        >
                        > Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                        > Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko
                        > and
                        > Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and
                        > many
                        > converted to Orthodox (Russian.)
                        >
                        > You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you
                        > want
                        > success.
                        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
                        >
                        > Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                        > http://www.stevemorse.org/
                        >
                        > Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm
                        >
                        > Learn about Rusyns:
                        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm
                        >
                        > Bill
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                        > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Tom Fox
                        > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                        >
                        > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth,
                        > NJ using
                        > the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather
                        > secretive
                        > quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox
                        > Church.
                        > He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and
                        > were not
                        > sent to Polish schools.
                        >
                        > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only
                        > placename
                        > I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                        > American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type
                        > things.
                        >
                        > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to
                        > search?
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Tom Fox
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                        > to
                        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                        > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                        > ! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Michael Mojher
                        Tom, Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region. From: Tom Fox Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM To:
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 29, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Tom,
                          Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.


                          From: Tom Fox
                          Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero



                          Hello Bill,

                          Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                          Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                          I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                          There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                          I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                          I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                          I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                          Regards,

                          Tom Fox

                          ________________________________
                          From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                          have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                          There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                          Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                          get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                          your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                          In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                          Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                          Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                          Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                          Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                          country.

                          Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                          Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                          most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                          http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                          Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                          Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                          Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                          converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                          You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                          success.
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                          Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                          http://www.stevemorse.org/

                          Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                          Learn about Rusyns:
                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                          Bill

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Tom Fox
                          Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                          My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                          the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                          quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                          He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                          sent to Polish schools.

                          A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                          I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                          American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                          Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                          Regards,

                          Tom Fox

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------------------------------

                          To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Tom Fox
                          Mike, Thanks! How do you think Sudince might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak s lips? Tom ________________________________ From: Michael
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mike,

                            Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                            Tom




                            ________________________________
                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero


                            Tom,
                            Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                            From: Tom Fox
                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Hello Bill,

                            Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                            Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                            I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                            There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                            I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                            I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                            I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                            Regards,

                            Tom Fox

                            ________________________________
                            From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                            Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                            have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                            There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                            Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                            get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                            your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                            In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                            Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                            Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                            Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                            Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                            country.

                            Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                            Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                            most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                            http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                            Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                            Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                            Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                            converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                            You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                            success.
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                            Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                            http://www.stevemorse.org/

                            Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                            Learn about Rusyns:
                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                            Bill

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Tom Fox
                            Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                            My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                            the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                            quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                            He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                            sent to Polish schools.

                            A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                            I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                            American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                            Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                            Regards,

                            Tom Fox

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            ------------------------------------

                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tom Fox
                            Bill, Thanks for the thoughts. Will go to work on several fronts. Tom ________________________________ From: Bill Tarkulich To:
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bill,

                              Thanks for the thoughts. Will go to work on several fronts.

                              Tom




                              ________________________________
                              From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                              To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 8:52:17 PM
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero


                              I don't see any village that comes phontically close to what you
                              describe either in Slovak or Magyar. Svidnik is a non starter in my
                              book.
                              What years did he live in the village? Any other surnames. Where was
                              his wife from?
                              It may not be Slovakia. Have you tried shtetlseeker?
                              Have you written for an immigration file?

                              Bill

                              On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:41 PM, Tom Fox <tomassionnach@...> wrote:

                              > Hello Bill,
                              >
                              > Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit
                              > hectic.
                              >
                              > Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all
                              > baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.
                              >
                              > I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote
                              > that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his
                              > roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.
                              >
                              > There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned
                              > English, but Russian was his native language.
                              >
                              > I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin
                              > is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was
                              > on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have
                              > shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared
                              > to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time
                              > a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the
                              > only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the
                              > ships's name (Ressetland).
                              >
                              > I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every
                              > family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that
                              > "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of
                              > Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web
                              > site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an
                              > American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a
                              > leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.
                              >
                              > I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group,
                              > and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Tom Fox
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the
                              > information you
                              > have is quite twisted and incorrect.
                              >
                              > There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...)
                              > and
                              > Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when
                              > did you
                              > get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time
                              > context of
                              > your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.
                              >
                              > In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western
                              > Ukraine.
                              > Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about
                              > the
                              > Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                              > Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and
                              > military.
                              > Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by
                              > respective
                              > country.
                              >
                              > Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is
                              > actually Greek
                              > Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia,
                              > for the
                              > most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic
                              > Rusyn.
                              > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm
                              >
                              > Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                              > Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko
                              > and
                              > Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and
                              > many
                              > converted to Orthodox (Russian.)
                              >
                              > You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you
                              > want
                              > success.
                              > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm
                              >
                              > Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                              > http://www.stevemorse.org/
                              >
                              > Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                              > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm
                              >
                              > Learn about Rusyns:
                              > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                              > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > Behalf Of Tom Fox
                              > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                              >
                              > My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth,
                              > NJ using
                              > the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather
                              > secretive
                              > quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox
                              > Church.
                              > He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and
                              > were not
                              > sent to Polish schools.
                              >
                              > A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only
                              > placename
                              > I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                              > American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type
                              > things.
                              >
                              > Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to
                              > search?
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Tom Fox
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                              > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
                              > to
                              > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                              > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                              > ! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tom Fox
                              John, Thanks! Tom ________________________________ From: John To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                John,

                                Thanks!

                                Tom




                                ________________________________
                                From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
                                Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero


                                I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following places based upon phone listings and a 1995 census. None sound like your village.

                                Bratislava
                                Hrabovec nad Laborcom
                                Klenová
                                Kolonica
                                Senica
                                Stakcín
                                Snina
                                Ladomirov
                                Kalná Roztoka
                                Michalovce
                                Prešov
                                Šajdíkove Humence







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Mojher
                                Tom, Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, Sue - din - c .
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Tom,
                                  Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                  Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                  Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                  1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince


                                  From: Tom Fox
                                  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero



                                  Mike,

                                  Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                  Tom

                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                  Tom,
                                  Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                  From: Tom Fox
                                  Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                  Hello Bill,

                                  Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                  Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                  I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                  There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                  I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                  I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                  I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                  Regards,

                                  Tom Fox

                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                  Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                  have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                  There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                  Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                  get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                  your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                  In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                  Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                  Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                  Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                  Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                  country.

                                  Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                  Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                  most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                  Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                  Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                  Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                  converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                  You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                  success.
                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                  Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                  http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                  Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                  Learn about Rusyns:
                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                  Bill

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                  My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                  the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                  quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                  He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                  sent to Polish schools.

                                  A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                  I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                  American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                  Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                  Regards,

                                  Tom Fox

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  ------------------------------------

                                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Michael Mojher
                                  Tom, If I am not mistaken, Kirova would be the female form of Kiro. When I searched Kolonica the male form there was Kira. Here are the Census results. This
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Tom,
                                    If I am not mistaken, Kirova would be the female form of Kiro. When I searched Kolonica the male form there was Kira. Here are the Census results. This Kirova is the female form of Kira.

                                    Priezvisko KIROVÁ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 55×, celkový počet lokalít: 12, v lokalitách:
                                    KOLONICA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 26×;
                                    SNINA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 9×;
                                    SENICA, okr. SENICA – 6×;
                                    HRABOVEC NAD LABORCOM, okr. HUMENNÉ – 2×;
                                    LADOMIROV, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 2×;
                                    STAKČÍN, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 2×;
                                    RUŽINOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
                                    STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 2×;
                                    KALNÁ ROZTOKA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
                                    KLENOVÁ, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
                                    MICHALOVCE, okr. MICHALOVCE – 1×;
                                    PREŠOV, okr. PREŠOV – 1×;

                                    Priezvisko KIRA sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 47×, celkový počet lokalít: 8, v lokalitách:
                                    KOLONICA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 25×;
                                    SNINA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 12×;
                                    LADOMIROV, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 4×;
                                    HRABOVEC NAD LABORCOM, okr. HUMENNÉ – 2×;
                                    KALNÁ ROZTOKA, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
                                    KLENOVÁ, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
                                    STAKČÍN, okr. HUMENNÉ (od r. 1996 SNINA) – 1×;
                                    ŠACA (obec KOŠICE), okr. KOŠICE – 1×;


                                    From: Tom Fox
                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:14 AM
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero



                                    John,

                                    Thanks!

                                    Tom

                                    ________________________________
                                    From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:10:25 PM
                                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Kiro or Kero

                                    I have read the earlier posts and agree. Not that I have any answers but I can tell you that the Kiro(va) surname has existed in Slovakia in the following places based upon phone listings and a 1995 census. None sound like your village.

                                    Bratislava
                                    Hrabovec nad Laborcom
                                    Klenová
                                    Kolonica
                                    Senica
                                    Stakcín
                                    Snina
                                    Ladomirov
                                    Kalná Roztoka
                                    Michalovce
                                    Prešov
                                    Šajdíkove Humence

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Tom Fox
                                    Mike, Once again, thanks. Tom ________________________________ From: Michael Mojher To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 3,
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Mike,

                                      Once again, thanks.
                                      Tom





                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 11:52:37 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero


                                      Tom,
                                      Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                      Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                      Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                      1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                      From: Tom Fox
                                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                      Mike,

                                      Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                      Tom

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                      Tom,
                                      Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                      From: Tom Fox
                                      Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                      Hello Bill,

                                      Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                      Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                      I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                      There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                      I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                      I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                      I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                      Regards,

                                      Tom Fox

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                      Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                      have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                      There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                      Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                      get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                      your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                      In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                      Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                      Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                      Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                      Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                      country.

                                      Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                      Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                      most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                      Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                      Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                      Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                      converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                      You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                      success.
                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                      Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                      http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                      Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                      Learn about Rusyns:
                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                      Bill

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                      Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                      My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                      the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                      quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                      He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                      sent to Polish schools.

                                      A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                      I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                      American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                      Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                      Regards,

                                      Tom Fox

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Betty Kleimann
                                      i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area?   thanks
                                        --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:


                                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM


                                         



                                        Tom,
                                        Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                        Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                        Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                        1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                        From: Tom Fox
                                        Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                        Mike,

                                        Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                        Tom

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                        Tom,
                                        Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                        From: Tom Fox
                                        Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                        Hello Bill,

                                        Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                        Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                        I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                        There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                        I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                        I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                        I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                        Regards,

                                        Tom Fox

                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                        Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                        have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                        There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                        Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                        get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                        your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                        In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                        Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                        Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                        Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                        Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                        country.

                                        Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                        Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                        most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                        Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                        Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                        Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                        converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                        You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                        success.
                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                        Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                        http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                        Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                        Learn about Rusyns:
                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                        Bill

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                        Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                        My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                        the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                        quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                        He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                        sent to Polish schools.

                                        A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                        I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                        American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                        Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                        Regards,

                                        Tom Fox

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        ------------------------------------

                                        To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                        To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                        http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                        SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Janet Kozlay
                                        Roman Catholic records for Nagy-Brezsnyicze in old northern Zemplen are with Sztropko, now Stropkov, on line 1700-1897. Greek Catholic records are with
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jul 3, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Roman Catholic records for Nagy-Brezsnyicze in old northern Zemplen are with Sztropko, now Stropkov, on line 1700-1897.

                                          Greek Catholic records are with Minyocz, now Minovce, on line 1842-1919.



                                          I do hope you’re right and you find him.



                                          Janet





                                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Betty Kleimann
                                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:18 PM
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [S-R] help






                                          i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                          --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> > wrote:

                                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> >
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM



                                          Tom,
                                          Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                          Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                          Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                          1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                          From: Tom Fox
                                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                          Mike,

                                          Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                          Tom

                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@... <mailto:mgmojher%40comcast.net> >
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                          Tom,
                                          Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                          From: Tom Fox
                                          Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                          Hello Bill,

                                          Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                          Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                          I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                          There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                          I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                          I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                          I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                          Regards,

                                          Tom Fox

                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@... <mailto:bill.tarkulich%40iabsi.com> >
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                          Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                          have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                          There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                          Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                          get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                          your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                          In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                          Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                          Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                          Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                          Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                          country.

                                          Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                          Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                          most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                          http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                          Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                          Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                          Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                          converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                          You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                          success.
                                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                          Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                          http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                          Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                          Learn about Rusyns:
                                          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                          Bill

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                                          Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                          Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                          My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                          the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                          quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                          He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                          sent to Polish schools.

                                          A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                          I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                          American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                          Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                          Regards,

                                          Tom Fox

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          ------------------------------------

                                          To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                          To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                          http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> ! Groups Links

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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Ben Sorensen
                                          Hey there- Sudince would be said Soo-deen-tse with the last syllable being close to say but without the hard y at the end. soo- to match look and deen-
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                            Ben




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                            Subject: [S-R] help

                                             

                                            i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica.  i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area?   thanks
                                            --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                             

                                            Tom,
                                            Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                            Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                            Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                            1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                            From: Tom Fox
                                            Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                            Mike,

                                            Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                            Tom

                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                            Tom,
                                            Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                            From: Tom Fox
                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                            Hello Bill,

                                            Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                            Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                            I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                            There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                            I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                            I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                            I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                            Regards,

                                            Tom Fox

                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                            Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                            have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                            There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                            Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                            get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                            your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                            In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                            Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                            Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                            Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                            Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                            country.

                                            Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                            Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                            most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                            http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                            Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                            Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                            Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                            converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                            You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                            success.
                                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                            Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                            http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                            Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                            Learn about Rusyns:
                                            http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                            Bill

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                            Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                            Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                            My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                            the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                            quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                            He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                            sent to Polish schools.

                                            A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                            I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                            American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                            Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                            Regards,

                                            Tom Fox

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            ------------------------------------

                                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                            To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                            http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                            SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Michael Mojher
                                            Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation. Accent on the 1st or 2nd? From:
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                                              Accent on the 1st or 2nd?


                                              From: Ben Sorensen
                                              Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                                              Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                              Ben

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                              Subject: [S-R] help



                                              i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                              --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM



                                              Tom,
                                              Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                              Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                              Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                              1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                              From: Tom Fox
                                              Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                              Mike,

                                              Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                              Tom

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                              Tom,
                                              Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                              From: Tom Fox
                                              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                              Hello Bill,

                                              Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                              Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                              I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                              There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                              I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                              I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                              I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                              Regards,

                                              Tom Fox

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                              Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                              have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                              There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                              Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                              get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                              your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                              In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                              Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                              Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                              Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                              Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                              country.

                                              Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                              Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                              most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                              http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                              Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                              Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                              Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                              converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                              You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                              success.
                                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                              Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                              http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                              Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                              Learn about Rusyns:
                                              http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                              Bill

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                              Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                              Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                              My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                              the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                              quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                              He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                              sent to Polish schools.

                                              A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                              I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                              American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                              Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                              Regards,

                                              Tom Fox

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                            • Ben Sorensen
                                              Sorry Mike this is Ben :-) In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                                                In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS.  When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                                                Ben




                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                 
                                                Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                                                Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                                                From: Ben Sorensen
                                                Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                                Ben

                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                                Subject: [S-R] help

                                                i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                                --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                                From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                                Tom,
                                                Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                                Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                                Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                                1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                                From: Tom Fox
                                                Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                Mike,

                                                Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                                Tom

                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                Tom,
                                                Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                                From: Tom Fox
                                                Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                Hello Bill,

                                                Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                                Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                                I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                                There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                                I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                                I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                                I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                                Regards,

                                                Tom Fox

                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                                Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                                have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                                There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                                Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                                get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                                your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                                In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                                Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                                Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                                Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                                Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                                country.

                                                Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                                Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                                most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                                http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                                Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                                Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                                Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                                converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                                You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                                success.
                                                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                                Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                                http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                                Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                                Learn about Rusyns:
                                                http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                                Bill

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                                Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                                the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                                quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                                He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                                sent to Polish schools.

                                                A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                                I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                                American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                                Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                                Regards,

                                                Tom Fox

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                ------------------------------------

                                                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                                To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Michael Mojher
                                                Sorry Ben for the Bill. So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jul 4, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                                                  So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                                                  I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                                                  As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                                                  Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                                                  Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?


                                                  From: Ben Sorensen
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                                                  Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                                                  In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                                                  Ben

                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] help


                                                  Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                                                  Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                                                  From: Ben Sorensen
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                  Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                                  Ben

                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                                  Subject: [S-R] help

                                                  i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                                  --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                                  Tom,
                                                  Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                                  Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                                  Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                                  1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                                  From: Tom Fox
                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                  Mike,

                                                  Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                                  Tom

                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                  Tom,
                                                  Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                                  From: Tom Fox
                                                  Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                  Hello Bill,

                                                  Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                                  Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                                  I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                                  There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                                  I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                                  I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                                  I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Tom Fox

                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                  Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                                  have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                                  There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                                  Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                                  get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                                  your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                                  In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                                  Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                                  Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                                  Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                                  Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                                  country.

                                                  Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                                  Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                                  most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                                  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                                  Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                                  Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                                  Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                                  converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                                  You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                                  success.
                                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                                  Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                                  http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                                  Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                                  Learn about Rusyns:
                                                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                                  Bill

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                  Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                                  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                  My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                                  the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                                  quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                                  He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                                  sent to Polish schools.

                                                  A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                                  I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                                  American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                                  Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Tom Fox

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  ------------------------------------

                                                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                                  To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                  SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                                                • Ben Sorensen
                                                  Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind... _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_ Many- actually.  The grammar for
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jul 5, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind...
                                                    _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_

                                                    Many- actually.  The grammar for pure Slovak is extensive and almost never changes according to the models. There are three genders, and each gender has a model word to explain the 14 declentions- 7 singular, and 7 plural.  Some have built in exceptions, and foreign words present thier own problems, but the rules are everstanding. This is why Slovak is considered an INFLECTED language.
                                                    Also, the pronunciation of letters NEVER changes, in stark contrast to English. Bernolak's rule, to emphasise this, said "write it how you hear it." (This rule doesn't exactly apply anymore...)

                                                    _a dialect called Goral_
                                                    And just south and often surrounding this dialect you will find Spis, Liptov, and Saris. O yes, and Rusyn....  Just to make it even more fun :-) Some of the dialects "bleed" into the other areas... and Saris seems to be the most used for "eastern dialects" in Slovak media- but I have only experience and no numbers to verify this.

                                                    _I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia._

                                                    The people in Central Slovakia would say that the pure Slovak accent is dissappearing- replaced by the Bratislava accent. You can still hear the differences when travelling in SK- much like the difference between Massachusettes and North Carolina.

                                                    _ It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?_

                                                    There is no all-encompassing rules to the dialects on the whole.  You can find some that are dialect-specific... but it is the USE (that almost seems to be discretionary) and application of those rules that can also tell someone from which village they are from. The dialects differ from pure Slovak and from each other in pronunciation, grammar, syntax, and thier own words.  Podpolanie would say that "They are" this way: Oni sa.... In Slovak: Oni su....  The Slovak word for potato is zemiak. In Spis: grula. L'avica (a political LEFT) and lavica (a writing desk) are almost indistinguishable in BA, but in Zvolenska Slatina you can hear how a L' is supposed to sound.


                                                    How do I see the word? :-) Predsa, po slovensky! :-) I see Slovak as the most beautiful language, and Podpoliansky as the most beautiful incarnation of it. BTW- the Slovaks call a German "nemec."  It comes from the word for mumbler or gibberish- speaker. When Germans spoke, they didn't understand the "gibberish," and said that the people were "nemi..." (unintelligble). Nemi-nemec-Nemecko (Germany in Slovak). :-) Fun fact.
                                                    Ben


                                                     


                                                     



                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 1:17:50 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                     
                                                    Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                                                    So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                                                    I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                                                    As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                                                    Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                                                    Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?

                                                    From: Ben Sorensen
                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                    Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                                                    In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                                                    Ben

                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                    Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                                                    Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                                                    From: Ben Sorensen
                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                    Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                                    Ben

                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                                    Subject: [S-R] help

                                                    i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                                    --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                                    Tom,
                                                    Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                                    Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                                    Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                                    1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                                    From: Tom Fox
                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                    Mike,

                                                    Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                                    Tom

                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                    Tom,
                                                    Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                                    From: Tom Fox
                                                    Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                    Hello Bill,

                                                    Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                                    Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                                    I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                                    There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                                    I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                                    I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                                    I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                                    Regards,

                                                    Tom Fox

                                                    ________________________________
                                                    From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                    Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                                    have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                                    There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                                    Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                                    get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                                    your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                                    In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                                    Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                                    Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                                    Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                                    Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                                    country.

                                                    Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                                    Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                                    most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                                    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                                    Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                                    Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                                    Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                                    converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                                    You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                                    success.
                                                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                                    Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                                    http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                                    Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                                    Learn about Rusyns:
                                                    http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                                    Bill

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                    Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                                    Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                    My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                                    the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                                    quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                                    He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                                    sent to Polish schools.

                                                    A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                                    I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                                    American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                                    Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                                    Regards,

                                                    Tom Fox

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                    ------------------------------------

                                                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                                    To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                    http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                    SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                                                  • Michael Mojher
                                                    Ben, Thanks for the language lesson. The subject arose because my niece-in-law who is from Presov just had a baby girl. Lydia s intent is to raise her
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jul 5, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Ben,
                                                      Thanks for the language lesson.
                                                      The subject arose because my niece-in-law who is from Presov just had a baby girl. Lydia's intent is to raise her bi-lingual. I wish my parents had done that. So the Slovak language was on my mind.


                                                      From: Ben Sorensen
                                                      Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:38 AM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help



                                                      Wow, Mike, there is alot here to answer! I will reply to each in kind...
                                                      _Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?_

                                                      Many- actually. The grammar for pure Slovak is extensive and almost never changes according to the models. There are three genders, and each gender has a model word to explain the 14 declentions- 7 singular, and 7 plural. Some have built in exceptions, and foreign words present thier own problems, but the rules are everstanding. This is why Slovak is considered an INFLECTED language.
                                                      Also, the pronunciation of letters NEVER changes, in stark contrast to English. Bernolak's rule, to emphasise this, said "write it how you hear it." (This rule doesn't exactly apply anymore...)

                                                      _a dialect called Goral_
                                                      And just south and often surrounding this dialect you will find Spis, Liptov, and Saris. O yes, and Rusyn.... Just to make it even more fun :-) Some of the dialects "bleed" into the other areas... and Saris seems to be the most used for "eastern dialects" in Slovak media- but I have only experience and no numbers to verify this.

                                                      _I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia._

                                                      The people in Central Slovakia would say that the pure Slovak accent is dissappearing- replaced by the Bratislava accent. You can still hear the differences when travelling in SK- much like the difference between Massachusettes and North Carolina.

                                                      _ It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?_

                                                      There is no all-encompassing rules to the dialects on the whole. You can find some that are dialect-specific... but it is the USE (that almost seems to be discretionary) and application of those rules that can also tell someone from which village they are from. The dialects differ from pure Slovak and from each other in pronunciation, grammar, syntax, and thier own words. Podpolanie would say that "They are" this way: Oni sa.... In Slovak: Oni su.... The Slovak word for potato is zemiak. In Spis: grula. L'avica (a political LEFT) and lavica (a writing desk) are almost indistinguishable in BA, but in Zvolenska Slatina you can hear how a L' is supposed to sound.

                                                      How do I see the word? :-) Predsa, po slovensky! :-) I see Slovak as the most beautiful language, and Podpoliansky as the most beautiful incarnation of it. BTW- the Slovaks call a German "nemec." It comes from the word for mumbler or gibberish- speaker. When Germans spoke, they didn't understand the "gibberish," and said that the people were "nemi..." (unintelligble). Nemi-nemec-Nemecko (Germany in Slovak). :-) Fun fact.
                                                      Ben





                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 1:17:50 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help


                                                      Sorry Ben for the Bill.
                                                      So, it is always the first syllable that is accented (except in the use of a dialect). Any other rules that have non or a few exceptions?

                                                      I have seen a dialect map of Slovakia. It showed 40 some dialects. In the area of my ancestral villages of Hromos and Plavnica it was a dialect called Goral. From what I understand that dialect was spoken across the Carpathian Mountains in Poland also. It appears "social circles" at one time were not so concerned about political affiliations. Rather those that shared a common economy because of the geography were linked via the dialect spoken. Even today my relatives have spoken of how they have heard a Slovak dialect that was complete foreign and not understood by them. I have also been told because of the education system and mass media that the dialects are in danger of being lost to a singular Lingua Slovakia.

                                                      As a concept a dialect must have rules, or else it would be gibberish. The dialects are because of a different set of rules to the norm of the dominant language or any other dialect. It might be asked is there is a rule to these dialect rules. It is the pronunciation, grammar, syntax, or unique word creation that separates the different Slovak dialects from one another?

                                                      Thomas Klimek Ward wrote a wonderful little book entitled People of the Word: A Synopsis of Slovak History. The "People of the Word" can have a couple of interpretations. For Ward the Word was the Bible and how the territory that is now Slovakia was where the first Christian church was built in Nitra in the 800's. For me the word is Slovak. On my many trips I have heard Slovaks say they thought they had the most beautiful spoken language. Which I am sure others would gladly debate theirs is. But to have such pride in ones language says something about how important that language is to the Slovaks.

                                                      Ben. As a student of Slovak how do you see the "Word"?

                                                      From: Ben Sorensen
                                                      Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:21 PM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                      Sorry Mike this is Ben :-)

                                                      In Slovak, the accent is ALWAYS on the first syllable- unless it is a dialect word. The rule for the accent in pure Slovak has NO EXCEPTIONS. When you speak in dialect, there are no rules. :-)
                                                      Ben

                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 10:14:55 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                      Thanks Bill. Nice to have your expertise. The had part is finding a Slovak village that has something near that pronunciation.
                                                      Accent on the 1st or 2nd?

                                                      From: Ben Sorensen
                                                      Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:53 PM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] help

                                                      Hey there- Sudince would be said "Soo-deen-tse" with the last syllable being close to "say" but without the hard "y" at the end. soo- to match "look" and deen- to match "dean," and "say."
                                                      Ben

                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Betty Kleimann <dartlady1956@...>
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 4:17:59 PM
                                                      Subject: [S-R] help

                                                      i have found out that my grandfather was fromback then Nagybrezsnyice or now a days called Breznica. i have a feeling this is it. any clues for records from that area? thanks
                                                      --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM

                                                      Tom,
                                                      Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                                      Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                                      Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                                      1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                                      From: Tom Fox
                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                      Mike,

                                                      Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                                      Tom

                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                      Tom,
                                                      Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                                      From: Tom Fox
                                                      Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                      Hello Bill,

                                                      Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                                      Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                                      I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                                      There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                                      I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                                      I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                                      I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                                      Regards,

                                                      Tom Fox

                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                      Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                                      have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                                      There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                                      Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                                      get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                                      your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                                      In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                                      Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                                      Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                                      Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                                      Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                                      country.

                                                      Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                                      Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                                      most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                                      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                                      Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                                      Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                                      Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                                      converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                                      You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                                      success.
                                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                                      Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                                      http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                                      Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                                      Learn about Rusyns:
                                                      http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                                      Bill

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                      Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                                      Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                      My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                                      the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                                      quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                                      He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                                      sent to Polish schools.

                                                      A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                                      I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                                      American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                                      Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                                      Regards,

                                                      Tom Fox

                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                      ------------------------------------

                                                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

                                                      To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                                                      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                                                      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                                                    • Betty Kleimann
                                                      i am wondering about a child my great grandfather fathered. she was in pa and they say my grandfather came here to visit her, how would i find that out. would
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jul 8, 2010
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        i am wondering about a child my great grandfather fathered. she was in pa and they say my grandfather came here to visit her, how would i find that out. would he come by ship? how would he come?  how would i find anything about her? i am puzzled right now. everything is on hold because i can't find any more info on him and nothing at all on my grandmother who was from what is now known as the czech republic.  i don't know which way to turn. i am thinking of making a trip to d.c. and seeing what i can find out at the archives and at immigration. is that a good idea? thanks betty

                                                        --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:


                                                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 11:52 AM


                                                         



                                                        Tom,
                                                        Wish I spoke Slovak so I could give you the pronunciation. I do know that in Slovak there are no silent letters. My best try would be, "Sue - din - c".
                                                        Here are the ways Sudince has been spelled through its history. Since it was called Osod from 1863 to 1920, during the life time of your relative being born, I would say Sudince is not your Suedna.
                                                        Sudince KA/BC hont.
                                                        1773 Eössöd, Sedimitz [!], Sudnice, 1786 Oeschöd, Sedinecz, 1808 Össöd, Sudince, 1863, 1888, 1913 Ösöd, 1873–1882, 1892–1907 Ősöd, 1920 Šudince, Sudince, 1927– Sudince

                                                        From: Tom Fox
                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:11 AM
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                        Mike,

                                                        Thanks! How do you think 'Sudince' might sound to an American writing it down from a Slovak's lips?

                                                        Tom

                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:31:10 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                        Tom,
                                                        Anther possibility for Suedna: Sudince, Krupina District in Banska Bystrica Region.

                                                        From: Tom Fox
                                                        Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 5:41 PM
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                        Hello Bill,

                                                        Sorry for the delay. I am running a basketball camp which is a bit hectic.

                                                        Byzantine church is correct. The first few children were all baptized in Byzantine Catholic church.

                                                        I do understand about the reference to the A-H Empire, but wrote that to explain how Mike Kero answered every question about his roots on paperwork between 1900 and 1940.

                                                        There is no question he spoke Russian. He eventually learned English, but Russian was his native language.

                                                        I do believe that the reference to "Suedna" as his palce of origin is 100% correct. It was the ONLY placename ever mentioned and it was on his naturalization papers, which many years of genelaogy have shown (me, at least) to be the most reliable source - as compared to census, marriage, birth records etc. Besides it is the ONLY time a placename was mentioned. Unlikely to be made up. Plus, it is the only time he mentioned the port of departure (Bremen) and the ships's name (Ressetland).

                                                        I have checked Ellis Island, I have checked census records and every family record. My thought, and it is only a thought, is that "Suedna" was heard by an American writing it down. On a map of Slovakia, I see a town called Svidnik, which is called on one web site, "Zuydnegh." Is it possible this might sound Suedna to an American writing down the man's answer? I understand I am taking a leap, but I have to start somewhere. I have what I have.

                                                        I am very appreciative of your help and that of the entire group, and can only hope I may be of assistance to others down the road.

                                                        Regards,

                                                        Tom Fox

                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:57:36 PM
                                                        Subject: RE: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                        Hello Tom. Let's start with getting the facts. I think the information you
                                                        have is quite twisted and incorrect.

                                                        There are no Greek Orthodox in Slovakia (well, maybe one or two...) and
                                                        Russian was hardly ever an identified ethnic group. Where and when did you
                                                        get this information on church and ethnicity? Getting the time context of
                                                        your information is critical since the region was in flux for so long.

                                                        In 1900, the area of Slovakia was Ruled by Hungary as was western Ukraine.
                                                        Poland was ruled by Austria as the Galacia province. Forget about the
                                                        Austro-Hungary reference - it is useless in genealogy research -
                                                        Austro-Hungary was the outward manifestation of foreign policy and military.
                                                        Internal affairs remained separately governed and documented by respective
                                                        country.

                                                        Could it be that your Greek Orthodox of Russian Ethnicity is actually Greek
                                                        Catholic (today's Byzantine Catholic), ethnic Rusyn? In Slovakia, for the
                                                        most part the congregants of the Greek Catholic church were ethnic Rusyn.
                                                        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06744a.htm

                                                        Carpatho-Rusyns lived in Eastern Slovakia, Southern Poland and Western
                                                        Ukraine. They are presently grouped as Carpatho-Rusyn, Lemko, Boyko and
                                                        Hucul. Other than Rusyn, today many self-identify as Ukrainian, and many
                                                        converted to Orthodox (Russian.)

                                                        You absolutely positively have to have his village of origin if you want
                                                        success.
                                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ancestral_village.htm

                                                        Have you examined the Ellis island ship manifests?
                                                        http://www.stevemorse.org/

                                                        Have you written for a copy of his immigration file?
                                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ins_foia_petitions.htm

                                                        Learn about Rusyns:
                                                        http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/many_things_rusyn.htm

                                                        Bill

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                        Behalf Of Tom Fox
                                                        Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 PM
                                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [S-R] Kiro or Kero

                                                        My wife's grandfather arrived about 1900 and settled in Elizabeth, NJ using
                                                        the name "Kiro," which eventually became Kero. He was a rather secretive
                                                        quiet man who spoke Russian and was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                                        He married a Polish girl. The early children were baptized G.O. and were not
                                                        sent to Polish schools.

                                                        A recent ancestry DNA test suggest he was 90% Slovakian. The only placename
                                                        I have is "Suedna." (written on a naturalization paper probably by an
                                                        American). All other mentions were always "Austrian-Hungary" type things.

                                                        Can anyone help with the surname or placename or suggest avenues to search?

                                                        Regards,

                                                        Tom Fox

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