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Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

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  • helene cincebeaux
    There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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      There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.

      In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes  the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.

      Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big leap to the new world.

      helene



      ________________________________
      From: MaryLou <mlvc@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58:23 PM
      Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

       
      Bill
      I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
      2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
      or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
      other breeds category.
      I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
      have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
      was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
      hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
      different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
      ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

      MaryLou

      -------Original Message----- --

      From: Bill Tarkulich
      Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
      census

      MaryLou,

      Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
      and traditions.. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
      look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

      I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
      of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
      villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
      or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
      individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
      census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
      especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
      number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
      peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
      page was devoted to it.

      I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
      seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
      Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
      Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
      Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


      On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
      > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
      > categories
      > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
      > occupation and profession.
      > I did find something interesting.
      > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
      > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
      > 2
      > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
      > sheds/barns/ stalls. What is interesting- -my ancestors are listed as the
      > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
      > duplex,
      > doesn't it?
      > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
      > were
      > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
      > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
      > handwriting.
      > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
      > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
      >
      > MaryLou



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    • Bill Tarkulich
      Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva 1910 Census: 301 Magyar 117 German 751 Slovak ... 497 Roman Catholic 465 Evangelical 255 Jewish It s
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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        Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva

        1910 Census:
        301 Magyar
        117 German
        751 Slovak
        ---
        497 Roman Catholic
        465 Evangelical
        255 Jewish

        It's probably fair to assume that the proportions were similar in 1869.

        Bill
      • Ron
        MaryLou, Yes, in the old days there were duplexes in Slovakia and quadriplexes as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
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          MaryLou,

          Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family. Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

          General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children) and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel.

          The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

          If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World, where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

          Ron

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bill
          > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the> other breeds category.
          >
          > MaryLou
          >
        • MaryLou
          Fascinating info--thanks. Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring the way my ancestors lived. MaryLou ... From: Ron Date:
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
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            Fascinating info--thanks.
            Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring
            the way my ancestors lived.
            MaryLou

            -------Original Message-------

            From: Ron
            Date: 12/5/2009 4:50:40 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
            duplex ho

            MaryLou,

            Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as
            well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
            floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans
            for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite
            simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are
            sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with
            a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three
            chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a
            central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family
            Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each
            unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each
            living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

            General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too
            surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children)
            and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their
            children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one
            store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society
            towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and
            a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being
            modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also
            becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room
            in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms
            for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel


            The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible
            as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would
            think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

            If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World,
            where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

            Ron

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bill
            > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
            with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
            duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in
            the> other breeds category.
            >
            > MaryLou
            >



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          • Joe Armata
            Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had preserved the tradition of extended families in one house (vel korodina), similar to a Balkan
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
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              Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had
              preserved the tradition of extended families in one house
              (vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and
              their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa
              and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to
              share a house. Think of it! Apparently it went out by the late 19th
              century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the
              villagers.

              Joe


              > There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families
              > lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.
              > There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the
              > hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for
              > each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.
              >
              > In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived
              > in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on
              > narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes
              > the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds
              > and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna
              > skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older
              > people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and
              > slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.
              >
              > Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big
              > leap to the new world.
              >
              > helene
              >
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