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Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

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  • Michael Mojher
    MaryLou, http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website. I was hoping that within the Fotogaleria they would have had some pictures of
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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      MaryLou,
      http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.
      I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some pictures of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern" buildings. I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a new Hanusovce built.


      From: MaryLou
      Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census



      Bill
      I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
      2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
      or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
      other breeds category.
      I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
      have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
      was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
      hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
      different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
      ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

      MaryLou

      -------Original Message-------

      From: Bill Tarkulich
      Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
      census

      MaryLou,

      Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
      and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
      look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

      I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
      of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
      villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
      or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
      individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
      census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
      especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
      number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
      peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
      page was devoted to it.

      I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
      seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
      Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
      Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
      Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


      On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
      > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
      > categories
      > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
      > occupation and profession.
      > I did find something interesting.
      > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
      > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
      > 2
      > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
      > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
      > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
      > duplex,
      > doesn't it?
      > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
      > were
      > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
      > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
      > handwriting.
      > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
      > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
      >
      > MaryLou



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    • MaryLou
      As a followup to my own message, the families in this village are on my father s side of the family. MaryLou ... From: MaryLou Date: 12/3/2009 3:18:13 PM To:
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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        As a followup to my own message, the families in this village are on my
        father's side of the family.
        MaryLou

        -------Original Message-------

        From: MaryLou
        Date: 12/3/2009 3:18:13 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
        census

        Bill
        I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
        2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
        or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
        other breeds category.
        I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
        have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
        was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
        hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
        different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
        ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

        MaryLou

        -------Original Message-------

        From: Bill Tarkulich
        Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
        census

        MaryLou,

        Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
        and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
        look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

        I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
        of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
        villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
        or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
        individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
        census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
        especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
        number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
        peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
        page was devoted to it.

        I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
        seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
        Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
        Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
        Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


        On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
        > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
        > categories
        > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
        > occupation and profession.
        > I did find something interesting.
        > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
        > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
        > 2
        > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
        > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
        > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
        > duplex,
        > doesn't it?
        > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
        > were
        > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
        > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
        > handwriting.
        > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
        > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
        >
        > MaryLou



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      • MaryLou
        That is certainly possible, Michael. I have looked at this page--loved that some of the former mayors were/are related to me! LOL I have a couple of pictures
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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          That is certainly possible, Michael. I have looked at this page--loved that
          some of the former mayors were/are related to me! LOL
          I have a couple of pictures that my father took when he visited the village
          in the 1970s--he visited our relatives there and took a few pictures of
          their home. I haven't digitized these yet but when I do I will create an
          album for the group to look at.
          ML

          -------Original Message-------

          From: Michael Mojher
          Date: 12/3/2009 4:02:03 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
          census

          MaryLou,
          http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.
          I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some
          pictures of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern"
          buildings. I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a
          new Hanusovce built.


          From: MaryLou
          Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
          census



          Bill
          I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
          2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
          or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
          other breeds category.
          I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
          have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
          was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
          hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
          different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
          ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

          MaryLou

          -------Original Message-------

          From: Bill Tarkulich
          Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
          census

          MaryLou,

          Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
          and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
          look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

          I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
          of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
          villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
          or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
          individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
          census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
          especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
          number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
          peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
          page was devoted to it.

          I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
          seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
          Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
          Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
          Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


          On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
          > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
          > categories
          > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
          > occupation and profession.
          > I did find something interesting.
          > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
          > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
          > 2
          > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
          > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
          > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
          > duplex,
          > doesn't it?
          > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
          > were
          > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
          > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
          > handwriting.
          > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
          > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
          >
          > MaryLou



          ------------------------------------

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

          To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups
          com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links




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        • helene cincebeaux
          There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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            There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.

            In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes  the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.

            Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big leap to the new world.

            helene



            ________________________________
            From: MaryLou <mlvc@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58:23 PM
            Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

             
            Bill
            I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
            2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
            or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
            other breeds category.
            I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
            have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
            was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
            hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
            different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
            ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

            MaryLou

            -------Original Message----- --

            From: Bill Tarkulich
            Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
            census

            MaryLou,

            Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
            and traditions.. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
            look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

            I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
            of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
            villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
            or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
            individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
            census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
            especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
            number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
            peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
            page was devoted to it.

            I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
            seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
            Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
            Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
            Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


            On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
            > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
            > categories
            > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
            > occupation and profession.
            > I did find something interesting.
            > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
            > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
            > 2
            > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
            > sheds/barns/ stalls. What is interesting- -my ancestors are listed as the
            > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
            > duplex,
            > doesn't it?
            > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
            > were
            > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
            > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
            > handwriting.
            > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
            > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
            >
            > MaryLou



            ------------ --------- --------- ------

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          • Bill Tarkulich
            Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva 1910 Census: 301 Magyar 117 German 751 Slovak ... 497 Roman Catholic 465 Evangelical 255 Jewish It s
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva

              1910 Census:
              301 Magyar
              117 German
              751 Slovak
              ---
              497 Roman Catholic
              465 Evangelical
              255 Jewish

              It's probably fair to assume that the proportions were similar in 1869.

              Bill
            • Ron
              MaryLou, Yes, in the old days there were duplexes in Slovakia and quadriplexes as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                MaryLou,

                Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family. Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

                General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children) and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel.

                The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

                If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World, where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

                Ron

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bill
                > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the> other breeds category.
                >
                > MaryLou
                >
              • MaryLou
                Fascinating info--thanks. Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring the way my ancestors lived. MaryLou ... From: Ron Date:
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Fascinating info--thanks.
                  Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring
                  the way my ancestors lived.
                  MaryLou

                  -------Original Message-------

                  From: Ron
                  Date: 12/5/2009 4:50:40 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                  duplex ho

                  MaryLou,

                  Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as
                  well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
                  floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans
                  for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite
                  simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are
                  sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with
                  a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three
                  chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a
                  central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family
                  Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each
                  unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each
                  living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

                  General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too
                  surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children)
                  and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their
                  children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one
                  store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society
                  towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and
                  a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being
                  modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also
                  becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room
                  in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms
                  for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel


                  The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible
                  as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would
                  think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

                  If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World,
                  where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

                  Ron

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bill
                  > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
                  with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
                  duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in
                  the> other breeds category.
                  >
                  > MaryLou
                  >



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joe Armata
                  Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had preserved the tradition of extended families in one house (vel korodina), similar to a Balkan
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had
                    preserved the tradition of extended families in one house
                    (vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and
                    their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa
                    and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to
                    share a house. Think of it! Apparently it went out by the late 19th
                    century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the
                    villagers.

                    Joe


                    > There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families
                    > lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.
                    > There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the
                    > hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for
                    > each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.
                    >
                    > In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived
                    > in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on
                    > narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes
                    > the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds
                    > and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna
                    > skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older
                    > people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and
                    > slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.
                    >
                    > Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big
                    > leap to the new world.
                    >
                    > helene
                    >
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