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Re: [S-R] Surname--Aliases

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  • Gina
    I had the same alias situation as well....Until recently, for my entire life I thought my grandmother s maiden name was Benyo , only to find out after Michael
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 7, 2010
      I had the same alias situation as well....Until recently, for my entire life
      I thought my grandmother's maiden name was 'Benyo', only to find out after
      Michael did research for me, that Benyo is just a nickname for Benjamin! Her
      actual name was 'Chaly'. In copies of the church papers he sent, the surname
      is found as both 'Chaly' and as 'Chaly-Benyo.' I was shocked when he first
      told me this; and ever since then, I often wonder if my grandmother even
      knew that Benyo was not her real surname?.....Gina



      On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:19 PM, deeellessbee <deeellessbee@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I've come up against this alias situation also, and honestly, it set back
      > my research for a LONG time. Finally, someone contacted me after I posted on
      > a message board. This person had one of the family names as a surname; my
      > line used the other!
      >
      > He knew about both names, fortunately for me, and told me about the alias
      > (ours in particular and the usage in general) and since then I have been
      > able to find many more ancestors - who in the records, by the way, always
      > were listed by only one name, and it wasn't the one I was looking for! So
      > without learning the other name, I would never have found anyone. I'm still
      > not sure which name was which! But I also thought it was interesting that
      > some family members used one name and other branches used the other.
      >
      > It can be very confusing, not only for us researchers, but for family
      > members in general. I saw on a death certificate that the deceased person's
      > parent's were misnamed. They gave the mother one name, and the father the
      > other, when both names belonged to the father's family. So I never did find
      > out from this record what the mother's maiden name was.
      >
      > You are indeed lucky, as Janet says, that you found a record that confirms
      > one person used both names. That sure would have saved me a lot of time and
      > frustration!
      >
      > Debbie
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Jenet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Elaine,
      > >
      > > The only "scholarly" treatise of this issue that I have found is in Fel
      > and Hofer's book Proper Peasants where they discuss the branching of
      > families and the distinguishing of these branches by adding surnames. These
      > names are usually called "prenames," though Fel and Hofer do not use that
      > term. You may find both names used together, or either one alone. Often,
      > over several generations, the prename becomes the main name and the original
      > family name may be dropped entirely. One of the lines in my research is the
      > very old name of Ruttkay. Over time it developed branches, and the one I
      > follow is Mattusovitz. I have found members of this branch recorded as
      > Ruttkay, Mattusovitz Ruttkay, Ruttkay Mattusovitz, and Mattusovitz.
      > Interestingly, however, in this instance the branch finally reverted to
      > using Ruttkay alone, dropping the Mattusovitz prename.
      > >
      > > Fel and Hofer give some examples where a prename might come from the
      > wife's family or a distinguishing characteristic of the individual adopting
      > the new name, like a nickname. However, I indicated previously that there
      > seem to be many of these name changes where it cannot be determined where
      > the "new" name came from.
      > >
      > > The issue of married women's names is more straightforward. Throughout
      > Hungary, and I believe most of Europe, women retained their birth names
      > after marriage. It is only relatively recently that wives might be referred
      > to by their husband's name (Mrs. in English, for example, or the "-ova"
      > suffix in Slovak and the "-n��" suffix in Hungarian). There was no "law"
      > that stated how a married woman's name was recorded; it was pretty much left
      > to the priest. So in the records you might find a woman's name written with
      > the additional information that she was the wife of so-and-so. The wording
      > of this varied from priest to priest. Sometimes this information was not
      > given; sometimes her given name was paired only with the name of her
      > husband. It seems to me that the latter form is most frequently found in the
      > death records. You cite yet another form, where the priest indicated the
      > husband's surname as "alias." Since there was no standard to follow, it
      > would not be surprising to find a woman's name recorded in more than one
      > form.
      > >
      > > As for your great-grandfather, "mostoha fia" means step-son (of Gaydos
      > Janos) in Hungarian, so I think you are right that Anna was his mother from
      > a previous marriage. Have you looked for his birth record, or the record of
      > Anna's marriage to Holub? That should make it clearer.
      > >
      > > All of this is guaranteed to make our genealogical searching more
      > difficult, but then it is great fun when you manage to sort out the puzzle.
      > >
      > > Janet
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Elaine
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 3:00 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Surname--Aliases
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Janet,
      > >
      > > I have been reviewing the films of Kostolany in the 1820-1860 range,
      > > and in the earlier timeframes, I ran across the use of the alias term
      > > for what seemed to be the deceased woman's married name. Her maiden
      > > name was Dorothea Medvecz, and she had married a Kolar/Kollar. I saw
      > > both their names used in the death records of a couple children. In
      > > her own death record, unlike some later ones I've seen, the priest did
      > > not put "Dorothea Medvecz maritus Georgii Kolar" (I may not have
      > > gotten the Latin endings correct). Instead, it listed her name and
      > > then added "alias Kolar."
      > >
      > > Have you seen this before? It was the first time I have.
      > >
      > > In contrast, on the 1869 census, my g grandfather Holub Ferencz was
      > > designated as "mostoha fia" in the record of Gaydos Janos and Anna
      > > Szabo. I assume Anna is his mother, and she was in a later marriage.
      > >
      > > Would appreciate any resources that discuss the use of the alias term.
      > >
      > > Thanks!
      > >
      > > Elaine
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPhone
      > >
      > > On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:45 PM, "Janet Kozlay" <kozlay@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > The word you are having trouble with is ���m��sk��p�� and it does me
      > > > an
      > > > ���otherwise�� or ���alias.�� The issue of the use of aliases comes
      > > > up frequently,
      > > > with a variety of possible explanations. The most common one is that
      > > > an
      > > > alias served to distinguish several families in a village with the
      > > > same
      > > > name. While that may well be the case in many instances, there are
      > > > also many
      > > > for which this does not seem plausible. Tutej, for example, does not
      > > > appear
      > > > to be a common name��"unless you have found it otherwise. I have found
      > > > in my
      > > > experience many cases of the adoption of an alias for which there is
      > > > no
      > > > obvious explanation. What is clear is that aliases were quite common.
      > > > Ethnographers even cite examples where a family might be known by
      > > > one name
      > > > in one village and a different one in a neighboring village. My own
      > > > research
      > > > has revealed that my husband���s great-grandfather���s family was
      > > > known by four
      > > > different surnames. Some of these changes appeared to coincide with
      > > > a move
      > > > to a different village. I think you are fortunate to have found a
      > > > record
      > > > that makes it clear that Gabor was known by two different family
      > > > names, and
      > > > it is most likely that Tutej was the earlier name. I think you can be
      > > > confident that they are the same people.
      > > >
      > > > Janet
      > > >
      > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
      > SLOVAK-
      > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>] On
      > > > Behalf Of Nancy Gibbs
      > > > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:01 AM
      > > > To: Slovak Roots Group
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Surname--Tutej or Sztraka???
      > > >
      > > > I need clarification on some records I have found at the FHC pilot
      > > > records.
      > > > It all goes back to the marriage record I found at Slovakia, RC,
      > > > Kende,
      > > > #429, p. 128, line 11.
      > > >
      > > > "Tutej _____ (don't know spelling of word but have been told it means
      > > > "alias") Sztraka Gabor, Janos es Kuchar, Anna....." (Gabor is my
      > > > greatgrandfather)
      > > >
      > > > I have found birth/baptism and death records for children of TUTEJ,
      > > > Janos &
      > > > Kuchar, Anna and some with SZTRAKA, Janos & Kuchar, Anna where their
      > > > place
      > > > of residence has either been Kis-Saros or Zsebfalu.
      > > >
      > > > My questions: Can I assume these are the same people? What would be
      > > > their
      > > > actual surname if in fact that word does mean "alias"? By the time
      > > > Gabor
      > > > (Gabriel) Sztraka/Tutej and his wife had children, they records only
      > > > show
      > > > Sztraka. I am confused as to why 2 names are used if these are the
      > > > same
      > > > people.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for any and all help.
      > > >
      > > > Nancy
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >



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