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RE: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records

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  • Sandra/John Panzitta
    Hi Carl, I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 2, 2010
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      Hi Carl,

      I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for
      Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY, born
      circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
      might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just not
      my line of ancestor.

      About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some sort.
      T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
      1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I am
      guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what else
      the title indicates. Do you know?

      As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS' occupation
      was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or hor)
      katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married a
      man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
      Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I would
      think I would see katona all over the records.

      Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding military
      church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily find
      anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
      tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter baptism
      record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki 86".
      It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
      children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US. I
      assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's death.
      Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.

      Sandra




      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Carl
      Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



      Sandra,
      Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
      soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
      left out the "not".
      CK
      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Sandra,
      > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that
      it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on
      furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had
      completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on
      military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
      1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
      Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
      can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would
      have been in the service for a very long time.
      >
      > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had
      until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
      uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died
      of diseases too.
      >
      > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
      both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or
      IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46
      in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just
      no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
      regimental number?
      >
      > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide
      you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what
      their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with
      Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested
      in.
      >
      > Carl
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Carl,
      > >
      > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am
      very
      > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
      move
      > > onto Saros...
      > >
      > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
      born
      > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
      records
      > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
      > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
      retired
      > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years
      old
      > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
      marriage
      > > was at age 33.
      > >
      > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
      > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
      supported
      > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
      > >
      > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
      With a
      > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
      > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
      > >
      > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
      1874,
      > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
      > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
      there a
      > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
      > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
      > >
      > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
      find.
      > > Sandra
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > Behalf Of Carl
      > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hello again Sandra,
      > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
      for
      > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
      > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
      > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will
      find
      > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
      You can
      > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
      Word"
      > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
      records
      > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
      Muster
      > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
      web
      > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
      of a
      > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
      example is
      > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
      current
      > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
      Zemplen.
      > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia
      except
      > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
      the
      > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
      > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
      some
      > > other relative.
      > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
      > > CK
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello,
      > > >
      > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
      > > Military
      > > > Records and have a few questions.
      > > >
      > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
      County.
      > > From
      > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
      Which
      > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
      years
      > > 1817
      > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
      for
      > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
      > > >
      > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the
      age
      > > of
      > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
      for
      > > me to
      > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
      > > > recruiting location was 066.
      > > >
      > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
      > > records
      > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
      Second
      > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed?
      I
      > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure
      this
      > > is
      > > > the way to go.
      > > >
      > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
      both
      > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
      > > question -
      > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
      from
      > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
      > > years?
      > > >
      > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
      again,
      > > they
      > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
      rolls.
      > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
      Zemplen?
      > > >
      > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
      Zemplen
      > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
      > > > Sandra Panzitta
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > > Behalf Of Carl
      > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
      Austro-Hungary
      > > > Military Records
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
      > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
      > > suggestions
      > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
      Bill
      > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
      the
      > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > > > Carl Kotlarchik
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
      wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
      Records
      > > > >
      > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
      about
      > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
      > > Kotlarchik
      > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
      > > easy-to
      > > > read paper.
      > > > >
      > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
      > > resources
      > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
      region
      > > of
      > > > the empire.
      > > > >
      > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
      > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
      bibliography.
      > > > >
      > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
      > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
      > > > >
      > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
      > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
      > > > >
      > > > > Excerpt:
      > > > >
      > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
      > > > >
      > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
      > > > >
      > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
      > > > >
      > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource
      for
      > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
      to a
      > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
      dates. It
      > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
      their
      > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
      > > > >
      > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
      > > needs
      > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
      > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
      > > also
      > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
      Consequently,
      > > it
      > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
      > > history
      > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      > > > >
      > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carl
      Hi Sandra, I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Sandra,
        I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments do have indexes of soldiers which makes it much easier to find their records. But the Hungarian regiments and the ones from Galatia are organized only by regimental number.

        While IR 20 did recruit in Saros (and Szepes) for a short time in the late 1850s, this regiment recruited primarily in Galatia and not Hungary. So, I would recommend starting with IR46 and IR67 first.

        Army church records were also kept by regimental number. So, for example, if you enter the following into the LDS catalog key word search: Osterreich. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 046
        The grundbuchblatter and Kirchenbuch (church book)for IR46 will come up.

        By the way, Army regiments were made up of several battalions. The regimental records are consequently subdivided by battalion. So, as you review the grundbuchblatter records, you will find sequential records for each battalion separately. The officers of each battalion will be listed first followed by the enlisted men. You will also find that the officer's birth years are different from those of the enlisted men so don't get confused. The most senior officers were obviously much older than the troops. Make sure you review each battalion for the birth year of your ancestor and record the battalion number when you find him. That will help you when you review the military history of the regiment.


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Carl,
        >
        > I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for
        > Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY, born
        > circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
        > might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just not
        > my line of ancestor.
        >
        > About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some sort.
        > T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
        > 1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I am
        > guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what else
        > the title indicates. Do you know?
        >
        > As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS' occupation
        > was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or hor)
        > katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married a
        > man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
        > Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I would
        > think I would see katona all over the records.
        >
        > Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding military
        > church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily find
        > anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
        > tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter baptism
        > record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki 86".
        > It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
        > children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US. I
        > assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's death.
        > Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.
        >
        > Sandra
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
        > Behalf Of Carl
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
        >
        >
        >
        > Sandra,
        > Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
        > soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
        > left out the "not".
        > CK
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Sandra,
        > > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that
        > it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on
        > furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had
        > completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on
        > military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
        > 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
        > Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
        > can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would
        > have been in the service for a very long time.
        > >
        > > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had
        > until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
        > uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died
        > of diseases too.
        > >
        > > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
        > both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or
        > IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46
        > in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just
        > no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
        > regimental number?
        > >
        > > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide
        > you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what
        > their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with
        > Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested
        > in.
        > >
        > > Carl
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Carl,
        > > >
        > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am
        > very
        > > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
        > move
        > > > onto Saros...
        > > >
        > > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
        > born
        > > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
        > records
        > > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
        > > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
        > retired
        > > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years
        > old
        > > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
        > marriage
        > > > was at age 33.
        > > >
        > > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
        > > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
        > supported
        > > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
        > > >
        > > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
        > With a
        > > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
        > > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
        > > >
        > > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
        > 1874,
        > > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
        > > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
        > there a
        > > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
        > > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
        > > >
        > > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
        > find.
        > > > Sandra
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
        > > > Behalf Of Carl
        > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
        > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello again Sandra,
        > > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
        > for
        > > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
        > > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
        > > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will
        > find
        > > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
        > You can
        > > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
        > Word"
        > > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
        > records
        > > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
        > Muster
        > > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
        > web
        > > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
        > of a
        > > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
        > example is
        > > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
        > current
        > > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
        > Zemplen.
        > > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia
        > except
        > > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
        > the
        > > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
        > > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
        > some
        > > > other relative.
        > > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
        > > > CK
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello,
        > > > >
        > > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
        > > > Military
        > > > > Records and have a few questions.
        > > > >
        > > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
        > County.
        > > > From
        > > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
        > Which
        > > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
        > years
        > > > 1817
        > > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
        > for
        > > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
        > > > >
        > > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the
        > age
        > > > of
        > > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
        > for
        > > > me to
        > > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
        > > > > recruiting location was 066.
        > > > >
        > > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
        > > > records
        > > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
        > Second
        > > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed?
        > I
        > > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure
        > this
        > > > is
        > > > > the way to go.
        > > > >
        > > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
        > both
        > > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
        > > > question -
        > > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
        > from
        > > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
        > > > years?
        > > > >
        > > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
        > again,
        > > > they
        > > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
        > rolls.
        > > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
        > Zemplen?
        > > > >
        > > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
        > Zemplen
        > > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
        > > > > Sandra Panzitta
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
        > > > > Behalf Of Carl
        > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
        > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
        > Austro-Hungary
        > > > > Military Records
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
        > > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
        > > > suggestions
        > > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
        > Bill
        > > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
        > the
        > > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
        > > > > Carl Kotlarchik
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
        > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
        > Records
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
        > about
        > > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
        > > > Kotlarchik
        > > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
        > > > easy-to
        > > > > read paper.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
        > > > resources
        > > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
        > region
        > > > of
        > > > > the empire.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
        > > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
        > bibliography.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
        > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
        > > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Excerpt:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
        > > > > >
        > > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
        > > > > >
        > > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource
        > for
        > > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
        > to a
        > > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
        > dates. It
        > > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
        > their
        > > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
        > > > needs
        > > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
        > > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
        > > > also
        > > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
        > Consequently,
        > > > it
        > > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
        > > > history
        > > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Sandra/John Panzitta
        Carl, Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these films today
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Carl,

          Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military
          records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these
          films today and hopefully, in a month or so, I will be reporting back my
          successes!

          Sandra
          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of Carl
          Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:06 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



          Hi Sandra,
          I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I
          have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments do
          have indexes of soldiers which makes it much easier to find their records.
          But the Hungarian regiments and the ones from Galatia are organized only by
          regimental number.

          While IR 20 did recruit in Saros (and Szepes) for a short time in the late
          1850s, this regiment recruited primarily in Galatia and not Hungary. So, I
          would recommend starting with IR46 and IR67 first.

          Army church records were also kept by regimental number. So, for example,
          if you enter the following into the LDS catalog key word search: Osterreich.
          Armee. Infanterie Regiment 046
          The grundbuchblatter and Kirchenbuch (church book)for IR46 will come up.

          By the way, Army regiments were made up of several battalions. The
          regimental records are consequently subdivided by battalion. So, as you
          review the grundbuchblatter records, you will find sequential records for
          each battalion separately. The officers of each battalion will be listed
          first followed by the enlisted men. You will also find that the officer's
          birth years are different from those of the enlisted men so don't get
          confused. The most senior officers were obviously much older than the
          troops. Make sure you review each battalion for the birth year of your
          ancestor and record the battalion number when you find him. That will help
          you when you review the military history of the regiment.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Carl,
          >
          > I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869
          for
          > Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY,
          born
          > circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
          > might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just
          not
          > my line of ancestor.
          >
          > About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some
          sort.
          > T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
          > 1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I
          am
          > guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what
          else
          > the title indicates. Do you know?
          >
          > As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS'
          occupation
          > was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or
          hor)
          > katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married
          a
          > man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
          > Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I
          would
          > think I would see katona all over the records.
          >
          > Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding
          military
          > church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily
          find
          > anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
          > tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter
          baptism
          > record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki
          86".
          > It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
          > children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US.
          I
          > assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's
          death.
          > Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.
          >
          > Sandra
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          > Behalf Of Carl
          > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
          >
          >
          >
          > Sandra,
          > Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
          > soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
          > left out the "not".
          > CK
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Sandra,
          > > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure
          that
          > it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be
          on
          > furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they
          had
          > completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married
          while on
          > military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
          > 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
          > Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
          > can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he
          would
          > have been in the service for a very long time.
          > >
          > > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria
          had
          > until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
          > uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers
          died
          > of diseases too.
          > >
          > > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
          > both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46
          or
          > IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with
          IR46
          > in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is
          just
          > no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
          > regimental number?
          > >
          > > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can
          provide
          > you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about
          what
          > their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one
          with
          > Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very
          interested
          > in.
          > >
          > > Carl
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
          > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Carl,
          > > >
          > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I
          am
          > very
          > > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
          > move
          > > > onto Saros...
          > > >
          > > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
          > born
          > > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
          > records
          > > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
          > > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
          > retired
          > > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33
          years
          > old
          > > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
          > marriage
          > > > was at age 33.
          > > >
          > > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted
          occupation,
          > > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
          > supported
          > > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
          > > >
          > > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
          > With a
          > > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check
          late
          > > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
          > > >
          > > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
          > 1874,
          > > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his
          widow.
          > > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
          > there a
          > > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family
          circa
          > > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
          > > >
          > > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
          > find.
          > > > Sandra
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          > > > Behalf Of Carl
          > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
          > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hello again Sandra,
          > > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
          > for
          > > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
          > > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
          > > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you
          will
          > find
          > > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
          > You can
          > > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
          > Word"
          > > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
          > records
          > > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
          > Muster
          > > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
          > web
          > > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
          > of a
          > > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
          > example is
          > > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
          > current
          > > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
          > Zemplen.
          > > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in
          Slovakia
          > except
          > > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
          > the
          > > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about
          that.
          > > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
          > some
          > > > other relative.
          > > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
          > > > CK
          > > >
          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta"
          <pman40@>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hello,
          > > > >
          > > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
          > > > Military
          > > > > Records and have a few questions.
          > > > >
          > > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
          > County.
          > > > From
          > > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
          > Which
          > > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
          > years
          > > > 1817
          > > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
          > for
          > > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
          > > > >
          > > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at
          the
          > age
          > > > of
          > > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
          > for
          > > > me to
          > > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined
          the
          > > > > recruiting location was 066.
          > > > >
          > > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up
          with
          > > > records
          > > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
          > Second
          > > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not
          indexed?
          > I
          > > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make
          sure
          > this
          > > > is
          > > > > the way to go.
          > > > >
          > > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
          > both
          > > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
          > > > question -
          > > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
          > from
          > > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the
          appropriate
          > > > years?
          > > > >
          > > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
          > again,
          > > > they
          > > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
          > rolls.
          > > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
          > Zemplen?
          > > > >
          > > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
          > Zemplen
          > > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
          > > > > Sandra Panzitta
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          > > > > Behalf Of Carl
          > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
          > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
          > Austro-Hungary
          > > > > Military Records
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for
          my
          > > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
          > > > suggestions
          > > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
          > Bill
          > > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
          > the
          > > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
          > > > > Carl Kotlarchik
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
          > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
          > Records
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
          > about
          > > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
          > > > Kotlarchik
          > > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
          > > > easy-to
          > > > > read paper.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
          > > > resources
          > > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
          > region
          > > > of
          > > > > the empire.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
          > > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
          > bibliography.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
          > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us
          the
          > > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Excerpt:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
          > > > > >
          > > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
          > > > > >
          > > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary
          resource
          > for
          > > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
          > to a
          > > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
          > dates. It
          > > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
          > their
          > > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one
          first
          > > > needs
          > > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept
          at
          > > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records
          were
          > > > also
          > > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
          > Consequently,
          > > > it
          > > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about
          the
          > > > history
          > > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






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