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[S-R] Re: Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"

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  • Mark
    Yeah, this is the case. Found them in their earliest US census (1900) under Heatash while in every other US and PA census following they are Hettish. As for
    Message 1 of 37 , May 3, 2010
      Yeah, this is the case. Found them in their earliest US census (1900) under Heatash while in every other US and PA census following they are Hettish.

      As for what variations I have tried, probably close to 50 or more. I'd do Soundex and Phonetic searches on a name, e.g. Hettish, and then plug back in the 5 or 10 variations that looked close, each of which would lead to a few new variations.

      For the front, I have used Het, Hed, Hai, Hei, Hat, Had, Haj, Ht, Hd, Che, Hu and others. For the ending, es, is, s, isch, ich, ydz, z, ez, and again others.

      I though the one key that would help would be the child that came over in 1896 at age 4. I've tried to do a basic search on all kids that age at that date (in case the spelling was really screwed up), but I can't get any of the search engines again Ellis Island to complete that generic a request.

      I'll keep plugging away, though I am stymied at the moment!

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      >
      > Funny. I'm going through one right now. We have the immigrant's
      > declaration of intent, which includes his immigration date, port and ship
      > name. Well, we found the manifest, but do you think I can find him on
      > there? I've even checked the detained aliens sheets. No dice. This is not
      > the first immigrant I've seen this happen to.
      >
      >
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Ron
      > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:07 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"
      >
      > Frank,
      >
      > Reading his statement I take it he has the census info but has not yet found
      > the immigration info. >>> From the census info, Mike immigrated in 1891 or
      > 1892 and his wife Anna in 1895/1896 with their 4 year old son John. You'd
      > think from this info I might be able to find their immigration records.>>>
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R Plichta" <frank.r.plichta@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Ron,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If Mark found his family, why would you suggest he try another spelling
      > > variation? I don't understand the logic.
      > >
      > > Frank
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > > Behalf Of Ron
      > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:47 AM
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > You don't list the variations you have tried and I have not reviewed all
      > of
      > > the postings in this thread to see what was suggested, so at the risk of
      > > repeating: have you tried Hungarian variations on the name? I have at
      > least
      > > two grandparents who came to the US under Hungarian spellings that were
      > > never used again in any documents I have encountered.
      > >
      > > The most obvious variations to me would be in the name ending, using a
      > plain
      > > s in place of sh, or adding a z before and after the s, with and without
      > the
      > > h. Certainly some of those are not proper Hungarian, but we are dealing
      > with
      > > perceived phonetic sounds in several languages. This is how Steve becomes
      > > Hungarian Istvan and can become Stif on an American record. That is a real
      > > example.
      > >
      > > Ron
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <hettishm@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for all the suggestions so far folks! Using one of the alterntive
      > > spelling suggestions here I was finally able to find them in the 1900
      > census
      > > using one of the soundex searches, under Heatash of all things! That
      > > spelling ONLY exists in the 1900 census, not other DBs.
      > > >
      > > > From the census info, Mike immigrated in 1891 or 1892 and his wife Anna
      > in
      > > 1895/1896 with their 4 year old son John. You'd think from this info I
      > might
      > > be able to find their immigration records.
      > > >
      > > > I swear I have used every combination of "hettish" with the soundex
      > > (ancestry.com) and the phonetic (Morse search on top of Ellis Island) and
      > > cannot find them. I have 2 possible for Mike (Hadas and something else)
      > but
      > > nothing pops for the mom and son around that timeframe.
      > > >
      > > > A few questions that might help me a bit:
      > > >
      > > > 1. Is that an alternate spelling of Anna that does not start with 'A'
      > that
      > > anyone knows of? I saw Hanya once.
      > > >
      > > > 2. One name that keeps coming up over and over again in Western PA, lots
      > > of them, is Hudak. Is there any dialect or accent-mark modifer that would
      > > make the hard K at the end into a softer, SH or CH sound? I did not see
      > > anything looking around and pronunciation sites but again, I am a novice
      > in
      > > this area for sure!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Mark
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > One long shot. If you can find a friendly priest at the byz church.
      > > > > Ask him to look up the christenings for your immigrants children. The
      > > > > parents place of birth is almost always listed. It is NOT listed on
      > > > > the christening certificate. It is in the church books.
      > > > > Don't forget to leave a nice donation.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bill
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Gina <Gina.PhilsPhan@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > Or possibly Hedash? There are several Hedash families in the coal
      > > > > > regions of
      > > > > > eastern PA, and I know that the family came from Slovakia. Perhaps
      > > > > > one of
      > > > > > them moved out to western PA?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <n8de@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >> How about Chedis' ?
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >> Don Havlicek
      > > > > >> Edmore, MI
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >> Quoting Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@<bill.tarkulich
      > > > > >> %40iabsi.com>
      > > > > >>> :
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>> Mark,
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> This should help immensely:
      > > > > >>> http://www.pa-
      > > <http://www.pa-roots.com/jefferson/townships/young/stpeterpaul.html>
      > > roots.com/jefferson/townships/young/stpeterpaul.html
      > > > > >>> Hint: there are a lot of misspellings on this list).
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> First observation, while this is a very select list, the fact that
      >
      > > > > >>> it has
      > > > > >>> village names is super-helpful. lots of folks from Galicia, which
      > is
      > > > > >>> today's Southern Poland, was Lemko-dialect Rusyns (Byzantine).
      > > > > >>> Also a lot
      > > > > >>> from Saros/Szepes old counties in Slovakia. Big tip-off. I'd be
      > > > > >>> looking
      > > > > >>> in these two regions.
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> Holubinka, Jurko From Smerek (Galicia) was not destined for Punx.
      > I
      > > > > >>> don't think anyone did.
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> I see a number of SMEREK, which is Galicia, Austria, today's
      > > > > >>> poland. This
      > > > > >>> is part of my research territory. Wiped out in Operation Vistula
      > > > > >>> in the
      > > > > >>> late 40s.
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> Search ellisisland.org with a last name "H" (everything could be
      > > > > >>> wrong)
      > > > > >>> and the village names you find. Doesn't look like Smerek - I tried
      >
      > > > > >>> that
      > > > > >>> one.
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> Here's one surname I see from Polana that I like: HEDESZ
      > > > > >>> Hint: sounds-alike, looks-alike.
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> Bill
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>> On Thu, April 29, 2010 12:34 pm, Mark wrote:
      > > > > >>>> Bill,
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> First, thanks for un-hijacking the thread! I was going to to this
      >
      > > > > >>>> next
      > > > > >>>> time I posted!
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> I'll tell you what I have seen from what documents.
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> Byzantine Catholics. The Hettish's that sill live in
      > > > > >>>> Punxsutawney, the
      > > > > >>>> original immigration area, are of the Byzantine persuasion. They
      > > > > >>>> are
      > > > > >>>> buried in Byzantine cemetaries. Only later did those that left
      > > > > >>>> the area
      > > > > >>>> move to Roman Catholicism.
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> I have not found a related Hettish on any ship manifest. I've
      > > > > >>>> looked at
      > > > > >>>> all sorts of alternative and none match up with the original
      > > > > >>>> Hettish's
      > > > > >>>> that landed in the coal mines of Punxsutawney. I plan to do a
      > > > > >>>> little
      > > > > >> more
      > > > > >>>> name matching and see if I come up with anything.
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> Country of origin language spoken were listed on the census (1920
      > I
      > > > > >>>> think). Austria-Hungary was listed as birthplace and Slovak was
      > > > > >>>> listed
      > > > > >> as
      > > > > >>>> language.
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> Maybe another clue: in one of the censuses, the family was listed
      >
      > > > > >>>> as
      > > > > >>>> Hettich but I disgarded that as a mistake. It was Hettish before
      > > > > >>>> that
      > > > > >> and
      > > > > >>>> Hettish after that.
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> Mark
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > > >>>> %40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > >> "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@>
      > > > > >>>> wrote:
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>> Mark,
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>> What primary source documents have you consulted to determine
      > your
      > > > > >>>>> immigrant's ethnicity? It sounds like you've been through ship
      > > > > >>>>> manifests.
      > > > > >>>>> How about their Immigration file? Social Security Application?
      > > > > >>>>> Baptismal record of their children? If you can trace back to the
      > > > > >>>>> correct
      > > > > >>>>> ancestral village (Job #1) you should be able to determine the
      > > > > >>>>> correct
      > > > > >>>>> spelling, and then develop a case from there.
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>> Bill
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>> On Wed, April 28, 2010 9:28 pm, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
      > > > > >>>>>> I just read this thread and I was quite confused until I
      > realized
      > > > > >> that
      > > > > >>>>>> MITRICSKA had hi-jacked this thread for his own research. It
      > > > > >>>>>> would be
      > > > > >>>>>> much
      > > > > >>>>>> better to start your own message thread with it's own title, so
      >
      > > > > >>>>>> we
      > > > > >> can
      > > > > >>>>>> follow things easier. I try to change the message title so when
      > > > > >>>>> people
      > > > > >>>>>> respond, the topic is clear.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> On to HETTISH. We need to test your assertions.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Facts and Assertion Tests:
      > > > > >>>>>> The MOST IMPORTANT thing Mark wrote so far:
      > > > > >>>>>> "appeared to have been Byzantine Catholics" If that's the case,
      >
      > > > > >>>>>> you
      > > > > >>>>>> belong
      > > > > >>>>>> in eastern Slovakia or south-eastern Poland or West Ukraine.
      > > > > >>>>>> Test one: how do you know this?
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Language Spoken: Slovak - Test two: " Country of origin was
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> listed as Austria-Hungary and language spoken was Slovak. "
      > > > > >>>>>> Where do
      > > > > >>>>> you
      > > > > >>>>>> have that information from?
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Let's test the HETTISH NAME with the surname database:
      > > > > >>>>>> http://slovnik. <http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk/> juls.savba.sk/
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> First interesting entry is HETS' located in Bratislava.
      > > > > >>>>>> Pronounced
      > > > > >>>>>> similarly to what you are rendering in English. Wrong part of
      > the
      > > > > >>>>>> country,
      > > > > >>>>>> but many people moved to Bratislava for work.
      > > > > >>>>>> Priezvisko HET© sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 2×,
      > > > > >>>>>> celkový
      > > > > >>>>> poèet
      > > > > >>>>>> lokalít: 1, v lokalitách:
      > > > > >>>>>> RAÈA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 2×;
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Next interesting one is HETE© (HETES) which also sounds si
      > > > > >>>>>> milar, but
      > > > > >>>>> most
      > > > > >>>>>> names are found in the west of Slovakia.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Have you considered looking for later family immigrants using
      > the
      > > > > >>>>> Ellis
      > > > > >>>>>> Island database? I would. A quick search found many HETES. It
      > may
      > > > > >>>>> lead
      > > > > >>>>>> you
      > > > > >>>>>> to his village in a better way, since later manifests contained
      >
      > > > > >>>>>> more
      > > > > >>>>> info.
      > > > > >>>>>> I think HETES, MARIA, from PALOCSA (PLAVEC) is interesting.
      > > > > >>>>>> Destined
      > > > > >>>>> for
      > > > > >>>>>> Bridgeport PA.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Lots of immigrants did NOT permanently settle in the first
      > > > > >>>>>> place they
      > > > > >>>>>> lived
      > > > > >>>>>> in once arriving here.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Bill
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
      > > > > >>>>>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > > >>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > >>>>> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > > >>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>]
      > > > > >>>>>> On
      > > > > >>>>>> Behalf Of Mark
      > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:00 PM
      > > > > >>>>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ???
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Thanks. Hettish is a pretty uncommon name in the US, I have
      > > > > >>>>>> only seen
      > > > > >>>>>> about
      > > > > >>>>>> 5 branches and two are pretty much dried up. The ones left are
      > in
      > > > > >>>>>> Erie,PA-Tennesee, California and Western PA-Texas (my branch).
      > > > > >>>>>> I do
      > > > > >>>>> know
      > > > > >>>>>> the
      > > > > >>>>>> Erie,PA immigrants were from Germany and appear unrelated.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> I also know that they MIGHT have used the "ch" sound at the end
      >
      > > > > >>>>>> at
      > > > > >>>>> times
      > > > > >>>>>> because in one US census they were Hettich. But, that could
      > > > > >>>>>> have been
      > > > > >>>>> just
      > > > > >>>>>> a
      > > > > >>>>>> coincidence or the ear of the census taker.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> My Hettish branch was very biblical in their kid naming. Out of
      >
      > > > > >>>>>> maybe
      > > > > >>>>> a
      > > > > >>>>>> total of 30 or so Hettish's there are many Mikes, Johns and
      > > > > >>>>>> Marys.
      > > > > >>>>> Mark.
      > > > > >>>>>> Paul. Even using them for the girls names - Pauline.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> From what I have seen, the German to Slovakia pattern might
      > > > > >>>>>> make a
      > > > > >> lot
      > > > > >>>>> of
      > > > > >>>>>> sense.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> Also, they appeared to have been Byzantine Catholics if that
      > > > > >>>>>> helps
      > > > > >>>>> narrow
      > > > > >>>>>> down anything.
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > > >>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > >> M Jenner <hawaiijenner@> wrote:
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> There are a lot of Slovaks with German last names. Germans
      > > > > >>>>>>> settled
      > > > > >> in
      > > > > >>>>>>> what
      > > > > >>>>>> is now Slovakia from the 12th to the 15th century. The town of
      > > > > >>>>> Kezmarok
      > > > > >>>>>> has
      > > > > >>>>>> a lot of German influences. My great grandmother's maiden name
      > > > > >>>>>> was
      > > > > >>>>> Anna
      > > > > >>>>>> Drost (Droszt in Hungarian). A very non-Slovak sounding name.
      > > > > >>>>>> She was
      > > > > >>>>> from
      > > > > >>>>>> Levoca and 100 percent Slovak, her name was of German origin,
      > > > > >>>>>> but she
      > > > > >>>>>> never
      > > > > >>>>>> considered herself anything but Slovak. By the way, her
      > husband's
      > > > > >> name
      > > > > >>>>> was
      > > > > >>>>>> Mike also. They weren't very creative with first names in the
      > old
      > > > > >>>>> country.
      > > > > >>>>>> My grandmother always said every Slovak family had an Anna and
      > a
      > > > > >> Mary.
      > > > > >>>>> So
      > > > > >>>>>> your grandparents last name could very well be Hettish and of
      > > > > >>>>>> German
      > > > > >>>>>> origin
      > > > > >>>>>> and they were still Slovak.
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________
      > > > > >>>>>>> From: Mark <hettishm@>
      > > > > >>>>>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > > >>>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: Tue, April 27, 2010 3:07:58 PM
      > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ???
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> My grandfather Mike (and wife Anna) came over to the
      > > > > >>>>>>> Punxsutawney,
      > > > > >> PA
      > > > > >>>>>>> coal
      > > > > >>>>>> mines around 1892. Country of origin was listed as Austria-
      > > > > >>>>>> Hungary
      > > > > >> and
      > > > > >>>>>> language spoken was Slovak.
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> Looking around I see Slovakian surnames like Hettis and Hettes
      >
      > > > > >>>>>>> and
      > > > > >>>>> Hetes
      > > > > >>>>>> that I THINK would maybe pronounce nearly the same. But I have
      > > > > >>>>>> not
      > > > > >>>>> ever
      > > > > >>>>>> come
      > > > > >>>>>> across "Hettish" itself as Slovak. (I have seen it as German,
      > > > > >>>>>> but I
      > > > > >>>>> know
      > > > > >>>>>> my
      > > > > >>>>>> family was definitely not German).
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> I looked through the Database here and did not see anything
      > > > > >>>>>>> close.
      > > > > >>>>>>> Anyone
      > > > > >>>>>> have any opinions? Thanks in advance!
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>>
      > > > > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
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      > > > > >>>>> --
      > > > > >>>>> Bill Tarkulich
      > > > > >>>>> http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
      > > > > >>>>>
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>>
      > > > > >>>> ------------------------------------
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      > > yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
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      > > > > >>> --
      > > > > >>> Bill Tarkulich
      > > > > >>> http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>>
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >>
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --
      > > > > > The Animal Rescue Site needs your help in feeding previously abused
      > > > > > animals
      > > > > > who are now living their lives in a protective sanctuary or are
      > > > > > awaiting
      > > > > > adoption! Help feed tens of thousands of animals every day with a
      > > > > > simple
      > > > > > click--AT NO COST TO YOU (no catch)! Visit
      > > > > > http://www.theanima <http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com>
      > > lrescuesite.com today-PLEASE!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I see a light at the end of the tunnel....It's a train! ;-O
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ------------------------------------
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      > > > > > ! Groups Links
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      > >
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      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
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      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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    • John
      ... http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=waypoint;s=waypointsOnly;c=1554443;w=0
      Message 37 of 37 , May 5, 2010
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