- Ahoj John,
I may have a piece to the puzzle and potentially a vested interest in "Szent-István".
NB Hungary's first Christian king was Szent Istvan (St, Stephen).
It is possible that Svaty Stefan (aka Szent Istvan) was a hill-settlement (kopanice) established with seasonal homes of inhabitants of the ‘mother village’, in which they carried out some agricultural activity (gaining new soil, field crops).
The 1715 Urbarial census shows:
Szent-István, Poruba, Szeles-, Szélporuba, Liptó, Veterná Poruba, SK
Adózók neve: Joannes Ratko
Oldalszám: 47, 151, 152,
My GF Jan Antoska ‘visny’ held land in Szent Istvan when he died in 1916 and as no evidence was found to show that he purchased the land, it is assumed to have been inherited by him. Hence the supposition that this was the first settlement of the ‘Antoska’ name in Lipto.
Back in 2002 I physically visited the 'site' - it was no more than a dozen rocks rooted out of the ground by an archealogical dig. Nearest village was Veterna Poruba about 1 mile south. It is for me a cold case but on my genealogy bucket list. Now you turn up.
However, your query relates to Liptovsky Jan (which may have no link to my Svaty Stefan.)
Following my computer crash I salvaged the following 'cut & paste' extracts from our forum - it appears to have bearing on your matter:-
“There is even one person in that noble family line who was born into the Szentivanyi family, a prominent clan from Liptov County that traced its beginnings to a grant of nobility and land from King Andrew II of Hungary by way of an existing document dated 1230” Mark Sabol.
The Szentivanyi were the nobility at Liptovsky Sv. Jan (or just Liptovsky Jan during the Communist era). Their name is Magyar for "Svatojansky", that is "of Sv. Jan." Even though they were Slovak, they used the Magyar version of their name as was customary among many nobles of the time.
I happen to know about them because my father was from Liptovsky Sv. Jan and used to take me there every summer when I was a child (we lived in Bratislava). He stopped taking me there when I was a teenager, though he continued spending his summers there and even died on his way home from there.
Here is a curious tidbit of history for anyone interested: At the time of the Reformation, the Emperror of Austria decreed that "cuius regio eius religio" which means "whose region his religion." In other words, the subjects had to follow the religion of the feudal lord.
The Szentivanyi converted to Lutheranism, and all of their subjects in Liptovsky Sv. Jan were required to follow their lead (never mind that 200 years later one of them joined the Jesuit order).
Later on, the Szentivanyi converted back to Catholicism. But the "cuius regio eius religio" was no longer the rule of the law at that time. Since it had been several generations since their original conversion, their feudal subjects at the time had all been raised Lutheran and chose to remain Lutheran.
Nowadays, you can determine which family was subject (serfs) and which was free in Liptovsky Sv. Jan by their religion. If the family is Catholic, that means they were free and, therefore, not required to become Lutherans centuries ago. If the family is Lutheran, it means their ancestors were not free but were serfs.
This test is not necessarily valid in any other town in Slovakia, but it is in Liptovsky Sv. Jan
Carrottop23 Red Prince
RE “The Szentivanyi were the nobility at Liptovsky Sv. Jan (or just Liptovsky Jan during the Communist era). Their name is Magyar for "Svatojansky", that is "of Sv. Jan." Even though they were Slovak, they used the Magyar version of their name as was customary among many nobles of the time.”
Szentivanyi were not original Slovak, the first known member of this noble family was Bogomerius/Bogumir who was originally Czech or Russian. Hungarian king Bela IV rewarded Vavrinec, who was son of Bogomerius, for his loyal military service and donated him land called Vesueres, which was requested before by Bogomirius. There is not situated Liptovsky Jan, where was land Veseures. Bogomerius was immigrant, king Ladislaus IV used his son as diplomat in Poland and Russia, it think that Bogomerius came from Russia or Czech, because it says his name Bogomerius/Bogumir.
Mick /Kosice, Slovakia/
--- On Fri, 12/2/10, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:
From: John <johnqadam@...>
Subject: [S-R] Szent Ivanyi Nobility
Received: Friday, 12 February, 2010, 1:53 AM
A monastic cloistered nun in Pittsburgh has asked if I could assist in developing a connection in her family tree. She has no access to the outside world except via snail mail. No Internet. Not related to me.
Back in 2001, Mark Sabol et al did a transcription project on Kolackov LDS records as well as the 1869 Hungarian Census. As well, other data has been gathered tying the Szent Ivanyi family to Niedzica, Poland in 1811. Sister Mary Elizabeth Steve has all that data going back to around 1800 in a masterfully done database, primarily by a younger sister.
The question [as I understand it]:
The Szent Ivanyi family had a connection in Kolackov, Slovakia and Niedicza Poland in the years around 1800. Family lore is that Szent Ivanyi branch was "nobility" and that it was from "Liptov" pre-1800 and pre-Niedicza.
I am aware that Liptovsky Jan RC records show the Szent Ivanyi family name and go back as far as 1709. I have not researched those LDS church records.
Is there a resource, probably Hungarian, that can connect Szent Ivanyi nobility of Liptov with Szent Ivanyi of Niedica and Kolackov?
No, I don't read Hungarian.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Alan, many thanks for your input. As well, Mark Sabol has responded on the Delphi site. I will reprint your material for Sister Mary Elizabeth and wait to see if Mick S & Red Prince weigh in on the subject before I mail the material.
I hope that you are having a great summer.