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Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava

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  • jump4toys@aol.com
    Hi folks.. I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 31, 2010
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      Hi folks..
      I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
      which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
      Szolyva/Svalyava/Svaliava.

      while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
      the town who he said was not a relative.
      So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
      their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
      Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
      or family ties or location????
      Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
      My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
      families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
      related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

      Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
      Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel, which
      we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

      Would appreciate any info.
      Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
      areas?

      Daniel WAchtenheim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • helene cincebeaux
      Hi Daniel, I found a curious thing in Slovakia. My experience over the years was that people weren t that much interested in their ancestors, and didn t go
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Daniel,

        I found a curious thing in Slovakia. My experience over the years was that people weren't that much interested in their ancestors, and didn't go back further than their grandparents. Beyond that they didn't seem to consider that someone with a similar surname might be related. "We're not related they would tell me," even when it was a very unusual name.

        In the villages people couldn't understand my interest in genealogy, I loved this comment, "Why do want to know about them, they are all dead!"

        This is changing, in no small part due to the Americans and Canadians who want to know more about their heritage and personal history. I love the requests I get from Slovaks who have seen the Slovak Pride data base and want help finding family in America.

        Have gotten e mails from Germany, Brazil, Israel, Argentina, Australia and other countries.

        Another sidelight - Megan Smolenyak has done DNA testings of many people with roots in Osturna. She found many of the Smolenyaks had similar DNA but a few were totally unrelated and that makes you wonder if they were adopted when many died of cholera or what.

        Find this a most fascinating subject with no easy answers. A great topic for discussion.

        helene





        ________________________________
        From: "jump4toys@..." <jump4toys@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 1:31:03 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava


        Hi folks..
        I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
        which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
        Szolyva/Svalyava/ Svaliava.

        while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
        the town who he said was not a relative.
        So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
        their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
        Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
        or family ties or location????
        Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
        My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
        families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
        related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

        Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
        Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel, which
        we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

        Would appreciate any info.
        Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
        areas?

        Daniel WAchtenheim

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Mojher
        Daniel, Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak border. The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2010
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          Daniel,
          Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak border. The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in Czechoslovakia. It is in the Carpathian Mountains of the Ukraine.
          Does your father relate to being Slovak or Ukrainian?

          I concur with Helena about genealogy in Slovakia. I made my first trip to Slovakia in 2001. Making six trips all together. On meeting my paternal relatives I was very surprised how little they knew of their ancestors. Eventually I came of with a "Rule of Thumb", that being, "If they did not meet them, they do not know them." It was only during the last two trips they the Slovak relatives began to understand my interest in genealogy. They too, would react to others in the village with the same surname as not family members. Eventually, I learned that there were recognized branches of the family, three of them. Only those that were of the same branch were looked upon as being "family". Interestingly, they recognized other branches of the family as being cousins and so forth. But they were not "family". One of the results of my visits is they are now understanding there is a much larger "family tree" they all belong to.
          With such lack of genealogical knowledge do not be surprised that your relatives too do not know who they are related to.
          Michael Mojher


          From: jump4toys@...
          Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:31 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava



          Hi folks..
          I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
          which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
          Szolyva/Svalyava/Svaliava.

          while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
          the town who he said was not a relative.
          So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
          their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
          Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
          or family ties or location????
          Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
          My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
          families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
          related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

          Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
          Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel, which
          we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

          Would appreciate any info.
          Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
          areas?

          Daniel WAchtenheim

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nancy Hayes
          My Szolyva grandmother Mariska (Mary) Vikuk Kristen was totally thrilled when she heard in 1988 that I was researching the family history. A few of her
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2010
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            My Szolyva grandmother Mariska (Mary) Vikuk Kristen was totally thrilled when she heard in 1988 that I was researching the family history. A few of her sons/daughters thought, 'what a waste of time. The past is the past.' Well, whenever I came across a relative with that attitude, little did they know that their comment/s made me dig even deeper! I've discovered that geneaology is a hobby that a person either loves or hates. I love it as I've always wanted to know 'where I came from' and especially where my first ancestor came from (and now that the DNA testing is available, that's right up my alley of interests).

            On my Italian side, I came across two different branches of Peruccas and Origliassos; each in the same family branch said that they weren't related to the other branch, yet none of them had ever done any research. I got the same response from one of the Perucca relatives whom I knew just had to be related to me, and thankfully he did something about it when he received my inquiry letter back in 1991. He had the town council do the research for him on his branch of the Perucca family; it took a year, but one day in the mail I received the whole family tree of his Perucca branch which proved that he and I were definitely related; I'm from the other Perucca branch, yet both branches have the same common ancestor back to the 1700s in Italy.

            So when the same surname family says they aren't related to others who have their same surname, I really don't believe it unless it's been proven right or wrong.

            Nancy



            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of helene cincebeaux
            Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:53 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava



            Hi Daniel,

            I found a curious thing in Slovakia. My experience over the years was that people weren't that much interested in their ancestors, and didn't go back further than their grandparents. Beyond that they didn't seem to consider that someone with a similar surname might be related. "We're not related they would tell me," even when it was a very unusual name.

            In the villages people couldn't understand my interest in genealogy, I loved this comment, "Why do want to know about them, they are all dead!"

            This is changing, in no small part due to the Americans and Canadians who want to know more about their heritage and personal history. I love the requests I get from Slovaks who have seen the Slovak Pride data base and want help finding family in America.

            Have gotten e mails from Germany, Brazil, Israel, Argentina, Australia and other countries.

            Another sidelight - Megan Smolenyak has done DNA testings of many people with roots in Osturna. She found many of the Smolenyaks had similar DNA but a few were totally unrelated and that makes you wonder if they were adopted when many died of cholera or what.

            Find this a most fascinating subject with no easy answers. A great topic for discussion.

            helene

            ________________________________
            From: "jump4toys@..." <jump4toys@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 1:31:03 AM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava

            Hi folks..
            I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
            which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
            Szolyva/Svalyava/ Svaliava.

            while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
            the town who he said was not a relative.
            So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
            their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
            Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
            or family ties or location????
            Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
            My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
            families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
            related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

            Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
            Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel, which
            we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

            Would appreciate any info.
            Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
            areas?

            Daniel WAchtenheim

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Mojher
            Janet, Thanks for the correction. I found a pre-WW II map. There is a tongue of territory that extended further to the southeast. That area was given to the
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Janet,
              Thanks for the correction. I found a pre-WW II map. There is a "tongue" of territory that extended further to the southeast. That area was given to the Ukraine after WW II.


              From: Janet Kozlay
              Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:55 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava



              Michael, that region of old Bereg county became a part of Czechoslovakia
              between WWI and WWII, after which time it became part of Ukrainian SSR and
              now Ukraine.

              Daniel, are you in contact with Frank Jacobowitz through JewishGen? His
              family, also from Szolyva, was related to the Wachtenheim family, and he
              apparently has information to share.

              Janet

              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Michael Mojher
              Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:28 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava

              Daniel,
              Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak border.
              The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in
              Czechoslovakia. It is in the Carpathian Mountains of the Ukraine.
              Does your father relate to being Slovak or Ukrainian?

              I concur with Helena about genealogy in Slovakia. I made my first trip to
              Slovakia in 2001. Making six trips all together. On meeting my paternal
              relatives I was very surprised how little they knew of their ancestors.
              Eventually I came of with a "Rule of Thumb", that being, "If they did not
              meet them, they do not know them." It was only during the last two trips
              they the Slovak relatives began to understand my interest in genealogy. They
              too, would react to others in the village with the same surname as not
              family members. Eventually, I learned that there were recognized branches of
              the family, three of them. Only those that were of the same branch were
              looked upon as being "family". Interestingly, they recognized other branches
              of the family as being cousins and so forth. But they were not "family". One
              of the results of my visits is they are now understanding there is a much
              larger "family tree" they all belong to.
              With such lack of genealogical knowledge do not be surprised that your
              relatives too do not know who they are related to.
              Michael Mojher

              From: jump4toys@... <mailto:jump4toys%40aol.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:31 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava

              Hi folks..
              I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
              which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
              Szolyva/Svalyava/Svaliava.

              while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
              the town who he said was not a relative.
              So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
              their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
              Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
              or family ties or location????
              Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
              My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
              families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
              related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

              Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
              Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel,
              which
              we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

              Would appreciate any info.
              Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
              areas?

              Daniel WAchtenheim

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Janet Kozlay
              Michael, that region of old Bereg county became a part of Czechoslovakia between WWI and WWII, after which time it became part of Ukrainian SSR and now
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Michael, that region of old Bereg county became a part of Czechoslovakia
                between WWI and WWII, after which time it became part of Ukrainian SSR and
                now Ukraine.



                Daniel, are you in contact with Frank Jacobowitz through JewishGen? His
                family, also from Szolyva, was related to the Wachtenheim family, and he
                apparently has information to share.



                Janet





                From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:28 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava





                Daniel,
                Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak border.
                The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in
                Czechoslovakia. It is in the Carpathian Mountains of the Ukraine.
                Does your father relate to being Slovak or Ukrainian?

                I concur with Helena about genealogy in Slovakia. I made my first trip to
                Slovakia in 2001. Making six trips all together. On meeting my paternal
                relatives I was very surprised how little they knew of their ancestors.
                Eventually I came of with a "Rule of Thumb", that being, "If they did not
                meet them, they do not know them." It was only during the last two trips
                they the Slovak relatives began to understand my interest in genealogy. They
                too, would react to others in the village with the same surname as not
                family members. Eventually, I learned that there were recognized branches of
                the family, three of them. Only those that were of the same branch were
                looked upon as being "family". Interestingly, they recognized other branches
                of the family as being cousins and so forth. But they were not "family". One
                of the results of my visits is they are now understanding there is a much
                larger "family tree" they all belong to.
                With such lack of genealogical knowledge do not be surprised that your
                relatives too do not know who they are related to.
                Michael Mojher

                From: jump4toys@... <mailto:jump4toys%40aol.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:31 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava

                Hi folks..
                I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
                which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
                Szolyva/Svalyava/Svaliava.

                while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
                the town who he said was not a relative.
                So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
                their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
                Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
                or family ties or location????
                Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
                My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
                families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
                related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

                Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
                Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel,
                which
                we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

                Would appreciate any info.
                Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
                areas?

                Daniel WAchtenheim

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jump4toys@aol.com
                Hi Helene, Very interesting comments. I too wonder about relations of people with the same surname in the same area, and the people saying they weren t
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 3, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Helene,
                  Very interesting comments. I too wonder about relations of people with
                  the same surname in the same area, and the people saying they weren't
                  related.
                  My thought is that the "rich" relatives, didn't need to know the poorer
                  ones or they would have to help them, so if a distant cousin was poor, they
                  then weren't related like immediate family was.
                  My other thought was, as I mentioned, if the giving out of surnames then
                  had unrelated families taking on the same surname and thus not being related,
                  yet living in the same town with the same surname?

                  DAniel Wachtenheim


                  Hi Daniel,

                  I found a curious thing in Slovakia. My experience over the years was that
                  people weren't that much interested in their ancestors, and didn't go back
                  further than their grandparents. Beyond that they didn't seem to consider
                  that someone with a similar surname might be related. "We're not related
                  they would tell me," even when it was a very unusual name.

                  In the villages people couldn't understand my interest in genealogy, I
                  loved this comment, "Why do want to know about them, they are all dead!"

                  This is changing, in no small part due to the Americans and Canadians who
                  want to know more about their heritage and personal history. I love the
                  requests I get from Slovaks who have seen the Slovak Pride data base and want
                  help finding family in America.

                  Have gotten e mails from Germany, Brazil, Israel, Argentina, Australia and
                  other countries.

                  Another sidelight - Megan Smolenyak has done DNA testings of many people
                  with roots in Osturna. She found many of the Smolenyaks had similar DNA but
                  a few were totally unrelated and that makes you wonder if they were adopted
                  when many died of cholera or what.

                  Find this a most fascinating subject with no easy answers. A great topic
                  for discussion.

                  helene

                  ________________________________
                  From: "_jump4toys@..._ (mailto:jump4toys@...) "
                  <_jump4toys@..._ (mailto:jump4toys@...) >
                  To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                  Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 1:31:03 AM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiSubject: RSubject:

                  Hi folks..
                  I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
                  which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
                  Szolyva/Svalyava/ Svaliava.

                  while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
                  the town who he said was not a relative.
                  So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
                  their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son
                  of
                  Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
                  or family ties or location????
                  Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
                  My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
                  families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
                  related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

                  Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
                  Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was
                  TishenShankel, which
                  we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

                  Would appreciate any info.
                  Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
                  areas?

                  Daniel WAchtenheim

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                • jump4toys@aol.com
                  Hi Michael, Just to correct you, Svaliava is now located in the Ukraine. But before 1918 I believe, it was Hungary, and then when my father was born in 1920,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 3, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Michael,
                    Just to correct you, Svaliava is now located in the Ukraine. But before
                    1918 I believe, it was Hungary, and then when my father was born in 1920, it
                    was Czechoslovakia. During WW2, then it was Hungary again, and then after
                    the war became Ukraine.
                    I know because my father was a Czech citizen, but his older siblings were
                    all Hungarian citizens.
                    In my geneology research it made me insane to find family members with the
                    name WAchtenheim from different cities, only to have someone on this board
                    point out there were Czech names and Hungarian names, and Ukranian names
                    for cities.
                    Best
                    Daniel

                    Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak
                    border. The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in
                    Czechoslovakia. It is in the Carpathian Mountains of the Ukraine.
                    Does your father relate to being Slovak or Ukrainian?

                    I concur with Helena about genealogy in Slovakia. I made my first trip to
                    Slovakia in 2001. Making six trips all together. On meeting my paternal
                    relatives I was very surprised how little they knew of their ancestors.
                    Eventually I came of with a "Rule of Thumb", that being, "If they did not meet
                    them, they do not know them." It was only during the last two trips they the
                    Slovak relatives began to understand my interest in genealogy. They too,
                    would react to others in the village with the same surname as not family
                    members. Eventually, I learned that there were recognized branches of the
                    family, three of them. Only those that were of the same branch were looked upon
                    as being "family". Interestingly, they recognized other branches of the
                    family as being cousins and so forth. But they were not "family". One of the
                    results of my visits is they are now understanding there is a much larger
                    "family tree" they all belong to.
                    With such lack of genealogical knowledge do not be surprised that your
                    relatives too do not know who they are related to.
                    Michael Mojher

                    From: _jump4toys@..._ (mailto:jump4toys@...)
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:31 PM
                    To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiSubject: RSubject:





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jump4toys@aol.com
                    Janet, I am not in touch with Frank Jacobowitz, but if he is related to the WAchtenheims then I want to know him. I think he s related to that other
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 3, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Janet,
                      I am not in touch with Frank Jacobowitz, but if he is related to the
                      WAchtenheims then I want to know him. I think he's related to that "other"
                      Wachtenheim family! Who I think must be related, but still.....I can't find
                      the common link yet, but they're all from Szolyva!
                      Do you have any contact information for Frank Jacobowitz?
                      DAniel WAchtenheim

                      Michael, that region of old Bereg county became a part of Czechoslovakia
                      between WWI and WWII, after which time it became part of Ukrainian SSR and
                      now Ukraine.

                      Daniel, are you in contact with Frank Jacobowitz through JewishGen? His
                      family, also from Szolyva, was related to the Wachtenheim family, and he
                      apparently has information to share.

                      Janet

                      From: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                      [mailto:_SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_
                      (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com) ] On
                      Behalf Of Michael Mojher
                      Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:28 AM
                      To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiSubject: Subject:

                      Daniel,
                      Of Svaliava. It is in the Ukraine, but some distance from the Slovak
                      border.
                      The same border existed for Czechoslovakia. So Svaliava was never in
                      Czechoslovakia. It is in the Carpathian Mountains of the Ukraine.
                      Does your father relate to being Slovak or Ukrainian?

                      I concur with Helena about genealogy in Slovakia. I made my first trip to
                      Slovakia in 2001. Making six trips all together. On meeting my paternal
                      relatives I was very surprised how little they knew of their ancestors.
                      Eventually I came of with a "Rule of Thumb", that being, "If they did not
                      meet them, they do not know them." It was only during the last two trips
                      they the Slovak relatives began to understand my interest in genealogy.
                      They
                      too, would react to others in the village with the same surname as not
                      family members. Eventually, I learned that there were recognized branches
                      of
                      the family, three of them. Only those that were of the same branch were
                      looked upon as being "family". Interestingly, they recognized other
                      branches
                      of the family as being cousins and so forth. But they were not "family".
                      One
                      of the results of my visits is they are now understanding there is a much
                      larger "family tree" they all belong to.
                      With such lack of genealogical knowledge do not be surprised that your
                      relatives too do not know who they are related to.
                      Michael Mojher

                      From: _jump4toys@..._ (mailto:jump4toys@...)
                      <mailto:jump4toys%mailto:ju>
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:31 PM
                      To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@SLOVAK-ROOTSSLO_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                      <mailto:SLOVAK-mailto:SLOVAK-<Wmailto:>
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiSubject: RSubject:

                      Hi folks..
                      I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
                      which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
                      Szolyva/Svalyava/Szolyva/S

                      while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
                      the town who he said was not a relative.
                      So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
                      their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son
                      of
                      Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
                      or family ties or location????
                      Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
                      My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
                      families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
                      related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.

                      Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
                      Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was
                      TishenShankel,
                      which
                      we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).

                      Would appreciate any info.
                      Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
                      areas?

                      Daniel WAchtenheim





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • deeellessbee
                      I found your comments very interesting, Helene, as I did Michael s experiences along the same lines. While never having been to Slovakia to experience this
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 4, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I found your comments very interesting, Helene, as I did Michael's experiences along the same lines. While never having been to Slovakia to experience this myself - this feeling of why do you want to know, as well as "no, we are not related" - I can relate to it here stateside with my Irish line.

                        My grandmother has a fairly common Irish name, and there are many people of the same name in the area, including a family of the same name that runs a big business. I have always, for my whole life, been told that we are not related.

                        Sure enough, a cousin of mine who has done extensive research into this line, had found that we are indeed related - and not really all that distantly, relatively speaking. This family who runs the big business is descended from the same great-great-grandfather who came over in the 1880's.

                        I think it's just that not only do many people not care where they came from, and only know and care to know about their grandparents, but add into that the fact that so many people had so many kids and such big families, that it really can be difficult to keep track of the dozens and dozens and dozens of cousins and their families, and so on. So after a generation or two, no one knows where they came from and to whom they are related.

                        Rather sad, that so few are interested, but hopefully it will change.

                        My prediction is that genealogy may be the "next big thing". Between the Faces of America show, and the other show on NBC, and even more, the fact that Oprah had a show about these shows - well, when Oprah speaks, many listen. Perhaps she will be responsible for lighting a fire under a few more folks to get researching! Not a huge Oprah fan myself, but this might be a good thing!

                        Debbie

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Daniel,
                        >
                        > I found a curious thing in Slovakia. My experience over the years was that people weren't that much interested in their ancestors, and didn't go back further than their grandparents. Beyond that they didn't seem to consider that someone with a similar surname might be related. "We're not related they would tell me," even when it was a very unusual name.
                        >
                        > In the villages people couldn't understand my interest in genealogy, I loved this comment, "Why do want to know about them, they are all dead!"
                        >
                        > This is changing, in no small part due to the Americans and Canadians who want to know more about their heritage and personal history. I love the requests I get from Slovaks who have seen the Slovak Pride data base and want help finding family in America.
                        >
                        > Have gotten e mails from Germany, Brazil, Israel, Argentina, Australia and other countries.
                        >
                        > Another sidelight - Megan Smolenyak has done DNA testings of many people with roots in Osturna. She found many of the Smolenyaks had similar DNA but a few were totally unrelated and that makes you wonder if they were adopted when many died of cholera or what.
                        >
                        > Find this a most fascinating subject with no easy answers. A great topic for discussion.
                        >
                        > helene
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: "jump4toys@..." <jump4toys@...>
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 1:31:03 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi folks..
                        > I have a question. My father is from an area of the Carpathian Mountains
                        > which was Czechoslvakia then and now is the Ukraine in a town called
                        > Szolyva/Svalyava/ Svaliava.
                        >
                        > while he had the surname of Wachtenheim, there was another WAchtenheim in
                        > the town who he said was not a relative.
                        > So I was wondering, at what point would the people of that area received
                        > their surnames? I heard that years before they would be called David son of
                        > Isaac...and later would take on surnames which reflected their profession
                        > or family ties or location????
                        > Can you someone give me a bit of a lead on the taking on of surnames?
                        > My thought is if people took on the same surnames, such as different
                        > families taking on Wachtenheim, then that would be true they wouldn't be
                        > related. But with such an unusual name, I'm curious.
                        >
                        > Also...there was a story in our family that our family name before
                        > Wachtenheim (which I believe means Watcher of the House), was TishenShankel, which
                        > we were told means Table and Chair, or Table and Bench (furniture makers?).
                        >
                        > Would appreciate any info.
                        > Also, are there any records on surnames being given to different towns or
                        > areas?
                        >
                        > Daniel WAchtenheim
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • gklodzen@aol.com
                        There must be many stories like this and I agree with your analysis, Debbie. Years ago my late cousin was told by another with the same unusual surname as hers
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          There must be many stories like this and I agree with your analysis,
                          Debbie. Years ago my late cousin was told by another with the same unusual
                          surname as hers that they were not related. It was my good fortune to discover
                          via a search of church records that indeed they/we are descended, from the
                          same most recent Slovak ancestor. It has been a joy since that day to meet
                          many "new" cousins.

                          Eugene Klodzen


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • billski
                          I ve reformulated this discussion because the title quite a bit off the original topic Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava and I d like to draw
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 5, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I've reformulated this discussion because the title quite a bit off the original topic
                            Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava
                            and I'd like to draw attention to the hundreds of readers who may have elected to ignore the thread.

                            What Helene says rings true, I'll add one more story. I stayed in my villages of Zboj and Nova Sedlica for two weeks, spending the days and nights meeting and speaking with dozens and dozens of family and "relatives" of one sort or another.

                            What struck me at first, was that I seemed to know A LOT more about the family than anyone I met.

                            After about a week, I politely asked one of the elders why they never wrote these things down or knew much about their family history. The answer was quite telling. "Because we are surrounded by our family and our history. There is no need."

                            I left behind a small stack of paper including photographs which included family trees, history, and copies of church books. Never since that time did I receive any inquiry or comment on this material.

                            Only the photographs were of interest. "Yes, I can see we are related - look at that face."

                            Coming back to the US, that kind of bothered me, but I assumed they were too busy working to engage in such idle-time frivolity. Since that time, I've slightly adjusted my perspective. It seems, that regardless what country we live in, history of most sorts is disregarded. The essential question seems to be, "How can this information help me live my life today?" And, for the most part, it does not.

                            On both sides of the ocean, I slam into privacy concerns all the time. It seems to fall into two camps. The first is that it's going to get into sinister hands that will use the lineage information against them. The second is that "He must want something. Why is this guy fishing around about me? Does he want to take the family farm?"

                            Then comes the inevitable family gathering and some chit chat about family history. It's polite, it's cursory, old stories are told, and it ends.

                            I wish I could be as optimistic as Debbie. I don't think anything is changing. While access to records has become light speed, human interest in family history remains in the dark ages.

                            YOU are the family historian, like it or not. There is always one person in a generation of a family group who becomes the family historian. People come to me occasionally for information, but usually only to obtain a "sound byte" or a piece of trivia. Nobody asks, "what was life like?" "why did they come?" "How did they work?"

                            I take my unofficial role as family historian quite seriously. My work may be flawed, but it's all my family has. I've bundled up all sorts of material and sent it to relatives I believe most likely to hang onto it. My hope and wish is that my little "bundle" will inspire someone someday to pick up the torch and carry it. No need for them to start from scratch - take it to the next level. As each generation departs, we lose so much richness.

                            Bill
                          • CasperVeth@aol.com
                            Wow - well said, Bill! You nailed it for the rest of us historians. Ray Veth - Middletown, NJ In a message dated 4/5/2010 9:02:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 5, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Wow - well said, Bill! You nailed it for the rest of us "historians."

                              Ray Veth - Middletown, NJ


                              In a message dated 4/5/2010 9:02:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              bill.tarkulich@... writes:




                              I've reformulated this discussion because the title quite a bit off the
                              original topic
                              Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiRe: [S-R] Re: [S-R] SUR
                              and I'd like to draw attention to the hundreds of readers who may have
                              elected to ignore the thread.

                              What Helene says rings true, I'll add one more story. I stayed in my
                              villages of Zboj and Nova Sedlica for two weeks, spending the days and nights
                              meeting and speaking with dozens and dozens of family and "relatives" of one
                              sort or another.

                              What struck me at first, was that I seemed to know A LOT more about the
                              family than anyone I met.

                              After about a week, I politely asked one of the elders why they never
                              wrote these things down or knew much about their family history. The answer was
                              quite telling. "Because we are surrounded by our family and our history.
                              There is no need."

                              I left behind a small stack of paper including photographs which included
                              family trees, history, and copies of church books. Never since that time
                              did I receive any inquiry or comment on this material.

                              Only the photographs were of interest. "Yes, I can see we are related -
                              look at that face."

                              Coming back to the US, that kind of bothered me, but I assumed they were
                              too busy working to engage in such idle-time frivolity. Since that time,
                              I've slightly adjusted my perspective. It seems, that regardless what country
                              we live in, history of most sorts is disregarded. The essential question
                              seems to be, "How can this information help me live my life today?" And, for
                              the most part, it does not.

                              On both sides of the ocean, I slam into privacy concerns all the time. It
                              seems to fall into two camps. The first is that it's going to get into
                              sinister hands that will use the lineage information against them. The second
                              is that "He must want something. Why is this guy fishing around about me?
                              Does he want to take the family farm?"

                              Then comes the inevitable family gathering and some chit chat about family
                              history. It's polite, it's cursory, old stories are told, and it ends.

                              I wish I could be as optimistic as Debbie. I don't think anything is
                              changing. While access to records has become light speed, human interest in
                              family history remains in the dark ages.

                              YOU are the family historian, like it or not. There is always one person
                              in a generation of a family group who becomes the family historian. People
                              come to me occasionally for information, but usually only to obtain a "sound
                              byte" or a piece of trivia. Nobody asks, "what was life like?" "why did
                              they come?" "How did they work?"

                              I take my unofficial role as family historian quite seriously. My work may
                              be flawed, but it's all my family has. I've bundled up all sorts of
                              material and sent it to relatives I believe most likely to hang onto it. My hope
                              and wish is that my little "bundle" will inspire someone someday to pick up
                              the torch and carry it. No need for them to start from scratch - take it
                              to the next level. As each generation departs, we lose so much richness.

                              Bill





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • MaryLou V. Crouch
                              Bill, I haven t been on the forum much lately--focused on another family line at the moment--but what you wrote really reflects my own experiences. Family
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 5, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Bill,
                                I haven't been on the forum much lately--focused on another family line
                                at the moment--but what you wrote really reflects my own experiences.

                                Family members are glad that I'm doing this work but when I ask for
                                contributions--any old documents, photos, stories, anything-- I get
                                nothing from them until someone dies and the household is being cleaned
                                out--then my requests are sometimes remembered and I am allowed to take
                                stuff that would be thrown out. I have found historical treasures this
                                way--beautifully decorated Baptismal documents that had been rolled up
                                and stored in an attic for ages, for example.

                                It is disheartening but I continue to work on the family history so
                                future generations will have something to build on. We are products of
                                that history not only physically but also emotionally, spiritually, and
                                intellectually.

                                I happened to see part of a PBS show with Dr. Dwyer (sp?) yesterday--he
                                was discussing "memes" which translated to cultural habits of mind, to
                                beliefs carried from one generation to the next, and to mannerisms or
                                habits within a family. One example he used: how the depression of the
                                1930s shaped his mother's life and perspective and her habits of saving,
                                reusing, being thrifty carried over to him as a part of who he is.

                                Part of our family history shows us what "memes" we carry within us--why
                                we think and act the ways we do. In many ways, I am glad the show "Who
                                Do You Think You Are?" is having great success. While very light on the
                                hardscrabble work of genealogy, the show does emphasize the impact of
                                family history on the individual and invites the audience members to
                                begin their own treasure hunt into the past.

                                Marylou


                                On 4/5/2010 9:00 AM, billski wrote:
                                > I've reformulated this discussion because the title quite a bit off the original topic
                                > Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-Wachtenheim-Szolyva/Svaliava
                                > and I'd like to draw attention to the hundreds of readers who may have elected to ignore the thread.
                                >
                                > What Helene says rings true, I'll add one more story. I stayed in my villages of Zboj and Nova Sedlica for two weeks, spending the days and nights meeting and speaking with dozens and dozens of family and "relatives" of one sort or another.
                                >
                                > What struck me at first, was that I seemed to know A LOT more about the family than anyone I met.
                                >
                                > After about a week, I politely asked one of the elders why they never wrote these things down or knew much about their family history. The answer was quite telling. "Because we are surrounded by our family and our history. There is no need."
                                >
                                > I left behind a small stack of paper including photographs which included family trees, history, and copies of church books. Never since that time did I receive any inquiry or comment on this material.
                                >
                                > Only the photographs were of interest. "Yes, I can see we are related - look at that face."
                                >
                                > Coming back to the US, that kind of bothered me, but I assumed they were too busy working to engage in such idle-time frivolity. Since that time, I've slightly adjusted my perspective. It seems, that regardless what country we live in, history of most sorts is disregarded. The essential question seems to be, "How can this information help me live my life today?" And, for the most part, it does not.
                                >
                                > On both sides of the ocean, I slam into privacy concerns all the time. It seems to fall into two camps. The first is that it's going to get into sinister hands that will use the lineage information against them. The second is that "He must want something. Why is this guy fishing around about me? Does he want to take the family farm?"
                                >
                                > Then comes the inevitable family gathering and some chit chat about family history. It's polite, it's cursory, old stories are told, and it ends.
                                >
                                > I wish I could be as optimistic as Debbie. I don't think anything is changing. While access to records has become light speed, human interest in family history remains in the dark ages.
                                >
                                > YOU are the family historian, like it or not. There is always one person in a generation of a family group who becomes the family historian. People come to me occasionally for information, but usually only to obtain a "sound byte" or a piece of trivia. Nobody asks, "what was life like?" "why did they come?" "How did they work?"
                                >
                                > I take my unofficial role as family historian quite seriously. My work may be flawed, but it's all my family has. I've bundled up all sorts of material and sent it to relatives I believe most likely to hang onto it. My hope and wish is that my little "bundle" will inspire someone someday to pick up the torch and carry it. No need for them to start from scratch - take it to the next level. As each generation departs, we lose so much richness.
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
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                              • Ron
                                ... The families puts up with my eccentric interest in family and culture and take it as a matter of fact now. The Europeans are interested in seeing and
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 5, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "billski" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                  The families puts up with my eccentric interest in family and culture and take it as a matter of fact now. The Europeans are interested in seeing and hearing how the American family is doing, and their eyes spark with interest when their current name is mentioned. Kids seem most interested in the distant cousins their own age.

                                  But it seems everyone is wrapped up in everyday life, putting bread on the table and raising a family. So my work is for myself and my goal is to leave what I gather in a form that will be useful to someone in the next generation who may pick up an interest in it all when they get to that stage in life.

                                  What I like best of all is your quotation:

                                  "Because we are surrounded by our family and our history. There is no need."

                                  Ron
                                • Jeanne Versweyveld
                                  Bill, You have expressed my feelings so to the point. For instance at a family birthday party for my 80 year old uncle a number of years ago, I distributed a
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 6, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Bill,
                                    You have expressed my feelings so to the point. For instance at a family birthday party for my 80 year old uncle a number of years ago, I distributed a simple form for birth, marriage, death dates for each twig on the tree-my cousins, my generation. Everyone knows what I am doing, they love looking at the 3" thick binder with family trees, photos, documents etc. But that is where it ends. Out of the dozen or so sheets I handed out not one was ever returned.
                                    When I asked my mother's 98 year old cousin questions about the old country and why did my grandparents and her parents come here...she simply says it was never discussed. No discussion about their parents or their grandparents. It was just left behind. Traditions were brought over and sustained but no stories about the past. And quite frankly, I was too young to even know what to ask and now they are gone.
                                    You are so right. We are the historians. We put ourselves in that role and regardless of whether or not others appreciate it, and I am sure they do, we should be proud of our accomplishments. For every piece of the puzzle I fit together, I am victorious! There will, hopefully, be someone in the next generation that will fill my shoes and continue. I can only pray for that.

                                    Jeanne Ferris Versweyveld

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • takukuk@aol.com
                                    It seems like that is a story or condition that everyone of us can sympathize with. Kukuk In a message dated 4/6/2010 2:15:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 6, 2010
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                                      It seems like that is a story or condition that everyone of us can
                                      sympathize with. Kukuk


                                      In a message dated 4/6/2010 2:15:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                      fversweyveld@... writes:




                                      Bill,
                                      You have expressed my feelings so to the point. For instance at a family
                                      birthday party for my 80 year old uncle a number of years ago, I distributed
                                      a simple form for birth, marriage, death dates for each twig on the
                                      tree-my cousins, my generation. Everyone knows what I am doing, they love looking
                                      at the 3" thick binder with family trees, photos, documents etc. But that
                                      is where it ends. Out of the dozen or so sheets I handed out not one was
                                      ever returned.
                                      When I asked my mother's 98 year old cousin questions about the old
                                      country and why did my grandparents and her parents come here...she simply says
                                      it was never discussed. No discussion about their parents or their
                                      grandparents. It was just left behind. Traditions were brought over and sustained
                                      but no stories about the past. And quite frankly, I was too young to even
                                      know what to ask and now they are gone.
                                      You are so right. We are the historians. We put ourselves in that role and
                                      regardless of whether or not others appreciate it, and I am sure they do,
                                      we should be proud of our accomplishments. For every piece of the puzzle I
                                      fit together, I am victorious! There will, hopefully, be someone in the
                                      next generation that will fill my shoes and continue. I can only pray for that.

                                      Jeanne Ferris Versweyveld

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Nancy Hayes
                                      The same thing has happened to me when I’ve sent family history forms for relatives to complete; I’ve gotten dirty looks about why I want to dig around in
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 6, 2010
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                                        The same thing has happened to me when I’ve sent family history forms for
                                        relatives to complete; I’ve gotten dirty looks about why I want to dig
                                        around in the past; the past is the past and leave it there (makes me wonder
                                        what they’re hiding!) lol Which only makes me want to find out even more!
                                        I talked to my mom about her family history when I started this hobby pretty
                                        seriously in the 1980s; she said that when she was a child, the rule in her
                                        parent’s house was, ‘children should only speak when they’re spoken to’. No
                                        wonder no one knows or cares about their past family history if all they
                                        ever got was negativity about asking.



                                        When I discovered all of my relatives & ancestors in Italy in 1991, I also
                                        discovered that only one cousin was the family historian for the Italian
                                        side; I’m the historian for the USA family side. My Italian cousin died a
                                        few years ago, and as far as I know, no one in her family or beyond has
                                        taken her place in this hobby. And no one even cares to write from over
                                        there, so I believe the hobby is dead for them. What a pity!



                                        Finding this group has revived my family history interest on my dad’s side
                                        of the family/my maiden name and a few others.



                                        Nancy



                                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Jeanne Versweyveld
                                        Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 2:08 PM
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [S-R] Re:Lack of Interest in family history - YOU are now the
                                        historian!





                                        Bill,
                                        You have expressed my feelings so to the point. For instance at a family
                                        birthday party for my 80 year old uncle a number of years ago, I distributed
                                        a simple form for birth, marriage, death dates for each twig on the tree-my
                                        cousins, my generation. Everyone knows what I am doing, they love looking at
                                        the 3" thick binder with family trees, photos, documents etc. But that is
                                        where it ends. Out of the dozen or so sheets I handed out not one was ever
                                        returned.
                                        When I asked my mother's 98 year old cousin questions about the old country
                                        and why did my grandparents and her parents come here...she simply says it
                                        was never discussed. No discussion about their parents or their
                                        grandparents. It was just left behind. Traditions were brought over and
                                        sustained but no stories about the past. And quite frankly, I was too young
                                        to even know what to ask and now they are gone.
                                        You are so right. We are the historians. We put ourselves in that role and
                                        regardless of whether or not others appreciate it, and I am sure they do, we
                                        should be proud of our accomplishments. For every piece of the puzzle I fit
                                        together, I am victorious! There will, hopefully, be someone in the next
                                        generation that will fill my shoes and continue. I can only pray for that.

                                        Jeanne Ferris Versweyveld

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Bill Tarkulich
                                        I have given very serious thought to who is going to inherit my genealogy work when I die. For starters, all the copy-able material, including trees, photos,
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 6, 2010
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                                          I have given very serious thought to who is going to inherit my genealogy
                                          work when I die.

                                          For starters, all the copy-able material, including trees, photos, contact
                                          lists and letters will be distributed to multiple family lines. Maybe one
                                          will stick.

                                          Second, I am going to specify who is going to get my books, and other
                                          supporting documents. Some of it might go to one of the cultural or
                                          research groups. Some of the books I have are so difficult to obtain,
                                          that I'd hate to see them locked up. I'll be darned if I'm going to see
                                          people look at my books and say "hey, no interest, chuck it."

                                          Bill
                                        • deeellessbee
                                          Bill, I m glad to see I m not the only one, lol! I actually have it in my will as to who will get my genealogy stuff! My kids are both history buffs like
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 6, 2010
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                                            Bill, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one, lol! I actually have it in my will as to who will get my genealogy stuff!

                                            My kids are both history buffs like myself (both are history majors in college) and hopefully that interest in history will spread to their own family history.

                                            As far as others in the family, NO ONE is interested - they don't even particularly like looking at pictures or talking about it at family gatherings. Some will listen for a bit, but then walk away to join other conversations. Some even roll their eyes when/if the discussion rolls round to genealogy.

                                            I have one third-cousin on my mom's side who is very avidly researching - he has gotten very far back in his own lines (hundreds of years!), and he even told me more about my Slovak and Russian side (my dad's side) than I knew! He's so into it that he researched all the little "twigs" as someone else called them, never mind his own main branches. So he knew more about my lines than I did. I've now caught up to him pretty well, in terms of research done, and investigating skills, etc., and we love to talk genealogy with each other, but we are the only two in a very large family who care about this. Very sad.

                                            On the bright side, I have recently found a cousin who IS into genealogy and who realizes the importance of it, and we now have a nice e-mail relationship (thanks to someone on this board, actually!)

                                            Like many of you, I will do this because it is important to me and I find it to be fun, and I will leave whatever I have and hopefully someone will appreciate it at some point in time!

                                            :)
                                            Debbie

                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I have given very serious thought to who is going to inherit my genealogy
                                            > work when I die.
                                            >
                                            > For starters, all the copy-able material, including trees, photos, contact
                                            > lists and letters will be distributed to multiple family lines. Maybe one
                                            > will stick.
                                            >
                                            > Second, I am going to specify who is going to get my books, and other
                                            > supporting documents. Some of it might go to one of the cultural or
                                            > research groups. Some of the books I have are so difficult to obtain,
                                            > that I'd hate to see them locked up. I'll be darned if I'm going to see
                                            > people look at my books and say "hey, no interest, chuck it."
                                            >
                                            > Bill
                                            >
                                          • haluska
                                            I just hope you are not going anywhere soon Bill! Well said.... Dennis ... the ... nights ... of one ... the ... answer was ... history. ... included ... time
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 7, 2010
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                                              I just hope you are not going anywhere soon Bill!

                                              Well said....

                                              Dennis
                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, CasperVeth@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Wow - well said, Bill! You nailed it for the rest of us "historians."
                                              >
                                              > Ray Veth - Middletown, NJ
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > In a message dated 4/5/2010 9:02:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                              > bill.tarkulich@... writes:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I've reformulated this discussion because the title quite a bit off
                                              the
                                              > original topic
                                              > Re: [S-R] SURNAMES-WachtenheiRe: [S-R] Re: [S-R] SUR
                                              > and I'd like to draw attention to the hundreds of readers who may have
                                              > elected to ignore the thread.
                                              >
                                              > What Helene says rings true, I'll add one more story. I stayed in my
                                              > villages of Zboj and Nova Sedlica for two weeks, spending the days and
                                              nights
                                              > meeting and speaking with dozens and dozens of family and "relatives"
                                              of one
                                              > sort or another.
                                              >
                                              > What struck me at first, was that I seemed to know A LOT more about
                                              the
                                              > family than anyone I met.
                                              >
                                              > After about a week, I politely asked one of the elders why they never
                                              > wrote these things down or knew much about their family history. The
                                              answer was
                                              > quite telling. "Because we are surrounded by our family and our
                                              history.
                                              > There is no need."
                                              >
                                              > I left behind a small stack of paper including photographs which
                                              included
                                              > family trees, history, and copies of church books. Never since that
                                              time
                                              > did I receive any inquiry or comment on this material.
                                              >
                                              > Only the photographs were of interest. "Yes, I can see we are related
                                              -
                                              > look at that face."
                                              >
                                              > Coming back to the US, that kind of bothered me, but I assumed they
                                              were
                                              > too busy working to engage in such idle-time frivolity. Since that
                                              time,
                                              > I've slightly adjusted my perspective. It seems, that regardless what
                                              country
                                              > we live in, history of most sorts is disregarded. The essential
                                              question
                                              > seems to be, "How can this information help me live my life today?"
                                              And, for
                                              > the most part, it does not.
                                              >
                                              > On both sides of the ocean, I slam into privacy concerns all the time.
                                              It
                                              > seems to fall into two camps. The first is that it's going to get into
                                              > sinister hands that will use the lineage information against them. The
                                              second
                                              > is that "He must want something. Why is this guy fishing around about
                                              me?
                                              > Does he want to take the family farm?"
                                              >
                                              > Then comes the inevitable family gathering and some chit chat about
                                              family
                                              > history. It's polite, it's cursory, old stories are told, and it ends.
                                              >
                                              > I wish I could be as optimistic as Debbie. I don't think anything is
                                              > changing. While access to records has become light speed, human
                                              interest in
                                              > family history remains in the dark ages.
                                              >
                                              > YOU are the family historian, like it or not. There is always one
                                              person
                                              > in a generation of a family group who becomes the family historian.
                                              People
                                              > come to me occasionally for information, but usually only to obtain a
                                              "sound
                                              > byte" or a piece of trivia. Nobody asks, "what was life like?" "why
                                              did
                                              > they come?" "How did they work?"
                                              >
                                              > I take my unofficial role as family historian quite seriously. My work
                                              may
                                              > be flawed, but it's all my family has. I've bundled up all sorts of
                                              > material and sent it to relatives I believe most likely to hang onto
                                              it. My hope
                                              > and wish is that my little "bundle" will inspire someone someday to
                                              pick up
                                              > the torch and carry it. No need for them to start from scratch - take
                                              it
                                              > to the next level. As each generation departs, we lose so much
                                              richness.
                                              >
                                              > Bill
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
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