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Re: SAMUDOVCE RE: [S-R] Really bad handwriting.

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  • lepus_rex
    Bill, I haven t encountered too many Helena/Ilona Irchas so far, no, at least nowhere near as many Annas and Marias. The thing about Galya is that it seems
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 13 7:15 PM

      I haven't encountered too many Helena/Ilona Irchas so far, no, at least nowhere near as many Annas and Marias.

      The thing about "Galya" is that it seems mainly to be a diminutive of "Galina", which is supposed to be a Russian feminine form of the Greek "Galenos", rather than(the also Greek) "Helene". But there seems to be enough popular confusion about the origin of "Galina" (many sources claiming it's a variant of "Helene") that it's certainly a possibility.

      And, wouldn't you know it, there *is* a column for the priest's name, which I somehow missed? (*lamely blames GK newbie confusion*) It matches up with Mr. Èisárik's list of priests from Šamudovce: Michael Prešèak, there from 1825 to 1846. Thanks for the tip! Perhaps, as this was near the end of his time there (1844), he was suffering from some age-related disability, and required help to record events.

      The spelling of the name, which still exists in Lastomír and Šamudovce today, varies over time, seemingly at the whim of the writer: Jircha, Jirha, Irha, Ircha, etc. I've actually encountered two spelling variants for a single individual within the same year (an infant baptised "Irha Mihály," was buried as "Ircha Mihály" 8 mos. later).

      From what I can tell, the surname "Ircha" seems to be from a word meaning "deerskin", or some other kind of hide, apparently borrowed from Latin via German. In Ukrainian and Polish, it's "ircha" (Ukr. ipxa), meaning "chamois leather" or "leather" in both languages. And Hungarian has "irha", meaning "hide", which is also one of the spellings of the name that I've encountered during periods that the records were kept primarily in Hungarian. I imagine there's an equivalent in the local dialect, though I haven't encountered it, yet.


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
      > Will,
      > I am going to stand by my hypothesis that GULYA could be a language variant,
      > as opposed to a nickname or "alias." Alias names were often used when many
      > people of the same first/last name combination lived in the same village.
      > Is that the case here? We are pretty far east. Adding to the argument is
      > the fact this is a singular entry. Most priests were educated in Lvov (now
      > Ukraine).
      > If you see Cyrillic characters, and this was a Greek Catholic church, the
      > official church language was Church Slavonic, which for the most part was
      > only understood by the priest.
      > Is there a column at near the end which lists the priests name? There often
      > is. I would get it and then you should check the book that Juraj Cisarik
      > has listing all the priests, to see if you can figure out what is going on,
      > or at least build a hypothesis. Sometime a priest would die/leave and not
      > be replaced for a while.
      > http://www.cisarik.com/MINISCHEMATIZMUS-abc.htm
      > http://www.cisarik.com/village-0211.html
      > I think it's interesting that he rendered the surname as IRCHA. I suggest
      > you write to Juraj and inquire.
      > Regards,
      > Bill
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of lepus_rex
      > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:12 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Really bad handwriting. / Help? :D
      > Ah, thank you three (Bill, Tom, and Janet) for the reply. I'll try to pack
      > all my replies into one message:
      > Almost all of the names on the rest of the page are the Hungarian variants,
      > with Hungarian spellings, with the exception of a few women's names: A
      > "Suzanna," a "Zuzanna", a "Helena" or two, etc. Actually, one of the Helenas
      > is a "Sirohman Helena", a witness at a wedding later that year, along with a
      > "Tomasics György", a name that also turned up at "my" Helena's (probable)
      > wedding.
      > Helena Jircha is known elsewhere in the GK ©amudovce records (some of her
      > childrens' baptisms) as Ilona, but I hadn't heard of "Galya" or "Ilya" as
      > nicknames for any of these, so once more, thanks. It *is* kind of odd to see
      > a nickname... Perhaps the priest was an informal sort, or maybe very
      > familiar with her family?
      > And this was the only example of that handwriting that I could find. I'm not
      > sure what was going on in ©amudovce in the 1840s, but every other entry
      > seems to have been written by a different priest. The fellow who wrote this
      > bit was by *far* the sloppiest.
      > And, no, unfortunately, none of the parents' names were recorded there at
      > that time. The ©amudovce records are kind of crummy, info-wise, until you
      > get to the later stuff. Which is in a cursive Cyrillic, and a whole new
      > headache. (I mean that in a *good* way, of course). :)
      > ---Will
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