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RE: [S-R] Re: Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"

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  • Sandra/John Panzitta
    I had the same situation. An ancestor by the name of Zigmund Arasin not only naturalized but had a US passport. Both documents contained the same date of
    Message 1 of 37 , May 3, 2010
      I had the same situation. An ancestor by the name of Zigmund Arasin not
      only naturalized but had a US passport. Both documents contained the same
      date of arrival and ship name. I was unable to find him using the search
      feature on Ancestry. I found the ship he named did dock in New York on the
      date Zigmund gave.

      I went through the manifest, page by page. Nothing. I went through a
      second time and looked twice at a passenger by the name of John Zigmund.
      Following John Zigmund's entry, I saw in the comments that his final
      destination was Coyne, PA - a colloquial name for a section of two or three
      streets in the town where all of the Arasins lived. The confirmation was his
      ticket was purchased by his brother, John Arasin of Coyne. Clearly, there
      was a communication problem with the name when the ticket was purchased for
      him and I found my ancestor.

      Good luck,
      Sandra
      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Bill Tarkulich
      Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:46 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"



      Funny. I'm going through one right now. We have the immigrant's
      declaration of intent, which includes his immigration date, port and ship
      name. Well, we found the manifest, but do you think I can find him on
      there? I've even checked the detained aliens sheets. No dice. This is not
      the first immigrant I've seen this happen to.

      Bill

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of Ron
      Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:07 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"

      Frank,

      Reading his statement I take it he has the census info but has not yet
      found
      the immigration info. >>> From the census info, Mike immigrated in 1891 or
      1892 and his wife Anna in 1895/1896 with their 4 year old son John. You'd
      think from this info I might be able to find their immigration records.>>>

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Frank R Plichta"
      <frank.r.plichta@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Ron,
      >
      >
      >
      > If Mark found his family, why would you suggest he try another spelling
      > variation? I don't understand the logic.
      >
      > Frank
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      > Behalf Of Ron
      > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:47 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ??? "HETTISH"
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > You don't list the variations you have tried and I have not reviewed all
      of
      > the postings in this thread to see what was suggested, so at the risk of
      > repeating: have you tried Hungarian variations on the name? I have at
      least
      > two grandparents who came to the US under Hungarian spellings that were
      > never used again in any documents I have encountered.
      >
      > The most obvious variations to me would be in the name ending, using a
      plain
      > s in place of sh, or adding a z before and after the s, with and without
      the
      > h. Certainly some of those are not proper Hungarian, but we are dealing
      with
      > perceived phonetic sounds in several languages. This is how Steve
      becomes
      > Hungarian Istvan and can become Stif on an American record. That is a
      real
      > example.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <hettishm@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks for all the suggestions so far folks! Using one of the
      alterntive
      > spelling suggestions here I was finally able to find them in the 1900
      census
      > using one of the soundex searches, under Heatash of all things! That
      > spelling ONLY exists in the 1900 census, not other DBs.
      > >
      > > From the census info, Mike immigrated in 1891 or 1892 and his wife
      Anna
      in
      > 1895/1896 with their 4 year old son John. You'd think from this info I
      might
      > be able to find their immigration records.
      > >
      > > I swear I have used every combination of "hettish" with the soundex
      > (ancestry.com) and the phonetic (Morse search on top of Ellis Island)
      and
      > cannot find them. I have 2 possible for Mike (Hadas and something else)
      but
      > nothing pops for the mom and son around that timeframe.
      > >
      > > A few questions that might help me a bit:
      > >
      > > 1. Is that an alternate spelling of Anna that does not start with 'A'
      that
      > anyone knows of? I saw Hanya once.
      > >
      > > 2. One name that keeps coming up over and over again in Western PA,
      lots
      > of them, is Hudak. Is there any dialect or accent-mark modifer that
      would
      > make the hard K at the end into a softer, SH or CH sound? I did not see
      > anything looking around and pronunciation sites but again, I am a novice
      in
      > this area for sure!
      > >
      > >
      > > Mark
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com, Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > One long shot. If you can find a friendly priest at the byz church.
      > > > Ask him to look up the christenings for your immigrants children.
      The
      > > > parents place of birth is almost always listed. It is NOT listed on
      > > > the christening certificate. It is in the church books.
      > > > Don't forget to leave a nice donation.
      > > >
      > > > Bill
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Gina <Gina.PhilsPhan@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Or possibly Hedash? There are several Hedash families in the coal
      > > > > regions of
      > > > > eastern PA, and I know that the family came from Slovakia. Perhaps
      > > > > one of
      > > > > them moved out to western PA?
      > > > >
      > > > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <n8de@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> How about Chedis' ?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Don Havlicek
      > > > >> Edmore, MI
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Quoting Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@<bill.tarkulich
      > > > >> %40iabsi.com>
      > > > >>> :
      > > > >>
      > > > >>> Mark,
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> This should help immensely:
      > > > >>> http://www.pa-
      > <http://www.pa-roots.com/jefferson/townships/young/stpeterpaul.html>
      > roots.com/jefferson/townships/young/stpeterpaul.html
      > > > >>> Hint: there are a lot of misspellings on this list).
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> First observation, while this is a very select list, the fact
      that

      > > > >>> it has
      > > > >>> village names is super-helpful. lots of folks from Galicia,
      which
      is
      > > > >>> today's Southern Poland, was Lemko-dialect Rusyns (Byzantine).
      > > > >>> Also a lot
      > > > >>> from Saros/Szepes old counties in Slovakia. Big tip-off. I'd be
      > > > >>> looking
      > > > >>> in these two regions.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Holubinka, Jurko From Smerek (Galicia) was not destined for
      Punx.
      I
      > > > >>> don't think anyone did.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> I see a number of SMEREK, which is Galicia, Austria, today's
      > > > >>> poland. This
      > > > >>> is part of my research territory. Wiped out in Operation Vistula
      > > > >>> in the
      > > > >>> late 40s.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Search ellisisland.org with a last name "H" (everything could be
      > > > >>> wrong)
      > > > >>> and the village names you find. Doesn't look like Smerek - I
      tried

      > > > >>> that
      > > > >>> one.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Here's one surname I see from Polana that I like: HEDESZ
      > > > >>> Hint: sounds-alike, looks-alike.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Bill
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> On Thu, April 29, 2010 12:34 pm, Mark wrote:
      > > > >>>> Bill,
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> First, thanks for un-hijacking the thread! I was going to to
      this

      > > > >>>> next
      > > > >>>> time I posted!
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> I'll tell you what I have seen from what documents.
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> Byzantine Catholics. The Hettish's that sill live in
      > > > >>>> Punxsutawney, the
      > > > >>>> original immigration area, are of the Byzantine persuasion.
      They
      > > > >>>> are
      > > > >>>> buried in Byzantine cemetaries. Only later did those that left
      > > > >>>> the area
      > > > >>>> move to Roman Catholicism.
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> I have not found a related Hettish on any ship manifest. I've
      > > > >>>> looked at
      > > > >>>> all sorts of alternative and none match up with the original
      > > > >>>> Hettish's
      > > > >>>> that landed in the coal mines of Punxsutawney. I plan to do a
      > > > >>>> little
      > > > >> more
      > > > >>>> name matching and see if I come up with anything.
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> Country of origin language spoken were listed on the census
      (1920
      I
      > > > >>>> think). Austria-Hungary was listed as birthplace and Slovak was
      > > > >>>> listed
      > > > >> as
      > > > >>>> language.
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> Maybe another clue: in one of the censuses, the family was
      listed

      > > > >>>> as
      > > > >>>> Hettich but I disgarded that as a mistake. It was Hettish
      before
      > > > >>>> that
      > > > >> and
      > > > >>>> Hettish after that.
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> Mark
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > >>>> %40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > >> "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@>
      > > > >>>> wrote:
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>> Mark,
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>> What primary source documents have you consulted to determine
      your
      > > > >>>>> immigrant's ethnicity? It sounds like you've been through ship
      > > > >>>>> manifests.
      > > > >>>>> How about their Immigration file? Social Security Application?
      > > > >>>>> Baptismal record of their children? If you can trace back to
      the
      > > > >>>>> correct
      > > > >>>>> ancestral village (Job #1) you should be able to determine the
      > > > >>>>> correct
      > > > >>>>> spelling, and then develop a case from there.
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>> Bill
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>> On Wed, April 28, 2010 9:28 pm, Bill Tarkulich wrote:
      > > > >>>>>> I just read this thread and I was quite confused until I
      realized
      > > > >> that
      > > > >>>>>> MITRICSKA had hi-jacked this thread for his own research. It
      > > > >>>>>> would be
      > > > >>>>>> much
      > > > >>>>>> better to start your own message thread with it's own title,
      so

      > > > >>>>>> we
      > > > >> can
      > > > >>>>>> follow things easier. I try to change the message title so
      when
      > > > >>>>> people
      > > > >>>>>> respond, the topic is clear.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> On to HETTISH. We need to test your assertions.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Facts and Assertion Tests:
      > > > >>>>>> The MOST IMPORTANT thing Mark wrote so far:
      > > > >>>>>> "appeared to have been Byzantine Catholics" If that's the
      case,

      > > > >>>>>> you
      > > > >>>>>> belong
      > > > >>>>>> in eastern Slovakia or south-eastern Poland or West Ukraine.
      > > > >>>>>> Test one: how do you know this?
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Language Spoken: Slovak - Test two: " Country of origin was
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> listed as Austria-Hungary and language spoken was Slovak. "
      > > > >>>>>> Where do
      > > > >>>>> you
      > > > >>>>>> have that information from?
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Let's test the HETTISH NAME with the surname database:
      > > > >>>>>> http://slovnik. <http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk/>
      juls.savba.sk/
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> First interesting entry is HETS' located in Bratislava.
      > > > >>>>>> Pronounced
      > > > >>>>>> similarly to what you are rendering in English. Wrong part of
      the
      > > > >>>>>> country,
      > > > >>>>>> but many people moved to Bratislava for work.
      > > > >>>>>> Priezvisko HET© sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 2×,
      > > > >>>>>> celkový
      > > > >>>>> poèet
      > > > >>>>>> lokalít: 1, v lokalitách:
      > > > >>>>>> RAÈA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 2×;
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Next interesting one is HETE© (HETES) which also sounds si
      > > > >>>>>> milar, but
      > > > >>>>> most
      > > > >>>>>> names are found in the west of Slovakia.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Have you considered looking for later family immigrants using
      the
      > > > >>>>> Ellis
      > > > >>>>>> Island database? I would. A quick search found many HETES. It
      may
      > > > >>>>> lead
      > > > >>>>>> you
      > > > >>>>>> to his village in a better way, since later manifests
      contained

      > > > >>>>>> more
      > > > >>>>> info.
      > > > >>>>>> I think HETES, MARIA, from PALOCSA (PLAVEC) is interesting.
      > > > >>>>>> Destined
      > > > >>>>> for
      > > > >>>>>> Bridgeport PA.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Lots of immigrants did NOT permanently settle in the first
      > > > >>>>>> place they
      > > > >>>>>> lived
      > > > >>>>>> in once arriving here.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Bill
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
      > > > >>>>>> From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > >>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > >>>>> [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > >>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>]
      > > > >>>>>> On
      > > > >>>>>> Behalf Of Mark
      > > > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:00 PM
      > > > >>>>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ???
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Thanks. Hettish is a pretty uncommon name in the US, I have
      > > > >>>>>> only seen
      > > > >>>>>> about
      > > > >>>>>> 5 branches and two are pretty much dried up. The ones left
      are
      in
      > > > >>>>>> Erie,PA-Tennesee, California and Western PA-Texas (my
      branch).
      > > > >>>>>> I do
      > > > >>>>> know
      > > > >>>>>> the
      > > > >>>>>> Erie,PA immigrants were from Germany and appear unrelated.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> I also know that they MIGHT have used the "ch" sound at the
      end

      > > > >>>>>> at
      > > > >>>>> times
      > > > >>>>>> because in one US census they were Hettich. But, that could
      > > > >>>>>> have been
      > > > >>>>> just
      > > > >>>>>> a
      > > > >>>>>> coincidence or the ear of the census taker.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> My Hettish branch was very biblical in their kid naming. Out
      of

      > > > >>>>>> maybe
      > > > >>>>> a
      > > > >>>>>> total of 30 or so Hettish's there are many Mikes, Johns and
      > > > >>>>>> Marys.
      > > > >>>>> Mark.
      > > > >>>>>> Paul. Even using them for the girls names - Pauline.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> From what I have seen, the German to Slovakia pattern might
      > > > >>>>>> make a
      > > > >> lot
      > > > >>>>> of
      > > > >>>>>> sense.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> Also, they appeared to have been Byzantine Catholics if that
      > > > >>>>>> helps
      > > > >>>>> narrow
      > > > >>>>>> down anything.
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > >>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > >> M Jenner <hawaiijenner@> wrote:
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> There are a lot of Slovaks with German last names. Germans
      > > > >>>>>>> settled
      > > > >> in
      > > > >>>>>>> what
      > > > >>>>>> is now Slovakia from the 12th to the 15th century. The town
      of
      > > > >>>>> Kezmarok
      > > > >>>>>> has
      > > > >>>>>> a lot of German influences. My great grandmother's maiden
      name
      > > > >>>>>> was
      > > > >>>>> Anna
      > > > >>>>>> Drost (Droszt in Hungarian). A very non-Slovak sounding name.
      > > > >>>>>> She was
      > > > >>>>> from
      > > > >>>>>> Levoca and 100 percent Slovak, her name was of German origin,
      > > > >>>>>> but she
      > > > >>>>>> never
      > > > >>>>>> considered herself anything but Slovak. By the way, her
      husband's
      > > > >> name
      > > > >>>>> was
      > > > >>>>>> Mike also. They weren't very creative with first names in the
      old
      > > > >>>>> country.
      > > > >>>>>> My grandmother always said every Slovak family had an Anna
      and
      a
      > > > >> Mary.
      > > > >>>>> So
      > > > >>>>>> your grandparents last name could very well be Hettish and of
      > > > >>>>>> German
      > > > >>>>>> origin
      > > > >>>>>> and they were still Slovak.
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________
      > > > >>>>>>> From: Mark <hettishm@>
      > > > >>>>>>> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > yahoogroups.com <SLOVAK-ROOTS
      > > > >>>>>>> %40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > >>>>>>> Sent: Tue, April 27, 2010 3:07:58 PM
      > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [S-R] Hettish possibly Americanized from ???
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> My grandfather Mike (and wife Anna) came over to the
      > > > >>>>>>> Punxsutawney,
      > > > >> PA
      > > > >>>>>>> coal
      > > > >>>>>> mines around 1892. Country of origin was listed as Austria-
      > > > >>>>>> Hungary
      > > > >> and
      > > > >>>>>> language spoken was Slovak.
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> Looking around I see Slovakian surnames like Hettis and
      Hettes

      > > > >>>>>>> and
      > > > >>>>> Hetes
      > > > >>>>>> that I THINK would maybe pronounce nearly the same. But I
      have
      > > > >>>>>> not
      > > > >>>>> ever
      > > > >>>>>> come
      > > > >>>>>> across "Hettish" itself as Slovak. (I have seen it as German,
      > > > >>>>>> but I
      > > > >>>>> know
      > > > >>>>>> my
      > > > >>>>>> family was definitely not German).
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> I looked through the Database here and did not see anything
      > > > >>>>>>> close.
      > > > >>>>>>> Anyone
      > > > >>>>>> have any opinions? Thanks in advance!
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >>>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > > >>>>>> http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/>
      > yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
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      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
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      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>>
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      > > > >>>>>>
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>> --
      > > > >>>>> Bill Tarkulich
      > > > >>>>> http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
      > > > >>>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> ------------------------------------
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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      > yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
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      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> --
      > > > >>> Bill Tarkulich
      > > > >>> http://www.iabsi. <http://www.iabsi.com> com
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --
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      abused
      > > > > animals
      > > > > who are now living their lives in a protective sanctuary or are
      > > > > awaiting
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      > > > >
      > > > > I see a light at the end of the tunnel....It's a train! ;-O
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------------------
      > > > >
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    • John
      ... http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=waypoint;s=waypointsOnly;c=1554443;w=0
      Message 37 of 37 , May 5, 2010
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