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Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall

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  • david1law@aol.com
    Dear Judy: With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women s first names are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother s Ellis
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 28, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Judy:

      With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
      are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
      Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I also had
      trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name was
      listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using Steve
      Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
      using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three letters of
      the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name in
      the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town and
      its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
      family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may have been
      born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village. If
      the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to help
      narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you and
      everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!

      Best regards,

      David


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Judy Hogel
      Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted. Julie & David, Thank
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 28, 2009
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        Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.



        Julie & David,

        Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger record. In response...



        ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as she married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with the husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.



        I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization for Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information for her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.



        I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN. I really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village work.



        Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web site, I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...



        Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter, assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.



        Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with Sz (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel with someone else from her village.



        Results...nothing.



        I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?



        Thanks again for your suggestions.



        Judy











        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        From: david1law@...
        Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
        Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall





        Dear Judy:

        With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
        are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
        Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I also had
        trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name was
        listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using Steve
        Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
        using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three letters of
        the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name in
        the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town and
        its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
        family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may have been
        born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village. If
        the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to help
        narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you and
        everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!

        Best regards,

        David

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        _________________________________________________________________
        Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
        http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Mojher
        Judy, I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname, Zsilavi and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy. There are 146 listings for that
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 28, 2009
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          Judy,
          I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname, Zsilavi
          and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
          There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can see #3 on
          the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
          At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled Zilavy. The
          "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When Anna was
          born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use Hungarian
          spellings.
          Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form. There
          were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
          Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava. One
          Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from Malaczka,
          today Malacky.
          Priezvisko ŽILAVÝ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 146×, celkový pocet
          lokalít: 40, najcastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
          MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 39×;
          PETRŽALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 14×;
          STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 10×;
          RUŽINOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 7×;
          SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES – 5×;
          VELKÉ LEVÁRE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 5×;
          PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) – 4×;
          ROHOŽNÍK, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 4×;
          NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 4×;
          STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 4×;


          --------------------------------------------------
          From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
          Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
          To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall

          >
          > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my
          > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
          >
          >
          >
          > Julie & David,
          >
          > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger record.
          > In response...
          >
          >
          >
          > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as she
          > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with the
          > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.
          >
          >
          >
          > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization for
          > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information for
          > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
          >
          >
          >
          > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any
          > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA
          > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her
          > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have
          > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN. I
          > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village work.
          >
          >
          >
          > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web site,
          > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
          >
          >
          >
          > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
          > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter,
          > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
          >
          >
          >
          > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with Sz
          > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways
          > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I
          > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
          > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel with
          > someone else from her village.
          >
          >
          >
          > Results...nothing.
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks again for your suggestions.
          >
          >
          >
          > Judy
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > From: david1law@...
          > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Dear Judy:
          >
          > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
          > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
          > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I also
          > had
          > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name was
          > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using
          > Steve
          > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
          > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three letters
          > of
          > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name in
          > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town and
          > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
          > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may have
          > been
          > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village. If
          > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to
          > help
          > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you and
          > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > David
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
          > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Judy Hogel
          Thank you Michael for the information. Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 28, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you Michael for the information.



            Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one that I think may be her. I'd appreciate any comments on whether or not the more experienced researchers think this is the record for which I have been searching. The handwriting isn't great and the information on the manuscript is not a perfect match with the information that I had, but it seems plausible.



            Information I had previously...

            ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI, born 1888 in Szentistvan, immigrating 1907.



            Information on this manuscript that is a possible match...

            ANNA ZSILAVA (also interpreted as ZAILAVA) born 1888 in Szt. Ivan, arriving aboard the ship Frankfurt on December 25, 1904, going to St. Louis. The manuscript copy is clearer when located using One-Step than when located through Ancestry.com.


            I am certain that the ancestral village is Studienka because I have located a passenger list for JOSEF ZSILAVI, originating from Szentistvankut (Studienka in 1913 and Szentistvan in 1907), arriving in the U.S. 2-1913 and traveling to his brother-in-law, the husband of my ANNA ZSILAVI/ZSILAVY. Through the FHC microfilms I have verified that my ANNA indeed had a brother JOSEF.

            I knew that the current spelling was probably Zilavy, both in the U.S. and Slovakia, based on my contact with a Zilavy here in the U.S. He is from a different Zilavy family from Studienka.



            Judy




            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > From: mgmojher@...
            > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:22:15 -0800
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
            >
            > Judy,
            > I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname, Zsilavi
            > and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
            > There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can see #3 on
            > the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
            > At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled Zilavy. The
            > "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When Anna was
            > born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use Hungarian
            > spellings.
            > Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form. There
            > were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
            > Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava. One
            > Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from Malaczka,
            > today Malacky.
            > Priezvisko �ILAV� sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nach�dzalo 146�, celkov� pocet
            > lokal�t: 40, najcastej�ie v�skyty v lokalit�ch:
            > MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 39�;
            > PETR�ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 14�;
            > STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 10�;
            > RU�INOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 7�;
            > SPI�SK� NOV� VES, okr. SPI�SK� NOV� VES � 5�;
            > VELK� LEV�RE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 5�;
            > PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) � 4�;
            > ROHO�N�K, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 4�;
            > NOV� MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 4�;
            > STAR� MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 4�;
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------
            > From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
            > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
            > To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
            >
            > >
            > > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my
            > > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Julie & David,
            > >
            > > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger record.
            > > In response...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as she
            > > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with the
            > > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization for
            > > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information for
            > > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any
            > > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA
            > > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her
            > > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have
            > > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN. I
            > > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village work.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web site,
            > > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
            > > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter,
            > > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with Sz
            > > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways
            > > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I
            > > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
            > > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel with
            > > someone else from her village.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Results...nothing.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks again for your suggestions.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Judy
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: david1law@...
            > > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
            > > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Dear Judy:
            > >
            > > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
            > > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
            > > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I also
            > > had
            > > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name was
            > > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using
            > > Steve
            > > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
            > > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three letters
            > > of
            > > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name in
            > > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town and
            > > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
            > > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may have
            > > been
            > > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village. If
            > > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to
            > > help
            > > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you and
            > > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
            > >
            > > Best regards,
            > >
            > > David
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _________________________________________________________________
            > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
            > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
            > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            _________________________________________________________________
            Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
            http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Katherine Ayers
            Judy, I m not one of the more experienced researchers, but, for what it s worth, this 1904 Christmas-day passenger also appeared on the Frankfurt s detained
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 29, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Judy,
              I'm not one of the more experienced researchers, but, for what it's
              worth, this 1904 Christmas-day passenger also appeared on the Frankfurt's
              detained passenger list. That's the record that comes up thru Ancestry.
              Trying to read the handwriting is a real challenge, but it appears to say
              that she was discharged to "Hungarian home" on Dec. 31. I don't know if
              there was a home for Hungarian immigrants in NY, or whether it means she was
              deported. At any rate, what a Christmas she had that year!
              Katherine



              -----Original Message-----
              From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Judy Hogel
              Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:17 AM
              To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall


              Thank you Michael for the information.



              Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on
              One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one that I think may be her.
              I'd appreciate any comments on whether or not the more experienced
              researchers think this is the record for which I have been searching. The
              handwriting isn't great and the information on the manuscript is not a
              perfect match with the information that I had, but it seems plausible.



              Information I had previously...

              ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI, born 1888 in Szentistvan, immigrating 1907.



              Information on this manuscript that is a possible match...

              ANNA ZSILAVA (also interpreted as ZAILAVA) born 1888 in Szt. Ivan, arriving
              aboard the ship Frankfurt on December 25, 1904, going to St. Louis. The
              manuscript copy is clearer when located using One-Step than when located
              through Ancestry.com.


              I am certain that the ancestral village is Studienka because I have located
              a passenger list for JOSEF ZSILAVI, originating from Szentistvankut
              (Studienka in 1913 and Szentistvan in 1907), arriving in the U.S. 2-1913 and
              traveling to his brother-in-law, the husband of my ANNA ZSILAVI/ZSILAVY.
              Through the FHC microfilms I have verified that my ANNA indeed had a brother
              JOSEF.

              I knew that the current spelling was probably Zilavy, both in the U.S. and
              Slovakia, based on my contact with a Zilavy here in the U.S. He is from a
              different Zilavy family from Studienka.



              Judy




              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > From: mgmojher@...
              > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:22:15 -0800
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
              >
              > Judy,
              > I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname, Zsilavi

              > and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
              > There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can see #3
              on
              > the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
              > At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled Zilavy.
              The
              > "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When Anna was

              > born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use
              Hungarian
              > spellings.
              > Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form. There
              > were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
              > Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava. One
              > Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from Malaczka,

              > today Malacky.
              > Priezvisko ŽILAVÝ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 146×, celkový
              pocet
              > lokalít: 40, najcastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
              > MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 39×;
              > PETRŽALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 14×;
              > STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 10×;
              > RUŽINOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 7×;
              > SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES - 5×;
              > VELKÉ LEVÁRE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 5×;
              > PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) - 4×;
              > ROHOŽNÍK, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 4×;
              > NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 4×;
              > STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 4×;
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------
              > From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
              > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
              > To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
              >
              > >
              > > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my
              > > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Julie & David,
              > >
              > > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger
              record.
              > > In response...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as
              she
              > > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with the

              > > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization
              for
              > > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information for

              > > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any
              > > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA
              > > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her
              > > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have
              > > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN. I

              > > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village work.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web
              site,
              > > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
              > > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter,
              > > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with
              Sz
              > > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways
              > > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I
              > > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
              > > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel with

              > > someone else from her village.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Results...nothing.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Thanks again for your suggestions.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Judy
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > From: david1law@...
              > > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
              > > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Judy:
              > >
              > > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
              > > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
              > > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I also

              > > had
              > > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name
              was
              > > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using
              > > Steve
              > > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
              > > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three
              letters
              > > of
              > > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name
              in
              > > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town and
              > > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
              > > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may
              have
              > > been
              > > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village.
              If
              > > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to
              > > help
              > > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you and
              > > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
              > >
              > > Best regards,
              > >
              > > David
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > _________________________________________________________________
              > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
              > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
              SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              _________________________________________________________________
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              ------------------------------------

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            • Michael Mojher
              Judy, I looked at the Ship s Manifest for your Anna Zsilava. Arrived from Bremen on board the SS Frankfort Dec 25, 1904. A 16 year old maid, serv.(ant) who
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 29, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Judy,
                I looked at the Ship's Manifest for your Anna Zsilava. Arrived from
                Bremen on board the SS Frankfort Dec 25, 1904. A 16 year old maid,
                serv.(ant) who last resided in St. Istvan, Hungary who is Slovak. She is
                headed for St. Louis, Mo. with $4 to join her uncle, Albert ?ra?ecz at 1242
                3rd Street.
                The lesson learned is to look under every possible spellings. I have
                found Mojher spelled six different ways.
                In your previous information you had the year as 1907. Where did you
                find that year? I have seen when one of my relatives was asked several years
                after their arrival what year they arrived they were off by three years. It
                is more important that this is a document you can rely on. So if everything
                else fits and you can see pieces of your family history linked to the
                information in the manifest I would say you can conclude this is your Anna.
                The one mystery is Uncle Albert's surname. What was Anna's maiden name?
                --------------------------------------------------
                From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
                Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:17 PM
                To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall

                >
                > Thank you Michael for the information.
                >
                >
                >
                > Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on
                > One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one that I think may be her.
                > I'd appreciate any comments on whether or not the more experienced
                > researchers think this is the record for which I have been searching. The
                > handwriting isn't great and the information on the manuscript is not a
                > perfect match with the information that I had, but it seems plausible.
                >
                >
                >
                > Information I had previously...
                >
                > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI, born 1888 in Szentistvan, immigrating 1907.
                >
                >
                >
                > Information on this manuscript that is a possible match...
                >
                > ANNA ZSILAVA (also interpreted as ZAILAVA) born 1888 in Szt. Ivan,
                > arriving aboard the ship Frankfurt on December 25, 1904, going to St.
                > Louis. The manuscript copy is clearer when located using One-Step than
                > when located through Ancestry.com.
                >
                >
                > I am certain that the ancestral village is Studienka because I have
                > located a passenger list for JOSEF ZSILAVI, originating from
                > Szentistvankut (Studienka in 1913 and Szentistvan in 1907), arriving in
                > the U.S. 2-1913 and traveling to his brother-in-law, the husband of my
                > ANNA ZSILAVI/ZSILAVY. Through the FHC microfilms I have verified that my
                > ANNA indeed had a brother JOSEF.
                >
                > I knew that the current spelling was probably Zilavy, both in the U.S. and
                > Slovakia, based on my contact with a Zilavy here in the U.S. He is from a
                > different Zilavy family from Studienka.
                >
                >
                >
                > Judy
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >> From: mgmojher@...
                >> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:22:15 -0800
                >> Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                >>
                >> Judy,
                >> I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname,
                >> Zsilavi
                >> and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
                >> There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can see #3
                >> on
                >> the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
                >> At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled Zilavy.
                >> The
                >> "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When Anna
                >> was
                >> born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use
                >> Hungarian
                >> spellings.
                >> Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form. There
                >> were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
                >> Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava. One
                >> Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from
                >> Malaczka,
                >> today Malacky.
                >> Priezvisko ŽILAVÝ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 146×, celkový
                >> pocet
                >> lokalít: 40, najcastejšie výskyty v lokalitách:
                >> MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 39×;
                >> PETRŽALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 14×;
                >> STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 10×;
                >> RUŽINOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 7×;
                >> SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPIŠSKÁ NOVÁ VES – 5×;
                >> VELKÉ LEVÁRE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 5×;
                >> PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) – 4×;
                >> ROHOŽNÍK, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) – 4×;
                >> NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 4×;
                >> STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA – 4×;
                >>
                >>
                >> --------------------------------------------------
                >> From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
                >> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
                >> To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
                >> Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                >>
                >> >
                >> > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my
                >> > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Julie & David,
                >> >
                >> > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger
                >> > record.
                >> > In response...
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as
                >> > she
                >> > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with
                >> > the
                >> > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization
                >> > for
                >> > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information
                >> > for
                >> > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any
                >> > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA
                >> > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her
                >> > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have
                >> > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN.
                >> > I
                >> > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village
                >> > work.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web
                >> > site,
                >> > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
                >> > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter,
                >> > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with
                >> > Sz
                >> > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways
                >> > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I
                >> > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
                >> > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel
                >> > with
                >> > someone else from her village.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Results...nothing.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Thanks again for your suggestions.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Judy
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >> > From: david1law@...
                >> > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
                >> > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Dear Judy:
                >> >
                >> > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
                >> > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
                >> > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I
                >> > also
                >> > had
                >> > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name
                >> > was
                >> > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using
                >> > Steve
                >> > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
                >> > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three
                >> > letters
                >> > of
                >> > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name
                >> > in
                >> > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town
                >> > and
                >> > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
                >> > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may
                >> > have
                >> > been
                >> > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village.
                >> > If
                >> > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to
                >> > help
                >> > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you
                >> > and
                >> > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
                >> >
                >> > Best regards,
                >> >
                >> > David
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > _________________________________________________________________
                >> > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
                >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ------------------------------------
                >> >
                >> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >> >
                >> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                >> > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                >> > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >>
                >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
                > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Judy Hogel
                Katharine and Michael, Thank you for taking the time to look at my passenger list and reply. Katherine, I also looked at the additional entry for this ANNA on
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 29, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Katharine and Michael,


                  Thank you for taking the time to look at my passenger list and reply.



                  Katherine,

                  I also looked at the additional entry for this ANNA on the Frankfort manifest. That writing is easier to read and her last name definitely reads ZSILAVA, not the ZAILAVA that Ancestry interprets the main manifest page to read. That is closer to what I want.

                  Michael,

                  If this turns out to be my ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI using the surname feminine form, I was wondering why she would use that when the other female ZSILAVYs coming from the same village, or for that matter other immigrating Slovak females, did not have their names recorded with the feminine form. Any thoughts on that?

                  The 1907 immigration year came from her information recorded on both the 1920 and 1930 U.S. censuses. (1920-ANNIE MIKULA listed with husband INOCENT in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania and 1930-ANNA MIKULA listed with husband INOR (misinterpreted) in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania.) I went back to make sure I hadn't made a mistake in reading those numbers, but I think they are definitely 1907, not 1904. But as we all know, recall of dates is subject to error.

                  ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI is ANNA's maiden name. She married after coming to the U.S. I have a copy of the marriage certificate.

                  After enlarging the section on the Frankfort manifest with the uncle's name, I am fairly confident that it reads ALBERT VRABECZ. I am familiar with the family names in Studienka after working with the church microfilms. I have seen the surname spelled as VRABLICZ and VRABLIZ in those records. So far I've completed a list of my Anna's maternal and paternal aunts and uncles, but haven't yet accounted for marriages of the aunts. If I can document a marriage of one of her aunts to an ALBERT VRABLICZ, then I'd be much more certain this is the record for which I have been searching.

                  I hope that I am not reading too much into the Frankfort passenger list information on where she is coming from. I feel pretty sure that that first part of the Hungary location is Szt (abbreviated Szent), but the last part looks like Ivan to me, not Istvan. However, that handwriting is really hard to decipher. If my interpretation of this town is correct, then another point in favor of this being my Anna is that I have searched the Studienka church records for any ANNA ZSILAVY born between 1886-1890 and there is only 1..my Anna, born in 1888.

                  Thanks again for you time and thoughts.

                  Judy

                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: mgmojher@...
                  > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:47:52 -0800
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                  >
                  > Judy,
                  > I looked at the Ship's Manifest for your Anna Zsilava. Arrived from
                  > Bremen on board the SS Frankfort Dec 25, 1904. A 16 year old maid,
                  > serv.(ant) who last resided in St. Istvan, Hungary who is Slovak. She is
                  > headed for St. Louis, Mo. with $4 to join her uncle, Albert ?ra?ecz at 1242
                  > 3rd Street.
                  > The lesson learned is to look under every possible spellings. I have
                  > found Mojher spelled six different ways.
                  > In your previous information you had the year as 1907. Where did you
                  > find that year? I have seen when one of my relatives was asked several years
                  > after their arrival what year they arrived they were off by three years. It
                  > is more important that this is a document you can rely on. So if everything
                  > else fits and you can see pieces of your family history linked to the
                  > information in the manifest I would say you can conclude this is your Anna.
                  > The one mystery is Uncle Albert's surname. What was Anna's maiden name?
                  > --------------------------------------------------
                  > From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
                  > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:17 PM
                  > To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Thank you Michael for the information.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on
                  > > One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one that I think may be her.
                  > > I'd appreciate any comments on whether or not the more experienced
                  > > researchers think this is the record for which I have been searching. The
                  > > handwriting isn't great and the information on the manuscript is not a
                  > > perfect match with the information that I had, but it seems plausible.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Information I had previously...
                  > >
                  > > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI, born 1888 in Szentistvan, immigrating 1907.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Information on this manuscript that is a possible match...
                  > >
                  > > ANNA ZSILAVA (also interpreted as ZAILAVA) born 1888 in Szt. Ivan,
                  > > arriving aboard the ship Frankfurt on December 25, 1904, going to St.
                  > > Louis. The manuscript copy is clearer when located using One-Step than
                  > > when located through Ancestry.com.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I am certain that the ancestral village is Studienka because I have
                  > > located a passenger list for JOSEF ZSILAVI, originating from
                  > > Szentistvankut (Studienka in 1913 and Szentistvan in 1907), arriving in
                  > > the U.S. 2-1913 and traveling to his brother-in-law, the husband of my
                  > > ANNA ZSILAVI/ZSILAVY. Through the FHC microfilms I have verified that my
                  > > ANNA indeed had a brother JOSEF.
                  > >
                  > > I knew that the current spelling was probably Zilavy, both in the U.S. and
                  > > Slovakia, based on my contact with a Zilavy here in the U.S. He is from a
                  > > different Zilavy family from Studienka.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Judy
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> From: mgmojher@...
                  > >> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:22:15 -0800
                  > >> Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                  > >>
                  > >> Judy,
                  > >> I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname,
                  > >> Zsilavi
                  > >> and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
                  > >> There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can see #3
                  > >> on
                  > >> the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
                  > >> At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled Zilavy.
                  > >> The
                  > >> "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When Anna
                  > >> was
                  > >> born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use
                  > >> Hungarian
                  > >> spellings.
                  > >> Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form. There
                  > >> were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
                  > >> Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava. One
                  > >> Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from
                  > >> Malaczka,
                  > >> today Malacky.
                  > >> Priezvisko �ILAV� sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nach�dzalo 146�, celkov�
                  > >> pocet
                  > >> lokal�t: 40, najcastej�ie v�skyty v lokalit�ch:
                  > >> MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 39�;
                  > >> PETR�ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 14�;
                  > >> STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 10�;
                  > >> RU�INOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 7�;
                  > >> SPI�SK� NOV� VES, okr. SPI�SK� NOV� VES � 5�;
                  > >> VELK� LEV�RE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 5�;
                  > >> PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) � 4�;
                  > >> ROHO�N�K, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) � 4�;
                  > >> NOV� MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 4�;
                  > >> STAR� MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA � 4�;
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> --------------------------------------------------
                  > >> From: "Judy Hogel" <hogelj@...>
                  > >> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
                  > >> To: <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >> Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                  > >>
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors in my
                  > >> > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Julie & David,
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger
                  > >> > record.
                  > >> > In response...
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth name as
                  > >> > she
                  > >> > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending with
                  > >> > the
                  > >> > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet married.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for Naturalization
                  > >> > for
                  > >> > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only information
                  > >> > for
                  > >> > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in any
                  > >> > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the MARIA
                  > >> > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to her
                  > >> > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I have
                  > >> > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother MARTIN.
                  > >> > I
                  > >> > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village
                  > >> > work.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step web
                  > >> > site,
                  > >> > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
                  > >> > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first letter,
                  > >> > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning with
                  > >> > Sz
                  > >> > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many ways
                  > >> > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan etc. I
                  > >> > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
                  > >> > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to travel
                  > >> > with
                  > >> > someone else from her village.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Results...nothing.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Thanks again for your suggestions.
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Judy
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> > From: david1law@...
                  > >> > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
                  > >> > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Dear Judy:
                  > >> >
                  > >> > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first names
                  > >> > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's Ellis
                  > >> > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga." I
                  > >> > also
                  > >> > had
                  > >> > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his name
                  > >> > was
                  > >> > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When using
                  > >> > Steve
                  > >> > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would try
                  > >> > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three
                  > >> > letters
                  > >> > of
                  > >> > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN name
                  > >> > in
                  > >> > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the town
                  > >> > and
                  > >> > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other potential
                  > >> > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she may
                  > >> > have
                  > >> > been
                  > >> > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby village.
                  > >> > If
                  > >> > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a time to
                  > >> > help
                  > >> > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish you
                  > >> > and
                  > >> > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
                  > >> >
                  > >> > Best regards,
                  > >> >
                  > >> > David
                  > >> >
                  > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > _________________________________________________________________
                  > >> > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
                  > >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
                  > >> >
                  > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> > ------------------------------------
                  > >> >
                  > >> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >> >
                  > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > >> > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > >> > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >> >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >>
                  > >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >>
                  > >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                  > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
                  > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >




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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • haluska
                  Judy, If you are interested in the detained passenger list. It also includes the date and ship the passengers arrived on and also the port they
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 29, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Judy,

                    If you are interested in the detained passenger list. It also includes
                    the date and ship the passengers arrived on and also the port they
                    boarded,ie:Fiume ,Bremen etc. You then can use this information to
                    "Browse" the the passenger lists for your relation. It is a long process
                    for some ships but I have found a few relations that were not
                    transliterated correctly on the ship list but were on the typed detained
                    lists.

                    Also,there was a mention made about your relation being Naturized. If
                    not Naturalized you can obtain her alien registration records possibly
                    Under the freedom of information act.

                    These can be obtained from the National archives. I just sent for what
                    they may have on My G-Grandfather.

                    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176\
                    543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=e1fdae70ee09c110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchann\
                    el=d21f3711ca5ca110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD
                    <http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f61417\
                    6543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=e1fdae70ee09c110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchan\
                    nel=d21f3711ca5ca110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD>

                    Good Luck.

                    Dennis



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine Ayers" <kayers2@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Judy,
                    > I'm not one of the more experienced researchers, but, for what it's
                    > worth, this 1904 Christmas-day passenger also appeared on the
                    Frankfurt's
                    > detained passenger list. That's the record that comes up thru
                    Ancestry.
                    > Trying to read the handwriting is a real challenge, but it appears to
                    say
                    > that she was discharged to "Hungarian home" on Dec. 31. I don't know
                    if
                    > there was a home for Hungarian immigrants in NY, or whether it means
                    she was
                    > deported. At any rate, what a Christmas she had that year!
                    > Katherine
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of Judy Hogel
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:17 AM
                    > To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you Michael for the information.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Based on your comment about male vs. female forms, I did a search on
                    > One-Step using ZSILAVA and I did come up with one that I think may be
                    her.
                    > I'd appreciate any comments on whether or not the more experienced
                    > researchers think this is the record for which I have been searching.
                    The
                    > handwriting isn't great and the information on the manuscript is not a
                    > perfect match with the information that I had, but it seems plausible.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Information I had previously...
                    >
                    > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI, born 1888 in Szentistvan, immigrating 1907.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Information on this manuscript that is a possible match...
                    >
                    > ANNA ZSILAVA (also interpreted as ZAILAVA) born 1888 in Szt. Ivan,
                    arriving
                    > aboard the ship Frankfurt on December 25, 1904, going to St. Louis.
                    The
                    > manuscript copy is clearer when located using One-Step than when
                    located
                    > through Ancestry.com.
                    >
                    >
                    > I am certain that the ancestral village is Studienka because I have
                    located
                    > a passenger list for JOSEF ZSILAVI, originating from Szentistvankut
                    > (Studienka in 1913 and Szentistvan in 1907), arriving in the U.S.
                    2-1913 and
                    > traveling to his brother-in-law, the husband of my ANNA
                    ZSILAVI/ZSILAVY.
                    > Through the FHC microfilms I have verified that my ANNA indeed had a
                    brother
                    > JOSEF.
                    >
                    > I knew that the current spelling was probably Zilavy, both in the U.S.
                    and
                    > Slovakia, based on my contact with a Zilavy here in the U.S. He is
                    from a
                    > different Zilavy family from Studienka.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Judy
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: mgmojher@...
                    > > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:22:15 -0800
                    > > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                    > >
                    > > Judy,
                    > > I used the 1995 Slovak Census to see what it had for your surname,
                    Zsilavi
                    >
                    > > and Zsilavy, no hits. Then I tried Zilavy.
                    > > There are 146 listings for that spelling in 40 places. As you can
                    see #3
                    > on
                    > > the list is for Studienka with 10 listings.
                    > > At least you know that in modern Slovakia the surname is spelled
                    Zilavy.
                    > The
                    > > "Zs" combination is often indictive of a Hungarian spelling. When
                    Anna was
                    >
                    > > born it was the era of Magyarization and Slovaks were made to use
                    > Hungarian
                    > > spellings.
                    > > Zilavy is the male spelling of the name, Zilava is the female form.
                    There
                    > > were 11 Zilava in Studienka.
                    > > Ellis Island had 5 Zilavy. One Anna, arrived 1921. And 11 Zilava.
                    One
                    > > Christina who arrived in 1907 and was born in 1888. She was from
                    Malaczka,
                    >
                    > > today Malacky.
                    > > Priezvisko ®ILAVÝ sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo
                    146×, celkový
                    > pocet
                    > > lokalít: 40, najcastej¹ie výskyty v lokalitách:
                    > > MALACKY, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 39×;
                    > > PETR®ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 14×;
                    > > STUDIENKA, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 10×;
                    > > RU®INOV (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 7×;
                    > > SPI©SKÁ NOVÁ VES, okr. SPI©SKÁ NOVÁ VES - 5×;
                    > > VELKÉ LEVÁRE, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 5×;
                    > > PEZINOK, okr. BRATISLAVA-VIDIEK (od r. 1996 PEZINOK) - 4×;
                    > > ROHO®NÍK, okr. SENICA (od r. 1996 MALACKY) - 4×;
                    > > NOVÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 4×;
                    > > STARÉ MESTO (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 4×;
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --------------------------------------------------
                    > > From: "Judy Hogel" hogelj@...
                    > > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:14 PM
                    > > To: slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Apologies to all list members for the spelling/grammatical errors
                    in my
                    > > > original post. Somehow what I had typed changed as it was posted.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Julie & David,
                    > > >
                    > > > Thank you for offering suggestions for my search for the passenger
                    > record.
                    > > > In response...
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ANNA ZSILAVY/ZSILAVI would have been traveling under her birth
                    name as
                    > she
                    > > > married after she was in the U.S. I was aware of the -ne ending
                    with the
                    >
                    > > > husband's name, but that doesn't apply since she wasn't yet
                    married.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I have both the Declaration of Intent and Petition for
                    Naturalization
                    > for
                    > > > Anna's family under her husband's name on which the only
                    information for
                    >
                    > > > her is...ANNIE (married last name) born in Hungary.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I have no indication that she ever used any variant of MARIA in
                    any
                    > > > records prior to or following her immigration. Furthermore, the
                    MARIA
                    > > > ZSILAVI on the passenger list that I mentioned was traveling to
                    her
                    > > > brother MARTIN ZSILAVY. My search of the FHC microfilms where I
                    have
                    > > > found my ANNA's pre-immigration family does not show a brother
                    MARTIN. I
                    >
                    > > > really do not think this is her, even though the dates and village
                    work.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Prompted by Dave's suggestions for searching using the One-Step
                    web
                    > site,
                    > > > I tried a few things that hadn't occurred to me before...
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Searched using just the first 3-4 letters of her last name and the
                    > > > appropriate dates. Also searched this way varying the first
                    letter,
                    > > > assuming that the handwriting may have been misinterpreted.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Searched for all 1907 Slovak travelers leaving a village beginning
                    with
                    > Sz
                    > > > (for Szentistvan). After doing this I was surprised by how many
                    ways
                    > > > Szentistvan was entered, i.e. Sz. Istvan, Szt Istvan, Szistvan
                    etc. I
                    > > > even looked at all of the actual ship manifests from anyone from
                    > > > Szentistvan assuming that at 19, a young woman was likely to
                    travel with
                    >
                    > > > someone else from her village.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Results...nothing.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm sure she is there somewhere, but where oh where?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks again for your suggestions.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Judy
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > From: david1law@...
                    > > > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:28:33 -0500
                    > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] passenger list brick wall
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Dear Judy:
                    > > >
                    > > > With regard to the Ellis Island database, sometimes women's first
                    names
                    > > > are not given, if they are married. For example, my grandmother's
                    Ellis
                    > > > Island record lists ANDRASNE BALOGA meaning "Mrs. Andrew Baloga."
                    I also
                    >
                    > > > had
                    > > > trouble finding my grandfather's Ellis Island record because his
                    name
                    > was
                    > > > listed as a variant in spelling that I had not considered. When
                    using
                    > > > Steve
                    > > > Morse's Ellis great search engine, sometimes less is more. I would
                    try
                    > > > using the first three letters of the first name OR the first three
                    > letters
                    > > > of
                    > > > the last name (and various alternative spellings) AND use the TOWN
                    name
                    > in
                    > > > the search with only using the first three letters, etc. of the
                    town and
                    > > > its variants in the search. If you find that there are other
                    potential
                    > > > family members in the process, keep focusing on this area, as she
                    may
                    > have
                    > > > been
                    > > > born in one village and lived in another (most likely) nearby
                    village.
                    > If
                    > > > the search is too wide, you can then add one extra letter at a
                    time to
                    > > > help
                    > > > narrow the results. I hope that this helps a little. I also wish
                    you and
                    > > > everyone else a Happy Healthy and Safe New Year!
                    > > >
                    > > > Best regards,
                    > > >
                    > > > David
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
                    > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    > > >
                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
                    email to
                    > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                    > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
                    > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
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                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                    > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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                    >




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