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Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records

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  • Carl
    Sandra, You seem to be right on track for locating the military records. Here are my responses to your questions. Q1. Does this mean the records for 1817 to
    Message 1 of 12 , May 31, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Sandra,
      You seem to be right on track for locating the military records. Here are my responses to your questions.

      Q1. Does this mean the records for 1817 to 1856 are lost?
      No,I think it means that the army did not recruit in Zemplen during those years. Infantry regiment 34 recruited there in the years before and after this time period. Infantry regiment 66 recruited there after 1861.

      Q2. Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed?
      The year of birth (1839)of your GGGF Janos makes finding finding the correct infantry regiment a little tricky. He would have likely been conscripted at ages from 20 to 22. So, if he drafted before 1861, he would have likely been in infantry regiment 34. But if he was drafted after 1861, he could have been in infantry regiment 66. Consequently, I would check both. For IR66, I would start with films 1393776 and 1393777. These should have the earliest years of the 1860s. For IR34, I'd begin with films 1325491 and 1325492. These cover the years of 1857 to 1860. In all cases, look through the films until you start seeing the birth years listed as 1839. If you don't find them in those films, you might have to check films 1325498-1325500. Although, he could have been in either of these regiments, I would recommend starting with IR66. The reason is that Austria fought two major wars during the 1860s and had to conscript many soldiers during those years. Most soldiers were in the infantry so that is your best bet, but there is always the possibility that Janos was in a different type of unit. If you do find his records, you will be able to learn exactly what his regiment did during those wars from the regimental histories.

      Q3. I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034?
      That is correct for the years before 1820. For the years of 1857-1860 for IR34, use the Grundbuchblatter records.

      Q4. Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
      If you know the birth years of your male ancestors, you can narrow down the films to those covering those years. Many of the films do indicate the draft years covered. But remember, the years on the film titles will be 20+ years after the birth year. However, in the actual records, only the birth year is listed and not the draft year.

      Good luck to you and please let me know what you find (or do not find). Zemplen is unique because there are also some muster lists for this county that are available for the 1880s. I'll have to check what is available for Trebisov and send you a second note.

      CK

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian Military
      > Records and have a few questions.
      >
      > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen County. From
      > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations. Which
      > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under years 1817
      > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records for
      > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
      >
      > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the age of
      > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order for me to
      > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
      > recruiting location was 066.
      >
      > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with records
      > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82). Second
      > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed? I
      > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure this is
      > the way to go.
      >
      > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801, both
      > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third question -
      > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again from
      > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate years?
      >
      > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but again, they
      > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28 rolls.
      > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
      >
      > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in Zemplen
      > County. Am I going about this correctly?
      >
      > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
      > Sandra Panzitta
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      > Behalf Of Carl
      > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary
      > Military Records
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
      > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive suggestions
      > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately, Bill
      > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is the
      > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > Carl Kotlarchik
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
      > >
      > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information about
      > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl Kotlarchik
      > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an easy-to
      > read paper.
      > >
      > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available resources
      > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific region of
      > the empire.
      > >
      > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
      > headers, links to essential information and an extensive bibliography.
      > >
      > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
      > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
      > >
      > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
      > knowledge he gained in his search.
      > >
      > > Excerpt:
      > >
      > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
      > >
      > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
      > >
      > > by Carl Kotlarchik
      > >
      > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource for
      > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth to a
      > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and dates. It
      > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during their
      > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
      > >
      > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first needs
      > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
      > different locations during various periods of time. The records were also
      > kept differently for the various states within the Empire. Consequently, it
      > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the history
      > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
      > >
      > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Carl
      Hello again Sandra, Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov for the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled: Katonai
      Message 2 of 12 , May 31, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello again Sandra,
        Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov for the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
        Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will find them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov. You can find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key Word" search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the records for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls. Muster lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's web site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example of a muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this example is not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for current Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for Zemplen. They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia except for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at the Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
        I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with some other relative.
        Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
        CK

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian Military
        > Records and have a few questions.
        >
        > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen County. From
        > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations. Which
        > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under years 1817
        > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records for
        > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
        >
        > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the age of
        > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order for me to
        > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
        > recruiting location was 066.
        >
        > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with records
        > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82). Second
        > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed? I
        > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure this is
        > the way to go.
        >
        > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801, both
        > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third question -
        > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again from
        > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate years?
        >
        > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but again, they
        > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28 rolls.
        > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
        >
        > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in Zemplen
        > County. Am I going about this correctly?
        >
        > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
        > Sandra Panzitta
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
        > Behalf Of Carl
        > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary
        > Military Records
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
        > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive suggestions
        > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately, Bill
        > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is the
        > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
        > Carl Kotlarchik
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
        > >
        > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information about
        > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl Kotlarchik
        > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an easy-to
        > read paper.
        > >
        > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available resources
        > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific region of
        > the empire.
        > >
        > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
        > headers, links to essential information and an extensive bibliography.
        > >
        > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
        > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
        > >
        > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
        > knowledge he gained in his search.
        > >
        > > Excerpt:
        > >
        > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
        > >
        > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
        > >
        > > by Carl Kotlarchik
        > >
        > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource for
        > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth to a
        > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and dates. It
        > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during their
        > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
        > >
        > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first needs
        > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
        > different locations during various periods of time. The records were also
        > kept differently for the various states within the Empire. Consequently, it
        > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the history
        > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
        > >
        > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Sandra/John Panzitta
        Hi Carl, Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am very much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I move
        Message 3 of 12 , May 31, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Carl,

          Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am very
          much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I move
          onto Saros...

          My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was born
          in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth records
          from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
          Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a retired
          or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years old
          and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first marriage
          was at age 33.

          I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
          retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was supported
          by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?

          I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS. With a
          possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
          1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)

          Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in 1874,
          1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
          There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was there a
          military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
          1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?

          I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I find.
          Sandra
          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of Carl
          Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



          Hello again Sandra,
          Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov for
          the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
          Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
          ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will find
          them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov. You can
          find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key Word"
          search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the records
          for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls. Muster
          lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's web
          site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example of a
          muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this example is
          not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for current
          Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for Zemplen.
          They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia except
          for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at the
          Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
          I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with some
          other relative.
          Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
          CK

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
          Military
          > Records and have a few questions.
          >
          > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen County.
          From
          > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations. Which
          > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under years
          1817
          > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records for
          > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
          >
          > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the age
          of
          > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order for
          me to
          > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
          > recruiting location was 066.
          >
          > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
          records
          > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82). Second
          > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed? I
          > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure this
          is
          > the way to go.
          >
          > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801, both
          > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
          question -
          > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again from
          > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
          years?
          >
          > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but again,
          they
          > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28 rolls.
          > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
          >
          > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in Zemplen
          > County. Am I going about this correctly?
          >
          > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
          > Sandra Panzitta
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
          > Behalf Of Carl
          > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary
          > Military Records
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
          > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
          suggestions
          > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately, Bill
          > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is the
          > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
          > Carl Kotlarchik
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
          > >
          > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information about
          > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
          Kotlarchik
          > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
          easy-to
          > read paper.
          > >
          > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
          resources
          > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific region
          of
          > the empire.
          > >
          > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
          > headers, links to essential information and an extensive bibliography.
          > >
          > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
          > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
          > >
          > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
          > knowledge he gained in his search.
          > >
          > > Excerpt:
          > >
          > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
          > >
          > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
          > >
          > > by Carl Kotlarchik
          > >
          > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource for
          > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth to a
          > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and dates. It
          > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during their
          > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
          > >
          > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
          needs
          > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
          > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
          also
          > kept differently for the various states within the Empire. Consequently,
          it
          > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
          history
          > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
          > >
          > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carl
          Hi Sandra, That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I m sure that it means retired soldier . The Hungarian word szabadsagon means to be
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Sandra,
            That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would have been in the service for a very long time.

            The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died of diseases too.

            You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46 in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible regimental number?

            If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested in.

            Carl

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Carl,
            >
            > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am very
            > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I move
            > onto Saros...
            >
            > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was born
            > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth records
            > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
            > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a retired
            > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years old
            > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first marriage
            > was at age 33.
            >
            > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
            > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was supported
            > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
            >
            > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS. With a
            > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
            > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
            >
            > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in 1874,
            > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
            > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was there a
            > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
            > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
            >
            > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I find.
            > Sandra
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
            > Behalf Of Carl
            > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello again Sandra,
            > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov for
            > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
            > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
            > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will find
            > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov. You can
            > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key Word"
            > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the records
            > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls. Muster
            > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's web
            > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example of a
            > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this example is
            > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for current
            > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for Zemplen.
            > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia except
            > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at the
            > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
            > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with some
            > other relative.
            > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
            > CK
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > >
            > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
            > Military
            > > Records and have a few questions.
            > >
            > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen County.
            > From
            > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations. Which
            > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under years
            > 1817
            > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records for
            > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
            > >
            > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the age
            > of
            > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order for
            > me to
            > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
            > > recruiting location was 066.
            > >
            > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
            > records
            > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82). Second
            > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed? I
            > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure this
            > is
            > > the way to go.
            > >
            > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801, both
            > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
            > question -
            > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again from
            > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
            > years?
            > >
            > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but again,
            > they
            > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28 rolls.
            > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
            > >
            > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in Zemplen
            > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
            > >
            > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
            > > Sandra Panzitta
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
            > > Behalf Of Carl
            > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary
            > > Military Records
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
            > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
            > suggestions
            > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately, Bill
            > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is the
            > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
            > > Carl Kotlarchik
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
            > > >
            > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information about
            > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
            > Kotlarchik
            > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
            > easy-to
            > > read paper.
            > > >
            > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
            > resources
            > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific region
            > of
            > > the empire.
            > > >
            > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
            > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive bibliography.
            > > >
            > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
            > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
            > > >
            > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
            > > knowledge he gained in his search.
            > > >
            > > > Excerpt:
            > > >
            > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
            > > >
            > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
            > > >
            > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
            > > >
            > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource for
            > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth to a
            > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and dates. It
            > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during their
            > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
            > > >
            > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
            > needs
            > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
            > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
            > also
            > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire. Consequently,
            > it
            > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
            > history
            > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
            > > >
            > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Frank R Plichta
            The discussion of the AH military records reminds me of an earlier success. I had a World War I postcard from my grandfather addressed to his wife. The
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              The discussion of the AH military records reminds me of an earlier success.

              I had a World War I postcard from my grandfather addressed to his wife. The
              postmark is March 6, 1916 from KREMS a. DONAU (village Krems on the Danub
              River). On the postcard were rubber stamped markings from a Reserve
              Hospital.

              In 1996, I visited the Kreigsarchiv (Military Archives) in Vienna, Austria
              because The Kreigsarchiv is located at Nottendorfer Gasse #2, 1030 Wein.
              The postcard had a photo on one side with a group of AH soldiers in a
              variety of uniforms. The military archivist at the Kreigsarchiv told me
              that during WWI there were approximately 3,500 hospitals in various types of
              institutions such as; convents, schools, monasteries, etc. He stated that
              there were 5 or 6 such hospitals in Krems. The hospital records were
              available at the Archives but as of 1996 no definitive study had been
              completed for the records. I was told that a study was planned in about
              three years.

              In 2006 I returned to the Kreigsarchiv and asked about the hospital records
              archive. I was asked to leave my name and address and the name of my
              grandfather with his birth date. They made a photocopy of my grandfather's
              1916 postcard.

              Approximately 3 weeks after I returned home, I received a packet in the mail
              with 8 pages of my grandfather's medical records showing that he had two
              hospital admissions. The medical history and physical stated that he had
              been sick since 1914 and that he suffered from Tuberculosis, Fungus and
              Anemia. The medical records are written in German. In addition to his
              medical information, including daily medical notes from the doctors, the
              forms also showed his military information.

              He joined the military in 1908 and was a member of Infantry Regiment 34.
              After his second hospital discharge on March 10, 1917 he was given three
              months of leave from the military to recover. They even sent me a photocopy
              of the military leave authorization from the Infantry Regiment 34.

              So if you have any indication that your ancestor was hospitalized in WWI,
              records are available at Vienna.

              Frank Plichta

              Galax, VA



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carl
              Sandra, Oops, I meant to say that I m NOT sure that the words mean retired soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I left out the not . CK
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Sandra,
                Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
                left out the "not".
                CK
                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Sandra,
                > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would have been in the service for a very long time.
                >
                > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died of diseases too.
                >
                > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46 in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible regimental number?
                >
                > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested in.
                >
                > Carl
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Carl,
                > >
                > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am very
                > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I move
                > > onto Saros...
                > >
                > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was born
                > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth records
                > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
                > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a retired
                > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years old
                > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first marriage
                > > was at age 33.
                > >
                > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
                > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was supported
                > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
                > >
                > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS. With a
                > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
                > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
                > >
                > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in 1874,
                > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
                > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was there a
                > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
                > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
                > >
                > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I find.
                > > Sandra
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                > > Behalf Of Carl
                > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hello again Sandra,
                > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov for
                > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
                > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
                > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will find
                > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov. You can
                > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key Word"
                > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the records
                > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls. Muster
                > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's web
                > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example of a
                > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this example is
                > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for current
                > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for Zemplen.
                > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia except
                > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at the
                > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
                > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with some
                > > other relative.
                > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
                > > CK
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello,
                > > >
                > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
                > > Military
                > > > Records and have a few questions.
                > > >
                > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen County.
                > > From
                > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations. Which
                > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under years
                > > 1817
                > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records for
                > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
                > > >
                > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the age
                > > of
                > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order for
                > > me to
                > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
                > > > recruiting location was 066.
                > > >
                > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
                > > records
                > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82). Second
                > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed? I
                > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure this
                > > is
                > > > the way to go.
                > > >
                > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801, both
                > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
                > > question -
                > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again from
                > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
                > > years?
                > > >
                > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but again,
                > > they
                > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28 rolls.
                > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for Zemplen?
                > > >
                > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in Zemplen
                > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
                > > > Sandra Panzitta
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                > > > Behalf Of Carl
                > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
                > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary
                > > > Military Records
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
                > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
                > > suggestions
                > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately, Bill
                > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is the
                > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                > > > Carl Kotlarchik
                > > >
                > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                > > > >
                > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information about
                > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
                > > Kotlarchik
                > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
                > > easy-to
                > > > read paper.
                > > > >
                > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
                > > resources
                > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific region
                > > of
                > > > the empire.
                > > > >
                > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
                > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive bibliography.
                > > > >
                > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
                > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
                > > > >
                > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
                > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
                > > > >
                > > > > Excerpt:
                > > > >
                > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
                > > > >
                > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
                > > > >
                > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
                > > > >
                > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource for
                > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth to a
                > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and dates. It
                > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during their
                > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
                > > > >
                > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
                > > needs
                > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
                > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
                > > also
                > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire. Consequently,
                > > it
                > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
                > > history
                > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                > > > >
                > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Sandra/John Panzitta
                Hi Carl, I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY,
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Carl,

                  I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for
                  Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY, born
                  circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
                  might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just not
                  my line of ancestor.

                  About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some sort.
                  T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
                  1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I am
                  guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what else
                  the title indicates. Do you know?

                  As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS' occupation
                  was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or hor)
                  katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married a
                  man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
                  Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I would
                  think I would see katona all over the records.

                  Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding military
                  church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily find
                  anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
                  tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter baptism
                  record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki 86".
                  It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
                  children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US. I
                  assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's death.
                  Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.

                  Sandra




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                  Behalf Of Carl
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



                  Sandra,
                  Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
                  soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
                  left out the "not".
                  CK
                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Sandra,
                  > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that
                  it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on
                  furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had
                  completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on
                  military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
                  1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
                  Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
                  can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would
                  have been in the service for a very long time.
                  >
                  > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had
                  until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
                  uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died
                  of diseases too.
                  >
                  > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
                  both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or
                  IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46
                  in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just
                  no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
                  regimental number?
                  >
                  > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide
                  you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what
                  their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with
                  Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested
                  in.
                  >
                  > Carl
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Carl,
                  > >
                  > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am
                  very
                  > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
                  move
                  > > onto Saros...
                  > >
                  > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
                  born
                  > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
                  records
                  > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
                  > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
                  retired
                  > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years
                  old
                  > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
                  marriage
                  > > was at age 33.
                  > >
                  > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
                  > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
                  supported
                  > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
                  > >
                  > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
                  With a
                  > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
                  > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
                  > >
                  > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
                  1874,
                  > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
                  > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
                  there a
                  > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
                  > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
                  > >
                  > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
                  find.
                  > > Sandra
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                  > > Behalf Of Carl
                  > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hello again Sandra,
                  > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
                  for
                  > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
                  > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
                  > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will
                  find
                  > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
                  You can
                  > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
                  Word"
                  > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
                  records
                  > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
                  Muster
                  > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
                  web
                  > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
                  of a
                  > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
                  example is
                  > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
                  current
                  > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
                  Zemplen.
                  > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia
                  except
                  > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
                  the
                  > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
                  > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
                  some
                  > > other relative.
                  > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
                  > > CK
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello,
                  > > >
                  > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
                  > > Military
                  > > > Records and have a few questions.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
                  County.
                  > > From
                  > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
                  Which
                  > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
                  years
                  > > 1817
                  > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
                  for
                  > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
                  > > >
                  > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the
                  age
                  > > of
                  > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
                  for
                  > > me to
                  > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
                  > > > recruiting location was 066.
                  > > >
                  > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
                  > > records
                  > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
                  Second
                  > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed?
                  I
                  > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure
                  this
                  > > is
                  > > > the way to go.
                  > > >
                  > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
                  both
                  > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
                  > > question -
                  > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
                  from
                  > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
                  > > years?
                  > > >
                  > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
                  again,
                  > > they
                  > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
                  rolls.
                  > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
                  Zemplen?
                  > > >
                  > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
                  Zemplen
                  > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
                  > > > Sandra Panzitta
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                  > > > Behalf Of Carl
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
                  > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
                  Austro-Hungary
                  > > > Military Records
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
                  > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
                  > > suggestions
                  > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
                  Bill
                  > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
                  the
                  > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                  > > > Carl Kotlarchik
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
                  wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
                  Records
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
                  about
                  > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
                  > > Kotlarchik
                  > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
                  > > easy-to
                  > > > read paper.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
                  > > resources
                  > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
                  region
                  > > of
                  > > > the empire.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
                  > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
                  bibliography.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
                  > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
                  > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Excerpt:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
                  > > > >
                  > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
                  > > > >
                  > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource
                  for
                  > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
                  to a
                  > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
                  dates. It
                  > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
                  their
                  > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
                  > > needs
                  > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
                  > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
                  > > also
                  > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
                  Consequently,
                  > > it
                  > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
                  > > history
                  > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carl
                  Hi Sandra, I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Sandra,
                    I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments do have indexes of soldiers which makes it much easier to find their records. But the Hungarian regiments and the ones from Galatia are organized only by regimental number.

                    While IR 20 did recruit in Saros (and Szepes) for a short time in the late 1850s, this regiment recruited primarily in Galatia and not Hungary. So, I would recommend starting with IR46 and IR67 first.

                    Army church records were also kept by regimental number. So, for example, if you enter the following into the LDS catalog key word search: Osterreich. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 046
                    The grundbuchblatter and Kirchenbuch (church book)for IR46 will come up.

                    By the way, Army regiments were made up of several battalions. The regimental records are consequently subdivided by battalion. So, as you review the grundbuchblatter records, you will find sequential records for each battalion separately. The officers of each battalion will be listed first followed by the enlisted men. You will also find that the officer's birth years are different from those of the enlisted men so don't get confused. The most senior officers were obviously much older than the troops. Make sure you review each battalion for the birth year of your ancestor and record the battalion number when you find him. That will help you when you review the military history of the regiment.


                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Carl,
                    >
                    > I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869 for
                    > Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY, born
                    > circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
                    > might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just not
                    > my line of ancestor.
                    >
                    > About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some sort.
                    > T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
                    > 1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I am
                    > guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what else
                    > the title indicates. Do you know?
                    >
                    > As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS' occupation
                    > was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or hor)
                    > katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married a
                    > man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
                    > Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I would
                    > think I would see katona all over the records.
                    >
                    > Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding military
                    > church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily find
                    > anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
                    > tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter baptism
                    > record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki 86".
                    > It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
                    > children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US. I
                    > assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's death.
                    > Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.
                    >
                    > Sandra
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                    > Behalf Of Carl
                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sandra,
                    > Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
                    > soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
                    > left out the "not".
                    > CK
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Sandra,
                    > > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure that
                    > it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be on
                    > furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they had
                    > completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married while on
                    > military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
                    > 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
                    > Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
                    > can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he would
                    > have been in the service for a very long time.
                    > >
                    > > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria had
                    > until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
                    > uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers died
                    > of diseases too.
                    > >
                    > > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
                    > both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46 or
                    > IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with IR46
                    > in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is just
                    > no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
                    > regimental number?
                    > >
                    > > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can provide
                    > you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about what
                    > their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one with
                    > Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very interested
                    > in.
                    > >
                    > > Carl
                    > >
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Carl,
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I am
                    > very
                    > > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
                    > move
                    > > > onto Saros...
                    > > >
                    > > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
                    > born
                    > > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
                    > records
                    > > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
                    > > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
                    > retired
                    > > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33 years
                    > old
                    > > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
                    > marriage
                    > > > was at age 33.
                    > > >
                    > > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted occupation,
                    > > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
                    > supported
                    > > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
                    > > >
                    > > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
                    > With a
                    > > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check late
                    > > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
                    > > >
                    > > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
                    > 1874,
                    > > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his widow.
                    > > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
                    > there a
                    > > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family circa
                    > > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
                    > find.
                    > > > Sandra
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                    > > > Behalf Of Carl
                    > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
                    > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello again Sandra,
                    > > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
                    > for
                    > > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
                    > > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
                    > > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you will
                    > find
                    > > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
                    > You can
                    > > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
                    > Word"
                    > > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
                    > records
                    > > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
                    > Muster
                    > > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
                    > web
                    > > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
                    > of a
                    > > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
                    > example is
                    > > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
                    > current
                    > > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
                    > Zemplen.
                    > > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in Slovakia
                    > except
                    > > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
                    > the
                    > > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about that.
                    > > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
                    > some
                    > > > other relative.
                    > > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
                    > > > CK
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
                    > > > Military
                    > > > > Records and have a few questions.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
                    > County.
                    > > > From
                    > > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
                    > Which
                    > > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
                    > years
                    > > > 1817
                    > > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
                    > for
                    > > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at the
                    > age
                    > > > of
                    > > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
                    > for
                    > > > me to
                    > > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined the
                    > > > > recruiting location was 066.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up with
                    > > > records
                    > > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
                    > Second
                    > > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not indexed?
                    > I
                    > > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make sure
                    > this
                    > > > is
                    > > > > the way to go.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
                    > both
                    > > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
                    > > > question -
                    > > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
                    > from
                    > > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the appropriate
                    > > > years?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
                    > again,
                    > > > they
                    > > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
                    > rolls.
                    > > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
                    > Zemplen?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
                    > Zemplen
                    > > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
                    > > > > Sandra Panzitta
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                    > > > > Behalf Of Carl
                    > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
                    > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
                    > Austro-Hungary
                    > > > > Military Records
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for my
                    > > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
                    > > > suggestions
                    > > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
                    > Bill
                    > > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
                    > the
                    > > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                    > > > > Carl Kotlarchik
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
                    > Records
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
                    > about
                    > > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
                    > > > Kotlarchik
                    > > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
                    > > > easy-to
                    > > > > read paper.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
                    > > > resources
                    > > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
                    > region
                    > > > of
                    > > > > the empire.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
                    > > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
                    > bibliography.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
                    > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us the
                    > > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Excerpt:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary resource
                    > for
                    > > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
                    > to a
                    > > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
                    > dates. It
                    > > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
                    > their
                    > > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one first
                    > > > needs
                    > > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept at
                    > > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records were
                    > > > also
                    > > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
                    > Consequently,
                    > > > it
                    > > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about the
                    > > > history
                    > > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Sandra/John Panzitta
                    Carl, Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these films today
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Carl,

                      Thanks so much for educating yourself about Austro-Hungarian military
                      records, I am so grateful you share your expertise. I will order these
                      films today and hopefully, in a month or so, I will be reporting back my
                      successes!

                      Sandra
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of Carl
                      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:06 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records



                      Hi Sandra,
                      I agree with you that the film looks like an index (probably of names). I
                      have not seen that for Hungarian regiments. Austrian and Czech regiments do
                      have indexes of soldiers which makes it much easier to find their records.
                      But the Hungarian regiments and the ones from Galatia are organized only by
                      regimental number.

                      While IR 20 did recruit in Saros (and Szepes) for a short time in the late
                      1850s, this regiment recruited primarily in Galatia and not Hungary. So, I
                      would recommend starting with IR46 and IR67 first.

                      Army church records were also kept by regimental number. So, for example,
                      if you enter the following into the LDS catalog key word search: Osterreich.
                      Armee. Infanterie Regiment 046
                      The grundbuchblatter and Kirchenbuch (church book)for IR46 will come up.

                      By the way, Army regiments were made up of several battalions. The
                      regimental records are consequently subdivided by battalion. So, as you
                      review the grundbuchblatter records, you will find sequential records for
                      each battalion separately. The officers of each battalion will be listed
                      first followed by the enlisted men. You will also find that the officer's
                      birth years are different from those of the enlisted men so don't get
                      confused. The most senior officers were obviously much older than the
                      troops. Make sure you review each battalion for the birth year of your
                      ancestor and record the battalion number when you find him. That will help
                      you when you review the military history of the regiment.

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Carl,
                      >
                      > I am looking over the LDS catalog and found Grundbuchblatter, 1820-1869
                      for
                      > Regiment 020. As a reminder, I am looking for my GGGF JANOS VIDUMSZKY,
                      born
                      > circa 1838. No, there are no church records indicating what regiment he
                      > might have served in - I have seen records with that information, just
                      not
                      > my line of ancestor.
                      >
                      > About the Grundbuchblatter for 020, film #1217215 is an index of some
                      sort.
                      > T-Z Index Abgang Klasse 1850-1860 4. Battalion 1857-1860 1.3. Battalion
                      > 1857-1860 Effektiv 1860-1869 A-M. Since there is a roll labeled A-T, I
                      am
                      > guessing it is alphabetical, but other than that, I have no idea what
                      else
                      > the title indicates. Do you know?
                      >
                      > As a side note, I looked over the 1869 census and while JANOS'
                      occupation
                      > was farmer helper, in the notes column, there is szabadsagos (hoz or
                      hor)
                      > katona. I have to say I find it odd. As my grandmother's sister married
                      a
                      > man with the last name Katona, I notice the word when I look at records.
                      > Katona was not an overused word. If all able young men were drafted, I
                      would
                      > think I would see katona all over the records.
                      >
                      > Thanks for clearing up the meaning of szabadsagon. About finding
                      military
                      > church books, I looked for them in the LDS library and did not readily
                      find
                      > anything for Saros 1879 - 1883. Did you see any? I'd like to order them
                      > tomorrow. I don't know if this is related, but on Janos' daughter
                      baptism
                      > record, in the notes column is the following "arva ugy (or igy) 1/7, ki
                      86".
                      > It is indicating the child was orphaned. After her birth, two additional
                      > children were born and her mother remarried in 1883 and came to the US.
                      I
                      > assume this has something to do with her father, Janos Vidumszky's
                      death.
                      > Just thought I'd throw that out there and see if you had thoughts.
                      >
                      > Sandra
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                      > Behalf Of Carl
                      > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:04 AM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sandra,
                      > Oops, I meant to say that I'm NOT sure that the words mean retired
                      > soldier. I see that in my earlier message that I
                      > left out the "not".
                      > CK
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <kotlarchik@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Sandra,
                      > > That is an interesting notation (szabadsagols katona). But I'm sure
                      that
                      > it means "retired soldier". The Hungarian word "szabadsagon" means to be
                      on
                      > furlough or on leave. Soldiers were allowed to get married after they
                      had
                      > completed their first tour of duty. So, maybe your GGGF got married
                      while on
                      > military leave. If he died while still in the army sometime between
                      > 1879-1883, his death might be recorded in his regimental
                      > Militarkirchenbucher (military church book) which might explain why you
                      > can't find it in his home church records. But that would mean that he
                      would
                      > have been in the service for a very long time.
                      > >
                      > > The Seven Weeks War in 1866 was the last major conflict that Austria
                      had
                      > until WWI. But the army was used by the empire to put down internal
                      > uprisings especially in the Balkans. And like everyone else, soldiers
                      died
                      > of diseases too.
                      > >
                      > > You have quite a challenge ahead of you because of the birth years of
                      > both your GGGFs. As you mentioned, the one from Saros could be in IR46
                      or
                      > IR67. But he could also have been in IR20 which recruited in Saros with
                      IR46
                      > in the late 1850s. I wish I could help you narrow it down but there is
                      just
                      > no way of knowing. Do any of the church records indicate a possible
                      > regimental number?
                      > >
                      > > If you do find the records for either of these ancestors, I can
                      provide
                      > you with several additional references which will tell you a lot about
                      what
                      > their regiments did during the wars with Denmark in 1864 and the one
                      with
                      > Prussia in 1866. This is a time period that I am personally very
                      interested
                      > in.
                      > >
                      > > Carl
                      > >
                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta" <pman40@>
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Carl,
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice locating military records. I
                      am
                      > very
                      > > > much looking forward to ordering the LDS films from Zemplen. Now I
                      > move
                      > > > onto Saros...
                      > > >
                      > > > My great-great-great grandfather JANOS VIDUMSZKY alias DEMJACKZI was
                      > born
                      > > > in Nemcovce, Saros County, circa 1838 or 1839 (there are no birth
                      > records
                      > > > from that time frame from his village). On his marriage record from
                      > > > Kapusany, Saros County, his occupation is "szabadsagols" katona - a
                      > retired
                      > > > or ex-service soldier, according to my researcher. Janos was 33
                      years
                      > old
                      > > > and it was his first marriage. I think it is interesting his first
                      > marriage
                      > > > was at age 33.
                      > > >
                      > > > I am wondering if there was any significance of his noted
                      occupation,
                      > > > retired soldier. I mean, was there a military pension that he was
                      > supported
                      > > > by? Did it mean he was recently discharged from the military?
                      > > >
                      > > > I am looking for guidance in locating his military record from LDS.
                      > With a
                      > > > possible birth date of 1838 or 1839, I am thinking I should check
                      late
                      > > > 1850's to early 1860's. (Grundbuchblatter 046 and 067)
                      > > >
                      > > > Another mystery to solve, Janos married in 1872 and had children in
                      > 1874,
                      > > > 1878 and 1879. In 1883, his wife remarried and was noted as his
                      widow.
                      > > > There is no record in the village of his death. I am wondering was
                      > there a
                      > > > military conflict that would have taken him away from his family
                      circa
                      > > > 1879-1883? Could he have been killed in service?
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm really excited to explore the military records and see what I
                      > find.
                      > > > Sandra
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                      > > > Behalf Of Carl
                      > > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 4:03 PM
                      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: [S-R] Locating Austro-Hungary Military Records
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello again Sandra,
                      > > > Well, you are in luck. There are muster lists available for Trebisov
                      > for
                      > > > the years of 1873-1884. These are entitled:
                      > > > Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek, 1873-1884. So, if you have any other
                      > > > ancestors who might have been in the army during those years, you
                      will
                      > find
                      > > > them in LDS films 629837 and 629838 which are specific for Trebisov.
                      > You can
                      > > > find the details of these films in the LDS catalog using the "Key
                      > Word"
                      > > > search function. Using the Key word: Trebisov, will bring up all the
                      > records
                      > > > for this town and you can scan down the list for the muster rolls.
                      > Muster
                      > > > lists have quite a bit of information. If you go to Bill Tarkulich's
                      > web
                      > > > site and look under the "Military" heading, you will find an example
                      > of a
                      > > > muster list and the translations of the headings. (note that this
                      > example is
                      > > > not in my article) Muster lists for this time period only exist for
                      > current
                      > > > Hungarian counties with the exception of the additional ones for
                      > Zemplen.
                      > > > They are not available for any other Hungarian county now in
                      Slovakia
                      > except
                      > > > for Zemplen. I believe these were accidentally filmed by the LDS at
                      > the
                      > > > Hungarian archive at Satoraljaujhely but I could be wrong about
                      that.
                      > > > I know this doesn't help you with Janos' records but hopefully with
                      > some
                      > > > other relative.
                      > > > Good luck, and please keep me posted on what you find.
                      > > > CK
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra/John Panzitta"
                      <pman40@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have read Carl Kotlarchik's guide to locating Austro-Hungarian
                      > > > Military
                      > > > > Records and have a few questions.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am looking to locate military records from Trebisov, Zemplen
                      > County.
                      > > > From
                      > > > > Carl's article, on Appendix A, I found the recruiting locations.
                      > Which
                      > > > > brings the first question - On Appendix A, there is a dash under
                      > years
                      > > > 1817
                      > > > > and 1853. The next column is year 1857. Does this mean the records
                      > for
                      > > > > 1817 to 1856 are lost?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My great-great grandfather JANOS PETRENY, born 1839, married at
                      the
                      > age
                      > > > of
                      > > > > 28 in 1867, a near certain indicator of military service. In order
                      > for
                      > > > me to
                      > > > > locate the appropriate LDS films, using Appendix A, I determined
                      the
                      > > > > recruiting location was 066.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I searched the LDS Library for Grundbuchblatter 066 and came up
                      with
                      > > > records
                      > > > > from 1861 to 1869. There are seven rolls of film (#1393776-82).
                      > Second
                      > > > > question - Do I order all seven rolls, as the rolls are not
                      indexed?
                      > I
                      > > > > have no problem going through seven rolls, I just want to make
                      sure
                      > this
                      > > > is
                      > > > > the way to go.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I also searched for earlier recruitments of years 1781 and 1801,
                      > both
                      > > > > locations were 039. Years 1809 and 1853 were location 034. Third
                      > > > question -
                      > > > > I assume I use Musterlisten und Standestabellen 039 and 034, again
                      > from
                      > > > > information found on Appendix A. I would then order the
                      appropriate
                      > > > years?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > For Grundbuchblatter 034, the years 1841-1860 are available, but
                      > again,
                      > > > they
                      > > > > are not organized by year, but by "heft" or booklet. There are 28
                      > rolls.
                      > > > > Fourth question - Any hints on how to narrow down the rolls for
                      > Zemplen?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am looking for all possible LDS military films for Trebisov in
                      > Zemplen
                      > > > > County. Am I going about this correctly?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for your time this Memorial Day weekend,
                      > > > > Sandra Panzitta
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
                      > > > > Behalf Of Carl
                      > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:27 PM
                      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Announcing a New Guide for locating
                      > Austro-Hungary
                      > > > > Military Records
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Many, many thanks to Bill Tarkulich for providing a host site for
                      my
                      > > > > guide. I would also like to thank him for all his constructive
                      > > > suggestions
                      > > > > and all the work that he did to post the web page. Unfortunately,
                      > Bill
                      > > > > inadvertently put an extra period in the web site address. Here is
                      > the
                      > > > > correct link. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                      > > > > Carl Kotlarchik
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@>
                      > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Announcing a New Guide for locating Austro-Hungary Military
                      > Records
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Announcing a new guide to help researchers locate information
                      > about
                      > > > > ancestors who may have served in the Austro-Hungarian Army. Carl
                      > > > Kotlarchik
                      > > > > has generously shared his research knowledge on this subject in an
                      > > > easy-to
                      > > > > read paper.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Carl has put significant effort into describing the available
                      > > > resources
                      > > > > and how to locate them for a specific individual from a specific
                      > region
                      > > > of
                      > > > > the empire.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The paper contains document samples, translation of key document
                      > > > > headers, links to essential information and an extensive
                      > bibliography.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The paper may be viewed or downloaded at
                      > > > > http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > We all owe Carl a great debt of gratitude for sharing with us
                      the
                      > > > > knowledge he gained in his search.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Excerpt:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > A Guide for Locating Military Records for the various
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Regions of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > by Carl Kotlarchik
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > While military records are usually considered a secondary
                      resource
                      > for
                      > > > > genealogical researchers, knowledge of military service adds depth
                      > to a
                      > > > > family history and goes beyond just having a list of names and
                      > dates. It
                      > > > > provides insight into what an ancestor may have experienced during
                      > their
                      > > > > lifetime and gives a perspective of the history at that period.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > To find military records for the Austro-Hungarian Army, one
                      first
                      > > > needs
                      > > > > to determine where and how to look for them since they were kept
                      at
                      > > > > different locations during various periods of time. The records
                      were
                      > > > also
                      > > > > kept differently for the various states within the Empire.
                      > Consequently,
                      > > > it
                      > > > > can be a little confusing if one does not understand a bit about
                      the
                      > > > history
                      > > > > of the Austrian Empire and the subsequent Austro-Hungarian Empire.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Read more: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/ahm.html
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >






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