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RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

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  • treimer@nycap.rr.com
    Marylou, In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager homes would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner courtyard.
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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      Marylou,

      In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager homes would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner courtyard. While there was usually only one kitchen, because of the difficulty of inserting new chimneys, the arrangement otherwise allowed 4 or 5 families to live in the farmhouse, just occupying one or two rooms each. These were usually related, but I guess that if needed, a rent paying Jewish tenant was welcome, too.
      The only problem would have been the kitchen, as the families kinda shared/had their time slot. Charcoal does not have to be kosher, but if the family had just killed a pig and was enjoying Blutwurst, while the Jewish lady was trying to cook kosher, there could be conflicts. Both sides were probably not extreme in their religious views. I'm not familiar with Henschau/Hannsdorf (Hanusovce), though.

      Thomas

      ---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:
      > Bill
      > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
      > 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
      > or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
      > other breeds category.
      > I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
      > have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
      > was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
      > hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
      > different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
      > ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.
      >
      > MaryLou
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: Bill Tarkulich
      > Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
      > census
      >
      > MaryLou,
      >
      > Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
      > and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
      > look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.
      >
      > I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
      > of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
      > villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
      > or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
      > individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
      > census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
      > especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
      > number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
      > peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
      > page was devoted to it.
      >
      > I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
      > seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
      > Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
      > Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
      > Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)
      >
      >
      > On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
      > > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
      > > categories
      > > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
      > > occupation and profession.
      > > I did find something interesting.
      > > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
      > > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
      > > 2
      > > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
      > > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
      > > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
      > > duplex,
      > > doesn't it?
      > > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
      > > were
      > > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
      > > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
      > > handwriting.
      > > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
      > > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
      > >
      > > MaryLou
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
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      > com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
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    • Bill Tarkulich
      In 1869, there was a population of 1,563,in 168 houses. That s 9 people per house on the average. This was a small town capable of supporting multiple
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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        In 1869, there was a population of 1,563,in 168 houses. That's 9 people
        per house on the average. This was a small town capable of supporting
        multiple churches. Given the house description shown, most people lived
        and slept in one or two rooms, often with the men sleeping in the barn
        with the animals. They probably lived as one nuclear family, not separate
        entities. Your house seems like a 1-floor traditional house. Often the
        "attic" was used to store hay and other preserved/dried foodstuffs, and
        was a rough place to sleep.

        Was it two cows or two oxen?

        It's actually surprising to see people of different denominations in the
        same roof, but anything's possible!

        I can check on the ethnic breakdown of the 1869 census tomorrow, I don't
        have the books here today.

        Bill

        On Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58 pm, MaryLou wrote:
        > Bill
        > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
        > with
        > 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
        > duplex
        > or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
        > other breeds category.
        > I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought
        > we
        > have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
        > was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
        > hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
        > different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
        > ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.
        >
        > MaryLou
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        > From: Bill Tarkulich
        > Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
        > census
        >
        > MaryLou,
        >
        > Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
        > and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
        > look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.
        >
        > I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
        > of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
        > villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
        > or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
        > individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
        > census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
        > especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
        > number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
        > peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
        > page was devoted to it.
        >
        > I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
        > seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
        > Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
        > Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
        > Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)
        >
        >
        > On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
        >> I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
        >> categories
        >> but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially
        >> under
        >> occupation and profession.
        >> I did find something interesting.
        >> My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
        >> ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house
        >> had
        >> 2
        >> closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
        >> sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
        >> first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
        >> duplex,
        >> doesn't it?
        >> I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
        >> were
        >> Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
        >> I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading
        >> the
        >> handwriting.
        >> I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can
        >> ask
        >> some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
        >>
        >> MaryLou
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups
        > com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
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        >
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        >


        --
        Bill Tarkulich
        http://www.iabsi.com
      • Bill Tarkulich
        Thomas has good points. Something to keep in mind, that all census are a snapshot of the moment. You cannot tell if this was a temporary situation (i.e., a
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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          Thomas has good points. Something to keep in mind, that all census are a
          snapshot of the moment. You cannot tell if this was a temporary situation
          (i.e., a house burned down), or a long term arrangement.

          On Thu, December 3, 2009 3:32 pm, treimer@... wrote:
          > Marylou,
          >
          > In the Zipser German villages, like Eisdorf/Zakovce, while the cottager
          > homes would be small, the farm houses were large, enclosing a inner
          > courtyard. While there was usually only one kitchen, because of the
          > difficulty of inserting new chimneys, the arrangement otherwise allowed 4
          > or 5 families to live in the farmhouse, just occupying one or two rooms
          > each. These were usually related, but I guess that if needed, a rent
          > paying Jewish tenant was welcome, too.
          > The only problem would have been the kitchen, as the families kinda
          > shared/had their time slot. Charcoal does not have to be kosher, but if
          > the family had just killed a pig and was enjoying Blutwurst, while the
          > Jewish lady was trying to cook kosher, there could be conflicts. Both
          > sides were probably not extreme in their religious views. I'm not familiar
          > with Henschau/Hannsdorf (Hanusovce), though.
          >
          > Thomas
          >
          > ---- MaryLou <mlvc@...> wrote:
          >> Bill
          >> I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
          >> with
          >> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
          >> duplex
          >> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
          >> other breeds category.
          >> I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often
          >> thought we
          >> have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household
          >> interesting
          >> was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total
          >> bigot--He
          >> hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
          >> different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would
          >> be
          >> ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.
          >>
          >> MaryLou
          >>
          >> -------Original Message-------
          >>
          >> From: Bill Tarkulich
          >> Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
          >> To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >> Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce -
          >> 1869
          >> census
          >>
          >> MaryLou,
          >>
          >> Every village paints a different personality. They have different
          >> customs
          >> and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
          >> look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can
          >> deduce.
          >>
          >> I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor.
          >> Most
          >> of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
          >> villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had
          >> to,
          >> or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
          >> individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
          >> census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
          >> especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
          >> number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
          >> peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
          >> page was devoted to it.
          >>
          >> I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
          >> seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
          >> Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
          >> Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania"
          >> (Slovak
          >> Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)
          >>
          >>
          >> On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
          >> > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
          >> > categories
          >> > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially
          >> under
          >> > occupation and profession.
          >> > I did find something interesting.
          >> > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on
          >> the
          >> > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house
          >> had
          >> > 2
          >> > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
          >> > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as
          >> the
          >> > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
          >> > duplex,
          >> > doesn't it?
          >> > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
          >> > were
          >> > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
          >> > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading
          >> the
          >> > handwriting.
          >> > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can
          >> ask
          >> > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
          >> >
          >> > MaryLou
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >>
          >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups
          >> com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
          >> SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> ---------------------
          >> Text inserted by Panda GP 2010:
          >>
          >> This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited
          >> mail
          >> (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it:
          >> http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1&SPAM=true&path=C:\Users\MaryLou\AppData\
          >> ocal\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202010\AntiSpam
          >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> ---------------------
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >>
          >> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
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          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
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          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Bill Tarkulich
          http://www.iabsi.com
        • Michael Mojher
          MaryLou, http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website. I was hoping that within the Fotogaleria they would have had some pictures of
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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            MaryLou,
            http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.
            I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some pictures of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern" buildings. I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a new Hanusovce built.


            From: MaryLou
            Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census



            Bill
            I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
            2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
            or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
            other breeds category.
            I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
            have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
            was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
            hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
            different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
            ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

            MaryLou

            -------Original Message-------

            From: Bill Tarkulich
            Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
            census

            MaryLou,

            Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
            and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
            look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

            I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
            of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
            villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
            or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
            individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
            census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
            especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
            number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
            peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
            page was devoted to it.

            I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
            seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
            Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
            Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
            Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


            On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
            > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
            > categories
            > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
            > occupation and profession.
            > I did find something interesting.
            > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
            > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
            > 2
            > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
            > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
            > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
            > duplex,
            > doesn't it?
            > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
            > were
            > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
            > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
            > handwriting.
            > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
            > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
            >
            > MaryLou



            ------------------------------------

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          • MaryLou
            As a followup to my own message, the families in this village are on my father s side of the family. MaryLou ... From: MaryLou Date: 12/3/2009 3:18:13 PM To:
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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              As a followup to my own message, the families in this village are on my
              father's side of the family.
              MaryLou

              -------Original Message-------

              From: MaryLou
              Date: 12/3/2009 3:18:13 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
              census

              Bill
              I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
              2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
              or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
              other breeds category.
              I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
              have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
              was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
              hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
              different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
              ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

              MaryLou

              -------Original Message-------

              From: Bill Tarkulich
              Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
              census

              MaryLou,

              Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
              and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
              look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

              I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
              of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
              villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
              or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
              individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
              census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
              especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
              number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
              peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
              page was devoted to it.

              I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
              seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
              Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
              Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
              Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


              On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
              > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
              > categories
              > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
              > occupation and profession.
              > I did find something interesting.
              > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
              > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
              > 2
              > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
              > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
              > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
              > duplex,
              > doesn't it?
              > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
              > were
              > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
              > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
              > handwriting.
              > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
              > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
              >
              > MaryLou



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            • MaryLou
              That is certainly possible, Michael. I have looked at this page--loved that some of the former mayors were/are related to me! LOL I have a couple of pictures
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                That is certainly possible, Michael. I have looked at this page--loved that
                some of the former mayors were/are related to me! LOL
                I have a couple of pictures that my father took when he visited the village
                in the 1970s--he visited our relatives there and took a few pictures of
                their home. I haven't digitized these yet but when I do I will create an
                album for the group to look at.
                ML

                -------Original Message-------

                From: Michael Mojher
                Date: 12/3/2009 4:02:03 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                census

                MaryLou,
                http://www.hanusovcenadtoplou.sk/ is a link to the Hanusovce website.
                I was hoping that within the "Fotogaleria" they would have had some
                pictures of older buildings. I saw none. It seems to have a lot of "modern"
                buildings. I'm wondering if during WWII it may have been badly damaged and a
                new Hanusovce built.


                From: MaryLou
                Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:58 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                census



                Bill
                I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
                2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
                or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
                other breeds category.
                I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
                have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
                was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
                hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
                different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
                ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

                MaryLou

                -------Original Message-------

                From: Bill Tarkulich
                Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                census

                MaryLou,

                Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
                and traditions. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
                look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

                I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
                of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
                villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
                or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
                individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
                census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
                especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
                number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
                peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
                page was devoted to it.

                I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
                seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
                Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
                Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
                Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


                On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
                > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
                > categories
                > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
                > occupation and profession.
                > I did find something interesting.
                > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
                > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
                > 2
                > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
                > sheds/barns/stalls. What is interesting--my ancestors are listed as the
                > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
                > duplex,
                > doesn't it?
                > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
                > were
                > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
                > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
                > handwriting.
                > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
                > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
                >
                > MaryLou



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              • helene cincebeaux
                There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum. There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.

                  In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes  the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.

                  Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big leap to the new world.

                  helene



                  ________________________________
                  From: MaryLou <mlvc@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 2:58:23 PM
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869 census

                   
                  Bill
                  I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with
                  2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex
                  or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the
                  other breeds category.
                  I knew there was a Jewish population in the area and I have often thought we
                  have some Jewish ancestors. One reason I found this household interesting
                  was based on my father's attitudes towards Jews--he was a total bigot--He
                  hated Jews, Italians, Polish, and any other group of people who were
                  different from him. Because of his bigotry, I always thought it would be
                  ironic to show how senseless his hatred was.

                  MaryLou

                  -------Original Message----- --

                  From: Bill Tarkulich
                  Date: 12/3/2009 11:54:09 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                  census

                  MaryLou,

                  Every village paints a different personality. They have different customs
                  and traditions.. It would serve you greatly to go back to the census and
                  look at the rest of the houses and see what kind of trends you can deduce.

                  I can tell you a bit about small villages however. They were poor. Most
                  of them were really poor. "Duplex" was not something found in rural
                  villages 140 years ago. People lived together either because they had to,
                  or because they employed hired help. Often, "hired help" was one or two
                  individuals, not usually an entire family. The first entrant on the
                  census was the property owner. You often found other relatives,
                  especially married-ins living with them. What you don't note is the
                  number and type of animals they kept - this was the true measure of a
                  peasants "wealth" not the house or outbuildings. That's why an entire
                  page was devoted to it.

                  I'm not going to comment too much on the church designations without
                  seeing them, only to "guess" that maybe it was a notation for "Augsburg
                  Confession" later known as Evangelical or Lutheran, today known in
                  Slovakia as "Slovenska evanjelicka cirkev augsburskeho vyznania" (Slovak
                  Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession)


                  On Thu, December 3, 2009 9:07 am, MaryLou wrote:
                  > I have been using your webpage to help in the translation of the
                  > categories
                  > but I am having problems deciphering some of the entries especially under
                  > occupation and profession.
                  > I did find something interesting.
                  > My gg grandparents with 7 children lived in a house with 2 rooms on the
                  > ground floor, 2 sleeping rooms, 2 pantries or storage rooms. The house had
                  > 2
                  > closets but also a shed attached to the house and 2-3 other
                  > sheds/barns/ stalls. What is interesting- -my ancestors are listed as the
                  > first family with a Jewish family as the 2nd. Almost sounds like a
                  > duplex,
                  > doesn't it?
                  > I can't read the religion listed for my ancestors--I know most of them
                  > were
                  > Lutheran--but the abbreviation looks like: AH
                  > I couldn't find a comparable abbreviation so I am probably misreading the
                  > handwriting.
                  > I may scan a few of the pages and upload to the files section so I can ask
                  > some of the rest of you if you can read the info.
                  >
                  > MaryLou



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                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SLOVAK- ROOTS/

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                • Bill Tarkulich
                  Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva 1910 Census: 301 Magyar 117 German 751 Slovak ... 497 Roman Catholic 465 Evangelical 255 Jewish It s
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hanusovce nad Toplou = Hanusfalu = Tapolyhanusfalva

                    1910 Census:
                    301 Magyar
                    117 German
                    751 Slovak
                    ---
                    497 Roman Catholic
                    465 Evangelical
                    255 Jewish

                    It's probably fair to assume that the proportions were similar in 1869.

                    Bill
                  • Ron
                    MaryLou, Yes, in the old days there were duplexes in Slovakia and quadriplexes as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      MaryLou,

                      Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family. Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

                      General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children) and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel.

                      The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

                      If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World, where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

                      Ron

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bill
                      > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in the> other breeds category.
                      >
                      > MaryLou
                      >
                    • MaryLou
                      Fascinating info--thanks. Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring the way my ancestors lived. MaryLou ... From: Ron Date:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Fascinating info--thanks.
                        Yes, I am on the Slovak World list also--I am very interested in exploring
                        the way my ancestors lived.
                        MaryLou

                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: Ron
                        Date: 12/5/2009 4:50:40 AM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] My visit to the Family History Center Hanusovce - 1869
                        duplex ho

                        MaryLou,

                        Yes, in the old days there were 'duplexes' in Slovakia and 'quadriplexes' as
                        well. The word I find in use is Dvojdum for duplex and have a couple of
                        floor plans in two books I have. That is also where I found the floor plans
                        for the four plexes. They have a variety of layouts, but it seems quite
                        simple, on the same principle we often build with in America. The units are
                        sometimes a mirror image of one another. Basically you enter a hallway with
                        a storage room on one side and the living room on the other side. One three
                        chamber unit measures about 4 meters by 11 meters. Another quadriplex has a
                        central hallway and four rooms, each with its own oven. One room per family
                        Another duplex is an almost symmetrical mirror image with entrance to each
                        unit to its own storage room and on into the family (living) room. Each
                        living room is about 7.5 m x 5m. Each storage room is about 3m x 5 m.

                        General commentary following the one chapter on the houses is not too
                        surprising, stating "a small family (a married couple and their children)
                        and a more numerous family or a big family (more married couples with their
                        children)." "The most common form was with only one inhabited room one
                        store room (larder) and one entrance room. ... wealthier groups of society
                        towards the close of feudalism and in capitalism consistsof another room and
                        a kitchen." Not surprisingly theye talk about function of rooms being
                        modified to fit the changing number of occupants - storage rooms also
                        becoming sleeping rooms, with the living room remaining the only heated room
                        in the house. In the largest families there were sometimes individual rooms
                        for each married couple. One floor plan almost resembles and enclosed motel


                        The conclusion seems to be that our ancestors were as adaptable and flexible
                        as we are, and they made do with what they had. Imagine what they would
                        think of a 2000 sf house, much less a 4000 sf house!

                        If you want more specifics, contact me off line or perhaps try Slovak World,
                        where the talk is about anything Slovak and not just genealogical.

                        Ron

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MaryLou" <mlvc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Bill
                        > I was trying to envision the type of cottage or house this would be and
                        with> 2 entirely different families, I wondered if it was something like a
                        duplex> or if the rooms all were joined. Oh, they owned 2 "horned" cows in
                        the> other breeds category.
                        >
                        > MaryLou
                        >



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                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/

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                      • Joe Armata
                        Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had preserved the tradition of extended families in one house (vel korodina), similar to a Balkan
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 5, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Cicmany drew the interest of early ethnographers because it had
                          preserved the tradition of extended families in one house
                          (vel'korodina), similar to a Balkan tradition (zadruga). The parents and
                          their children with their eventual families lived together, with papa
                          and mama ruling the roost. It wasn't uncommon for 30 or 40 people to
                          share a house. Think of it! Apparently it went out by the late 19th
                          century, but traces must have survived in the social thinking of the
                          villagers.

                          Joe


                          > There was a house in Cicmany that was a small house but two families
                          > lived there until the 1950s, now it is part of the village museum.
                          > There was a doorway and a hallway - the stove was at the end of the
                          > hallway for joint use.. Then there was a big room on either side for
                          > each family and a sleeping room for each upstairs.
                          >
                          > In reading the old records its suprising to see how many people lived
                          > in the old small homes. I understand that long ago they slept on
                          > narrow benches in the main room, the parents got the bed, sometimes
                          > the grandparents got one too (these were really narrow looking beds
                          > and all in the same room ) - good example of this is in Stara Lubovna
                          > skansen museum, homes from the early 1900s. Some times the older
                          > people and the children spread a sheepskin atop the tile stove and
                          > slept there. Others slept on the floor near the stove.
                          >
                          > Do we ever realize how lucky we are that our ancestors took that big
                          > leap to the new world.
                          >
                          > helene
                          >
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