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Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

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  • Michael Mojher
    MaryLou, As might be expected, the terrain will dictate much about the layout of a town. Then the next factor is the size of the town, the larger the more
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 4, 2009
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      MaryLou,
      As might be expected, the terrain will dictate much about the layout of a town. Then the next factor is the size of the town, the larger the more there are side streets. In most villages the houses were built along the main road. It is not unusual to have the house less than 20 feet from the road. The other factor is how houses were taxed. It appears it was a case of by how wide the lot was. Because the lots are narrow and very long.
      If you download Google Earth you can get a very good over head view of Hanusovce. With a population going on 4000 it is a good sized town by Slovakia standards. Remember there are over 2900 towns and villages in Slovakia. So the average size is about 2400. With the three largest cities accounting for almost a million that lowers the average to under 2000.
      What I see as unusual for Hanusovce is the number of large apartment complexes in the town of its size. I brought up that it may have been "rebuilt" after WWII. Because the railroad was built through it the town probably had a major increase in population then. During WWII the Germans built three concentration camps outside of Hanusovce, so it would have been the transfer point for them. That may have increased the population.


      From: treimer@...
      Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:20 AM
      To: MaryLou
      Cc: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census



      Hi Marylou,

      Your email went only to me.
      ---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:
      > That is interesting--hadn't thought about the problem of kosher food
      > especially since no kitchen is marked on the census form.
      >
      >
      >
      > Does anyone know how these villages were laid out? I was thinking it might
      > be interesting to map out the families. Hanusovce has a webpage so I might
      > try to find a village map.
      >
      >
      >
      > MaryLou
      >
      >
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      >
      >
      > From: treimer@...
      >
      > Date: 12/3/2009 3:32:30 PM
      >
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Cc: MaryLou
      >
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
      > census
      >
      >
      >
      > Marylou,
      >
      >
      >
      > In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager
      > homes would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner
      > courtyard. While there was usually only one kitchen, because of the
      > difficulty of inserting new chimneys, the arrangement otherwise allowed 4 or
      > 5 families to live in the farmhouse, just occupying one or two rooms each.
      > These were usually related, but I guess that if needed, a rent paying Jewish
      > tenant was welcome, too.
      >
      > The only problem would have been the kitchen, as the families kinda
      > shared/had their time slot. Charcoal does not have to be kosher, but if the
      > family had just killed a pig and was enjoying Blutwurst, while the Jewish
      > lady was trying to cook kosher, there could be conflicts. Both sides were
      > probably not extreme in their religious views. I'm not familiar with
      > Henschau/Hannsdorf (Hanusovce), though.
      >
      >
      >
      > Thomas
      >
      >
      >
      > ---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Bill
      >
      > > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
      > with
      >
      > > 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
      > duplex
      >
      > > or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
      >
      > > other breeds category.
      >
      > > I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought
      > we
      >
      > > have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
      >
      > > was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
      >
      > > hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
      >
      > > different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
      >
      > > ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > MaryLou
      >
      > >
      >
      > > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: Bill Tarkulich
      >
      > > Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
      >
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > > Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
      >
      > > census
      >
      > >
      >
      > > MaryLou,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
      >
      > > and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
      >
      > > look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
      >
      > > of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
      >
      > > villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
      >
      > > or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
      >
      > > individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
      >
      > > census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
      >
      > > especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
      >
      > > number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
      >
      > > peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
      >
      > > page was devoted to it.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
      >
      > > seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
      >
      > > Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
      >
      > > Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
      >
      > > Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
      >
      > > > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
      >
      > > > categories
      >
      > > > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially
      > under
      >
      > > > occupation and profession.
      >
      > > > I did find something interesting.
      >
      > > > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
      >
      > > > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house
      > had
      >
      > > > 2
      >
      > > > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
      >
      > > > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
      >
      > > > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
      >
      > > > duplex,
      >
      > > > doesn't it?
      >
      > > > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
      >
      > > > were
      >
      > > > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
      >
      > > > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading
      > the
      >
      > > > handwriting.
      >
      > > > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can
      > ask
      >
      > > > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > MaryLou
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > ------------------------------------
      >
      > >
      >
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      >
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      >
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    • William F Brna
      Joe, My cousin, who lives in Tvrdos~in (Medvedzie) added on to his house when his son married. His son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter live in the addition
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 6, 2009
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        Joe,

        My cousin, who lives in Tvrdos~in (Medvedzie) added on to his house when
        his son married. His son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter live in the
        addition and he, his wife and other son live in the original house. It's
        not entirely the same as having multiple families under one roof, ruled
        by the parents, but the tradition does not seem to have died out
        completely.

        Bill Brna

        On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:36:12 -0500 Joe Armata <armata+@...> writes:

        Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had
        preserved the tradition of extended families in one house
        (vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and
        their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa
        and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to
        share a house. Think of it! Apparently it went out by the late 19th
        century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the
        villagers.

        Joe

        > There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families
        > lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.
        > There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the
        > hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for
        > each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.
        >
        > In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived
        > in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on
        > narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes
        > the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds
        > and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna
        > skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older
        > people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and
        > slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.
        >
        > Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big
        > leap to the new world.
        >
        > helene
        >


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        Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online.
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      • MaryLou
        And the traditions came to the US. When my parents married in 1947, they lived with my Slovak grandparents in a small house, about 900 sq ft; it had 2
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 6, 2009
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          And the traditions came to the US. When my parents married in 1947, they
          lived with my Slovak grandparents in a small house, about 900 sq ft; it had
          2 bedrooms, a bath, a living room, and a kitchen about the size of a closet.
          But the house was on 2 acres so they had a little barn/shed and plenty of
          room for a vegetable garden.
          MaryLou

          -------Original Message-------

          From: William F Brna
          Date: 12/6/2009 7:55:53 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
          census

          Joe,

          My cousin, who lives in Tvrdos~in (Medvedzie) added on to his house when
          his son married. His son, daughter-in-law and granddaughter live in the
          addition and he, his wife and other son live in the original house. It's
          not entirely the same as having multiple families under one roof, ruled
          by the parents, but the tradition does not seem to have died out
          completely.

          Bill Brna

          On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:36:12 -0500 Joe Armata <armata+@...> writes:

          Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had
          preserved the tradition of extended families in one house
          (vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and
          their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa
          and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to
          share a house. Think of it! Apparently it went out by the late 19th
          century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the
          villagers.

          Joe

          > There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families
          > lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.
          > There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the
          > hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for
          > each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.
          >
          > In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived
          > in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on
          > narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes
          > the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds
          > and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna
          > skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older
          > people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and
          > slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.
          >
          > Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big
          > leap to the new world.
          >
          > helene
          >


          ____________________________________________________________
          Hotel
          Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online.
          http://thirdpartyoffers.juno
          com/TGL2141/c?cp=aVuag6rx-OHrJb3dnUijTgAAJ1ABWV6bEHHuwwsDmZxHIOGaAAYAAAAAAAAA
          AAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA=

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