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Dariv Death book 1924

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  • genmom4
    I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye. I am not familiar with the
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
      I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.

      I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.

      Can anyone help me?
      There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd appreciate any help reading this.

      I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.

      Thanks, in advance, for your help.

      Barbara
    • Michael Mojher
      Saros megye has a large Ruthenian population. It could be in that language. At least the document headings are in Latin. Do you know the village this record is
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
        Saros megye has a large Ruthenian population. It could be in that language. At least the document headings are in Latin.
        Do you know the village this record is for?


        From: genmom4
        Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:30 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Dariv Death book 1924



        I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.

        I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.

        Can anyone help me?
        There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd appreciate any help reading this.

        I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.

        Thanks, in advance, for your help.

        Barbara





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Tarkulich
        It is written in Cyrillic. It is very likely Church Slavonic. http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/church_slavonic.htm Bill ... From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
          It is written in Cyrillic. It is very likely Church Slavonic.
          http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/church_slavonic.htm



          Bill

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Michael Mojher
          Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:23 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Dariv Death book 1924

          Saros megye has a large Ruthenian population. It could be in that language.
          At least the document headings are in Latin.
          Do you know the village this record is for?


          From: genmom4
          Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:30 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Dariv Death book 1924



          I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled:
          Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.

          I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have
          translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.

          Can anyone help me?
          There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd
          appreciate any help reading this.

          I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.

          Thanks, in advance, for your help.

          Barbara





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • CurtB
          Barbara, It is the local dialect written in Cyrillic characters. It is in the column for notes on cause of death. In this case the word means old age , not
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
            Barbara,
            It is the local dialect written in Cyrillic characters. It is in the column for notes on cause of death. In this case the word means "old age", not surprising considering the person is 83. You will notice the same note written more clearly in the entry just two people above.

            Curt B.

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "genmom4" <geismom@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.
            >
            > I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.
            >
            > Can anyone help me?
            > There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd appreciate any help reading this.
            >
            > I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.
            >
            > Thanks, in advance, for your help.
            >
            > Barbara
            >
          • ljnester
            Hi Barbra, I can not be of any help to you but you may be of help to me. My Grandmother came from Dariv [Ru] Darow [Polish] Sanok District, present day SE
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
              Hi Barbra,

              I can not be of any help to you but you may be of help to me.
              My Grandmother came from
              Dariv [Ru] Darow [Polish]

              Sanok District, present day SE Poland

              If this is the same place I would be interisted in any information you may have and where I can find more.

              Thank you very much, Luke


              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


              Lemko Surnames found in 1787 Austrian Cadastral Records



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "genmom4" <geismom@...> wrote:
              >
              > I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.
              >
              > I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.
              >
              > Can anyone help me?
              > There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd appreciate any help reading this.
              >
              > I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.
              >
              > Thanks, in advance, for your help.
              >
              > Barbara
              >
            • genmom4
              Well, I certainly goofed here. This death record is from Darow, Poland. Relatives from this town married into relatives from Havaj, Slovakia. Darow is just
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
                Well, I certainly goofed here. This death record is from Darow, Poland. Relatives from this town married into relatives from Havaj, Slovakia. Darow is just over the border from Havaj. The religion is Greek Catholic.

                Does that Poland/Slovak border indicate a sharp difference in language?
                I searched and searched on the Cyrillic links, and I just can't see this language there.
                I see Hran for a first name. I am looking for Jon. I see Ivan can be Jon but that document clearly shows an H for the first letter in the name.
                Plus, I could not see a correlation with the month.

                I am very confused by all of this, and it could just possibly be that I have posted this in error. If so, I do apologize.

                Barbara

                :
                >
                > Barbara,
                > It is the local dialect written in Cyrillic characters. It is in the column for notes on cause of death. In this case the word means "old age", not surprising considering the person is 83. You will notice the same note written more clearly in the entry just two people above.
                >
                > Curt B.
                >
                >
              • Ben Sorensen
                Hello there, Cyrillic- or azbuka as it is called in many Slavic languages- is an alphabet.  Therefore, all that you think you know about cursive is out the
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
                  Hello there,
                  Cyrillic- or azbuka as it is called in many Slavic languages- is an alphabet.  Therefore, all that you think you know about cursive is out the window. What looks like an "m" is going to be a "T" and "P" in block is going to be an "R"....
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_alphabet

                  Have fun!!!!
                  Ben


                  ________________________________
                  From: genmom4 <geismom@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 9:54:24 PM
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924

                   
                  Well, I certainly goofed here. This death record is from Darow, Poland. Relatives from this town married into relatives from Havaj, Slovakia. Darow is just over the border from Havaj. The religion is Greek Catholic.

                  Does that Poland/Slovak border indicate a sharp difference in language?
                  I searched and searched on the Cyrillic links, and I just can't see this language there.
                  I see Hran for a first name. I am looking for Jon. I see Ivan can be Jon but that document clearly shows an H for the first letter in the name.
                  Plus, I could not see a correlation with the month.

                  I am very confused by all of this, and it could just possibly be that I have posted this in error. If so, I do apologize.

                  Barbara

                  :
                  >
                  > Barbara,
                  > It is the local dialect written in Cyrillic characters. It is in the column for notes on cause of death. In this case the word means "old age", not surprising considering the person is 83. You will notice the same note written more clearly in the entry just two people above.
                  >
                  > Curt B.
                  >
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joe Armata
                  This record says: March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial) House #28 Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer Catholic Male 83 years old cause of
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 14, 2009
                    This record says:

                    March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                    House #28
                    Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                    Catholic
                    Male
                    83 years old
                    cause of death: old age

                    Joe


                    > Well, I certainly goofed here. This death record is from Darow, Poland.
                    > Relatives from this town married into relatives from Havaj, Slovakia.
                    > Darow is just over the border from Havaj. The religion is Greek Catholic.
                    >
                    > Does that Poland/Slovak border indicate a sharp difference in language?
                    > I searched and searched on the Cyrillic links, and I just can't see this
                    > language there.
                    > I see Hran for a first name. I am looking for Jon. I see Ivan can be Jon
                    > but that document clearly shows an H for the first letter in the name.
                    > Plus, I could not see a correlation with the month.
                    >
                    > I am very confused by all of this, and it could just possibly be that I
                    > have posted this in error. If so, I do apologize.
                    >
                    > Barbara
                    >
                    > :
                    > >
                    > > Barbara,
                    > > It is the local dialect written in Cyrillic characters. It is in the
                    > column for notes on cause of death. In this case the word means "old
                    > age", not surprising considering the person is 83. You will notice the
                    > same note written more clearly in the entry just two people above.
                    > >
                    > > Curt B.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • genmom4
                    Dear Joe, This is wonderful! I am wondering what language you have translated here. Can you please enlighten me? Thanks so much. Barbara
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 15, 2009
                      Dear Joe,
                      This is wonderful!
                      I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                      Can you please enlighten me?
                      Thanks so much.

                      Barbara

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joe Armata <armata+@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This record says:
                      >
                      > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                      > House #28
                      > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                      > Catholic
                      > Male
                      > 83 years old
                      > cause of death: old age
                      >
                      > Joe
                      >
                      >
                    • Armata, Joseph R
                      The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don t know enough to recognize the diference here). Oh, and Dawidjak should probably actually be
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 17, 2009
                        The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).

                        Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.

                        Joe


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                        > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                        > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Joe,
                        > This is wonderful!
                        > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                        > Can you please enlighten me?
                        > Thanks so much.
                        >
                        > Barbara
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                        > ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Joe Armata <armata+@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > This record says:
                        > >
                        > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                        > > House #28
                        > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                        > > Catholic
                        > > Male
                        > > 83 years old
                        > > cause of death: old age
                        > >
                        > > Joe
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • genmom4
                        Dear Joe, I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren t certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 17, 2009
                          Dear Joe,
                          I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.

                          But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                          But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                          A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                          I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                          Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                          And, thanks again, for your help!

                          Barbara

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                          >
                          > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                          >
                          > Joe
                          >
                          >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                          > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                          > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Dear Joe,
                          > > This is wonderful!
                          > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                          > > Can you please enlighten me?
                          > > Thanks so much.
                          > >
                          > > Barbara
                          > >
                          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                          > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > This record says:
                          > > >
                          > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                          > > > House #28
                          > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                          > > > Catholic
                          > > > Male
                          > > > 83 years old
                          > > > cause of death: old age
                          > > >
                          > > > Joe
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • CurtB
                          Barbara, I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 17, 2009
                            Barbara,
                            I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages. Just like the Latin alphabet is used by many different languages. Both English and German use the Latin alphabet, but because you know English, does not necessarily mean you can read German fluently. You have to actually know both languages. Knowing English doesn't mean you know Italian either, though they use the Latin alphabet as well.

                            If you "google" the phrase "Cyrillic handwriting" you will find Joe Armata's fine samples of Cyrillic handwriting and some of its problems. Also Brown University's guide to actually writing the Cyrillic script. Also other good samples.

                            The example you gave for us was really very brief, and Rusyn and Ukrainian are close enough that one cannot always tell the difference. The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages. Though given the time and place this writing was produced I don't hesitate to say it is Rusyn.

                            I spent several years as a child writing Cyrillic script so it seems second nature to me even now.

                            Curt B.





                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "genmom4" <geismom@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Joe,
                            > I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.
                            >
                            > But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                            > But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                            > A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                            > I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                            > Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                            > And, thanks again, for your help!
                            >
                            > Barbara
                            >
                            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                            > >
                            > > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                            > >
                            > > Joe
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                            > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                            > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Dear Joe,
                            > > > This is wonderful!
                            > > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                            > > > Can you please enlighten me?
                            > > > Thanks so much.
                            > > >
                            > > > Barbara
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                            > > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > This record says:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                            > > > > House #28
                            > > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                            > > > > Catholic
                            > > > > Male
                            > > > > 83 years old
                            > > > > cause of death: old age
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Joe
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Ben Sorensen
                            ...     The nature references in Slavic months is not unique to just Ukranian and Rusyn. In fact, there are other languages that use the same basis-
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 17, 2009
                              > The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages
                               
                               
                              The "nature" references in Slavic months is not unique to just Ukranian and Rusyn. In fact, there are other languages that use the same basis- Polish, Lithuanian, Finnish, and Czech all have month names that are derived from natural phenomena rather than the Roman calendar.  In fact, March as "berezen" in Ukranian and "Br~ezen" in Czech both hearken to the same root in Old Slavonic- and both mean "birch."
                              If you click on the languages listed in this page, you will see what I mean:
                              http://www.unilang.org/wiki/index.php/Translations:_natural_months
                              Ben



                              ________________________________
                              From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 8:26:29 PM
                              Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924

                               
                              Barbara,
                              I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages. Just like the Latin alphabet is used by many different languages. Both English and German use the Latin alphabet, but because you know English, does not necessarily mean you can read German fluently. You have to actually know both languages. Knowing English doesn't mean you know Italian either, though they use the Latin alphabet as well.

                              If you "google" the phrase "Cyrillic handwriting" you will find Joe Armata's fine samples of Cyrillic handwriting and some of its problems. Also Brown University's guide to actually writing the Cyrillic script. Also other good samples.

                              The example you gave for us was really very brief, and Rusyn and Ukrainian are close enough that one cannot always tell the difference. The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages. Though given the time and place this writing was produced I don't hesitate to say it is Rusyn.

                              I spent several years as a child writing Cyrillic script so it seems second nature to me even now.

                              Curt B.

                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "genmom4" <geismom@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Joe,
                              > I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.
                              >
                              > But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                              > But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                              > A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                              > I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                              > Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                              > And, thanks again, for your help!
                              >
                              > Barbara
                              >
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                              > >
                              > > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                              > >
                              > > Joe
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                              > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                              > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                              > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Dear Joe,
                              > > > This is wonderful!
                              > > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                              > > > Can you please enlighten me?
                              > > > Thanks so much.
                              > > >
                              > > > Barbara
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                              > > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups .com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > This record says:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                              > > > > House #28
                              > > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                              > > > > Catholic
                              > > > > Male
                              > > > > 83 years old
                              > > > > cause of death: old age
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Joe
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >







                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • genmom4
                              Dear Curt, Thanks for the post. I did realize that Cyrillic was an alphabet not a language, and that was my biggest difficulty in translating the document.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 18, 2009
                                Dear Curt,
                                Thanks for the post. I did realize that Cyrillic was an alphabet not a language, and that was my biggest difficulty in translating the document. Remember, this is my first attempt at analyzing Cyrillic handwriting, and I found it extremely difficult to decipher the occupation because I do no know what letters I am supposed to be looking for, if that makes sense.
                                For instance, when I look at the month, I see bepecan, or last letter r. But, since it was written in cyrillic, I realized that the third and the last letter were symbols. I popped those symbols into a Russian transliterator tool, and came up with a bogus Russian Word.
                                But, when I translated that through a Ukrainian transliterator, I came up with a pretty close match to what would translate as March in Ukrainian.
                                But, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the occupation said and I never would have figured out the cause of death, because I am totally unfamiliar with what I should be looking for regarding the alphabet, especially when it is written in a cursive form. I attempted to look at different languages written in Cyrillic and was having no luck coming up with the necessary symbols, although Russian was offering some real possibilites. Now that I have some general direction of what to look for, I'll have to attempt to figure out what it says across the bottom as practice.
                                What is so wonderful about this group is that there are so many knowledgeable people willing to take the time and help out.
                                You have answered my question regarding the language when you comment that Ukrainian and Rusyn are very close, which is why you would have no difficulty figuring that out. I, however, would never have known that. So, now I know why you and Joe could just look at that document and know what it says.
                                Thanks, again, for your help, and thanks, too, for those of you who offered various links for me to research.
                                You are super!
                                Barbara

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Barbara,
                                > I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages. Just like the Latin alphabet is used by many different languages. Both English and German use the Latin alphabet, but because you know English, does not necessarily mean you can read German fluently. You have to actually know both languages. Knowing English doesn't mean you know Italian either, though they use the Latin alphabet as well.
                                >
                                > If you "google" the phrase "Cyrillic handwriting" you will find Joe Armata's fine samples of Cyrillic handwriting and some of its problems. Also Brown University's guide to actually writing the Cyrillic script. Also other good samples.
                                >
                                > The example you gave for us was really very brief, and Rusyn and Ukrainian are close enough that one cannot always tell the difference. The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages. Though given the time and place this writing was produced I don't hesitate to say it is Rusyn.
                                >
                                > I spent several years as a child writing Cyrillic script so it seems second nature to me even now.
                                >
                                > Curt B.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "genmom4" <geismom@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Dear Joe,
                                > > I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.
                                > >
                                > > But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                                > > But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                                > > A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                                > > I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                                > > Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                                > > And, thanks again, for your help!
                                > >
                                > > Barbara
                                > >
                                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                                > > >
                                > > > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                                > > >
                                > > > Joe
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                > > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                                > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                                > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Dear Joe,
                                > > > > This is wonderful!
                                > > > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                                > > > > Can you please enlighten me?
                                > > > > Thanks so much.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Barbara
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                                > > > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > This record says:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                                > > > > > House #28
                                > > > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                                > > > > > Catholic
                                > > > > > Male
                                > > > > > 83 years old
                                > > > > > cause of death: old age
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Joe
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • CurtB
                                Ben, You are right, of course, that many languages have month names derived from natural phenomena and not the Roman names. I was just pointing out that the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 18, 2009
                                  Ben,
                                  You are right, of course, that many languages have month names derived from natural phenomena and not the Roman names. I was just pointing out that the exact word used in this particular text "berezen" would seem to limit it to Rusyn or Ukrainian. Polish uses a nature word for April - Kwiecien; but for March uses the Roman - marzec.

                                  CB

                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  > The "nature" references in Slavic months is not unique to just Ukranian and Rusyn. In fact, there are other languages that use the same basis- Polish, Lithuanian, Finnish, and Czech all have month names that are derived from natural phenomena rather than the Roman calendar.  In fact, March as "berezen" in Ukranian and "Br~ezen" in Czech both hearken to the same root in Old Slavonic- and both mean "birch."
                                  > If you click on the languages listed in this page, you will see what I mean:
                                  > http://www.unilang.org/wiki/index.php/Translations:_natural_months
                                  > Ben
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 8:26:29 PM
                                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Barbara,
                                  > I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages. Just like the Latin alphabet is used by many different languages. Both English and German use the Latin alphabet, but because you know English, does not necessarily mean you can read German fluently. You have to actually know both languages. Knowing English doesn't mean you know Italian either, though they use the Latin alphabet as well.
                                  >
                                  > If you "google" the phrase "Cyrillic handwriting" you will find Joe Armata's fine samples of Cyrillic handwriting and some of its problems. Also Brown University's guide to actually writing the Cyrillic script. Also other good samples.
                                  >
                                  > The example you gave for us was really very brief, and Rusyn and Ukrainian are close enough that one cannot always tell the difference. The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages. Though given the time and place this writing was produced I don't hesitate to say it is Rusyn.
                                  >
                                  > I spent several years as a child writing Cyrillic script so it seems second nature to me even now.
                                  >
                                  > Curt B.
                                  >
                                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "genmom4" <geismom@ > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Dear Joe,
                                  > > I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.
                                  > >
                                  > > But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                                  > > But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                                  > > A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                                  > > I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                                  > > Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                                  > > And, thanks again, for your help!
                                  > >
                                  > > Barbara
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Joe
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                  > > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                                  > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                                  > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Dear Joe,
                                  > > > > This is wonderful!
                                  > > > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                                  > > > > Can you please enlighten me?
                                  > > > > Thanks so much.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Barbara
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                                  > > > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups .com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > This record says:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                                  > > > > > House #28
                                  > > > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                                  > > > > > Catholic
                                  > > > > > Male
                                  > > > > > 83 years old
                                  > > > > > cause of death: old age
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Joe
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Ben Sorensen
                                  Good point! The fact that it is also in azbuka doesn t help- especially when you aren t expecting the months to NOT be Latin-based. OT, but many a Slovak can
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Nov 18, 2009
                                    Good point! The fact that it is also in azbuka doesn't help- especially when you aren't expecting the months to NOT be Latin-based.
                                    OT, but many a Slovak can tell you stories about going to the Czech Republic in the wrong month to take tests for school, official business, etc.... It was rare- but for those who confused June and July, it wasn't rare enough! (Thier months are very close to the Rusyn/Ukranian...)
                                    Ben




                                    ________________________________
                                    From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:12:33 AM
                                    Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924

                                     
                                    Ben,
                                    You are right, of course, that many languages have month names derived from natural phenomena and not the Roman names. I was just pointing out that the exact word used in this particular text "berezen" would seem to limit it to Rusyn or Ukrainian. Polish uses a nature word for April - Kwiecien; but for March uses the Roman - marzec.

                                    CB

                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@. ..> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    > The "nature" references in Slavic months is not unique to just Ukranian and Rusyn. In fact, there are other languages that use the same basis- Polish, Lithuanian, Finnish, and Czech all have month names that are derived from natural phenomena rather than the Roman calendar.  In fact, March as "berezen" in Ukranian and "Br~ezen" in Czech both hearken to the same root in Old Slavonic- and both mean "birch."
                                    > If you click on the languages listed in this page, you will see what I mean:
                                    > http://www.unilang org/wiki/ index.php/ Translations: _natural_ months
                                    > Ben
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                    > From: CurtB <curt67boc@. ..>
                                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 8:26:29 PM
                                    > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Barbara,
                                    > I think you may stil be confusing Cyrillic as a language. It is an alphabet, not a language. It is used by many different (mostly Slavic) languages. Just like the Latin alphabet is used by many different languages. Both English and German use the Latin alphabet, but because you know English, does not necessarily mean you can read German fluently. You have to actually know both languages. Knowing English doesn't mean you know Italian either, though they use the Latin alphabet as well.
                                    >
                                    > If you "google" the phrase "Cyrillic handwriting" you will find Joe Armata's fine samples of Cyrillic handwriting and some of its problems. Also Brown University's guide to actually writing the Cyrillic script. Also other good samples.
                                    >
                                    > The example you gave for us was really very brief, and Rusyn and Ukrainian are close enough that one cannot always tell the difference. The example you give of the month March is instructive, since it is shared by Ukrainian and Rusyn, but as far as I know, not by the other Slavic languages. Though given the time and place this writing was produced I don't hesitate to say it is Rusyn.
                                    >
                                    > I spent several years as a child writing Cyrillic script so it seems second nature to me even now.
                                    >
                                    > Curt B.
                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "genmom4" <geismom@ > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear Joe,
                                    > > I am curious as to how you can translate the Cyrillic when you aren't certain of the language? I had a heck of a time trying to figure out the letters that I was reading. I was excited to have figured out March, but the last three letters did not look like the ones on the document.
                                    > >
                                    > > But, the bulk of the word was exact, so I figured that it had to be March. When you verified it, that really made my day.
                                    > > But, I would not have been able to figure out the rest of it had you not offered your assistance. Do you have a resource that uses this kind of lower case Cyrillic script?
                                    > > A list of Cyrillic translations in different languages to look at?
                                    > > I attempted to look through the sites that Bill sent to me, but I just had so much difficulty attempting to figure out what letter was what to put into the translation mechanism.
                                    > > Any advice for future translating would be very much appreciated.
                                    > > And, thanks again, for your help!
                                    > >
                                    > > Barbara
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com, "Armata, Joseph R" <armata+@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The language is an East Slavic one, Ukrainian or Rusyn (I don't know enough to recognize the diference here).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Oh, and "Dawidjak" should probably actually be Davidjak, or Davidiak, my typo.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Joe
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SLOVAK-
                                    > > > > ROOTS@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of genmom4
                                    > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
                                    > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Dariv Death book 1924
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Dear Joe,
                                    > > > > This is wonderful!
                                    > > > > I am wondering what language you have translated here.
                                    > > > > Can you please enlighten me?
                                    > > > > Thanks so much.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Barbara
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:SLOVAK-
                                    > > > > ROOTS%40yahoogroups .com> , Joe Armata <armata+@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > This record says:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > March 5/7, 1924 (I assume those are dates of death/burial)
                                    > > > > > House #28
                                    > > > > > Ivan Dawidjak, widower, local farmer
                                    > > > > > Catholic
                                    > > > > > Male
                                    > > > > > 83 years old
                                    > > > > > cause of death: old age
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Joe
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • ljnester
                                    Hi Barbra, Can you help me find family information in Dariv records? Thanks, Luke
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Nov 29, 2009
                                      Hi Barbra,

                                      Can you help me find family information in Dariv records?

                                      Thanks, Luke

                                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "ljnester" <ljnester@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Barbra,
                                      >
                                      > I can not be of any help to you but you may be of help to me.
                                      > My Grandmother came from
                                      > Dariv [Ru] Darow [Polish]
                                      >
                                      > Sanok District, present day SE Poland
                                      >
                                      > If this is the same place I would be interisted in any information you may have and where I can find more.
                                      >
                                      > Thank you very much, Luke
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Lemko Surnames found in 1787 Austrian Cadastral Records
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "genmom4" <geismom@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I would appreciate some assistance regarding the file entitled: Darivdeathbook 1924. The area would be in norther Saros megye.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am not familiar with the language that is written in this document. I have translated Hungarian and Latin in the past, and some German.
                                      > >
                                      > > Can anyone help me?
                                      > > There is a highlighted section that I am particularly interested in, but I'd appreciate any help reading this.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am most interested in the language that I am supposed to be deciphering.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks, in advance, for your help.
                                      > >
                                      > > Barbara
                                      > >
                                      >
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