Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records

Expand Messages
  • Sandra/John Panzitta
    Carl, Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these films today
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Carl,

      Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military
      records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these
      films today and hopefully, in a month or so, I will be reporting back my
      successes!

      Sandra
      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Carl
      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:06 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



      Hi Sandra,
      I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I
      have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments do
      have indexes of soldiers which makes it much easier to find their records.
      But the Hungarian regiments and the ones from Galatia are organized only by
      regimental number.

      While IR 20 did recruit in Saros (and Szepes) for a short time in the late
      1850s, this regiment recruited primarily in Galatia and not Hungary. So, I
      would recommend starting with IR46 and IR67 first.

      Army church records were also kept by regimental number. So, for example,
      if you enter the following into the LDS catalog key word search: Osterreich.
      Armee. Infanterie Regiment 046
      The grundbuchblatter and Kirchenbuch (church book)for IR46 will come up.

      By the way, Army regiments were made up of several battalions. The
      regimental records are consequently subdivided by battalion. So, as you
      review the grundbuchblatter records, you will find sequential records for
      each battalion separately. The officers of each battalion will be listed
      first followed by the enlisted men. You will also find that the officer's
      birth years are different from those of the enlisted men so don't get
      confused. The most senior officers were obviously much older than the
      troops. Make sure you review each battalion for the birth year of your
      ancestor and record the battalion number when you find him. That will help
      you when you review the military history of the regiment.

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi Carl,
      >
      > I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869
      for
      > Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY,
      born
      > circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
      > might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just
      not
      > my line of ancestor.
      >
      > About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some
      sort.
      > T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
      > 1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I
      am
      > guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what
      else
      > the title indicates. Do you know?
      >
      > As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS'
      occupation
      > was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or
      hor)
      > katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married
      a
      > man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
      > Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I
      would
      > think I would see katona all over the records.
      >
      > Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding
      military
      > church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily
      find
      > anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
      > tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter
      baptism
      > record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki
      86".
      > It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
      > children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US.
      I
      > assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's
      death.
      > Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.
      >
      > Sandra
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > Behalf Of Carl
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
      >
      >
      >
      > Sandra,
      > Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
      > soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
      > left out the "not".
      > CK
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Sandra,
      > > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure
      that
      > it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be
      on
      > furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they
      had
      > completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married
      while on
      > military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
      > 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
      > Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
      > can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he
      would
      > have been in the service for a very long time.
      > >
      > > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria
      had
      > until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
      > uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers
      died
      > of diseases too.
      > >
      > > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
      > both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46
      or
      > IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with
      IR46
      > in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is
      just
      > no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
      > regimental number?
      > >
      > > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can
      provide
      > you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about
      what
      > their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one
      with
      > Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very
      interested
      > in.
      > >
      > > Carl
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Carl,
      > > >
      > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I
      am
      > very
      > > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
      > move
      > > > onto Saros...
      > > >
      > > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
      > born
      > > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
      > records
      > > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
      > > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
      > retired
      > > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33
      years
      > old
      > > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
      > marriage
      > > > was at age 33.
      > > >
      > > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted
      occupation,
      > > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
      > supported
      > > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
      > > >
      > > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
      > With a
      > > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check
      late
      > > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
      > > >
      > > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
      > 1874,
      > > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his
      widow.
      > > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
      > there a
      > > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family
      circa
      > > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
      > > >
      > > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
      > find.
      > > > Sandra
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > > Behalf Of Carl
      > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hello again Sandra,
      > > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
      > for
      > > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
      > > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
      > > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you
      will
      > find
      > > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
      > You can
      > > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
      > Word"
      > > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
      > records
      > > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
      > Muster
      > > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
      > web
      > > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
      > of a
      > > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
      > example is
      > > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
      > current
      > > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
      > Zemplen.
      > > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in
      Slovakia
      > except
      > > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
      > the
      > > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about
      that.
      > > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
      > some
      > > > other relative.
      > > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
      > > > CK
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta"
      <pman40@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello,
      > > > >
      > > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
      > > > Military
      > > > > Records and have a few questions.
      > > > >
      > > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
      > County.
      > > > From
      > > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
      > Which
      > > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
      > years
      > > > 1817
      > > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
      > for
      > > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
      > > > >
      > > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at
      the
      > age
      > > > of
      > > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
      > for
      > > > me to
      > > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined
      the
      > > > > recruiting location was 066.
      > > > >
      > > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up
      with
      > > > records
      > > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
      > Second
      > > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not
      indexed?
      > I
      > > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make
      sure
      > this
      > > > is
      > > > > the way to go.
      > > > >
      > > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
      > both
      > > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
      > > > question -
      > > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
      > from
      > > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the
      appropriate
      > > > years?
      > > > >
      > > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
      > again,
      > > > they
      > > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
      > rolls.
      > > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
      > Zemplen?
      > > > >
      > > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
      > Zemplen
      > > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
      > > > > Sandra Panzitta
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > > > Behalf Of Carl
      > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
      > Austro-Hungary
      > > > > Military Records
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for
      my
      > > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
      > > > suggestions
      > > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
      > Bill
      > > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
      > the
      > > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > > > > Carl Kotlarchik
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
      > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
      > Records
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
      > about
      > > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
      > > > Kotlarchik
      > > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
      > > > easy-to
      > > > > read paper.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
      > > > resources
      > > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
      > region
      > > > of
      > > > > the empire.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
      > > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
      > bibliography.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
      > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us
      the
      > > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Excerpt:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
      > > > > >
      > > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
      > > > > >
      > > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary
      resource
      > for
      > > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
      > to a
      > > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
      > dates. It
      > > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
      > their
      > > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one
      first
      > > > needs
      > > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept
      at
      > > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records
      were
      > > > also
      > > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
      > Consequently,
      > > > it
      > > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about
      the
      > > > history
      > > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.