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RE: [S-R] Was taking the mothers last name common in 1800? Richwald & Szinye

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  • John/Cathy Cherry
    Thank you for the warning. I will keep looking to make sure who we are related to. Cathy To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com From: bill.tarkulich@iabsi.com Date:
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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      Thank you for the warning. I will keep looking to make sure who we are related to.



      Cathy





      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      From: bill.tarkulich@...
      Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:32:08 -0500
      Subject: RE: [S-R] Was taking the mothers last name common in 1800? Richwald & Szinye







      > My husbands grandfather was Istvan Karabinyos b-1871 so states his baptism
      > record and his father was Andreas Karabinyos.
      >
      > I have seen the baptism record Andreas Karabinos Kovaly b-1832 and his
      > father was listed as Andreas Karabinos Kovaly.
      >
      > I have just now seen the birth record of the father Andreas Kovaly b 1807
      > his father was Joannis Kovaly and mother was Maria Karabinyos.

      > Strange how the name went back to Karabinyos. Perhaps I should look for a
      > remarriage to a Karabinos.

      You need to be ***absolutely certain*** there were not two Maria K's in
      the same village. It happened so often that people had "nicknames" or
      "alias" to keep them apart. Be VERY VERY careful.

      Lipovce is the present day name for SZINYE

      Bill






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • david1law@aol.com
      Dear Kathy: Bill is right on track. It has been my experience that the use of the compound name -- i.e. the use of an alias -- is to be able to
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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        Dear Kathy:

        Bill is right on track. It has been my experience that the use of the
        compound name -- i.e. the use of an alias -- is to be able to differentiate
        between individuals with the same name in the same village or nearby
        villages, and to distinguish between members of the same family clan. I have found
        that an alias sometimes traces back to a mother maiden's name or a
        paternal grandmother's maiden name. I can speak from personal experience that it
        is exceeding important to be careful in your research because in my own
        experience, a cousin who was doing research linked our family to the wrong
        individual, and it was only after I did a cluster genealogy search (all
        individuals with the same surname) in the parish did I discover the truth. I do
        highly recommend the cluster genealogy approach because it can be helpful
        to not only confirm any prior results, but it also adds a lot of depth to
        the overall family history (i.e. number of children in each family, cousins,
        etc.). It takes more time, but it is definitely worth it, and it may lead
        to some very interesting discoveries.

        Best regards,

        David


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John/Cathy Cherry
        Hi David, Thank you for your imput. I will do a cluster genealogy. I want to make sure that we are connecting to the right person. Cathy To:
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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          Hi David,



          Thank you for your imput. I will do a cluster genealogy. I want to make sure that we are connecting to the right person.



          Cathy



          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          From: david1law@...
          Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:32:20 -0500
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Was taking the mothers last name common in 1800? Richwald & Szinye





          Dear Kathy:

          Bill is right on track. It has been my experience that the use of the
          compound name -- i.e. the use of an alias -- is to be able to differentiate
          between individuals with the same name in the same village or nearby
          villages, and to distinguish between members of the same family clan. I have found
          that an alias sometimes traces back to a mother maiden's name or a
          paternal grandmother's maiden name. I can speak from personal experience that it
          is exceeding important to be careful in your research because in my own
          experience, a cousin who was doing research linked our family to the wrong
          individual, and it was only after I did a cluster genealogy search (all
          individuals with the same surname) in the parish did I discover the truth. I do
          highly recommend the cluster genealogy approach because it can be helpful
          to not only confirm any prior results, but it also adds a lot of depth to
          the overall family history (i.e. number of children in each family, cousins,
          etc.). It takes more time, but it is definitely worth it, and it may lead
          to some very interesting discoveries.

          Best regards,

          David

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elaine
          David, I haven t heard about cluster genealogy. What is the technique, and how is it done? Thanks for sharing this method! Elaine Sent from my iPhone ...
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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            David, I haven't heard about cluster genealogy. What is the technique,
            and how is it done?

            Thanks for sharing this method!

            Elaine

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:32 PM, david1law@... wrote:

            > Dear Kathy:
            >
            > Bill is right on track. It has been my experience that the use of the
            > compound name -- i.e. the use of an alias -- is to be able to
            > differentiate
            > between individuals with the same name in the same village or nearby
            > villages, and to distinguish between members of the same family
            > clan. I have found
            > that an alias sometimes traces back to a mother maiden's name or a
            > paternal grandmother's maiden name. I can speak from personal
            > experience that it
            > is exceeding important to be careful in your research because in my
            > own
            > experience, a cousin who was doing research linked our family to the
            > wrong
            > individual, and it was only after I did a cluster genealogy search
            > (all
            > individuals with the same surname) in the parish did I discover the
            > truth. I do
            > highly recommend the cluster genealogy approach because it can be
            > helpful
            > to not only confirm any prior results, but it also adds a lot of
            > depth to
            > the overall family history (i.e. number of children in each family,
            > cousins,
            > etc.). It takes more time, but it is definitely worth it, and it may
            > lead
            > to some very interesting discoveries.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            > David
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • david1law@aol.com
            Dear Elaine: Cluster genealogy refers to researching the whole family cluster instead of just hop-scotching around the records and looking for one s
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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              Dear Elaine:

              Cluster genealogy refers to researching the whole family cluster instead
              of just hop-scotching around the records and looking for one's ancestors.
              Once you have truly located the village of origin for your ancestors, and
              found some records relating to your ancestors, cluster genealogy takes it
              another step further and researches those records for ALL of the persons with
              the same surname (and all possible spelling variants thereof). It is
              basically a methodical approach to researching the church records, basically
              going over the records page by page, and writing down all of the occurrences
              of the surname in your database, and then only later correlating the
              information. It is definitely more time intensive, but because the research is
              more thorough, there is less likely to be mistakes (usually caused by
              assumptions), and therefore the results are more certain, and it also results in
              learning more about your extended family. I started to research my
              extending BALOGA (BALOG, BALOGH, and other variants thereof) in the SIROKE parish
              in the SARIS highlands (west of PRESOV) when there was confusion as to the
              identity of my great, great, great grandfather. There were two MATHIAS
              BALOGA's who were both married to women named ANNA, and by thoroughly going over
              the records, I was able to find the correct one (with some help also from
              my friend John Adam who looked over some records from the Hungarian census)
              and we were able to eliminate the one ANNA and the other records helped to
              corroborate the information and everything seem to fall right into place.
              In the process, I also learned that my great, great grandfather JAN BALOGA
              had been married again after my great, great grandmother SUSANNA TOMASOV
              died and through his two marriages, he had 17 children (many of whom died at
              a young age, quite common in the 1800's). By studying all of the BALOG
              records in the parish, I was able to get a better picture of the family
              history overall. It does take a lot of time initially, but the information then
              afterwards seems to fall readily into place. For example, I often found
              that the godparents were often the same for my ancestors and their siblings.
              The reason why I really like the cluster genealogy approach is that it
              provides more information overall about the family cluster, and the details
              emerge and often provide corroboration of the information, especially when
              there are multiple branches of the family clan (which often happens when the
              family has lived in the village for hundreds of years). Here are several
              articles about cluster genealogy:

              _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_genealogy_
              (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_genealogy)

              _http://genealogy.about.com/od/basics/a/cluster.htm_
              (http://genealogy.about.com/od/basics/a/cluster.htm)

              _http://www.genealogy.com/heard100302.html_
              (http://www.genealogy.com/heard100302.html)

              I hope that this helps.

              Best regards,

              David


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Tarkulich
              Gee, I never knew what I did had a name! I would argue that sorting through all the records is the ONLY way to a bullet-proof family tree. As David capably
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 25, 2010
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                Gee, I never knew what I did had a name!
                I would argue that sorting through all the records is the ONLY way to
                a bullet-proof family tree. As David capably points out, it uncovers
                documentation errors, fills in the blanks, identifies migration
                patterns, resolves ambiguities. It also leaves you with vastly more
                questions, concerns, conflicts and mysteries than you started.

                But more important than just a tree, it begins to paint the complexion
                of the village, it's residents and your ancestors. It highlights the
                struggles of daily life, including epedemics, childhood
                disease,marriage customs, naming traditions. It paints a story about
                your village. Every village was unique with it's own customs and
                traditions.
                This applies to to the majority of the 2500 villages of Slovakia. It
                does not apply to cities and royal town, which had a vastly different
                purpose and dynamic.
                Bill

                Sent from my iTouch



                On Jan 25, 2010, at 10:43 PM, david1law@... wrote:

                > Dear Elaine:
                >
                > Cluster genealogy refers to researching the whole family cluster
                > instead
                > of just hop-scotching around the records and looking for one's
                > ancestors.
                > Once you have truly located the village of origin for your
                > ancestors, and
                > found some records relating to your ancestors, cluster genealogy
                > takes it
                > another step further and researches those records for ALL of the
                > persons with
                > the same surname (and all possible spelling variants thereof). It is
                > basically a methodical approach to researching the church records,
                > basically
                > going over the records page by page, and writing down all of the
                > occurrences
                > of the surname in your database, and then only later correlating the
                > information. It is definitely more time intensive, but because the
                > research is
                > more thorough, there is less likely to be mistakes (usually caused by
                > assumptions), and therefore the results are more certain, and it
                > also results in
                > learning more about your extended family. I started to research my
                > extending BALOGA (BALOG, BALOGH, and other variants thereof) in the
                > SIROKE parish
                > in the SARIS highlands (west of PRESOV) when there was confusion as
                > to the
                > identity of my great, great, great grandfather. There were two
                > MATHIAS
                > BALOGA's who were both married to women named ANNA, and by
                > thoroughly going over
                > the records, I was able to find the correct one (with some help also
                > from
                > my friend John Adam who looked over some records from the Hungarian
                > census)
                > and we were able to eliminate the one ANNA and the other records
                > helped to
                > corroborate the information and everything seem to fall right into
                > place.
                > In the process, I also learned that my great, great grandfather JAN
                > BALOGA
                > had been married again after my great, great grandmother SUSANNA
                > TOMASOV
                > died and through his two marriages, he had 17 children (many of
                > whom died at
                > a young age, quite common in the 1800's). By studying all of the
                > BALOG
                > records in the parish, I was able to get a better picture of the
                > family
                > history overall. It does take a lot of time initially, but the
                > information then
                > afterwards seems to fall readily into place. For example, I often
                > found
                > that the godparents were often the same for my ancestors and their
                > siblings.
                > The reason why I really like the cluster genealogy approach is that
                > it
                > provides more information overall about the family cluster, and the
                > details
                > emerge and often provide corroboration of the information,
                > especially when
                > there are multiple branches of the family clan (which often happens
                > when the
                > family has lived in the village for hundreds of years). Here are
                > several
                > articles about cluster genealogy:
                >
                > _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_genealogy_
                > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_genealogy)
                >
                > _http://genealogy.about.com/od/basics/a/cluster.htm_
                > (http://genealogy.about.com/od/basics/a/cluster.htm)
                >
                > _http://www.genealogy.com/heard100302.html_
                > (http://www.genealogy.com/heard100302.html)
                >
                > I hope that this helps.
                >
                > Best regards,
                >
                > David
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS
                > -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
                > ! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Alan Antoska
                David, Did your cluster research lead to a narrowing of the root stock or (as was my experience), a broadening of the root persons? cheers A ... From:
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 26, 2010
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                  David,
                  Did your cluster research lead to a narrowing of the root stock or (as was my experience), a broadening of the root persons?
                  cheers
                  A

                  --- On Tue, 26/1/10, david1law@... <david1law@...> wrote:


                  From: david1law@... <david1law@...>
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Was taking the mothers last name common in 1800? Richwald & Szinye
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Tuesday, 26 January, 2010, 2:43 PM


                   



                  Dear Elaine:

                  Cluster genealogy refers to researching the whole family cluster instead
                  of just hop-scotching around the records and looking for one's ancestors.
                  Once you have truly located the village of origin for your ancestors, and
                  found some records relating to your ancestors, cluster genealogy takes it
                  another step further and researches those records for ALL of the persons with
                  the same surname (and all possible spelling variants thereof). It is
                  basically a methodical approach to researching the church records, basically
                  going over the records page by page, and writing down all of the occurrences
                  of the surname in your database, and then only later correlating the
                  information. It is definitely more time intensive, but because the research is
                  more thorough, there is less likely to be mistakes (usually caused by
                  assumptions) , and therefore the results are more certain, and it also results in
                  learning more about your extended family. I started to research my
                  extending BALOGA (BALOG, BALOGH, and other variants thereof) in the SIROKE parish
                  in the SARIS highlands (west of PRESOV) when there was confusion as to the
                  identity of my great, great, great grandfather. There were two MATHIAS
                  BALOGA's who were both married to women named ANNA, and by thoroughly going over
                  the records, I was able to find the correct one (with some help also from
                  my friend John Adam who looked over some records from the Hungarian census)
                  and we were able to eliminate the one ANNA and the other records helped to
                  corroborate the information and everything seem to fall right into place.
                  In the process, I also learned that my great, great grandfather JAN BALOGA
                  had been married again after my great, great grandmother SUSANNA TOMASOV
                  died and through his two marriages, he had 17 children (many of whom died at
                  a young age, quite common in the 1800's). By studying all of the BALOG
                  records in the parish, I was able to get a better picture of the family
                  history overall. It does take a lot of time initially, but the information then
                  afterwards seems to fall readily into place. For example, I often found
                  that the godparents were often the same for my ancestors and their siblings.
                  The reason why I really like the cluster genealogy approach is that it
                  provides more information overall about the family cluster, and the details
                  emerge and often provide corroboration of the information, especially when
                  there are multiple branches of the family clan (which often happens when the
                  family has lived in the village for hundreds of years). Here are several
                  articles about cluster genealogy:

                  _http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cluster_genealog y_
                  (http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cluster_genealog y)

                  _http://genealogy. about.com/ od/basics/ a/cluster. htm_
                  (http://genealogy. about.com/ od/basics/ a/cluster. htm)

                  _http://www.genealog y.com/heard10030 2.html_
                  (http://www.genealog y.com/heard10030 2.html)

                  I hope that this helps.

                  Best regards,

                  David

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









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                • david1law@aol.com
                  Dear A: I m not sure what you mean by root stock but if I understand correctly, as I went farther back in time, the branches of the family tree started to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 26, 2010
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                    Dear A:

                    I"m not sure what you mean by "root stock" but if I understand correctly,
                    as I went farther back in time, the branches of the family tree started to
                    fall into place, so I would say that there was a "narrowing" of the root
                    stock. I hope that this helps.

                    Best regards,

                    David


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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